R&L03 The Lost Dutchman's Mine (C3C)
- Thread starter RowAndLive
- Start date
Well the turns went by rather quickly, I took some notes and then abandoned then closed notepad without saving.
Mainly it was just exploring, chopping some forests to build barracks, noticed that our iron was unconnected and thought that we are going for the build lots of warriors > upgrade path so built alot of warriors.
We built the pyramids, there were some cascades to Lighthouse and Zeus. A few turns later Russia built the temple of Zeus. Someone built the Lighthouse so I changed Atlanta to Temple of Artemis, that can be changed to Forbidden palace or Great Library when we discover Literature (6 turns).
I built a few settlers, with the idea to settle the jungle island (ICS) and the fish island north of there. A Byzantine Dromon appeared in Buffalo, so I think the AI is either going to attack or settle. If settle then there is likely a resource on Jungle island that we can't see yet. That would be rubber in my mind, I can't think of another resource that appears in Jungle.
I was considering using ship chaining to get the settlers across the 4 tile strait between homeland and jungle land. But didn't because I wasn't sure of the groups feeling on it, whether it is an exploit or not.
Roster: (FULL)
- RowAndLive
- DJMGator13
- jb1964 -
- Elmarae - just done
- Iroquois Plisken - UP
- rrau -
Mainly it was just exploring, chopping some forests to build barracks, noticed that our iron was unconnected and thought that we are going for the build lots of warriors > upgrade path so built alot of warriors.
We built the pyramids, there were some cascades to Lighthouse and Zeus. A few turns later Russia built the temple of Zeus. Someone built the Lighthouse so I changed Atlanta to Temple of Artemis, that can be changed to Forbidden palace or Great Library when we discover Literature (6 turns).
I built a few settlers, with the idea to settle the jungle island (ICS) and the fish island north of there. A Byzantine Dromon appeared in Buffalo, so I think the AI is either going to attack or settle. If settle then there is likely a resource on Jungle island that we can't see yet. That would be rubber in my mind, I can't think of another resource that appears in Jungle.
I was considering using ship chaining to get the settlers across the 4 tile strait between homeland and jungle land. But didn't because I wasn't sure of the groups feeling on it, whether it is an exploit or not.
Roster: (FULL)
- RowAndLive
- DJMGator13
- jb1964 -
- Elmarae - just done
- Iroquois Plisken - UP
- rrau -
IroquoisPlisken
Brigadier Idiot
Got it.
I don't see how the ToA would help much, since we're on an island, so I'll switch to the Great Library, most likely.
And I don't have a problem with ship chaining, but if no one responds by the time I play, I won't do it.
I don't see how the ToA would help much, since we're on an island, so I'll switch to the Great Library, most likely.
And I don't have a problem with ship chaining, but if no one responds by the time I play, I won't do it.
DJMGator13
Still breathing
I frequently do ship chaining, it's much easier in PTW and C3C because you can name the ships and it helps you to find the correct one. But I play games both ways, so I'll leave the decision up to Row since it's his game 
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
Do the ship chain.
BTW, did anyone out there have any angst over my gifting of Rep to secure the pyramids?
BTW, did anyone out there have any angst over my gifting of Rep to secure the pyramids?
IroquoisPlisken
Brigadier Idiot
Wasn't able to play today, but I can tomorrow afternoon.
I guess I'll do the ship chain, unless Row doesn't want me to.
I guess I'll do the ship chain, unless Row doesn't want me to.
RowAndLive
RAMMING SPEED!
I try to avoid it myself, but don't mind in this case. I'll leave it to the players' discression.
Out of play until end of week.
Out of play until end of week.
IroquoisPlisken
Brigadier Idiot
Pre-turn Why have we not revolted yet? I cant remember the reason, but Im sure there must have been one. Are we waiting until the Great Library comes in?
Move the warrior that was for some reason fortified on a mountain to San Francisco, and move a warrior from there to Miami as MP. Drop Science to 70%, Lit still due in 4, but only 8gpt now, instead of 13.
