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Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Turner, Apr 23, 2009.

  1. Scandal

    Scandal Chieftain

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    Does city tile recieve any bonuses from terrain type, resources or rivers?

    Just reinstalled the game after many years long break and I recall I've been avoiding to build cities on resources and also on grass with shield. Can you clarify please?
     
  2. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Emperor

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    Yes, except food. You always get 2 food from the city center, except if your are agri where it is mostly 3.

    And also keep in mind that towns (size 1-6) on 'shieldless' tiles receive a shield for free, whereas that is not the case for towns on terrain types which do yield shields.

    And if I am not mistaken you can not receive more than 9 food, shields or commerce from a given tile.
     
  3. FrozenSphere

    FrozenSphere Chieftain

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    And also all resources are still there if you build a town on top of them. So you can set down a town on top of ivory or horses, and that city will immediately have access to that resource, as will the rest of your kingdom, once you connect that town with roads.

    Right, guys?
     
  4. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Yes, FS, that's right. That's actually a pretty good way to protect a resource.
     
  5. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    I would not advise making a habit of building towns on top of iron or saltpeter. Luxuries come as fine, but in some games you might want to disconnect your iron/saltpeter for upgrading, which you can't really do with a town on top of one of those resources. If worried about defending it, just put more units there. Do fortress/barricades get pillaged before roads? I'm not sure, but as I recall, they get pillaged after roads, so, if you really have a concern with defending that resource spot, I'd just put a fortress/barricade there.
     
  6. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Emperor

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    I believe barricades are first in the pillage order, and the fortresses are last. It is kind of strange.
     
  7. FrozenSphere

    FrozenSphere Chieftain

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    I'd like to revisit my question from earlier really quickly:

    But, in the opposite case, if MY troops are inside another civ's borders, and the civ demands I move them, and I say "take your empty threats elsewhere," or whatever, then the civ will also declare war on me. Right?

    So what I'm getting is that in ANY situation with troops violating borders, the AI will always be the one declaring war? Either if I am intruding, and I refuse to move my troops, or if the AI refuses to move its troops from my territory, either way it's the AI making the war declaration (and thus getting the reputation hit), not I? Isn't that kind of nonsensical?
     
  8. scratchthepitch

    scratchthepitch King

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    From what I've seen, if your people are inside an AI's territory, the AI does not declare war on you. The first turn you are inside their borders, they usually ask you to remove them. You can then declare war or tell them you will move them. You don't have to move the troops, but if they are still within the AI borders after the second turn goes by, the AI pops up again. This time you can declare war, or the game moves your people back to your own territory.

    Depending on what you entered their territory with, they may skip the first step and go right to the second one, and if you choose not to declare war on that first turn, your people get the boot back home. Other times they ask you the first time, but don't ask a second time and let you wander about for a while. It depends on what kind of units you have in their land and how many. The more units, the more warlike they are, the quicker you get the option of war or boot. The AI's attitude towards you is probably also a factor. It can be a real pain when you have a divided territory and have to cross another civ's territory to get from one part of your territory to another. If you're trying to transfer a lot of troops, they keep getting chucked back to the tiles they just departed from.
     
  9. creamcheese

    creamcheese Spreading since 1990

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    No, in that case you declare war. You also break your rep I think if you have troops in their territory when you declare. Not a good thing.
     
  10. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Oh, I know. To the best of my recollection, though, I have never intentionally disconnected a resource.
     
  11. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    In addition to what creamcheese wrote, you can have troops inside the AIs territory and make them declare on you via various means (e. g. failed spy mission, re-signing of peace treaty tied to some deal the AI will break).
     
  12. Sparthage

    Sparthage Fighting Tyranny

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    I can confirm this.

    Barricades/Railroads are first, then Roads/Irrigation/Mines/Fortresses.
     
