Raliuven SG1

CKS · Jul 22, 2011

creamcheese said:
How much of America should I take?

I don't think we want to take all of America. At the very least, though, we want their luxuries. If the war goes smoothly, as I expect it will, I think we should leave them with one coastal tundra town. This way we can get their techs for peace.

We are currently working on invention at a 1 scientist pace, as the best we could manage was about 20 turns. I think we can plow through America pretty quickly and get invention and perhaps education from them when we are done.

creamcheese · Jul 22, 2011

Turn Log:

Spoiler :

Purging Unbelievers from our lands:

Spoiler :

Jihad!

Spoiler :

Hand off notes:
-Some partially moved ansars for you to decide what to do with, plenty are up north, I was going to take some iro cities in the west.
-We are allied with Rome and Russia against the Iros. I only saw those first two MWs, so it is working fairly well.
-Huge Ansar force in former USA to play with. :hammer:

To the Team:
-I did not stop and ask the team about the Iroquois war, but I felt it was easily handleable. We have seen only 2 MW so far and have war happiness, so it seems to have worked out for the best.
-We have 7? lux now

, as well as most of the USA.
-Second core looks like it ought to go in former France at paris or orleans maybe? Something we need to build soon.
-Golden age is going strong, build some infra maybe?
-I seem to have been insanely lucky in our war with the US, losing by my count only 1 Ansar at the beginning of the campaign. 3 move really helps as well, enabling me to fight and redeploy with lightning speed.

Elephantium · Jul 23, 2011

creamcheese said:
Turn Log:

IBT: aaa, someone turned on the "always repeat last build" option.

That would be me. I get REALLY sick of needing to change the selection from "spearman" to something that makes sense every time a build completes.

CKS · Jul 23, 2011

The save posted isn't the correct save. It is from 350 AD rather than 450 AD.

Looks great. I'm glad the American campaign went as smoothly as it should have.

Let's leave St. Louis to the Americans in exchange for what techs they'll give us.

The Iroquois spent the last 10 turns bugging me. I kept expecting them to declare, but they never did. The French boats and the Iroquois mounted warriors are probably the cause of the strangely fortified units.

Where do we want to go after America? If Russia bails on the alliance, they'd be my first choice. Otherwise geography suggests we are looking at Carthage or Japan. Japan has samurai, so I'd go after Carthage first. If we can get rid of them before gunpowder, then we won't face strength 4 defenders both places.

creamcheese · Jul 24, 2011

CKS said:
The save posted isn't the correct save. It is from 350 AD rather than 450 AD.

I am an idiot with save files. Here it is.

I, too was looking on Russia as a good target, but we have a deal (of course them bailing would be great). I am in agreement with you on our next target(s).

Raliuven · Jul 24, 2011

I got the save. Nice set of turns, creamcheese. I have a feeling my RNG luck will quickly bring balance back to this war (and not in a good way

). I'll do my best to make good on your gains! I'll take a look at the save and post a plan of action.

Raliuven · Jul 25, 2011

450 AD

City Count [current (last count)]
Arabia: 40 (15)
Rome: 13 (11)
Iroquois: 11 (8)?
Russia: 4 (5)
Japan: 14 (8)
Carthage: 20 (16)
America: 4 (7)
France: 5 (10)

Average: 13.625 (10)
No one is even close to us.

Military
We are strong vs the Romans
We are strong vs the Iroquois (up from average)
We are strong vs Russia
We are strong vs Japan
We are weak vs Carthage
We are strong vs America
We are strong vs France

What exactly do we need to do to get average to Carthage? :crazyeye:

Governments
Rome => Republic
Iroquois => Republic
Russia => Republic
Japan => Republic
Carthage => Republic
America => Republic
France => Republic

Unit Count (73 units/0 allowed: maintenance: 73gpt)
Settlers: 2
Workers: 16
Slaves: ? (a lot)
Spears: 1
Swords: 2
Pikes: 9
Catapults: 12
Ansars: 18
MI: 13

Other Observations
After a little MM I am able to get us up to +190gpt.

