1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Turner, Apr 23, 2009.

  1. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,686
    Location:
    on a learning curve
    i am not a big 20k player, but i would say with a strong 20k town you sooner or later will get the wonders you want, given you manage to stay in the trades that keep you up in techs. because an optimized HI city with, say, 30 shields can still beat the AIs to a wonder, because you will pre-build. that´s the main difference.

    however, MGLs will help you only little in C3C. in PTW they are great of course. but in C3C you need SGLs in order to rush a wonder, and you won't be first to too many techs.

    t_x
     
  2. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2016
    Messages:
    33
    Gender:
    Male
    How does the gold/shield cost of rushing production compare to the cost of upgrading obsolete units in 3 Complete?
     
  3. justanick

    justanick Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,186
    Location:
    Germany
    You mean Conquests, but as i recall it it does not differ between the version.

    4 gold per shield at cash rushing, 3 at upgrading, 1.5 at upgrading with Leonardo. Also coldrushing cost 8 gold per shield, so having at east one shield prior to cash rushing helps a lot.
     
  4. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    52,073
    Location:
    up yours.
    Rushing production has the benefit of increasing your net amount of units, and an existing bunch of Swordsmen can be quite effective, say, when picking off incoming Knights.
     
  5. hth

    hth Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    139
    2 / 1 in [ptw]
     
  6. justanick

    justanick Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,186
    Location:
    Germany
    And 1/1 with Leonardo?
     
  7. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,822
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    He meant: "2 without and 1 with Leonardo"...

    Edit: which by the way makes disconnect/connect very powerful in Vanilla/PtW
     
  8. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2016
    Messages:
    33
    Gender:
    Male
    I actually jumped straight from Vanilla to the Complete combination of both expansions, rather than just one or the other.

    Wow. So missing Leonardo's to an AI isn't a very forgiving mistake ;)

    ... Wow again. It never occurred to me that there would be a difference, thanks.

    On a similar note, how long do obsolete units remain available in case I decide that, say, making 3 Hoplites is more cost-effective than making a Musketman?
     
  9. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,822
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    This must be a misunderstanding on your part: there is no such thing as a "complete combination of both expansions". There are three versions: "Vanilla", "Play the World" and "Conquests". The "Complete" edition just means: all three of them in one installation. (I think the start picture looks a bit different in the "Complete" installation, but that's all.)

    Depends on your strategy. Also: sometimes it is better to let a nearby neighbor build Leonardo for you. You use the 600 shields for something "really" useful, like 20 Horsemen, and when your neighbor is finished with it, you go and capture it... (Works best on the medium difficulty levels. On the lower levels, it may take the AI forever to get the thing finished, and on the higher levels, it may be too difficult to capture it, if the AI, which built it, is too far away.)

    Once you have the required tech (Gunpowder) and the required resource (saltpeter), you can no longer build the obsolete unit.
    This is the reason, why there is the "Disconnect/Connect"-Strategy: for example for quickly producing a large army of Cavalry, you connect only one saltpeter, place a warrior and 3 workers on the tile. You pillage your saltpeter with the Warrior, then set all cities to build Horsemen, then let the workers connect the saltpeter again. After 2-3 turns, when the Horsemen finish, you zoom into the town, right-click the Horseman and upgrade to Cavalry in the same turn. Rinse and Repeat.
    This is the most efficient way to use both, shields and gold, for producing a powerful army.
     
  10. justanick

    justanick Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,186
    Location:
    Germany
    This misconception i tried to eliminate. Whether you install Conquest(and thereby also PtW included in it) over an installation of Civ3 or install Conquests by installing Complete makes no difference. Conquests will not differ and it is Conquests you will play. You can of course also play the 2 outdated version, but i would not advise it.

    C3C refers to Civ3 Conquests, the game you might want to play. It has nothing to do with Civ3 Complete, a way to install Conquests and its necessities.

    I think it is. Personally i think Leonardo to be one of the more omissible wonders. Once you have railroads production will be ample enough to build units from scratch, thereby saving expenses on upgrades and gaining some shields by disbanding outdated units in cities that need those shields.

    This one is tricky. Once you can build the more modern unit you can no longer build the obsolete unit. So cannot build pikemen once you can build Musketmen. As for units currently being constructed their construction is always upgraded to the most modern unit available when you obtain a tech. So if you build Pikemen, gain Gundpower, but have no salpeter the Pikemen will continue to be build, even once you have salpeter. Now, if you obtain a new tech by trading or somehow finding monarchy in a hut or simply by regular research, then the Pikemen in produktion are changed to Musketmen.

    Unique units like the greek hoplite can trigger the golden age. Until you have triggered your golden age you can build your unique unit. So you may build them even once you can build musketmen, riflemen or infantry.
     
  11. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2016
    Messages:
    33
    Gender:
    Male
    Huh, did not know that.

    I'd assumed that Vanilla was the list of "A" features, PTW was the list of "A+B" features, Conquest was the list of "A+C" features, and Complete was the list of "A+B+C" features.

    Are PtW and Conquests just the additions of extra features that can be added on top of each other?

    Oh wow :) That sounds amazing.
     
  12. EMan

    EMan HOFer: Milk-Cow? Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,923
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Denver/Phoenix Born:Hampton Court
    I'm a bit rusty on this strategy, so please remind me:
    If you connect the saltpeter before the horseman completes, wouldn't the City production box change the horseman to cavalry?

    BTW, I thought your post was spot on! :goodjob: :goodjob:
     
  13. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    52,073
    Location:
    up yours.
    If you do that you have to be careful, lest you be stuck producing Knights.
     
  14. justanick

    justanick Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,186
    Location:
    Germany
    The important part is that Conquests does contain PtW. By installing Conquests i accidently also installed PtW, it cannot be avoided.
     
  15. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2016
    Messages:
    33
    Gender:
    Male
    Huh :rolleyes: Did not know that
     
  16. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    52,073
    Location:
    up yours.
    Conquests or Complete?
     
  17. justanick

    justanick Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,186
    Location:
    Germany
  18. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    52,073
    Location:
    up yours.
    Grrr you remind me that I've been postponing learning German for the past three years grrr
     
  19. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,822
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    No, it doesn't. Only if in the meantime you obtain a new tech (by research or by trade), as already pointed out by justanick. The tech doesn't need to have anything to do with the units. Just the fact that a new tech was aquired seems to cause the game to trigger an algorithm that goes through all city buildlists and checks whether all units currently under production are still "up-to-date".

    This is a bit annoying, but no big deal: you just pillage your saltpeter again, set all Cavalries back to Horseman, and then reconnect the saltpeter.
     
  20. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,822
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    I can only say: start learning it, it's worth it! Then you can read many important works of literature & philosophy in the original. (In my opinion, a translation can never match the orginal. I read a couple of Shakespeare's classics first in a German translation and later in English, and it's not the same. -- And I'm sure that I'm missing a lot by not being able to read Tolstoy and Dostojevsky in Russian... :( One of these days I'm going to learn it... just... one... more... turn...)

    :D
     

Share This Page