R&L03 The Lost Dutchman's Mine (C3C)

[RowAndLive]

Need a swap. Gator?

Roster:
- RowAndLive - swap with Gator - On Deck
- DJMGator13 - UP
- Elmarae -
- jb1964 -
- Iroquois Plisken - Broadened Our Horizons
- rrau - Trading Queen

 

[Zorn]

I am not participating, but I want to ask a short question.
Why did you found Philadelphia on that spot? I understand that it is reasonable to place cities tightly together in order to have more of them. But on that peninsula is only place for one city whatsoever. If Philadelphia was founded one tile furter SW, there would have been zero overlap and zero fields wasted.
Am I missing something?

 

[DJMGator13]

I can grab it, probably play tomorrow night.

 

[RowAndLive]

I am not participating, but I want to ask a short question.
Why did you found Philadelphia on that spot? I understand that it is reasonable to place cities tightly together in order to have more of them. But on that peninsula is only place for one city whatsoever. If Philadelphia was founded one tile furter SW, there would have been zero overlap and zero fields wasted.
Am I missing something?

I spotted it there to get more workable tiles earlier, and to not waste a forest. Mainly for earlier use of tiles. Either way, all we gain are coastal tiles, and sharing some tiles may be good, as you'll notice we did with several other cities.

 

[Elmarae]

Okay I'm back after a bad bout of bronchitis and a bad reaction to pencillin, apparently I'm allergic to it. I'm not 100% but I will try to keep my commitments as I can.

 

[rrau]

@ Elmarae. Hope it was just a rash and not anaphalactic shock.

 

[DJMGator13]

Preturn - 1250BC
drop science to 90% still in 6 at -15gpt

IBT - Philadelphia barracks => curragh
Atlanta barracks => temple
San Fran worker => temple

Turn 1 - 1225BC
found Houston set to curragh
switch Boston, New York & Chicago from barracks to temple (since we're not pushing for early wars)
find a new border - no contact this turn

IBT - our people want to learn the Lambada, the Forbidden Dance and a palace to dance in / PORT learn MATH

Turn 2&3 - 1200 & 1175BC (somehow I combined these two turns)
CONTACT: HIT, 4 cities, 20 gold, iron & ivory, up HBR down MAS & MYST
TRADE: MYST & MAS for HBR and 20 gold
start a new suicide run

IBT - that was fast curragh at bottom of ocean

Turn 4 - 1150
start another suicide run since 2 curraghs are going up opposite sides of a narrow landmass where the Hittites are

IBT - we learn PHIl (1st) and select COL
Philadelphia curragh => temple

Turn 5 - 1125BC
set research to REP at 50% in 40 turns -2gpt
our suicide galley finds a light pink border, but no contact, we need to survive 1 more turn

IBT - hope floats

Turn 6 - 1100BC
CONTACT: VIK, 8 cities, 7 gold, iron, horses, furs, down MYST, PHIL & COL
sell HBR to BYZ for 295 gold
MATH is available if we trade both COL & PHIL but we're in no hurry for it since it will take a while to learn REP
we still have 4 unmet civs

Washington grew so I have to up lux to 10%
The extra gold from BYZ will allow us to up our research rate
90% in 23 turns at -18gpt = 414 gold
80% in 25 turns at -15gpt = 375 gold
70% in 30 turns at -10gpt = 300 gold
I go for the 90% rate - the 7 turn shorter research period will only cost us 114 more gold than if we went for the 70%

Turn 7 - 1075BC
not much

IBT - Chicago temple => curragh
Seattle curragh => temple
Miami worker => temple

Turn 8 - 1050BC
not much

IBT - New York temple => curragh
Boston temple => curragh
Houston curragh => temple
VIK learn MapM

Turn 9 - 1025BC
TRADE: COL & MYST to VIK for MAPM & 7 gold
TRADE: COL & PHIL to PORT for MATH & 13 gold
TRADE: PHIL to BYZ for 148gold and 4gpt
poprush the temple in Atlanta because I want to start it on the Great Lighthouse
start another suicide run