America will currently give us everything they have except for Buffalo for peace [Invention, Monarchy, St Louis, Houston and 18gp]. We cant hold Houston if we take it in deal, so it would need to be disbanded immediately. After 20 turns we could then finish off America with that land they wont be growing much. I hate to spend any more of our GA on a 0% science unless we are going to pointy stick the entire game.

Rome will also offer Invention for WM, 17gpt & 30gp.
Japan will give us education for 45gpt.
Russia has Invention & Monarchy but not education. Alliance last for 14 more turns.
Carthage would give us Education for 29gpt & Ivory.
Our Peace with France is up in 4 turns.

Strategy/List of Things to Accomplish for this Set
1. Swap some core builds to marketplaces and aqueducts for fast builds during our GA.
2. Take Buffalo and Detroit by Ansar. Dont know where American capital will jump. Make peace for everything they have; if we take Houston, disband.
3. Send Ansars to take St Regis and hope that the Iroquois either destroy Russia or Russia jumps off the wagon. Make peace with the Iroquois when possible and then stage against Russia. Pursuing the war against the Iroquois is problematic because of dense jungles and lack of any infrastructure building between us and them unless we move through old Russian core (now Carthaginian land).
4. We can also start to stage against France; peace expires in 4t. Need to be carefully not to get between Carthage and Japan if a war breaks out - it does not appear they are currently at war but the log says that Carthage is moving units that way?
5. We have a few elite units that need to move forwards for leader fishing when possible.
6. Move workers/slaves inward to core to start clearing up the jungle thats strangling our core.

Thoughts:
Do we build libraries and universities for research or do we concentrate on finishing a fast conquest and hope we can keep the tech pace through the Middle Ages?

Should we build an embassy with Carthage and France just to see what they are doing? It would cost 58gp for Carthage, 28gp for France.

Elephantium · Jul 25, 2011

Well, we're going for a domination or conquest win, right? I'd say we should keep pushing hard on warfare and pick up techs in pointy-stick research. Then...

1. Take the American deal.
2. Declare on France in 4 turns. Wipe them out.
.....
3. Once the Russian alliance ends in 14 turns, go to war with Russia to fill out our 2nd and 3rd rings.
4. Get Gunpowder for peace from Russia, if possible.
5. Prune Carthage back. Get Chem for peace, if possible.

With Conquest as the goal, science isn't very important -- our goal should be cavalry (but if we can win with Ansars alone, so much the better!). Pointy stick research should get us most of the way there, so we can put our coin to use in rushing military.

Embassies ... with Carthage, go for it. With France, I wouldn't bother.

creamcheese · Jul 25, 2011

I would leave st.louis as the US' only city, it is junk and far away. A few turns to finish up that peninsula is nothing, and we have more than enough excess military to take out an ironless France (and Russia at the same time, for that matter).

I vote for infra and research until Cav, and then a world blitz. Ansars will only last until someone gets muskets, and even against pikes they are tough going. We need to boost production in our core and get at least a small amount of research capabilities going or we may get left behind. Carthage is still strong to us, and japan is a potential worry as well (and samurai are a pain in the butt).

We will want a good industrial base and researching capabilities before trying to pick off the Carthaginians. They had stacks and stacks moving around on my turns, and I don't think ansars (or maybe even cav) will be enough. We could also use an army, although I seem to remember them not being as good in PTW?

Cav armies could probably win the world for us if we can get them.

CKS · Jul 25, 2011

Get an embassy with Carthage. I think we need to move on them soon; I'd try to sign everyone in on them. If we can get Japan to make a real attack on them, Carthage will go down pretty easily.

I can go either way on America.

RedKi-rr · Jul 25, 2011

Armies are rather weak in PTW and less useful then in C3C. For example infarty army could be used only for covering artillery and for some slow pillages in the deep enemy lands.
Kngiht (Cav) army are like alone Knight (Cav) with huge hp and with blitz. It's very hard to rely on Knight armies. Cavalry armies are not great too, but they can kill 1 hp motorized infarty and to covers some troops. They are very good against riflemen and fine agaist infarty (at leat you can rely on them). IIRC Ansars also have 3 movement point. I think - Having one Ansar army could be fine, but not more.

