Rallying call for all interested: Colonisation of the Moon mod!
- Thread starter JBG
- Start date
I've been somewhat busy, it's true, but only busy enough that I haven't felt like "making work" for myself vis a vis the mod.
Unfortunately, the word from Warsong is that their entire release is grinding along with terrible, cruel slowness, leaving him and his fellows working 12 hour days, and he does not expect it to let up for another ~2 weeks (he said 3 weeks at the beginning of this week). Which totally sucks for us
, but I don't really see much we can do about it. I have been hoping that he might find some time to work on it anyway as he's personally been managing to get caught up on his release targets, but in the wake of May Fair his wife has apparently gone on an SCA binge, so any free time he might have had to spare me has gotten eaten .
This basically pushes everything back another 2 weeks from now. I.e. 1-2 weeks of work still remains to get a draft of the new bible, and it doesn't get to start until Warsong becomes available again in 2 weeks. Which sucks for me, as I'm selling my house end of June/July, but... Anyway...
As for a Story Bible... For that we don't need Warsong per se. Warsong and I have been pursuing a storyline very much in the same vein and inspired by the implications we drew from JBG's original bible. I have supplemented this vague design with the idea that at the start of a game, you could select whether certain story elements would be present via map options. I'll write up a summary of my current thoughts on the story flow when I get a chance.
Unfortunately, the word from Warsong is that their entire release is grinding along with terrible, cruel slowness, leaving him and his fellows working 12 hour days, and he does not expect it to let up for another ~2 weeks (he said 3 weeks at the beginning of this week). Which totally sucks for us
, but I don't really see much we can do about it. I have been hoping that he might find some time to work on it anyway as he's personally been managing to get caught up on his release targets, but in the wake of May Fair his wife has apparently gone on an SCA binge, so any free time he might have had to spare me has gotten eaten . This basically pushes everything back another 2 weeks from now. I.e. 1-2 weeks of work still remains to get a draft of the new bible, and it doesn't get to start until Warsong becomes available again in 2 weeks
. Which sucks for me, as I'm selling my house end of June/July, but... Anyway...As for a Story Bible... For that we don't need Warsong per se. Warsong and I have been pursuing a storyline very much in the same vein and inspired by the implications we drew from JBG's original bible. I have supplemented this vague design with the idea that at the start of a game, you could select whether certain story elements would be present via map options. I'll write up a summary of my current thoughts on the story flow when I get a chance.
Belizan said:
I don't need to know the details, I was just wondering what he does in general
so I guess he is a programmer or something for a company in Silicon Valley.I'm sure you can say what kind of company Cisco is, although bieng in Silicon valley I'm sure its something with electronics and/or computers.
Cisco is the company that makes 99% (afaik) of the routers which enable the internet to exist. It is fundamentally a networking company, although they have branched out into related fields like internet security and router and gateway controller software, etc.
matthewv
Emperor
I can wait I hope to graduate in 3 weeks and until then I will be very very busy.
Well, this isn't the most complete write-up I've seen, but I got lazy :/. (and tired of cherry picking through my email logs 8). I think I've left out a number of other optional events as well, but... Anyway, without further ado 
...
The basic idea for the storyline of the module hasn't really changed much from JBG's original ideas as best as I understood them. Warsong and I have expanded upon these ideas, as well as lifted some ideas that Warsong really liked from my Lunacy post. Roughly, the story outline go like this...
Era: (O = optional/R = Required, # = option category; Two options in the same category are either/or) Description.
Era 0 is before the game starts and represent prehistory for the mod. Optional events only are considered to have "occured" if the player selects that option in the Map Options when generating the map.
0: The first experimental colonies are put on the Moon by China and the US, these are glorified research stations which pave the way for full scale colonization attempts at the start of era 1.
0O) After the first wave of research outposts, an attempt is made at establishing a robotic colony. After 20 years of success, contact with the colony is lost, as in Sci-Fi glory, some AI takes control of the colony and severs contact (possibly with some interaction with solar storm events). This paves the way for the existance of robotic barbarians and robotic colonies in era 1.
