Bartleby
Remembers laughter
I looked again at the "turn before" save in CAII and it turns out I was importing spices from Russia; that must be the problem. That trade would have been for tech upfront; I didn't realise that was rep-risky. 
Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions
- Thread starter Turner
- Start date
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
I am not sure the spices import has anything got to do with it. Rather, the problem lies here:
I think that combining those two is simply a no-no. You can combine an alliance-against-a-doomed-civ with almost anything you like without ever facing the risk of taking a rep hit, just not a peace treaty.
I think that combining those two is simply a no-no. You can combine an alliance-against-a-doomed-civ with almost anything you like without ever facing the risk of taking a rep hit, just not a peace treaty.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
OK, thanks Lord Emsworth. Good to know for the future.
I'm actually beyond the point of caring about my reputation in this game, I just usually like to keep it for its own sake.
I'm actually beyond the point of caring about my reputation in this game, I just usually like to keep it for its own sake.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
I'm not convinced by this, Lord Em; I think there is something else going on here and it would be nice to get to the bottom of it.
Bartleby: Can you remember exactly the terms of the spice deal? Of particular interest would be if Russia put up any 'hard' goods, ie. WM, lump-sum gold (however little).
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
I think it was a straight tech-for-lux swap, but then I might have taken spare change if they had it. Definitely no WM because Navigation hasn't been researched. Actually, thinking about it I must've traded for Music Theory at some stage so that could have been involved.
I probably have a save from near the start of the deal to be able to tell if Russia was likely to have spare gold at the time; I can't really dig around in the old saves at the moment because it's a HoF game in progress.
I probably have a save from near the start of the deal to be able to tell if Russia was likely to have spare gold at the time; I can't really dig around in the old saves at the moment because it's a HoF game in progress.
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
What works fine is, making alliance+peace-deals that your ally breaks by signing peace. Here you'll get war happyness and walk scot-free wrt to reputation. What Bartleby did is slightly different, as the target civ was knocked out though.
But you are right to be skeptical, and the best would be to test it obviously. On the other hand, I managed to dig out this thread where I. Larkin points out exactly the same, i.e. Peace+MA against a civ that gets killed does not give you WH and toasts your reputation:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=246590
few questions about the UN and diplo victory
if you build the UN, do you always control the vote? I know when it is first built you get the option to hold the vote. If you decline, how do you initiate another vote? Can anyone initiate another vote?
also can you sabotage wonders? or how does sabotage work? Never done it before...
In a game with diplo VC enabled and there is no way I will win the vote. If I build it, can I just never have a vote?
if you build the UN, do you always control the vote? I know when it is first built you get the option to hold the vote. If you decline, how do you initiate another vote? Can anyone initiate another vote?
also can you sabotage wonders? or how does sabotage work? Never done it before...
In a game with diplo VC enabled and there is no way I will win the vote. If I build it, can I just never have a vote?
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Yes, you always control the vote. You cannot initiate a vote, but are offered the opportunity every 10 or so turns.
You cannot sabotage Wonders if already built. You can sabotage the building of one by using a 'spy mission'; to do that, you need to plant a spy (via SHIFT+E); to plant a spy requires the 'Intelligence Agency', available with 'Espionage'.
Yes.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
The vote is every 11 turns.
If an AI builds the UN, there's a good chance they won't hold a vote because they probably ruined their reputation.
If an AI builds the UN, there's a good chance they won't hold a vote because they probably ruined their reputation.
splunge the 2nd
King
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2007
- Messages
- 741
I won a diplo victory by warring early on my own continent before the other AI's met my neighbors, then being very friendly and fair tot eh folks across the ocean.
Other people have answered the main question about the UN and sabotaging wonders.
Sorry if this is obvious, but giving gifts is a very good way to get others to vote for you. Give them a couple of hundred gold or a cheapo tech to some AI that's way behind. Watch their attitude improve substantially. Make sure you know who your opponent will be. It might be somebody who's been as mean to the poor AI's as you were. You might even be able to sign military alliances with others to war against him, making them hate him.
Pacioli
Prince
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2009
- Messages
- 418
How quickly does war weariness affect a democracy? Is the best way to avoid war weariness or hold it off in a democracy by using the luxury slider? My current game is a emperor histographic attempt. I control 44% of the world and must battle the AI to get up to the magical 66%.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
War Weariness is exactly the same in Democracy as it is in Republic. The difference between the two governments is that when Democracy gets to a certain level you will be dumped into Anarchy.
How quickly it mounts up depends on how things are happening in your game; if the AI attacks one of your units you get a war-weariness point win or lose. If you attack an AI unit and lose you get a ww point. If you have units in the AI territory at the end of your turn you get a ww point and if the AI has units in your territory at the end of your turn you get a wwp. If you lose a town, then you get 25 wwp (IIRC). You also get wwp from having units or terrain improvemnets damaged by bombardment.
Maybe this is cognitive bias showing, but I have a feeling that the AI will attempt to negotiate with you when you're about to move up a ww level; so if you are in Democracy I would consider making peace if they offer it, if you know you have bad ww from that tribe.
The other piece of (too late) advice that I would give you is not to bother with Democracy in histographic games, even as a Religious civ. There's always something more important than Democracy to research--in the late middle ages you should be concentrating on getting to the IA for rails, after that you should be concentrating on replaceable parts, then sanitation. By that time there shouldn't be a lot of fighting left to do (there *may* be if you're on an Archipelago map but in that case combustion is the next priority to make shipping easier with transports), so WW may not be a problem anymore, but you will not gain a lot by changing from Republic to Democracy.
edit: Bah, crosspost with Turner.
edit 2: The flipside to WW: War Happiness.
edit 3: After looking back at the WW article it seems that WW effectively builds up twice as quicky in Demo; the points are the same but the effects are much worse.
How quickly it mounts up depends on how things are happening in your game; if the AI attacks one of your units you get a war-weariness point win or lose. If you attack an AI unit and lose you get a ww point. If you have units in the AI territory at the end of your turn you get a ww point and if the AI has units in your territory at the end of your turn you get a wwp. If you lose a town, then you get 25 wwp (IIRC). You also get wwp from having units or terrain improvemnets damaged by bombardment.
Maybe this is cognitive bias showing, but I have a feeling that the AI will attempt to negotiate with you when you're about to move up a ww level; so if you are in Democracy I would consider making peace if they offer it, if you know you have bad ww from that tribe.
The other piece of (too late) advice that I would give you is not to bother with Democracy in histographic games, even as a Religious civ. There's always something more important than Democracy to research--in the late middle ages you should be concentrating on getting to the IA for rails, after that you should be concentrating on replaceable parts, then sanitation. By that time there shouldn't be a lot of fighting left to do (there *may* be if you're on an Archipelago map but in that case combustion is the next priority to make shipping easier with transports), so WW may not be a problem anymore, but you will not gain a lot by changing from Republic to Democracy.
edit: Bah, crosspost with Turner.
edit 2: The flipside to WW: War Happiness.
edit 3: After looking back at the WW article it seems that WW effectively builds up twice as quicky in Demo; the points are the same but the effects are much worse.