BtW, I think Emperor could be too easy for you) I beleived you should start this game at Deity

Raliuven · Jul 25, 2011

RedKi-rr said:
Armies are rather weak in PTW and less useful then in C3C. For example infarty army could be used only for covering artillery and for some slow pillages in the deep enemy lands.
Kngiht (Cav) army are like alone Knight (Cav) with huge hp and with blitz. It's very hard to rely on Knight armies. Cavalry armies are not great too, but they can kill 1 hp motorized infarty and to covers some troops. They are very good against riflemen and fine agaist infarty (at leat you can rely on them). IIRC Ansars also have 3 movement point. I think - Having one Ansar army could be fine, but not more.

BtW, I think Emperor could be too easy for you) I beleived you should start this game at Deity

RE: REdKi-rr [offtopic]

Spoiler :

At one time I was die hard 'need an army ASAP' kind of player. At least in PTW I tend to agree that armies are rather weak. I think it was Lanzelot that once told me that armies really are not necessary below Deity (and maybe not even needed at Deity). I took that to heart. I will usually only build an army if I have nothing better to build and only after my FP/2nd core is established. Of course that does call into question how useful a 2nd core is for a fast conquest.

And if we are pitting Cav armies against mechs, then something has definitely gone wrong! :crazyeye:

I don't think this game is getting out of the early Industrial Age after the excellent warring of my teammate! :goodjob:

Thanks for all the good thoughts. I will see what shakes loose. I'm not sure we can destroy France in one shot - I think they have a city way off in Japan. But I think we can finish clearing them off the mainland and then give them peace for all they've got. They'll probably get cleaned up by Japan later.

It would be great if Carthage and Japan would start fighting. It might be worth exploring the idea of offering Japan a military alliance against Carthage for a tech or two if a war starts - but only after Carthage has sent all his knights to fight play with Samurai!

Raliuven · Jul 25, 2011

Sorry, stopped 1 turn into the game for a short discussion point.

Rome DOW on Carthage on the IBT before my first turn. I built an embassy with Carthage and they will give us Education for 10gpt if we ally with them against Rome. Rome won't give us anything worth having (of course, they don't have much anyway). That's a pretty good discount for basically doing nothing - even if Carthage doesn't destroy Rome, I doubt we'll be seeing many Romans on our borders. The added benefit is that it will keep Carthage off our backs while we destroy France and Russia.

I am inclined to ally with Carthage since we can't stop them. Let them spend some strength on Rome and shuffle knights back and forth. It is unlikely that Rome has the resources to draw in anyone against Carthage or us unless it is the French or America and the Iroquois, whom we are already at war with (or will be at war with in a few turns anyway

).

It may also open the door to pick up other techs from France for peace, though we with the Ansar's movement, maybe would could send a team up to Besancon to take the last French town.

After the early successes of the Ansars vs. Buffalo and St Regis, I am inclined to keep the war against America going until we have detroit - next round - and then making peace. I may ride the Ansars over to Centralia and dream of keeping Houston (if we get it in a trade) and then holding firm there.

The RNG is actually rather nice - I did lose an Ansar almost immediately but I have had two promotion to elite. Hopefully a GL is not too far in our future.

Carthage Embassy:

Spoiler :

Turn Log

Spoiler :

TheOverseer714 · Jul 25, 2011

I think that we need to balance military and research until cavalry, then shut off research and build tons of cavalry to win. Do the deal with America, bail out of the Iroquois war ASAP, and make sure Japan is involved in a Carthage war. Set up properly, France will fall fast, go for it.

CKS · Jul 25, 2011

Remember that Rome is our ally against the Iroquois. If we declare on them, we'll blow our reputation. I'd rather not do that.

TheOverseer714 · Jul 25, 2011

Keep the rep clean, fer sure, so don't make peace with Iros until that deal is done.

Raliuven · Jul 25, 2011

Drat, I missed that Rome was also in on the deal. Well, that changes that plan. I thought it was only Russia. So no deal with Carthage for now.

**Edit**

The wars went well. No GL but many promotions to elite, so hopefully it will be soon.

War vs. America - After steamrolling Buffalo I made a deal for everything America had, leaving them Detroit. Sorry creamcheese, my intention was not to undermine anything you did - which you did great! In 11 turns we can put the final nail in the American coffin.