Now for a tough decision:
Atlanta could be switched to the FP for the loss of one shield, or we could wait and build the Great Library. We are only losing 18 gold to corruption so far, but we are keeping up with the tech race, so its not like we NEED the Great Library. The ToA takes 500 shields, and is 34 turns away from completion (with a little MM, anyway). The Great Library is 400 shields, so it will be even less than that. From my calculations, the Great Library will take 20 turns to complete. Thats a long time where someone could steal it from us. But if were going to upgrade all these warriors, we will need gold, so I choose the Great Library.
IBT Russians are building ToA. The Byzantine Dromon heads toward the fish island we may be too late.
330 (1) Chicago barracks->warrior. San Fran barracks->warrior. Not much. Moved two settler/warrior pairs into galleys.
IBT Spot a Portuguese galley head towards the fish island too. Theres GOT to be a resource there. Persians are building ToA.
310 (2) Washington warrior->warrior. Philly warrior->cat. Send one settler towards Buffalo using ship chaining. Move Science back to 60%, Lit still due in 2, -7gpt.
290 (3) San Fran warrior->warrior. Miami warrior->cat (why was it building a warrior if it doesnt have a barracks?). The galley that used to have the settler and warrior in it sinks
The Byzantines must have built Naissus last turn on the fish island which covers the entire island!
I guess Ill send the settler by Buffalo to the space above St. Louis thats still available. Theres really no other place to settle, except for the tundra island the Russians have already started settling. We could send a suicide galley to the north of the fish island. There is most likely more land up there.
IBT Lit->Currency. I start at 40%, which is the max we can have before making negative gold. Due in 26 @ +5gpt. Vikings are building ToA.
270 (4) Washington warrior->warrior. Houston galley->harbor. I will send this new galley with a settler over to Portugal, because it looks sort of like they havent settled it all hey, its worth a try, right? Switch to the Great Library, due in 19 turns (hm, some pretty good estimation, eh?
).
IBT Russia declares war on the Dutch does that mean we can declare war, now? *reread rules* Oh, nope, not until the second AI war, or until we are declared on did we ever decide which? The Byzantines are building The Great Wall.
250 (5) Washington warrior->library. Boston barracks->library. San Fran warrior->court. All those builds can be changed.
Found Detroit north of St. Louis on the jungle island ->worker.
230 (6) New York barracks->library. Philly cat->cat. Chicago warrior->warrior. Join 4 workers into Chicago to bring it to size 6, and 1 into San Fran also making it 6. Do we want to send the rest up to the jungle island?
Coast tiles continue off the north end of the Dutch island. May be land.
Move Science up to 50%. Shave 6 turns off currency, and were only at 3gpt.
IBT Portuguese are building the Great Wall. Portugal now has Currency. I think some trading is in order
210 (7) Trade Portugal Poly and 89 gold for Currency. Trade Netherlands Poly for 103 gold. And trade Byzantines Poly and Currency for Construction and 4 gold. I tried getting Spices from Theo, too, but she wanted either another tech, or 2 luxes.
We are now in the Middle Ages! Start on Feudalism (if someone else gets the Great Library, we might as well have Sun Tzus to fall back on). Theo got Mono for her free tech, so Im not going to start on that.
Send another settler up to the jungle island with ship chaining. This can be our suicide galley.
Since the Hittites are the only ones without Poly, I gift it to them (he only had 2 gold). Might as well have one friend.
IBT Byzantines send some galleys towards Portugal, so I doubt therell be any land left when I get there, but Ill keep going. Portuguese, Hittites, and Byzantines are building ToA. The galley that used to have the settler in it sinks.
190 (8) Chicago warrior->market. Build an embassy in Amsterdam for 63 gold. Size 7, 7spt with a sword every 4 turns, 16fpt, 50% Sci, 50% tax, 4 spears (1 vet, rest reg) and a sword. 1 Iron, 2 Horse, and 2 Wines. Theres still a lot of jungle and marsh around the city. We now have embassies with everyone.
170 (9) Philly cat->market. Miami cat->court. Not much else.
150 (10) The galley heading towards Portugal discovers that there is some room to settle not much, but its something. Do we want to settle in such a small area on another continent? The galley east of Naissus will be the suicide galley if we want to do that. Another galley is off the coast of Seattle, which has a settler in it that can be sent either to the Russian tundra island, or there are a few tiles open on Russian mainland.
I didnt know if we wanted to build so many cats, but if not, they can be disbanded in other cities to rush some productions.
