Railroads

Yeah, in Civ III one of the classic techniques was train a bunch of Cavalry, let your neighbor build rails across their lands (give them coal or iron for free if they don't have it! it'll make it easier to conquer them!), declare war, and use the unlimited rail movement to capture half their empire in a single turn. Against a sizeable foe you typically didn't have enough Cavalry to defeat all their armies in one turn, especially because by that point they usually had Riflemen to defend, but being able to conquer your enemy's unlimited-move railroads and use them for your own benefit the same turn caused some gameplay issues.

That was probably especially unfun in multiplayer games, and even more so in non-simultaneous-turn formats, like Play by E-Mail or just plain-old sequential turns/hotseat. It's one thing if your rival surprises you with a war and takes a border city or two, it's quite another if they surprise you with a war and conquer half your empire via your own railroads before you even get a chance to respond.

I can just imagine loading up the next save in a PBEM game and seeing that someone had done that... that may well be the end of the PBEM game.

Civ IV nerfed it to 10 movement which was still considerable but still amounted to a heavy nerf of the "overwhelm the enemy using their own rails" technique.
 
Unlimited rail movement is realistic in a sense given the scales of the game, but pretty much ALL movement in civilization is unrealistically slow for gameplay reasons. Making rail movement the lone realistic element in a very unrealistic system probably isn't great.

I've played mods that make movement of ships in particular more realistic to time scales, and this means you can cross the entire ocean in a single turn. This makes gameplay very unfun... the enemy can attack you before you have any way of even knowing they're coming. Similarly, it defeats interesting strategic play if your units can effectively teleport anywhere with a rail link.
Movement Rates have to be connected to Reaction Times: if there is no time to react, movement and allowed actions are too high.

However, I could see the Modern Age take the game's Army Commanders' faster movement for Armies and apply it to any and all units moving by Railroads. With or without an Army Commander, units could be moved at the faster rates, making the mobilization and assembly of armies much faster than in the previous Ages. That would give a reason for railroads for unit movement, and also show the generally faster mobilization and preparation for war possible with railroad movement.

- And it would be another mechanic that differentiates the Ages: a real 'Blitzkrieg' would only be possible in the Modern Age.
 
Civ IV nerfed it to 10 movement which was still considerable but still amounted to a heavy nerf of the "overwhelm the enemy using their own rails" technique.

Didn't Civ 4 also have it so you couldn't use enemy rail? I still agree with this rule. There really should be no reason to use enemy rail. But yeah, I do remember using enemy rail in Civ3. Good times.
 
Didn't Civ 4 also have it so you couldn't use enemy rail? I still agree with this rule. There really should be no reason to use enemy rail. But yeah, I do remember using enemy rail in Civ3. Good times.
I think Civ 5 was the first one where you couldn't use enemy rail, but could still use enemy roads if they weren't under zone of control.

I think. It's been 8 years. :D
 
That would work
Although probably the same as for roads, it only connects to railway stations in range X…so for a transcontinental/ transsiberian railroad, lots of small towns need to be given a railroad station

And hopefully Railroads are no better than roads without a supply of coal/oil.

id railroad to have more of an impact like it did in our history.
 
Balancing speed with reaction time is absolutely critical. As is creating interesting decisions. Which is why bringing in zones of control for interdicting movement is helpful. Being able to move newly built and reserve units quickly to the front is positive from a speeding up game play perspective (and likely easier for the AI), but properly positioning border units (or border patrols for naval ships, if such patrols exist in Civ 7) should preserve interesting strategic choice and limit the potential of a surprise attack to a tolerable degree of impact.

Marrying movement speed with the limits of communication speed is also helpful. It doesn't make sense to allow sailing ships to be able to fly all over the world, not because they couldn't move that fast, but because communications to them didn't move that fast. Sailing ship speeds should reflect that you couldn't just have them instantly return home at the first sign of trouble, it took time for them to return. Railroads happened at a time when communication speed improved to be near-instantaneous. So fast movement by rail, and for airplanes, makes sense in a way that didn't make sense for earlier-era ships. All of which is less important than fun game-play considerations for how these get modelled.
 
Unlimited movement is pretty much the correct approach. Unless interdicted by an enemy unit, you should be able to move a unit unlimited hexes via friendly rail each turn. That reflects both the historical impact of railroads (armies effectively mustered at the end of their railheads) and improves gameplay: you avoid all the bogging down of moving units one hex at a time and simply flow all of your armies to where the enemy is.

I'll buy that but, with one big IF... IF... you start your turn at a railroad (this is, you have taken your time to "load" all your army in the convoy). Reaching a railroad out of a no-railroad tile should not provide further movement bonus that turn (in that case, you are just "walking" besides the railroad, not using it).
 
One important thing about movement bonuses is how this fits the rest of Civ7 changes.