  13. darski

    darski Regent in Training

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    Ok, knowing that the AI just doesn't get around to harbours too quickly I sent a settler over and built a city /w harbour that I gifted to Joanie and set up lux trade. Trouble is that Joanie is a deadbeat and lost her harbour - Did I get a rep hit? :shifty:
     
  14. scratchthepitch

    scratchthepitch King

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    If an AI civ lost the ability to trade with you due to their failure to maintain the necessary infrastructure, I doubt you would take a rep hit when a trade deal collapsed because of that. It's their fault the deal got canceled.

    But....cha never know. The Firaxis moves in mysterious ways. ;)

    If I understood correctly and that is what you are asking about, darski?
     
  15. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    If she supplies you with the luxury, as I think you indicated, then no. The tribe exporting the luxury always comes as responsible for maintaining that deal. You can get free techs, lump sums, gpt, workers when available, and even get an AI to declare on you, ad infinitum without ever taking a reputation hit with this in mind... though almost surely it comes as easier to cut roads instead of someone losing a harbor.

    For examples, see post 32 here on, or some of the Sid HoF games by ignas, Gyaathar, as well as my spaceship, and conquest Sid HoF games, and even in screenshots.
     
  16. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Emperor

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    You are far too logical. :p It is as Spoonwood says, the exporter always takes the rep-hit, regardless whose fault it was.
     
  17. darski

    darski Regent in Training

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    Ah well... I just have to get through the years for my cultural win. Thanks guys.

    We don't need no stinkin' AI Civs :lol:
     
  18. scratchthepitch

    scratchthepitch King

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    That sucks.
     
  19. FrozenSphere

    FrozenSphere Chieftain

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    Ok so can you tell me again, what are all the reasons why you would ever want to disconnect your own resources? You mentioned this above, also, in response to the question about planting cities on top of a resource.

    Thanks
     
  20. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    1. You can build cheaper units and then upgrade them. Doing this ends up costing less than cash-rushing the units would. Also, so long as you have enough cash, it'll produce more advanced units faster than if you had not cash-rushed those units. For example, if you want cavalry quickly and have some cash to spare, you could either

    A. just let the cavalry complete regularly and micromanage, which takes a few turns no matter what you do,

    B. buy a worker, and then swap to a cavalry which costs you (80+(4*70))=360 gold with no shields in the box,

    C. with say 30 shields in the box, you would pay (50*4)=200 gold to complete the cavalry via cash-rushing... note that once you have a shield in the box you pay 4 gold per shield when cash-rushing (no exceptions)...

    D. put out a horseman with the saltpeter and/or iron disconnected (if you learn a tech during the inter-turn, or you'll have to wait to upgrade). Then reconnect the saltpeter. Then zoom to the city, and you can pay 50 shields worth in upgrading. Since you upgrade at 3 gold per shield, without Leo's, you'll pay 150 gold for the upgrade. So, you save 50 gold for each horseman you upgrade over cash-rushing it. I repeat, that's 50 gold saved without Leo's. With Leo's you pay 1.5 gold per shield in upgrades. So, if you upgrade from a horseman to a cavalry you pay (1.5*50)=75 gold. So, you save 125 gold for each horseman you upgrade over cash-rushing it if you have Leo's.

    Of course, upgrading to knights or swordsmen/medieval infantry of some type might come as a better example here, but I just put that forth as an example.

    2. If you disconnect your resource, you can then trade for any extra resources the AIs have. Combine that with a disconnect of your capital after trading for those resources with the AIs, and you can obtain techs, gold, gpt (via the lump sums you have... see the screenshots above), workers, and a declaration of war from the AI.

    I'll also note that there do exist other ways to obtain cash on higher levels especially, or later on in lower level games. You can sell techs for gpt. You can also pay gpt to the AIs for their lump sums (and then try to get them to declare war on one way or another to get your gpt back). And, of course, you can try shutting off research at some point/doing minimal research at some point.

    If anyone reading this hasn't tried to see how much faster you can get train a powerful army by disconnecting your own resources (mostly iron/saltpeter... there's no need to disconnect horses, and I haven't done any disconnects to upgrade from tanks to modern armor), and then reconnecting them and upgrading, I would highly recommend giving this a go sometime on a larger map size. It might take more work, but you won't realize how powerful it can work until you've tried it at least once.
     

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