The Great Library is due in 13, but Im starting to doubt well get it. If we dont trade Literature theres a good chance we will, but if the AIs get a hold of it, with all the prebuilds started, theres little chance. The FP and the Great Wall both need just 1 turn. We are up to 29 corruption, so the FP is looking better and better.
When do we want to revolt (or was I supposed to revolt)? Most likely after we get the Great Library (or whatever it ends up being ).
Move the warrior that was for some reason fortified on a mountain to San Francisco, and move a warrior from there to Miami as MP. Drop Science to 70%, Lit still due in 4, but only 8gpt now, instead of 13.
Now for a tough decision:
Atlanta could be switched to the FP for the loss of one shield, or we could wait and build the Great Library. We are only losing 18 gold to corruption so far, but we are keeping up with the tech race, so its not like we NEED the Great Library. The ToA takes 500 shields, and is 34 turns away from completion (with a little MM, anyway). The Great Library is 400 shields, so it will be even less than that. From my calculations, the Great Library will take 20 turns to complete. Thats a long time where someone could steal it from us. But if were going to upgrade all these warriors, we will need gold, so I choose the Great Library.
IBT Russians are building ToA. The Byzantine Dromon heads toward the fish island we may be too late.
330 (1) Chicago barracks->warrior. San Fran barracks->warrior. Not much. Moved two settler/warrior pairs into galleys.
IBT Spot a Portuguese galley head towards the fish island too.
Theres GOT to be a resource there. Persians are building ToA.310 (2) Washington warrior->warrior. Philly warrior->cat. Send one settler towards Buffalo using ship chaining. Move Science back to 60%, Lit still due in 2, -7gpt.
290 (3) San Fran warrior->warrior. Miami warrior->cat (why was it building a warrior if it doesnt have a barracks?). The galley that used to have the settler and warrior in it sinks
The Byzantines must have built Naissus last turn on the fish island which covers the entire island!
I guess Ill send the settler by Buffalo to the space above St. Louis thats still available. Theres really no other place to settle, except for the tundra island the Russians have already started settling. We could send a suicide galley to the north of the fish island. There is most likely more land up there.IBT Lit->Currency. I start at 40%, which is the max we can have before making negative gold. Due in 26 @ +5gpt. Vikings are building ToA.
270 (4) Washington warrior->warrior. Houston galley->harbor. I will send this new galley with a settler over to Portugal, because it looks sort of like they havent settled it all hey, its worth a try, right? Switch to the Great Library, due in 19 turns (hm, some pretty good estimation, eh?
).IBT Russia declares war on the Dutch does that mean we can declare war, now? *reread rules* Oh, nope, not until the second AI war, or until we are declared on did we ever decide which? The Byzantines are building The Great Wall.
250 (5) Washington warrior->library. Boston barracks->library. San Fran warrior->court. All those builds can be changed.
Found Detroit north of St. Louis on the jungle island ->worker.
230 (6) New York barracks->library. Philly cat->cat. Chicago warrior->warrior. Join 4 workers into Chicago to bring it to size 6, and 1 into San Fran also making it 6. Do we want to send the rest up to the jungle island?
Coast tiles continue off the north end of the Dutch island. May be land.
Move Science up to 50%. Shave 6 turns off currency, and were only at 3gpt.
IBT Portuguese are building the Great Wall. Portugal now has Currency. I think some trading is in order
210 (7) Trade Portugal Poly and 89 gold for Currency. Trade Netherlands Poly for 103 gold. And trade Byzantines Poly and Currency for Construction and 4 gold. I tried getting Spices from Theo, too, but she wanted either another tech, or 2 luxes.
We are now in the Middle Ages! Start on Feudalism (if someone else gets the Great Library, we might as well have Sun Tzus to fall back on). Theo got Mono for her free tech, so Im not going to start on that.
Send another settler up to the jungle island with ship chaining. This can be our suicide galley.
Since the Hittites are the only ones without Poly, I gift it to them (he only had 2 gold). Might as well have one friend.
IBT Byzantines send some galleys towards Portugal, so I doubt therell be any land left when I get there, but Ill keep going. Portuguese, Hittites, and Byzantines are building ToA. The galley that used to have the settler in it sinks.