One big thing we saw so far is the commander unit. And some of the commander unit features are ability to pull units together and ability to call reinforcements. I'd say if we have unlimited movement on railroads, those things are not relevant anymore, at least while you're on railroad network - it would be much easier to just move units on the railroad, than gathering them around the commander first. Reinforcements also would lose their goal within the railroad network.

So if Firaxis wants to keep "easy to move units" feature of commanders (I really hope this will make moving units actually easier, not harder), there will be no unlimited movement. Or the railroad network will be somehow limited, like no railroads to neighbors.
 
One important thing about movement bonuses is how this fits the rest of Civ7 changes.

One big thing we saw so far is the commander unit. And some of the commander unit features are ability to pull units together and ability to call reinforcements. I'd say if we have unlimited movement on railroads, those things are not relevant anymore, at least while you're on railroad network - it would be much easier to just move units on the railroad, than gathering them around the commander first. Reinforcements also would lose their goal within the railroad network.

So if Firaxis wants to keep "easy to move units" feature of commanders (I really hope this will make moving units actually easier, not harder), there will be no unlimited movement. Or the railroad network will be somehow limited, like no railroads to neighbors.
I could see a railroads give you railroad station->next nearby station movement (if the path is unblocked and less than 6?8?10) tiles away in one move, (with a max of. 2 moves.)
 
How it worked in Humankind was interesting, with each railroad "node" costing 1 movement point and connecting to nearby stations. Here it's different since there are no territories, though. In any case, it shouldn't create interface hassle of button clicking like airlifting does.
 
Yeah, pretty sure Civ4 didn't let you use roads or rails in enemy territory. Apart from units with the top tier promotion "commando" which was insanely powerful.

I think having roads be 1/2 movement base, 1/3 with "Roman" roads and then 1/5 with cars; while railroads start as a 1/10th and maybe go up to 1/15th with electricity (or later as maglev) is about right for balancing speed with reaction time. As with Civ4 foreign roads/rails shouldn't give you a speed boost. But it would be fair if they still reduced movement cost to 1 in rough terrain (can't remember if Civ4 did that).
For the others who haven't played Civ3, for the record, it did not let you use roads/rails in enemy territory either. But as soon as it became your territory...

I would like to see some evolution of rails as you mention - it's always seemed a bit odd that 1840s level steam rail and modern rail are essentially the same... although to be fair from a freight standpoint, trains don't really travel much faster now than they did 50 or even 80 years ago, just more efficiently in terms of fuel and labor. But 1840 to 1950 was a world of difference in tractive power and speed.

They often do! Perhaps taxpayers and shareholders are most cost conscious than before, but I can think of many recent museums or cultural spaces, or even airports, designed with beauty in mind in the last few decades. They appear rare because of multiple cognitive biases happening at the same time.

Firstly there's a survival bias: old ugly buildings haven't survived until now, so we only get too see the old buildings that people deliberately kept around, and forget that they're not representative of all old buildings. Secondly those old buildings are not all equally old, but we're subconsciously compressing them all into the same time period, which exacerbates that (false) impression that highly decorated grandiose buildings were the norm. Lastly there's the fact that when such buildings are new, or on going, we have their cost in mind - both financial and from expropriating the land and from demolishing what was there before - and these sully our ability to appreciate their beauty.
There is some survival bias: The grand union terminal I travel through replaced over 2000, presumably mostly much uglier, buildings when it was built.

I'd be curious what some of the modern examples of buildings built with beauty in mind are, that aren't renovations of older buildings. I'm sure there are some, but... the only one that comes to mind right away for me, that I know is fairly modern, is the building for the Craftsmen's Guild of Mississippi, northeast of Jackson, which opened in 2007. Especially from the back and on the inside, it's an impressive building, but it's also intentionally designed of artists and craftsmen and to show off their work, so it makes sense that it would have some care put into appearance. I would probably spend all my money there if I owned a house within convenient driving distance. I'm sure there are more

I think there was more of a focus on beauty in the early 1900s though - the City Beautiful movement, which built upon the Beaux-Arts movement. The level of detail and decoration seen then just is not seen in hardly any post-war buildings, unless they are reconstructions of or expansions to pre-war buildings. After Art Deco, the Great Depression hit, then the war, and IMO the focus on beautiful public spaces or buildings never really came back. True, there are some historic districts that have kept their character and require similar character for new buildings, but the focus on beautiful buildings and belief that creating a beautiful public environment would enrich the quality of life for everyone seems to be a distinctly pre-war practice, IMO.

This could be something that Civ VII tries to model a bit more when it comes to cultural victories. IMO, Civ has historically been pretty wonder-focused in that realm (Civ3's 100K victory somewhat excepted), but one could make a decent argument that cities like Paris and Prague benefit greatly from a cultural standpoint from all their beautiful-but-not-world-wonder buildings. A policy card that makes buildings 25% expensive but adds +2 tourism per newly-constructed non-military building? Or whatever the equivalent in VII would be.
 
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Maybe there will be rails outside those station tiles after all...
 
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