Railways?

All railways in the world wouldn'd have increased production without factories taking advantage of the increased transportation capacity. Factories, however, are part of the game.

Not really, increased production of factories are only one part of the increase of the transportation capacity. I first mention about railways transport goods, persons, food, postal deliveries not only coal to the factories. There was not only a production boost also an enormously city growing and an economic boost while the Establishment of Railway Companies.

The building-costs of Railway are just to high that they can upgrade automatically. This could be represented by the need of workers and their working time per tile in game. This was the way the Civ games always did it. It was not perfect but omit it entirely is nothing.

Nevertheless, I would also like to have a game mechanic dedicated to railroads implemented. They definitely should be built actively (tile by tile or by connecting one city with another by a single command, where each linkage consumes the unit).

Yes it should be build actively. There was another game the name was Call to Power long time ago, maybe it was better then Civ3, and it has no workers at all. But you had to build your infrastructure with gold. Some gamers like this way some other do not. But anyway it was necessary to build the railways tile by tile.

Such huge infrastructure projects are enormously and a big decision for the government or company. It costs a lot and has to be very well planed. You actually see it in connection with the build of three/four-lane highways.
In the railway construction, the difficulties were even greater.

Maybe dedicated railroads are simply not needed any more, as all their effects are covered by other game mechanics.

As I wrote before the current non-implementation did not work in game, if one Civ has reached the era with railways and another Civ not and a city is conquered, it should switch the nature of the infrastructure back and forth. That makes no sense to me.
 
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Maybe railroads are being saved for an expansion. What if we can own different rail companies... *dun, dun, dun*

I could see rails as a means to further spread amenities during the late game. You know, to represent shipping.

Yeah I'm happy railroads aren't in, if only for the chance they'll be developed more on an expansion besides being a graphical enhancement. Having railroads be tied to certain rail companies or corporations and help of spreading ammenities more efficiently would be great. Could even be tied to colonization in an hyphothetical expansion.
Heck a train central or shipping central district could probably have its own district.
 
Heck a train central or shipping central district could probably have its own district.

This was an option I was also entertaining in my mind.

A transport district that must be built adjacent to an industrial district that modifies production and amenity values. When two cities have a transport district, the road connection between them would upgrade to a rail route instead.

Buildings for the district might include:
  • central station (bonus amenities/housing?)
  • marshaling/railyard (bonus gold/trade?)
  • warehouse/container storage(bonus when harbor district exists, additional trade routes?)
The above might provide some modders with ideas if it never becomes official!

EDIT: Potential Wonder - Trans Siberian Railroad: Claims all hexes in a rail route (the hex containing the rail improvement) running between the two most distant cities of your empire (point to point in distance).
 
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@ehecatzin @ww2commander
Nice posts! I like the idea of a rail district. We have harbor (ship), aerodrome (airplane), commercial hub (caravans?), why not a district dedicated to railways ? Grand Central Terminal as another potential wonder ?

Some guys talked about Sid Meier's railroad, sure it was not as great as Railroad Tycoon, but the graphics were nice and the dynamic system for laying the tracks was interesting. The idea to bring them back in a future expansion with corporations sounds great.

Language question: what the difference between railroads and railways?
 
humm irl, railroads, are really different from roads, so I never like the idea that roads just become railroads, what would it mean? visually it looks off, and then how does it translate to gameplay in a meaningful way too?