190 (8) Chicago warrior->market. Build an embassy in Amsterdam for 63 gold. Size 7, 7spt with a sword every 4 turns, 16fpt, 50% Sci, 50% tax, 4 spears (1 vet, rest reg) and a sword. 1 Iron, 2 Horse, and 2 Wines. Theres still a lot of jungle and marsh around the city. We now have embassies with everyone.
170 (9) Philly cat->market. Miami cat->court. Not much else.
150 (10) The galley heading towards Portugal discovers that there is some room to settle not much, but its something. Do we want to settle in such a small area on another continent? The galley east of Naissus will be the suicide galley if we want to do that. Another galley is off the coast of Seattle, which has a settler in it that can be sent either to the Russian tundra island, or there are a few tiles open on Russian mainland.
I didnt know if we wanted to build so many cats, but if not, they can be disbanded in other cities to rush some productions.
The Great Library is due in 13, but Im starting to doubt well get it. If we dont trade Literature theres a good chance we will, but if the AIs get a hold of it, with all the prebuilds started, theres little chance. The FP and the Great Wall both need just 1 turn. We are up to 29 corruption, so the FP is looking better and better.
When do we want to revolt (or was I supposed to revolt)? Most likely after we get the Great Library (or whatever it ends up being ).
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
Nice set of turns. Stay in Despot for now and hold out for GL to save the gold for upgrades. I think that's a good call on your part. If we don't get it then we have a slightly overpriced FP. Big deal.
I would settle on the other land and rush culture. See if we can push 'em back.
I would settle on the other land and rush culture. See if we can push 'em back.
RowAndLive
RAMMING SPEED!
Roster:
- RowAndLive - On Deck
- DJMGator13
- jb1964 -
- Elmarae -
- Iroquois Plisken - just done
- rrau - UP
- RowAndLive - On Deck
- DJMGator13
- jb1964 -
- Elmarae -
- Iroquois Plisken - just done
- rrau - UP
preflight (150bc)
debark settler onto Portugese island. If they DoW on us for too aggressive of settlement, we can start our world conquest.
turn 1 (130bc)
settle New Orleans => temple
turn 2 (110bc)
not much
turn 3 (90bc)
not much
turn 4 (70bc)
Where's the wars?
turn 5 (50bc)
not much
turn 6 (30bc)
not much
turn 7 (10bc)
not much
turn 8 (10ad)
ibt: lost a settler in a suicide galley
turn 9 (30ad)
not much
turn 10 (50ad)
We might be able to send the settler in the galley over to pinch grapes from Russia...just about have enough galleys to do a ship chain, I think.
debark settler onto Portugese island. If they DoW on us for too aggressive of settlement, we can start our world conquest.
turn 1 (130bc)
settle New Orleans => temple
turn 2 (110bc)
not much
turn 3 (90bc)
not much
turn 4 (70bc)
Where's the wars?
turn 5 (50bc)
not much
turn 6 (30bc)
not much
turn 7 (10bc)
not much
turn 8 (10ad)
ibt: lost a settler in a suicide galley
turn 9 (30ad)
not much
turn 10 (50ad)
We might be able to send the settler in the galley over to pinch grapes from Russia...just about have enough galleys to do a ship chain, I think.
RowAndLive
RAMMING SPEED!
Acknowledged. I'm taking the kids to their first circus tonight, leaving the wife some time to recover in peace, and can play over the weekend.
EDIT
Sunday AM - Got it.
EDIT
Sunday AM - Got it.
RowAndLive
RAMMING SPEED!
50AD 0
4th in score behind Rus, Dutch & Portuguese. 2nd in culture, 3rd in power.
See potential bi-directional trade with friendly Byz. Peace with all.
Russia & Portugal cautious, Dutch annoyed, Viks gracious, other polite.
Feudalism due in 8.
Byz up Mono, down Lit. Will give spices +1gpt +79g for silks + dyes.
Persia & Viks are down Lit, up Monarchy + Engineering.
Portugal down Lit.
Russia down Lit + Currency.
Netherlands down Lit + Currency + Construction.
Hittites down Math + Lit + Republic.
Cant get either Mono or Eng, but will get GLib in 3 (not 13), and so Eng. Hope Byz will wait to trade Mono.
