walletta
King
Thanks both. Great advice and info.
Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions
- Thread starter Turner
- Start date
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
In the C3C Random-Emp game I'm playing at the moment (as the Koreans), I got dealt a relatively poor starting position, and got outexpanded by everyone (I'm aiming to fix that soon, but that's not the point). I have not DoW'd anyone (I have weathered multiple AI-DoWs, although very few actual shooting wars, fortunately for me), and I have done my best to keep my trade-rep clean; but now I seem to have lost it.
On T130, shortly before my GA began, and 3T before a 'PT for [lumpsum plus] 7GPT tribute' deal expired, the Aztecs demanded a further payment of 26g tribute. I turned Monty down, and he DoW'd again (for the 3rd time), saving me the 3*7GPT=21g that I presumably would still have had to pay him, in addition to that 26g tribute. Since he had been the one to break the PT, I assumed that my trade-rep would remain intact, as stated in Microbe's article. Indeed, this seemed to be the case: I signed peace again shortly afterwards, after my GA had begun (T139), in order to protect a newly-founded and relatively-exposed tundra town on the northern edge of my continent, because it was vital to my national interests: it would eventually get me access to Spices (a second homegrown Lux) and Iron (at last). This time Monty took 15g+6GPT for peace.
While that deal was running (T145), I also signed one with the Hittites to import their Wines, for 15g upfront, and 7GPT, since I prefer to pay for per-turn goods using as much GPT as practical. I also signed an RoP with them, paying another 2GPT for the privilege. I raked in around 750g during my GA (I was trying to save up for unit-upgrades and cash-rushes), and revolted to Republic immediately after it ended (T151). After only 4T of Anarchy (-11GPT), a bit of deficit research, and submitting to Mursi's and Gil's demands for ~50g tribute each, I still had about 550g left.
When my Wine-import expired (T165), Mursilis Politely demanded140160g upfront to renew it (I still hadn't got the Spices hooked). I could haggle him down to 130140g, but as soon as I tried offering the majority of the payment as GPT (as before) -- even when I more than tripled his asking price, to 100g+20GPT -- my Foreign Advisor gave me the 'they will never accept' message. Admittedly, I was already running a small deficit (-1GPT) at that point, but I could still just about have afforded that price, although it would have nearly drained my treasury. He would however accept 120g+6GPT -- so I ended up paying much more than he'd initially asked for 
but less upfront. On the following turn, our RoP expired. This time he asked for 40g straight up, would accept 30g on its own, but then rejected the deal when I added 2GPT as a sweetener
I suspect that my trade-rep is now broken, but I cannot figure out when or how that might have happened. As a test I also tried offering Monty a grossly unequal deal in his favour -- 100g in exchange for a 1GPT repayment -- and he also refused it, even though he was pretty much broke. So my question(s) are:
On T130, shortly before my GA began, and 3T before a 'PT for [lumpsum plus] 7GPT tribute' deal expired, the Aztecs demanded a further payment of 26g tribute. I turned Monty down, and he DoW'd again (for the 3rd time), saving me the 3*7GPT=21g that I presumably would still have had to pay him, in addition to that 26g tribute. Since he had been the one to break the PT, I assumed that my trade-rep would remain intact, as stated in Microbe's article. Indeed, this seemed to be the case: I signed peace again shortly afterwards, after my GA had begun (T139), in order to protect a newly-founded and relatively-exposed tundra town on the northern edge of my continent, because it was vital to my national interests: it would eventually get me access to Spices (a second homegrown Lux) and Iron (at last). This time Monty took 15g+6GPT for peace.
While that deal was running (T145), I also signed one with the Hittites to import their Wines, for 15g upfront, and 7GPT, since I prefer to pay for per-turn goods using as much GPT as practical. I also signed an RoP with them, paying another 2GPT for the privilege. I raked in around 750g during my GA (I was trying to save up for unit-upgrades and cash-rushes), and revolted to Republic immediately after it ended (T151). After only 4T of Anarchy (-11GPT), a bit of deficit research, and submitting to Mursi's and Gil's demands for ~50g tribute each, I still had about 550g left.
When my Wine-import expired (T165), Mursilis Politely demanded
but less upfront. On the following turn, our RoP expired. This time he asked for 40g straight up, would accept 30g on its own, but then rejected the deal when I added 2GPT as a sweetenerI suspect that my trade-rep is now broken, but I cannot figure out when or how that might have happened. As a test I also tried offering Monty a grossly unequal deal in his favour -- 100g in exchange for a 1GPT repayment -- and he also refused it, even though he was pretty much broke. So my question(s) are:
- Does it sound as though my trade-rep has indeed been broken?
- If not, why wasn't I allowed to pay large amounts of GPT for Mursi's Wines?
- If so, when could it have happened?
walletta
King
I shall be interested in the answers to this.
Meanwhile, could someone please tell me where to find advice on advanced tech research/the tech race and tech trading?
Meanwhile, could someone please tell me where to find advice on advanced tech research/the tech race and tech trading?
So your rep is fine, but your surpluss is not. AI only accepts currently existing surplusses. Decrease luxus slider and research sliders to zero to max out your surpluss during negotiations and you will be fine.
walletta
King
walletta
King
Nevermind this question
The AI is good at using stealth attack. They picked my lower defender from a stack. I should watch my steps from now on.