Era 1 is dubbed Exploitation. The main purpose of colonies in this era is to rape the Moon for whatever resources and projects are most valuable to each factions parent organization on Earth. Era 1 colonies will be (little more then) excuses to take advantage of the best squares available in the game. Era 1 will also involve posturing for access to and control of precious water (and other valuable resources)
1: Plans are finally given life simultaneously by various earth groups to colonize and exploit the moon for long-term human habitation. Research groups as well as a variety of private companies and associated groups of privileged individuals put their plans in action and establish sustainable independent populations of colonists on the Moon. This starts the colonization of the Moon scenario. The "justification" for the coincidental timing of these colony foundings is somewhat hand wavey, but is based on mutual knowledge of other groups intent to go, and the need to wait until after the last 11*11 solar storm (giving players 120 turns to prepare for the next one).
1?) The UN. One thing which Warsong and I have bumped into quite a bit during our fleshing out of techs and likely progression of colonization of the earth, is that, at the point where one can send materials to and from the Earth, and one is inclined to conflict militarily with other colonies on the moon, it is trivial to do so via ICBM type rockets. Although a domestic nuclear program would require a lot of infrastructure build up (and some tech to go along with it), conventional missiles would be easily manageable. We've had a lot of discussions about how to mitigate these factors, and one currently popular for eras 1-2 is the idea of some form of UN agreement banning the use of missiles or nucleonics on the moon. I don't have that discussion in front of me, but I expect we'll include it in the design draft.
Era 2 is called either Colonization or Adaptation. Colonists will have been on the moon long enough to have developed theories and gained access to real adaptation techonologies. This is a bit of a misnomer because I also talk about adaptation techs in terms of adapting existing terrestrial technologies to work on the moon, but.. let's ignore that for now. Era 2 Colonies will begin to have real options, and the tech tree wil start to have optional branches. Distance should impose enough risks that the idea of marching "an army" should not be an attractive option. Conflict should be possibly only between relatively closely-spaced colonies.
Era 3 is the Age of Survival. Cut-off from the Earth, the colonies are forced to fend for themselves. Who has prepared themselves the best to survive the harsh realities devoid of safety nets presented by human habitation of the Moon. Era 3 will start out with some decline, with the loss of food supplies and a need to research new techs to make expansion more likely. Era 3 will also begin to show the first serious advantages to stronger players, as available space becomes more scarce, and as adaptation begins to "shrink the moon"
3: Isolation. The precise event (and therein certain nuances of the nature of the isolation) as well as the timing are chosen by the player at the start of the scenario. The nature of the Isolation event impacts not just the speed of the separation, but also the introduction of odd events on the moon, and the nature of Era 5.
3R-Isolation) Nuclear War
3R-Isolation) Zombie Plague
3R-Isolation) Regular Plague
3R-Isolation) Global Warming
3R-Isolation) World War III (Conventional)
Era 4 is the Age of Expansion, and represents the first serious conflict age in our minds. With some player turtling in preparation for Era 5 and others using their higher adapatation ratings to consider launching attacks against other players. Era 4 is when we might expect to see the first plausible military victories (player-caused exterminations).
4O) Lunacy. If selected, there will be an ideological plague that will spread through the moon involving extreme genetic manipulation of animals and then people to better adapt to the Moon, leading to paradigmal shifts in philosophies, values and outlooks which in sum total are dubbed Lunacy. In a game where Lunacy takes root, the player has the choice either to embrace Lunacy or fight it. Lunacy will involve its own specialized tech tree with some pretty sci-fi oriented techs. It is as close as we are currently intending to having anything like "aliens" in the mod.
4-5O) Doomsday Cult. With the isolation of the Moon a fatalistic ideology sparks up which, if allowed to take root, can lead to a colony rebelling and attempting to build an all Moon culture destroying device. This is a particular pet event of Warsongs, but we have a better description of it then I'm giving here. The map setting only allows for the introduction of the ideology. It is required to be allowed to spread and take root for it to advance to the stage of actually being attempted. Obviously, if a colony rebels and starts this project, all the AIs will attempt to prevent it from succeeding.