Sell currency to Russia for 21g becomes polite. Dont sell to Dutch. Keep Lit exclusive.
Washington at = happiness, grow in 4, temple in 5, MM for +2 gpt, still looking.
San Fran at =, grow in 6. Houston & Miami at =, no growth.
IBT: Seattle galley > warrior. Hittite volcano erupts.
70 1
movin.
IBT: Neth & Rus sign peace.
Phily market > warrior, Houston harbor > library.
Rus begin HG, Dutch begin ToA.
90 2
Galley sees 5 Rus swords in border area with Dutch head there with settler to pillage swamp tiles!
Found another shallows area N of fish island.
Portugal still down Lit, 15g, 1 extra horse, 1 ivory, 2 incense.
Persia 9 cities, 9g, down Lit, up Monarchy, Mono, Eng, 1 extra fur.
Russia 15 cities, 46g, down Lit, up Monarchy & Mono.
9 cities, 4g, 1 extra fur, down Lit, up Monarchy & Eng.
Byz 11 cities, 10g, 3 extra spices, down Lit, up Mono.
Dutch 14 cities, 2g, 1 extra wine, 1 extra horse, down Lit, Curr & Constr
Hittites 4 cities, 29g, 1 extra ivory, down Math, Lit, Republic.
IBT: Russia polite, but demands Lit no. They declare & begin GWall.
LET THE GAMES BEGIN! 
Just as we were about to cross our settler over too.
War happiness alleviates our riot risk in Washington.
We complete GLib. Atlanta > warrior. Chicago market > warrior.
110 3
Sell Currency to the Dutch for MA vs Russia + 9g. Netherlands declares & goes polite.
Sell Lit to Persians for MA vs Russia + 4gpt + 14g. Persia declares.
Sell Lit to Portugal for 36g + 11gpt.
Byz only offer 21g, Viks 9g.
Feudalism due in 4 > MM to 3 turns @ -2gpt.
Need to see about hooking up iron. Workers to San Fran.
IBT: We learn Mono, Monarchy & Engineering.
Dutch demand we leave we agree.
Phily warrior > warrior.
Galley N of fish island is lost on sea tile.
130 - 4
galley sees more bare land E of Ultrech.
2 galleys, 1 settler, 3 warriors head for Russian ice island.
IBT: Feudalism > Invention.
Sweet! See 2 Rus workers on ice island.
Washington temple > warrior, Atlanta warrior > warrior, Chicago warrior > warrior, Seattle warrior > warrior, Detroit worker > warrior.
Portugal completes GWall in Lisbon, begin Suns. Viks & Byz begin ToA. Byz begin Suns.
Questions:
- Invention, Chiv or Theology?
- About to found on Iceland & grab 2 slaves. 4 galleys in immediate vicinity. Target cities?
- I favor markets over Libs. Opinion?
- Rus at war with US, Persia, Dutch. Killed Dutch rep BTW.
- Anyone favor Byz spices for silks + dyes?
Will check in tomorrow, and then finish tomorrow night.
4th in score behind Rus, Dutch & Portuguese. 2nd in culture, 3rd in power.
See potential bi-directional trade with friendly Byz. Peace with all.
Russia & Portugal cautious, Dutch annoyed, Viks gracious, other polite.
Feudalism due in 8.
Byz up Mono, down Lit. Will give spices +1gpt +79g for silks + dyes.
Persia & Viks are down Lit, up Monarchy + Engineering.
Portugal down Lit.
Russia down Lit + Currency.
Netherlands down Lit + Currency + Construction.
Hittites down Math + Lit + Republic.
Cant get either Mono or Eng, but will get GLib in 3 (not 13), and so Eng. Hope Byz will wait to trade Mono.
Sell currency to Russia for 21g becomes polite. Dont sell to Dutch. Keep Lit exclusive.
Washington at = happiness, grow in 4, temple in 5, MM for +2 gpt, still looking.
San Fran at =, grow in 6. Houston & Miami at =, no growth.
IBT: Seattle galley > warrior. Hittite volcano erupts.
70 1
movin.
IBT: Neth & Rus sign peace.
Phily market > warrior, Houston harbor > library.
Rus begin HG, Dutch begin ToA.