with railroads, you can carry a lot at a lower energy cost, but it's more expansive to set up (I think? it is more complete and precise infrastructure plus you need the vehicles as well)
it wouldn't make sense to have as many railroads as you have roads on a landscape, railroads aren't used constantly like roads, I mean there is not a vehicle on there all the time, sometimes even kinda rarely

it can give a production boost (easy fast and cheap transportation of large quantities/heavy materials ;; cheap because the way trains are fueled, and they lose less energy, its cheaper to run once its set up i think), a commerce boost (well same thing you can just ship stuff you sell more easily so you might do it instead of not, or cheaper, also since it can be state ran your state can catch some of the money when used for commerce), and irl it's also a big boost for mobility of people since you don't need to use own vehicle to travel (and it can be cheaper as well), and it produces a lot less pollution than highways. So that's where I would think of gameplay translation for railroads, production boost, gold boost, culture boost.. maybe a little boost to a lot of things that have to do with people being able to travel more easily (science culture.. and faith???lol ; I would say science & culture is nice). Let's say you have a sience boost / culture boost to a city connected to another city by railroad provided that the destination city possesses a campus / culture district. If yes, then the other town gets a science / culture boost. Otherwise just a base production / gold boost. I think, in terms of game, it should be worth establishing only as a choice and not "micromanagement" so, it should not be obvious that it is worth it. But irl, it's hard to make a good case for not having trains between two towns if they are pretty close to each other. So perhaps in civ, it can be something costly in time and resources to set up, like you have to do it tile by tile with builder, idk lol (so that you might only do it if you have the builder charges to spend for it)

also roads can't all be highways, highways have a big environmental cost

railroads just need to connect to train stations. Imo, a train station district is weird cause, it's not like a airport it doesn't actually produces that much bothering, train stations are often in city center. there is usually a neighbourhood right around the train station.. it's a urban thing really, it's another advantage of railroads, they can take you right in town cause it doesn't actually use up that much space either (vehicle stays on rails, and you need a lot less vehicle space per people). Well, if that district could have some housing to it as well or something.. or just be a building for city center. It's another thing thats not trivial with the district system, because it can be said of many districts, holy site, theater quarters, etc, many can just be in "city center" irl

well, there are many ways to make it or not make it,
but imo railroads could be interesting, but I don't like to see railroads replace roads. trains are awesome, it's public transportation, rather environment friendly, its really efficient.. a special kind of improvement with its own unique perks
(oh and f*** corporations owning railroads lol, its much better as a public service)
 
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I would miss railways purely for nostalgic reasons, but from a gameplay perspective I don't miss them. It's too much micromanagement for my tastes (unless they just automatically upgrade). And if they are going to have railways I think they need to become something else in the modern era.
 
I would miss railways purely for nostalgic reasons, but from a gameplay perspective I don't miss them. It's too much micromanagement for my tastes (unless they just automatically upgrade). And if they are going to have railways I think they need to become something else in the modern era.
I agree with you about the micromanagement, it's hard to make it nice in the game like meaningful enough so that its not too much management for this gameplay value.
However I disagree that they should become something else in modern era, because railroads and trains are a very very modern thing, they have huge perks if you compare to roads and planes. You can carry a lot more for a lot less energy basically.
 
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That's really why they are NOT in Civ6 - the Worker and road building mechanic changed.

Now that I've actually looked into it, the new system seems a lot better. Perhaps not as rewarding (emotionally or otherwise) but it's certainly more pragmatic.
 
It's better to keep things simple imo, especially since the late game already has enough micromanagement. I'd welcome a very expensive (in terms of gold maintenance) railroad that takes a builder charge to build each segment and enables infinite movement, like in the old Civ games. It would act as a good gold sink (let's face it, in all Civ games you will be swimming in money in the late game), and would work as a solution to 'carpet of doom' traffic jams like nothing else! :D
 
Now that I've actually looked into it, the new system seems a lot better. Perhaps not as rewarding (emotionally or otherwise) but it's certainly more pragmatic.

