Questions about the embassy (and other diplo-things).

[anandus]

What do we know about embassies and pre-requisites for diplomatic stuff?

For what do you need to have an embassy? And for what do you need to have a declaration of friendship?

I know that you need to have a DoF for Research agreements.

Does the embassy have a tech-requirement?
And luxury trading or open borders, do they have pre-requisites, like the embassy?
I'm especially curious about luxury trading, if that has a prerequisite like the embassy or DoF.

And I assume one can build an embassy with anyone you're not at war with? Or do you need to be friends first?

I know we don't know all of it, of course, but maybe some guys here know some more than I do.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

All I know is that you need embassies for Defensive Pacts and Open Borders. They also allow you to view the other civ's capital.

Presumably you get embassies in the Medieval Era or earlier because that's when you get Defensive Pacts and now Open Borders too.

 

[apocalypse105]

All I know is that you need embassies for Defensive Pacts and Open Borders. They also allow you to view the other civ's capital.

Presumably you get embassies in the Medieval Era or earlier because that's when you get Defensive Pacts and now Open Borders too.

Yeah so its proparly like open borders if a AI hates you they don't want open borders or you have to pay for it

 

[Bechhold]

Embassies in the Medieval Era, I would be stunned if it was that late as the Romans exchanged Ambassadors and so forth.

Besides that is a good 100 maybe + turns before open borders...?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Embassies in the Medieval Era, I would be stunned if it was that late as the Romans exchanged Ambassadors and so forth.

Besides that is a good 100 maybe + turns before open borders...?

Quite possible. I gave Medieval Era as the latest possible time, not the most likely.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

So.. what comes with writing? Seeing as The Espionage system mirrors a lot like Civ 3, I'm somehow assuming that in Civ 5, Embassies will come with Writing, just like in Civ 4.

 

[vcutag]

What TheKingOfBigOz said. This seems to be taken straight from Civ III and tweaked a bit; in Civ III you researched writing, established an embassy, and only then could you talk to a civ without having one of their units in your line of sight. Prior to establishing an embassy, you had to establish communications by right-clicking on one of the other civ's units and talking to them that way. Other things like open borders, mutual-defense treaties, etc. came with later techs.

EDIT: They even took the "see what the other civ's capital is up to" thing from Civ III, it looks like. You got a one-shot view of the other civ's capital for free, without having to spend gold to do espionage.

 

[fuzzatron717]

I personally can't wait for this embassy even though its just a early diplo building can't wait. Wait can you setup embassies in city-states?

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I personally can't wait for this embassy even though its just a early diplo building can't wait. Wait can you setup embassies in city-states?

Nope, no reason to, they're not a threat, and the moment you meet them you already see their location either way.

 

[Thorn]

It would be cool if you could close an embassy.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Seeing as it is a trade, I'm assuming it will expire like other things.

However, I do miss the ability to cancel deals, why should I have ot wai 30 turns to attack somebody by worrying if I'm going to get a gigantic Diplo hit for breaking my DoF.

 

[vcutag]

Seeing as it is a trade, I'm assuming it will expire like other things.

However, I do miss the ability to cancel deals, why should I have ot wai 30 turns to attack somebody by worrying if I'm going to get a gigantic Diplo hit for breaking my DoF.

Are we sure it's an agreement? In Civ III, it was something you purchased and had throughout the game, unless you were at war with that player. IIRC, it was automatically re-established when peace was declared.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

We know the existence of Embassies from Diplomatic Trading Window. first noticed in PAX Demo where one of the things you cuold trade were "Embassies"

Spoiler :

From Gamespy :

While hard to see on the left side, the right sight cleary has an item named "Accept Embassy"

 

[fuzzatron717]

Well thats answers my question, I think city-states should be able to recieve the embassy so like it gives you 5 influence with the city-state as long as you're friends or allies with that city-state. It will make influence easier since money has gone down.

 

[vcutag]

We know the existence of Embassies from Diplomatic Trading Window. first noticed in PAX Demo where one of the things you cuold trade were "Embassies"

Spoiler :

From Gamespy :

While hard to see on the left side, the right sight cleary has an item named "Accept Embassy"

Ah, okay. I have bad eyesight so I missed that. Interesting that you have to allow an embassy from the other player. I wonder if you can revoke it, or if you have it for a set number of turns, etc.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Well thats answers my question, I think city-states should be able to recieve the embassy so like it gives you 5 influence with the city-state as long as you're friends or allies with that city-state. It will make influence easier since money has gone down.

You have quests instead. You gain influence by completing quests for them. Furhtermore, you have espionage and Election Rigs and Coups to gain influence via Espionage.

Ah, okay. I have bad eyesight so I missed that. Interesting that you have to allow an embassy from the other player. I wonder if you can revoke it, or if you have it for a set number of turns, etc.

Seeing as NOTHING in Civ 5 can be revoked, I'm putting my money on set turn of numbers.
However, thankfully, in God and Kings, deals will no longer simply cancel, but instead the AI will ask you the same turn as it would expire if you wanna renew it This is actually shown in the screenshot above.

 

[Lyoncet]

Seeing as it is a trade, I'm assuming it will expire like other things.

However, I do miss the ability to cancel deals, why should I have ot wai 30 turns to attack somebody by worrying if I'm going to get a gigantic Diplo hit for breaking my DoF.

Wait, what? You're asking why you should have to wait 30 turns to attack someone you just committed to cooperate with because you're afraid that will make people not want to cooperate with you? OK., let's see.

You want to be able to break a DoF that you entered into willingly (to make relations with the target civ better) so that you can backstab them without other people looking at you poorly? How is breaking the DoF early and then declaring war any different than just declaring war? That's something you should be penalized for, for a number of reasons. It's a huge betrayal, it means nobody should trust you or risk the same treatment, and, most importantly, DoFs are powerful diplomatic tools that have serious reward and therefore need to have a risk to them. You're completely capable of not making one with a civ you'll want to target within the next 30 turns. If you decide you actually do want to attack them in that window, well, you screwed up and if you absolutely can't wait those remaining few turns (I mean, it took you more than a couple turns to change your mind, right?), you should be punished for it.

I simply see no compelling reason to let the player cancel DoFs so they can betray their friends without incurring a penalty. Yes, sometimes you make a DoF you regret because the other party starts being a jerk, but that's fine because it forces you to be selective with your DoFs, which is a necessary balancing factor since a they're such a powerful tool when used well. You can easily put yourself in a position where you're safe from all the major military threats on your map if you use them well. That needs a potential downside. That downside is that you need to be smart about them. As for cancelling to avoid a diplo hit for declaring on someone you just committed to cooperating with... the CiV diplo system is already atrocious enough without that.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I wonder if they'll have a "allows embassies with all players" wonder - like Marco Polo back in Civ 2. If they did, could that be the Alhambra?

 

[nsotos]

I am still a bit confused on the construction of an embassy. Is it a traditional building that you construct in the city menu or a diplomatic option that you would establish as you would a treaty?

 

[anandus]

It seems to be a diplomatic option