IBT - Atlanta temple => Great Lighthouse

Turn 10 - 1000BC
start another suicide run East of Boston spies some land if we survive the IBT
not much else

Notes to next player
1) I was irrigating some tiles to get us ready for republic, but there is a couple of BG's by Atlanta that should be mined again to help with the Great Lighthouse build (sorry about that, I didn't think we'd get a chance to go for 2 Wonders at one time)
2) We have two suicide curraghs about to make land fall if they survive the IBT and we have a third that is safely exploring by the VIK
3) We are in the tech lead and 20 turns from REP

The save

Our brave curraghs

 

[RowAndLive]

... our suicide galley finds a light pink border, but no contact, we need to survive 1 more turn

IBT - hope floats

Turn 6 - 1100BC
CONTACT: VIK

PINK Vikings?!?!?!? Girly Men!

That was some nice trading, Gator.

Got it.

 

[Elmarae]

It was more than just a rash it left me gasping and they kept me in hospital for observation for 2 nights. I'm okay now according to the doctors, I just have to sleep sitting up for a few more days until my lungs clear of the bronchitis. Best way to sleep sitting up is playing civ 3.

 

[DJMGator13]

@Elmarae - glad to hear you are doing better. You need to check into getting a Medic Alert braclet, so they don't give you penicillin when your not able to alert them yourself. My mom has a very bad allergy to it and its derivatives.

 

[RowAndLive]

Glad to hear that you are recovering, Elmarae! My wife recently had a reaction to Zithromax - rash, plus some swelling in the mouth after the first pill. Now on Doxycicline, but still no better.

1000 BC – 0
Check tech status:
Amr – 10 cities, 602g, -17gpt, +1 silk
Byz – cautious, 8 cities, 9g, 0gpt, +2 spices, down Math & CoL
Hit – annoyed, 4 cities, 0g, 0gpt, down Math, Philo, CoL & MM
Vik – cautious, 8 cities, 1g, 0gpt, down Math & Philo
Por – cautious, 8 cities, 1g, 0gpt, +1 incense, down MM

The best that I could do to prevent trading between the AI, would be to give CoL to Byz, Philo to Vik, and MM to Por. Rather, why not let the AI chew on the uneven values. Still, they will catch up before long. Boost lux to 10% to keep Washington happy building the Pyramids.

Gator’s Notes:
1) I was irrigating some tiles to get us ready for republic, but there is a couple of BG's by Atlanta that should be mined again to help with the Great Lighthouse build (sorry about that, I didn't think we'd get a chance to go for 2 Wonders at one time)
2) We have two suicide curraghs about to make land fall if they survive the IBT and we have a third that is safely exploring by the VIK

IBT: S curragh lost, but N survives.

975 – 1
MM Atlanta to get from 74 turns to 60 turns & grow in 3.
Curragh 2 (N suicide) heads E and sees brown border (Rus?), but needs to live again to contact.
Curragh 3 (near Viks) find bright chartreuse border (Persians?).

IBT: Washington riots > taxman. Curragh 2 lost. Persian workers appear.

950 – 2
Persia – annoyed, 7 cities, 13g, 0gpt, +1 fur, down Myst, Math, Philo, CoL & MM
Workers.

IBT: Persia demands & we agree. Get some cultural expansion.

925 – 3
Workers. Note still no AI tech trades.

IBT: Philadelphia temple > warrior. Portugal begins MoM, and complete Colossus in Oporto. Viks begin GLight. Byz & Hit begin Oracle. Hit begin Pyramids.

900 – 4
Workers.

IBT: Seattle riots > taxman

875 – 5
Curragh 3 sees shallower spot to NE of Gordium.

IBT: NYC galley > warrior, Boston galley > warrior, Philly warrior > settler (grow in 1).
Portugal begins GLight, Viks begin Oracle.

850 – 6
ships movin.

IBT: Byz begin MoM.

