Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[templar_x]

i am not a big 20k player, but i would say with a strong 20k town you sooner or later will get the wonders you want, given you manage to stay in the trades that keep you up in techs. because an optimized HI city with, say, 30 shields can still beat the AIs to a wonder, because you will pre-build. that´s the main difference.

however, MGLs will help you only little in C3C. in PTW they are great of course. but in C3C you need SGLs in order to rush a wonder, and you won't be first to too many techs.

t_x

 

[Simpson17866]

How does the gold/shield cost of rushing production compare to the cost of upgrading obsolete units in 3 Complete?

 

[justanick]

How does the gold/shield cost of rushing production compare to the cost of upgrading obsolete units in 3 Complete?

You mean Conquests, but as i recall it it does not differ between the version.

4 gold per shield at cash rushing, 3 at upgrading, 1.5 at upgrading with Leonardo. Also coldrushing cost 8 gold per shield, so having at east one shield prior to cash rushing helps a lot.

 

[Takhisis]

Rushing production has the benefit of increasing your net amount of units, and an existing bunch of Swordsmen can be quite effective, say, when picking off incoming Knights.

 

[hth]

3 at upgrading, 1.5 at upgrading with Leonardo.

2 / 1 in

 

[justanick]

2 / 1 in

And 1/1 with Leonardo?

 

[Lanzelot]

And 1/1 with Leonardo?

He meant: "2 without and 1 with Leonardo"...

Edit: which by the way makes disconnect/connect very powerful in Vanilla/PtW

 

[Simpson17866]

You mean Conquests, but as i recall it it does not differ between the version.

I actually jumped straight from Vanilla to the Complete combination of both expansions, rather than just one or the other.

4 gold per shield at cash rushing, 3 at upgrading, 1.5 at upgrading with Leonardo.

Wow. So missing Leonardo's to an AI isn't a very forgiving mistake

Also coldrushing cost 8 gold per shield, so having at east one shield prior to cash rushing helps a lot.

... Wow again. It never occurred to me that there would be a difference, thanks.

On a similar note, how long do obsolete units remain available in case I decide that, say, making 3 Hoplites is more cost-effective than making a Musketman?

 

[Lanzelot]

I actually jumped straight from Vanilla to the Complete combination of both expansions, rather than just one or the other.

This must be a misunderstanding on your part: there is no such thing as a "complete combination of both expansions". There are three versions: "Vanilla", "Play the World" and "Conquests". The "Complete" edition just means: all three of them in one installation. (I think the start picture looks a bit different in the "Complete" installation, but that's all.)

Wow. So missing Leonardo's to an AI isn't a very forgiving mistake

Depends on your strategy. Also: sometimes it is better to let a nearby neighbor build Leonardo for you. You use the 600 shields for something "really" useful, like 20 Horsemen, and when your neighbor is finished with it, you go and capture it... (Works best on the medium difficulty levels. On the lower levels, it may take the AI forever to get the thing finished, and on the higher levels, it may be too difficult to capture it, if the AI, which built it, is too far away.)

On a similar note, how long do obsolete units remain available in case I decide that, say, making 3 Hoplites is more cost-effective than making a Musketman?

Once you have the required tech (Gunpowder) and the required resource (saltpeter), you can no longer build the obsolete unit.
This is the reason, why there is the "Disconnect/Connect"-Strategy: for example for quickly producing a large army of Cavalry, you connect only one saltpeter, place a warrior and 3 workers on the tile. You pillage your saltpeter with the Warrior, then set all cities to build Horsemen, then let the workers connect the saltpeter again. After 2-3 turns, when the Horsemen finish, you zoom into the town, right-click the Horseman and upgrade to Cavalry in the same turn. Rinse and Repeat.
This is the most efficient way to use both, shields and gold, for producing a powerful army.

 

[justanick]

I actually jumped straight from Vanilla to the Complete combination of both expansions, rather than just one or the other.

This misconception i tried to eliminate. Whether you install Conquest(and thereby also PtW included in it) over an installation of Civ3 or install Conquests by installing Complete makes no difference. Conquests will not differ and it is Conquests you will play. You can of course also play the 2 outdated version, but i would not advise it.

C3C refers to Civ3 Conquests, the game you might want to play. It has nothing to do with Civ3 Complete, a way to install Conquests and its necessities.

Wow. So missing Leonardo's to an AI isn't a very forgiving mistake

I think it is. Personally i think Leonardo to be one of the more omissible wonders. Once you have railroads production will be ample enough to build units from scratch, thereby saving expenses on upgrades and gaining some shields by disbanding outdated units in cities that need those shields.

On a similar note, how long do obsolete units remain available in case I decide that, say, making 3 Hoplites is more cost-effective than making a Musketman?