War vs. Iroquois - We took St. Regis and Centralia. Also managed to hold on to Houston. I stopped there. I haven't seen anything from the Iroquois lately. We are still locked into our alliance for another 4 turns.

War vs. France - Chartres fell immediately. After an initial stumble at Grenoble, Grenoble and Medine fell. Units are staged outside of Reoun, ready to take the city. France will give us Education for peace. After Reoun, we could make good time to their last city if we are so inclined and put them down. We may be able to trade for education by that time anyway.

War vs. Russia - Once our alliance expires we have a stack of Ansars, many elites, and catapults ready to invade.

Rome has been doing a fair job of holding the Iroquois and Carthage at bay. No razed cities or much movement, though Carthage is moving its hammer to the west. We are still considered weak against them.

I moved most of workers back into the core to finish improvements and MM. I built some infrastructure.

Techs
We are making progress towards chem. Not sure if we will beat Carthage with its lead, but Japan barely made it to gunpowder before us. I don't know if Astronomy or Banking has been discovered, but no one is building Cops. Since Cartage has been stuck at gunpowder/education for a while, they either have Astronomy already or will pull chem very soon, maybe both.

Iroqouis have education but not gunpowder, which is something to keep in mind when our deal expires. Roman and the Iroquois appear to still be in the tech game, but not by much. Russia and France are done. It is now between Japan, Carthage and us. We are by far the largest civ on the map.

Strategy/List of Things to Accomplish for this Set
1. Swap some core builds to marketplaces and aqueducts for fast builds during our GA. (DONE)
2. Take Buffalo and Detroit by Ansar. Don’t know where American capital will jump. Make peace for everything they have; if we take Houston, disband. (DONE, in part; America still has Detroit but held on to Houston.)
3. Send Ansars to take St Regis and hope that the Iroquois either destroy Russia or Russia jumps off the wagon. Make peace with the Iroquois when possible and then stage against Russia. Pursuing the war against the Iroquois is problematic because of dense jungles and lack of any infrastructure building between us and them unless we move through old Russian core (now Carthaginian land). (DONE + took Centralia. Units are staged for invasion of Russia when deal expires.)
4. We can also start to stage against France; peace expires in 4t. Need to be carefully not to get between Carthage and Japan if a war breaks out - it does not appear they are currently at war but the log says that Carthage is moving units that way? (DONE, in part. France is falling apart but situation with Carthage is not resolved and may be more dangerous now).
5. We have a few elite units that need to move forwards for leader fishing when possible. (DONE, no GL but many elites are ready for fishing.)
6. Move workers/slaves inward to core to start clearing up the jungle that’s strangling our core. (DONE)

Turn Log

Spoiler :

Here are a few pictures for lurkers:

Spoiler :

creamcheese · Jul 25, 2011

Can't we get Education from the US in our peace deal? No need to pay carthage.

I am still worried about trying to take on carthage so soon, esp without cavs or an army yet. They have muskets don't they? 4v4 is not a good bet with defender bonuses.

Edit: nvm

Raliuven · Jul 25, 2011

creamcheese said:
Can't we get Education from the US in our peace deal? No need to pay carthage.

I am still worried about trying to take on carthage so soon, esp without cavs or an army yet. They have muskets don't they? 4v4 is not a good bet with defender bonuses.

Edit: nvm

No, America doesn't have it, unfortunately. Carthage was making muskets as early as my first turn. They're a dedicated pain in our butt.

It will feel good when we take them down a peg or two, though.

and:

ROSTER:
-Raliuven (just played)
-Elephantium (Playing)
-TheOverseer714 (one deck)
-CKS
-creamcheese

I am actually starting to wonder if they game will actually make it back to me before its over! :cry:

creamcheese · Jul 25, 2011

I would wait for cannons and Cav then. Catapults really won't cut it. We don't get trebs do we?

I guess I was confused about America's techs :crazyeye:

.

Raliuven SG1

Deity

Spreading since 1990

Attachments

Trampling the AI

Deity

Spreading since 1990

Attachments

Emperor

Emperor

Trampling the AI

Spreading since 1990

Deity

Prince

Emperor

Emperor

Overseer

Deity

Overseer

Emperor

Attachments

Spreading since 1990

Emperor

Spreading since 1990

Similar threads