Wait, are you saying you can choose the order in which units are stacked and that a bomber, say, will hit the topmost first? What?
That would be a useful way of getting rid of obsolete units without spending money on upgrades.walletta
King
Newbie question: is there a way to make enemy bombing hit your units rather than city improvements? I guess not but that would be another good trick.
It's hard-coded. I don't know the exact numbers/percentages, but it must be something like this:
Vanilla/PtW:
Conquests:
I have never observed it, but I think there is also a very very small probability of destroying a Wonder?!
Regarding units, there is also an order in which they are hit: planes are hit first, after that ships and only then land units. (I don't know whether the type of bombardment unit makes any difference, e.g. whether ships first target ships and only afterwards planes?!)
Vanilla/PtW:
- Kill population (if > 1): 90%
- Destroy building (if one still exists): 9%
- Hit unit: 1%
Conquests:
- Hit unit: 98%
- Destroy building: 1%
- Kill population: 1%
I have never observed it, but I think there is also a very very small probability of destroying a Wonder?!
Regarding units, there is also an order in which they are hit: planes are hit first, after that ships and only then land units. (I don't know whether the type of bombardment unit makes any difference, e.g. whether ships first target ships and only afterwards planes?!)
walletta
King
Ah OK, thanks. So plenty of ground units is a good idea. I am bound to say the hit rate against buildings seems a lot more than 1% to me. However, I have not been observing that closely. That must mean that when you start getting messages like 'The Temple of Accra has been destroyed!' there is a good chance the town/city no longer has any defensive units.
Does it work the same way with artillery? Again, the percentages seem higher than that to me, as a matter of pure feel (again, I have not been counting)
http://www.civforum.de/showthread.php?86307-Bombardierung-von-St%E4dten-in-C3C-1-22
It does make a huge difference.
Wonders can be destroyed if the bombarded civ has not reached the industrial age yet.
Units seem to be hit with 100% probabilty unless walls or coastal fortresses protect them. Than those protective buildings will be hit first.
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
I don't remember it being that bad, but the probability of hitting population or buildings was certainly a lot higher in Vanilla than in C3C (where it is indeed practically zero, before all units have been redlined/killed by bombardment)...
As far as I can tell in C3C, like targets like, at least initially, as you suggested. I have a feeling that planes might preferentially target AA units (e.g. Flak, Mobile SAMs) as well.
And wasn't it you who told me once that ships will target coastal forts (if the AI built them
) before any ships in port, just like land-bombard units will target the Walls (if any) first, before the units? The latter being responsible for the Wonder-Walls bug that I believe you're referring to above...EDIT: X-post with Justanick
Wait, are you saying you can choose the order in which units are stacked and that a bomber, say, will hit the topmost first? What?
You defend first with the highest ranked defender first (defense * fortification * health etc).
But I added a crossbow to the game, who has Stealth Attack - so I was surprised that my horses were attacked sooner than my swordsmen; the AI was picking the lower defenders from the stack first. That's what they were designed to do.
Lord AJ
The Quartermaster
Does abandoning a city actually give one a settler. I really don't think so as I've tries abandoning cities as larger as size 12 and still I didn't even get a worker. I'm asking this because in the palace jump technique I remember reading that after you abandon the city we can use the SETTLER IT PRODUCES to rebuild the capital.
Abandoning doesn't give you anything. But you can build a settler at size 1 or 2 with 0 food per turn. Then the game asks you whether you want to complete the settler or keep the town. That is called settler-disbanding and is sometimes done to jump the palace: keep building settlers until the capital gets down to size 0.
Workers you get when razing a city, i.e. when capturing a city with military and then clicking "We don't want it. Raze the city!" in the popup that asks you, whether you want to install a new governor or burn it to the ground. You get half the citizens as slaves, rounded down. So the town needs to be a least size 3, before you get any slaves from razing. because one citizen is killed, when the town is captured.
Workers you get when razing a city, i.e. when capturing a city with military and then clicking "We don't want it. Raze the city!" in the popup that asks you, whether you want to install a new governor or burn it to the ground. You get half the citizens as slaves, rounded down. So the town needs to be a least size 3, before you get any slaves from razing. because one citizen is killed, when the town is captured.
Lord AJ
The Quartermaster
Oh so that's the way the trick works. Thanks.
Yeah I was aware of this. I've had to do city razing many times to keep from hitting domination. [emoji28]
Does the AI upgrade units? As in, if I pre-place an immobile ship hull in a scenario, then give the AI the option to upgrade it to an aircraft carrier, would they do it?
I'm thinking of putting my own spin on a Cold War scenario and want to have a way for India, who only got their first carrier in the 60s, to build it, but I don't want them to have any more.
I'm thinking of putting my own spin on a Cold War scenario and want to have a way for India, who only got their first carrier in the 60s, to build it, but I don't want them to have any more.
That;s good. I was wondering due to the many many games I've played where the AI's declared war on me in the mid to late game and come charging into my territory with a mix of tanks and spearmen, when they could have long since upgraded the spearmen.