It's better to keep things simple imo, especially since the late game already has enough micromanagement. I'd welcome a very expensive (in terms of gold maintenance) railroad that takes a builder charge to build each segment and enables infinite movement, like in the old Civ games. It would act as a good gold sink (let's face it, in all Civ games you will be swimming in money in the late game), and would work as a solution to 'carpet of doom' traffic jams like nothing else! :D

Let important things out of the game is a most practical thought.
So i can play on my tablet, lie on the couch while watching TV and listen to my girlfriend.:sarcasm:

I am probably more the Expansion gamer:popcorn:
 
Not sure why you quoted my post there, buddy. That's how railroads used to work in Civ II and III, and I propose to *add* them back to the game, so it's not simplification, but more like restoring the default state. Adding complex features to the late game should be done with great caution, because throughout the game more and more stuff gets enabled, until you're swamped with busywork of all shapes and sizes. If you can think of a compelling improvement to railroads that does not add a huge amount of micromanagement, I'm all ears to hear it.
 
Language question: what the difference between railroads and railways?
Railroad is common in North America, and railway in Europe. Aside from that, there are no difference in physical characteristics.
 
I just thought of this again, it could provide amenity, and/or tourism too potentially, that would make sense.
production, gold, amenity, tourism.. I kinda dislike the word tourism because it's used mostly in a context where some establishment makes money off of travelers and attract them towards specific advertised things, so its the same as gold lol. culture is better.............................................
 
Instead of using builder charges, railroads could be build directly by a city, couldnt they? You choose a destination and then invest production in it basing on how far it is from your origin city/how the landscape is on the way. Maybe you can even choose between different routes?

Mhrm...what if a city needs a station building first? Or units can only be dropped at stations at all? (improvements)
Actually, you could make a whole expansion feature out of railroads.
 
Yeah, that would solve the micromanagement problem in a similar way as roads, just make it bit harder to select the path exactly (does it matter? different cost?). it could be a rly cool addition right? I'm thinking, it could be quite a bit of work in particular for artists? because you'd have to decide how the rails get drawn among the districts and improvements along the way? though I guess the layout is already there for roads, but there would be overlap/crossing. But anyway, it seems like there is room for interesting implementations of this in the game.
 
Yeah, that would solve the micromanagement problem in a similar way as roads, just make it bit harder to select the path exactly (does it matter? different cost?). it could be a rly cool addition right? I'm thinking, it could be quite a bit of work in particular for artists? because you'd have to decide how the rails get drawn among the districts and improvements along the way? though I guess the layout is already there for roads, but there would be overlap/crossing. But anyway, it seems like there is room for interesting implementations of this in the game.
To prevent overlap with roads, railways could try to not go the direct way, but use favourable terrain (less hills, fewest possible river crossings) or pass more districts on its way (boosting them while doing so somewhat). Or in the end, railways could just drawn seperatly from roads on the same tile :D (though I guess they need to function differently then, like, you can only move between cities/districts/military bases and cant drop off in between)
 
I'm really torn by this.

On one hand, railroads are absolutely a vital part of world history, and not including it is a big omission. I really enjoy the first part of road building and when you build your first set of rail routes connecting your big cities.

On the other hand I can see that they probably wanted to simplify the road system so as to eliminate as much micro-management as possible. And once you get past your first road routes and your first big railroad route upgrades it does get fairly tedious and mundane.

Still, I would think it would have been best to go with railroads for the final tier of road upgrades, and you could even switch the traders from steam locomotives to diesel electric in the final eras and still keep the railroad relevant. Although i admit that the graphics for a train are probably hard to scale properly vs. a truck (and even then they use more of a local delivery truck than a true 18 wheeler.)

I predict if we give Firaxis enough crap they will find a way to change it for one of the expansions.
 
Maybe railroads are being saved for an expansion. What if we can own different rail companies... *dun, dun, dun*

Would love to see railroad concessions explored in an expansion about diplomacy. City states can start bids for railroad concessions to their territory, like the projects from world congress. Winner gets diplo boost, plus percentage of gold from all trade routes to that city state. Winner uses up a trader to determine where the railroad comes from.

Would be even cooler if they create a puppet state / minor civ / vassal system and made railroad concessions apply to them too. I would really like to see some 19th century imperialism, ala Open Door / Trade Port System represented in game.
 
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