825 – 7
Portugal - Polite, 8 cities, 15g, 0gpt, horses & iron hooked-up, +2 incense, = tech,
Byz – cautious, 8 cities, 54g, 0gpt, horses attached, +2 spices, down CoL
Vik – cautious, 8 cities, 21g, 0gpt, horses & iron hooked-up, +1 fur, down Math & Philo
Hit - annoyed, 4 cities, 17g, 0gpt, down Math, Philo, CoL & MM
Per – annoyed, 7 cities, 16g, 0gpt, horses attached, +1 fur, down Myst, Math, Philo, CoL & MM

Curragh 4 spots coast tiles to W of N-most Hittite city.
Check cities, & only Miami growing.

IBT: NYC warrior > warrior, Boston warrior > galley.
Port begins SoZ.

800 – 8
Galley 1 successfully crosses to the SE & finds ice island.

IBT: Persians begin GLight.

775 – 9
Galley 1 sees brown border to E.

IBT: NYC warrior > galley.

750 – 10
Galley 1 contacts Rus galley.
Rus – 11 cities, 52g, 0gpt, horses & iron attached, +1 gems, down Myst, Math, Philo, CoL, HBR
Portugal - Polite, 8 cities, 50g, 0gpt, horses & iron hooked-up, +2 incense, = tech,
Byz – cautious, 8 cities, 61g, 0gpt, horses & iron attached, +3 spices, down CoL
Vik – cautious, 9 cities, 58g, 0gpt, horses & iron hooked-up, +1 fur, down Philo
Hit - annoyed, 4 cities, 2g, 0gpt, down Math, Philo, CoL
Per – annoyed, 7 cities, 1g, 0gpt, horses attached, +2 furs, down Myst, Math, Philo, CoL
It looks like the Viks were selling MM for cheap & gaining Math.

Check all cities for happiness, and bump taxman to clown in Washington & Seattle to allow science from 90% to 100%, shaving Republic down to 6 turns @ -2gpt (vs 7 turns @ +2gpt).

Curragh 3 sees shallows across bay to SE.

Notes –
Leave it up to next player on whether to:
- sell HBR to Russia for 52g,
- sell CoL to Byz for 61g,
- sell Philo to Viks for 58g
We don’t need the $ much, but better to get something rather than nothing if Byz & Viks do an even swap.

- 2 stacks of 4 workers each in forests can road tile in 1, & should do so.
- Magenta cirsles on minimap are confirmed land.
- Russia is indicated in white “RUS”
- Only the Dutch have yet to be met.
- Galley 2 near Philly is waiting settler & pick up extra warrior near San Fran to colonize either jungle island or fish island to N. I recommend jungle island myself.
- It might be worth dumping Pyramids in Washington in favor of MoM for a loss of 12 shields. That would fix our happiness problem there fully. Alternates are Oracle in 8 or Pyramids in 18. Pyramids have 6 competitors. Perhaps change Boston to MoM?
- Atlanta GLight in 50, with 3 competitors, but 50 turns away still. Cascade may kill us here.

Here's the map...

 

[RowAndLive]

Here's the save.

 

[jb1964]

Very nice exploration and a good set of turns.

Elmarae's up if she's up for playing at this time.

 

[Elmarae]

Can't play it for at least 24 hours so if you can take it before then jb I'll swap with you, otherwise I'll play it tomorrow.

 

[jb1964]

I'll swap w/ you as I have the time and am itching for a game.

 

[jb1964]

Turn 0 – 750 BC
MoM will take care of happiness in Washington but nowhere else. I’ve never built it before. Oracle would be better if it wasn’t on the verge of becoming obsolete. If we stick w/ the Pyramids the other civs will likely cascade to the GLib or Great Wall as I imagine Literature will be known within the next 18 turns. Alternately, we could finish Rep in 6 turns, revolt, and research Literature in ~7 turns. We would then be ~5 turns away from finishing either the Pyramids or the GLib. Another permutation would be to get MoM and then pre-build for the GL. With the added happiness I think we would have a nice Wonder city. Since growth is not a problem I’m advocating going after MoM and then GL.

Thoughts?

Fish Island has the advantage of the fish, a nice defensible hill, a forest and only one marsh tile to be cleared. However, Jungle Island has more habitable space.

Too bad we don’t have any horses to sell to Catherine. I hear she’s fond of them.