Era 5 is the Era of Reassertion. Earth emerges from its.. whatever.. and attempts to reassert its influence over the moon. Based on why contact was lost, the Earth basically does a Colonization style attempt to retake the Moon, by influence if possible and by force if necessary. Their forces depend in part of the difficulty of the game, the number of turns, the reason for loss of contact, and the scores of all the Lunar factions. The idea being that banding together in preparation for reassertion works, but not as well as it would if Reassertion was a flat force. Factions on the Moon are given a choice to ameliorate the Earth (pay tribute to buy more time), capitulate (doesn't lose you the game but does cost you *alot* of victory points), or refuse. Factions which successfully declared independence before loss of contact are in an advantageous position for Reassertion. Factions which have embraced Lunacy are automatically targetted by all terrestrial factions which remain. I am debating making the Reassertion era also optional. Also there are a number of ideologies which come into play with the reassertion of Earth.
6: Sovereignty
7: Dominance
8: Diaspora
These are still sketchy at this point, but the basic idea is that in 6 you have the final playing out of true independent nations not on some sort of emergency footing, but real sovereign nations dealing with each other in a much analagous fashion as due those on Earth.
Dominance is really just like regular civilization with Wonder races, offensive and defensive tech racing and the ever present need to expand and succeed.
Diaspora refers to the development of independent space programs and the ability to colonize Mars or other solar systems. This is where the space race victory equivalent would be.
By the by it is currently only our intention to flesh out the first 3-5 eras and see how we like the feel of the new ideas, then expand from there. The farther we get from current technology the more flexibility we have to make the game "however we like it", and the less real world knowledge we are behooved to keep in mind.
...The basic idea for the storyline of the module hasn't really changed much from JBG's original ideas as best as I understood them. Warsong and I have expanded upon these ideas, as well as lifted some ideas that Warsong really liked from my Lunacy post. Roughly, the story outline go like this...
Era: (O = optional/R = Required, # = option category; Two options in the same category are either/or) Description.
Era 0 is before the game starts and represent prehistory for the mod. Optional events only are considered to have "occured" if the player selects that option in the Map Options when generating the map.
0: The first experimental colonies are put on the Moon by China and the US, these are glorified research stations which pave the way for full scale colonization attempts at the start of era 1.
0
O) After the first wave of research outposts, an attempt is made at establishing a robotic colony. After 20 years of success, contact with the colony is lost, as in Sci-Fi glory, some AI takes control of the colony and severs contact (possibly with some interaction with solar storm events). This paves the way for the existance of robotic barbarians and robotic colonies in era 1.Era 1 is dubbed Exploitation. The main purpose of colonies in this era is to rape the Moon for whatever resources and projects are most valuable to each factions parent organization on Earth. Era 1 colonies will be (little more then) excuses to take advantage of the best squares available in the game. Era 1 will also involve posturing for access to and control of precious water (and other valuable resources)
1: Plans are finally given life simultaneously by various earth groups to colonize and exploit the moon for long-term human habitation. Research groups as well as a variety of private companies and associated groups of privileged individuals put their plans in action and establish sustainable independent populations of colonists on the Moon. This starts the colonization of the Moon scenario. The "justification" for the coincidental timing of these colony foundings is somewhat hand wavey, but is based on mutual knowledge of other groups intent to go, and the need to wait until after the last 11*11 solar storm (giving players 120 turns to prepare for the next one).