This one is tricky. Once you can build the more modern unit you can no longer build the obsolete unit. So cannot build pikemen once you can build Musketmen. As for units currently being constructed their construction is always upgraded to the most modern unit available when you obtain a tech. So if you build Pikemen, gain Gundpower, but have no salpeter the Pikemen will continue to be build, even once you have salpeter. Now, if you obtain a new tech by trading or somehow finding monarchy in a hut or simply by regular research, then the Pikemen in produktion are changed to Musketmen.

Unique units like the greek hoplite can trigger the golden age. Until you have triggered your golden age you can build your unique unit. So you may build them even once you can build musketmen, riflemen or infantry.

 

[Simpson17866]

This must be a misunderstanding on your part: there is no such thing as a "complete combination of both expansions". There are three versions: "Vanilla", "Play the World" and "Conquests". The "Complete" edition just means: all three of them in one installation. (I think the start picture looks a bit different in the "Complete" installation, but that's all.)

Huh, did not know that.

I'd assumed that Vanilla was the list of "A" features, PTW was the list of "A+B" features, Conquest was the list of "A+C" features, and Complete was the list of "A+B+C" features.

Are PtW and Conquests just the additions of extra features that can be added on top of each other?

Depends on your strategy. Also: sometimes it is better to let a nearby neighbor build Leonardo for you. You use the 600 shields for something "really" useful, like 20 Horsemen, and when your neighbor is finished with it, you go and capture it... (Works best on the medium difficulty levels. On the lower levels, it may take the AI forever to get the thing finished, and on the higher levels, it may be too difficult to capture it, if the AI, which built it, is too far away.)

Once you have the required tech (Gunpowder) and the required resource (saltpeter), you can no longer build the obsolete unit.
This is the reason, why there is the "Disconnect/Connect"-Strategy: for example for quickly producing a large army of Cavalry, you connect only one saltpeter, place a warrior and 3 workers on the tile. You pillage your saltpeter with the Warrior, then set all cities to build Horsemen, then let the workers connect the saltpeter again. After 2-3 turns, when the Horsemen finish, you zoom into the town, right-click the Horseman and upgrade to Cavalry in the same turn. Rinse and Repeat.
This is the most efficient way to use both, shields and gold, for producing a powerful army.

Oh wow That sounds amazing.

 

[EMan]

...This is the reason, why there is the "Disconnect/Connect"-Strategy: for example for quickly producing a large army of Cavalry, you connect only one saltpeter, place a warrior and 3 workers on the tile. You pillage your saltpeter with the Warrior, then set all cities to build Horsemen, then let the workers connect the saltpeter again. After 2-3 turns, when the Horsemen finish, you zoom into the town, right-click the Horseman and upgrade to Cavalry in the same turn. Rinse and Repeat.....

I'm a bit rusty on this strategy, so please remind me:
If you connect the saltpeter before the horseman completes, wouldn't the City production box change the horseman to cavalry?

BTW, I thought your post was spot on!

 

[Takhisis]

If you do that you have to be careful, lest you be stuck producing Knights.

 

[justanick]

Are PtW and Conquests just the additions of extra features that can be added on top of each other?

The important part is that Conquests does contain PtW. By installing Conquests i accidently also installed PtW, it cannot be avoided.

 

[Simpson17866]

The important part is that Conquests does contain PtW. By installing Conquests i accidently also installed PtW, it cannot be avoided.

Huh Did not know that

 

[Takhisis]

Conquests or Complete?

 

[justanick]

Conquests.

Alle Kern-Inhalte (ohne Mods) des 1. Civ3-Addons Play The World (PTW)

http://www.civ3.de/www/content/index.php?cat=27

 

[Takhisis]

Grrr you remind me that I've been postponing learning German for the past three years grrr

 

[Lanzelot]

I'm a bit rusty on this strategy, so please remind me:
If you connect the saltpeter before the horseman completes, wouldn't the City production box change the horseman to cavalry?

No, it doesn't. Only if in the meantime you obtain a new tech (by research or by trade), as already pointed out by justanick. The tech doesn't need to have anything to do with the units. Just the fact that a new tech was aquired seems to cause the game to trigger an algorithm that goes through all city buildlists and checks whether all units currently under production are still "up-to-date".

This is a bit annoying, but no big deal: you just pillage your saltpeter again, set all Cavalries back to Horseman, and then reconnect the saltpeter.

 

[Lanzelot]

Grrr you remind me that I've been postponing learning German for the past three years grrr

I can only say: start learning it, it's worth it! Then you can read many important works of literature & philosophy in the original. (In my opinion, a translation can never match the orginal. I read a couple of Shakespeare's classics first in a German translation and later in English, and it's not the same. -- And I'm sure that I'm missing a lot by not being able to read Tolstoy and Dostojevsky in Russian... One of these days I'm going to learn it... just... one... more... turn...)