90 2
Galley sees 5 Rus swords in border area with Dutch head there with settler to pillage swamp tiles!
Found another shallows area N of fish island.
Portugal still down Lit, 15g, 1 extra horse, 1 ivory, 2 incense.
Persia 9 cities, 9g, down Lit, up Monarchy, Mono, Eng, 1 extra fur.
Russia 15 cities, 46g, down Lit, up Monarchy & Mono.
9 cities, 4g, 1 extra fur, down Lit, up Monarchy & Eng.Byz 11 cities, 10g, 3 extra spices, down Lit, up Mono.
Dutch 14 cities, 2g, 1 extra wine, 1 extra horse, down Lit, Curr & Constr
Hittites 4 cities, 29g, 1 extra ivory, down Math, Lit, Republic.
IBT: Russia polite, but demands Lit no. They declare & begin GWall.
LET THE GAMES BEGIN!
Just as we were about to cross our settler over too.
War happiness alleviates our riot risk in Washington.
We complete GLib. Atlanta > warrior. Chicago market > warrior.
110 3
Sell Currency to the Dutch for MA vs Russia + 9g. Netherlands declares & goes polite.
Sell Lit to Persians for MA vs Russia + 4gpt + 14g. Persia declares.
Sell Lit to Portugal for 36g + 11gpt.
Byz only offer 21g, Viks 9g.
Feudalism due in 4 > MM to 3 turns @ -2gpt.
Need to see about hooking up iron. Workers to San Fran.
IBT: We learn Mono, Monarchy & Engineering.
Dutch demand we leave we agree.
Phily warrior > warrior.
Galley N of fish island is lost on sea tile.
130 - 4
galley sees more bare land E of Ultrech.
2 galleys, 1 settler, 3 warriors head for Russian ice island.
IBT: Feudalism > Invention.
Sweet! See 2 Rus workers on ice island.
Washington temple > warrior, Atlanta warrior > warrior, Chicago warrior > warrior, Seattle warrior > warrior, Detroit worker > warrior.
Portugal completes GWall in Lisbon, begin Suns. Viks & Byz begin ToA. Byz begin Suns.
Questions:
- Invention, Chiv or Theology?
- About to found on Iceland & grab 2 slaves. 4 galleys in immediate vicinity. Target cities?
- I favor markets over Libs. Opinion?
- Rus at war with US, Persia, Dutch. Killed Dutch rep BTW.
- Anyone favor Byz spices for silks + dyes?
Will check in tomorrow, and then finish tomorrow night.
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
RowAndLive said:IBT: Russia polite, but demands Lit no. They declare & begin GWall.
LET THE GAMES BEGIN!
@rrau, you got your wish!
Answers:
Leo's & LB's, Kights, or Cathedrals?
I wouldn't research towards Education. Let the other civs get us there.
I would vote for Invention.
I'm not sure what your second bullet is asking.
Markets.
You just can't trust the Dutch.
I normally like to trade techs for luxuries and make my opponent pay for happiness. Then again, it's probably a more cost effective to swap the luxuries for luxuries.
lurker's comment:
Anytime you can trade resources for resources, or resources for hard cash, or resources for tech, do it. Trading hard goods for resources or credit is a tougher call as those "liars and cheats" can take the goodies than open hostilities.
Anytime you can trade resources for resources, or resources for hard cash, or resources for tech, do it. Trading hard goods for resources or credit is a tougher call as those "liars and cheats" can take the goodies than open hostilities.
RowAndLive
RAMMING SPEED!
Thanks, Bede. I wasn't clear enough. I was being situational in this instance. Given that we just built the GLib, there's really no need to trade for a tech ATM. I thought perhaps someone had an idea on attacking the Byz soon, thus the question.
Additional question - I was planning on saving the revolt until after the war. Or should I dispose of it now (pending a review of builds) during the war, relying on the sword upgrades to carry us through? Then, does anyone have a feel for Feudalism as a government versus Monarchy? I've never tried Feudalism.
Additional question - I was planning on saving the revolt until after the war. Or should I dispose of it now (pending a review of builds) during the war, relying on the sword upgrades to carry us through? Then, does anyone have a feel for Feudalism as a government versus Monarchy? I've never tried Feudalism.
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