1
?) The UN. One thing which Warsong and I have bumped into quite a bit during our fleshing out of techs and likely progression of colonization of the earth, is that, at the point where one can send materials to and from the Earth, and one is inclined to conflict militarily with other colonies on the moon, it is trivial to do so via ICBM type rockets. Although a domestic nuclear program would require a lot of infrastructure build up (and some tech to go along with it), conventional missiles would be easily manageable. We've had a lot of discussions about how to mitigate these factors, and one currently popular for eras 1-2 is the idea of some form of UN agreement banning the use of missiles or nucleonics on the moon. I don't have that discussion in front of me, but I expect we'll include it in the design draft.Era 2 is called either Colonization or Adaptation. Colonists will have been on the moon long enough to have developed theories and gained access to real adaptation techonologies. This is a bit of a misnomer because I also talk about adaptation techs in terms of adapting existing terrestrial technologies to work on the moon, but.. let's ignore that for now. Era 2 Colonies will begin to have real options, and the tech tree wil start to have optional branches. Distance should impose enough risks that the idea of marching "an army" should not be an attractive option. Conflict should be possibly only between relatively closely-spaced colonies.
Era 3 is the Age of Survival. Cut-off from the Earth, the colonies are forced to fend for themselves. Who has prepared themselves the best to survive the harsh realities devoid of safety nets presented by human habitation of the Moon. Era 3 will start out with some decline, with the loss of food supplies and a need to research new techs to make expansion more likely. Era 3 will also begin to show the first serious advantages to stronger players, as available space becomes more scarce, and as adaptation begins to "shrink the moon"
3: Isolation. The precise event (and therein certain nuances of the nature of the isolation) as well as the timing are chosen by the player at the start of the scenario. The nature of the Isolation event impacts not just the speed of the separation, but also the introduction of odd events on the moon, and the nature of Era 5.
3
R-Isolation) Nuclear War3
R-Isolation) Zombie Plague3
R-Isolation) Regular Plague3
R-Isolation) Global Warming3
R-Isolation) World War III (Conventional)Era 4 is the Age of Expansion, and represents the first serious conflict age in our minds. With some player turtling in preparation for Era 5 and others using their higher adapatation ratings to consider launching attacks against other players. Era 4 is when we might expect to see the first plausible military victories (player-caused exterminations).
4
O) Lunacy. If selected, there will be an ideological plague that will spread through the moon involving extreme genetic manipulation of animals and then people to better adapt to the Moon, leading to paradigmal shifts in philosophies, values and outlooks which in sum total are dubbed Lunacy. In a game where Lunacy takes root, the player has the choice either to embrace Lunacy or fight it. Lunacy will involve its own specialized tech tree with some pretty sci-fi oriented techs. It is as close as we are currently intending to having anything like "aliens" in the mod.4-5
O) Doomsday Cult. With the isolation of the Moon a fatalistic ideology sparks up which, if allowed to take root, can lead to a colony rebelling and attempting to build an all Moon culture destroying device. This is a particular pet event of Warsongs, but we have a better description of it then I'm giving here. The map setting only allows for the introduction of the ideology. It is required to be allowed to spread and take root for it to advance to the stage of actually being attempted. Obviously, if a colony rebels and starts this project, all the AIs will attempt to prevent it from succeeding.Era 5 is the Era of Reassertion. Earth emerges from its.. whatever.. and attempts to reassert its influence over the moon. Based on why contact was lost, the Earth basically does a Colonization style attempt to retake the Moon, by influence if possible and by force if necessary. Their forces depend in part of the difficulty of the game, the number of turns, the reason for loss of contact, and the scores of all the Lunar factions. The idea being that banding together in preparation for reassertion works, but not as well as it would if Reassertion was a flat force. Factions on the Moon are given a choice to ameliorate the Earth (pay tribute to buy more time), capitulate (doesn't lose you the game but does cost you *alot* of victory points), or refuse. Factions which successfully declared independence before loss of contact are in an advantageous position for Reassertion. Factions which have embraced Lunacy are automatically targetted by all terrestrial factions which remain. I am debating making the Reassertion era also optional. Also there are a number of ideologies which come into play with the reassertion of Earth.
6: Sovereignty
7: Dominance
8: Diaspora
These are still sketchy at this point, but the basic idea is that in 6 you have the final playing out of true independent nations not on some sort of emergency footing, but real sovereign nations dealing with each other in a much analagous fashion as due those on Earth.