 

[rrau]

I'd like the GL just because with such a small starting island, I'm not sure how well we'll be able to research into the MA and IA

 

[DJMGator13]

At emporer level the Great Library is only going to have a limited life also especially with our variant of no early wars, so I think it might be better to stick to the Pyramid, unless we want to slow the build down and try for the Hanging Gardens. I rarely build Oracle and MoM myself so those don't sound like good options to me.

 

[jb1964]

Turn 0 – 750 BC
MoM will take care of happiness in Washington but nowhere else. I’ve never built it before. Oracle would be better if it wasn’t on the verge of becoming obsolete. If we stick w/ the Pyramids the other civs will likely cascade to the GLib or Great Wall as I imagine Literature will be known within the next 18 turns. Alternately, we could finish Rep in 6 turns, revolt, and research Literature in ~7 turns. We would then be ~5 turns away from finishing either the Pyramids or the GLib. Another permutation would be to get MoM and then pre-build for the GL. With the added happiness I think we would have a nice Wonder city. Since growth is not a problem I’m advocating going after MoM and then GL.

Fish Island has the advantage of the fish, a nice defensible hill, a forest and only one marsh tile to be cleared. However, Jungle Island has more habitable space.

Too bad we don’t have any horses to sell to Catherine. I hear she’s fond of them.

OK, after some input we’ll hang onto the Pyramid build and see if the opportunity to get the GL ever presents itself. We’re ahead in tech and can’t spend what we have fast enough. Some entertainment would be nice to increase production for settlers and galleys.

IBT: Oracle built in Lisbon. Cascades follow.

Turn 1 – 730 AD
Whip three temples. That'll make 'em happy.
Up entertainment to 20% and cut time off both wonder builds and MM for production.
I didn’t make any trades and it seems the other "players" don’t know each other.
Build embassies in Russia and Byzantium. Theo is 34 turns away from the Pyramids. .

IBT: Cathy’s not happy about our incursion into her waters. Bummer.
Theo finishes the MoM.

Turn 2 – 710 AD: Nothing

IBT: We lose a curragh. It saves us a gpt.

Turn 3 – 690 AD: Nothing
Turn 4 – 670 AD: Nothing
Turn 5 – 650 AD: Nothing
Turn 6 – 630 AD: Nothing

IBT: Republic comes in and we set our sites on Polytheism. [Note: I could have sworn I selected Literature but when I checked how this build was going on turn 8 I found that the GL wasn't going to be available anytime soon. ] I’m not revolting (actually I'm personnaly revolting at times but that's another topic) at this time as we have only 25% corruption and the MP’s are doing us a nice favor at the moment keeping the wonder cities civil. (we need a cop imodicon)

Turn 7 – 610 AD: Nothing

IBT: We loose a galley that dropped off a settler on Jungle Island.

Turn 8 – 590 AD
Found Buffalo on Jungle Island. The population immediately sets about clearing jungle to make a hocky rink.
We trade Philo to Scandihoovia and Russia for a sum total of 225g.
Found embassies in Scandinavia and Russia.
Trondheim is 5 turns from completing the Pyramids and we're 6 turns away while starving the population. We’re going to miss out on the Pyramids with no place to park our sheilds unless we gift Republic to them. So be it.

Turn 9 – 570 AD: Nothing
Scandinavia’s in Anarchy.

Turn 10 – 550 AD
We build a embassy in Persia and find that they're only 3 turns away and we're still 4 turns out. Time to gift them Republic as well. Anarchy ensues.

Notes:
Our workers are about out of things to do until it's time to chop. We might want to join one or two to the GLight build to bring that in more quickly. I don't think any of our opponents building the pyramids where doing it in a coastal city.
Our land seems superior to our neighbors. Just saying.
I built galleys like they were going out of style to sail the seven seas to find the Dutch and populate the available nooks and crannies.
I never did a cost/benefit analysis of gifting Republic to two civs vs. the loss of 400 sheilds (minus one turn and the number dumped into a token build) but I just hated the thought of losing this by a single turn (11 sheilds).

 

[jb1964]

Elmarae, please tell us you're in good health.