Dominance is really just like regular civilization with Wonder races, offensive and defensive tech racing and the ever present need to expand and succeed.
Diaspora refers to the development of independent space programs and the ability to colonize Mars or other solar systems. This is where the space race victory equivalent would be.
By the by it is currently only our intention to flesh out the first 3-5 eras and see how we like the feel of the new ideas, then expand from there. The farther we get from current technology the more flexibility we have to make the game "however we like it", and the less real world knowledge we are behooved to keep in mind.
Sounds damn good so far Belizan. It looks like some of the early eras may not be 4 tiers in size, which isn't a bad thing. The UN type resolution is definitely a good idea to represent the limited warfare early on.
I can't wait to see it hammered out further.
I can't wait to see it hammered out further.
looks really cool and very good Belizan
I don't get what you want to do here, does that mean the factions based from both countries (NASA and the other one in the game which is an east aisian coalition, I forget the name atm) will get a boost?
I like this one, maybe we can apply them as a religion type? we need 'religions' in this mod and those could fit easily. Since Lunacy will have its own techs, this is what Kael has done, so we can ask him or one of his team-members to help us get started on it, its a very good concept and its already been tried and true in FfH. I also really like the genetic adaptation theme of it
I don't get what you want to do here, does that mean the factions based from both countries (NASA and the other one in the game which is an east aisian coalition, I forget the name atm) will get a boost?
I like this one, maybe we can apply them as a religion type? we need 'religions' in this mod and those could fit easily. Since Lunacy will have its own techs, this is what Kael has done, so we can ask him or one of his team-members to help us get started on it, its a very good concept and its already been tried and true in FfH. I also really like the genetic adaptation theme of it
smjjames said:
No, this is background noise. There are a lot of plans currently in existance for moon "bases", but they do not represent colonies as we think of them, or as Civ represents cities. This is basically a nod to moon exploration and habitation purists who might want to point to many of the existing plans and say, "But what about that?". The answer is yes, yes... Those plans were carried out. Then we moved on to the next step.
As for legs up, we've considered making goodey huts out of them, but basically they don't represent much in the way of help or resources, and the presumption is that in the intervening time, the technological discoveries made by these early colonies has gotten shared with their friends and allies and so on, such that all factions start on equal footing (based on their faction type, of course).
smjjames said:I like this one, maybe we can apply them as a religion type? we need 'religions' in this mod and those could fit easily. Since Lunacy will have its own techs, this is what Kael has done, so we can ask him or one of his team-members to help us get started on it, its a very good concept and its already been tried and true in FfH. I also really like the genetic adaptation theme of it
You've missed out on a lot of discussions we've had. Yes, Ideologies are this mod's version of religions
.Belizan said:
The goody hut or abandoned base sounds good. Or maybe the HoMM idea where you find an old base and the supplies you find allow you to get a free "building" for the nearest city.
Belizan said:You've missed out on a lot of discussions we've had. Yes, Ideologies are this mod's version of religions
Finally, Ideologies make it onto the Moon. I've been beating this dead horse a long time.
on the idea of goody huts, what we are using right now, those old ruins, they are difficult to see because they don't stand out very well from the terrain. I'm not saying change them to something else atm, just add something to make it more visible.
as for missing out on alot of the discussions, I don't know if I should go ahead and read through all 130 pages (I joined this thread on page 130 or 131 or so) or if it doesn't matter too much at this point.
as for missing out on alot of the discussions, I don't know if I should go ahead and read through all 130 pages (I joined this thread on page 130 or 131 or so) or if it doesn't matter too much at this point.
Well, I don't think I could stomache rereading this entire thread, personally. But you have to understand that we've been going over options and features for this mod for a long time now, so a great many intuitive or interesting ideas have already been explored and discussed by us, not to mention that we've developed a certain amount of communal agreement as to what sorts of things we do and don't want to do in the mod.
Like for instance, alien bacteria.
8).
*ducks*
Like for instance, alien bacteria.
8).
*ducks*
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