Ram Bug or am I missing something?

[CIVILNATER]

Yo.

So I'm in the middle of a genocidal campaign against the Aztecs. I'm trying to attack Mesa Verde, but my battering rams aren't doing anything when I try to enter the city to reduce their city defenses.

I would very much appreciate any guidance on the matter as I need to understand what the issue is (assuming it isn't a bug) so that I can prepare another tactic.

Save is attached, please let my know if I can provide anything else.

Thanks,
x

 

[cammcken]

Hey, haven't looked into it, but I'm guessing that your rams have a very low chance of surviving? Are you losing a lot of them? It could be that they're losing so badly they're not landing enough hits before dying. They can only reduce defenses when they score a hit, and it's only a chance. Try combining them into larger units (if you're using Size Matters), or wait until Arsonists.

Is the city defense rating shown in red text? That means it's at its minimum; you can't reduce defenses any lower and there's no point sending in more rams. Time send in the shock troopers.

 

[CIVILNATER]

Nah. My battering rams aren't getting destroyed. Nor are they reducing defences, they won't do anything.

Not had this issue before, I'm wondering if there's something in the tile or city's defence preventing the rams from being able to attack.

To confirm: city defence is at 178% and needs to be reduced. Troops can't attack the city. Rams CANT attack the city. And I've tried reseting modifiers.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Nah. My battering rams aren't getting destroyed. Nor are they reducing defences, they won't do anything.

I will look at your game.

That's because you are most likely using the wrong commands for the rams. But with city defense already at 178% if the Rams are not promoted (when built with the appropriate promotions) then when they are sent to "attack" they will only, at first, do little damage to the city defense number. This will increase as more rams are used.

Also what game set up options are you using in regards to warfare?

 

[CIVILNATER]

Thanks JosEPh,

Pretty new to this so apologies if I'm simply missing something in the defenses.

Off the top of my head, again unless I'm missing something, i have all combat mods active (excluding modmods) including size matters except for size matters uncut. That incudes surround and destroy without zones of control as per recommend.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'll have to take a look at the situation in the game.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I will leave it to you T-brd. I think it has to do with the Standout promotions and their usage. All the rams have it. Why I don't know.

Also this game is an older savegame started before we moved the Start date to 200,000BC.

And it looks a lot like an older Pit UEM Map.

Also Permanent Alliances Option is On. Though he has no alliance with Montezuma.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Alright. It sounds a bit mysterious. Standout MIGHT be it if they DIDN'T have standout ON but since you say they do that should disqualify one potential issue. Are these rams ALL Hidden Nationality by any chance? Permanent Alliance is an uncommon setting so it might be a culprit but not too likely. And most games don't have this problem.

You've at least confirmed then, that they ARE at war and the rams can't attack, right?

A real debug fix is still weeks away from having the bandwidth to address though, just so we all understand where I am with things right now.

 

[JosEPh_II]

You've at least confirmed then, that they ARE at war and the rams can't attack, right?

Yes at war.

Tried 2 turns to attack with rams. Tried 1st turn as they were, no go. Then changed Standout status on same turn and tried again, the change used up their move.

So I advanced to next turn and tried again, again no go. Again tried to change their Stand out status.

We have made some major changesto the game since this game was started. AND it has not been updated to current SVN version.

Giant Earth map with preset Civs.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yeah, I'll simply have to analyze the code as it runs through an attack attempt. Thanks for your help though!

 

[CIVILNATER]

Thanks for your time guy's,

Yes i am using the fixed GEM that comes preloaded with v37, i would have loved to have installed an updated map but being a mod noob and with potential MA problems i decided to just try the map that was there.

Though I'm a stickler for big earth maps that can fit enough cities on islands, so there's no chance of trying the large map.

Of the giant or gigantic maps i think one needed updated textures and one needed civ megapack. Hence why I'm worried about memory, as for the SVN i was worried (memory) that i wouldn't be able to run v37. As it was at least capable i didn't want to tempt fate. Plus download time

So with some map, svn and memory guidance i might just start an updated game. It's my first (not withstanding a couple of early crashed games) play of C2C so it's at least a test of the new mechanics and features. Once again thanks for your time v guys.

The machine i play on is a dell xps with integrated intel graphics card. I5 processor around 2nd or 3rd gen with i think 4gb ram if I'm right. If I'm right i guess it's the gpu causing me agro.

 

[CIVILNATER]

Hey guys,

So i have mental health issues, and you need to know this because i worry that you might be working on a fix and using your valuable time on little old me. I'd hate to be an imposotion.

Anywho, I'm going to try and install the latest svn version. I've had a week off and need a break from pokemon, I'll let you know how i get on. If you can atleast give me an update I'd appreciate it, i know you said a fix is long off.

Peace and love

 

[Thunderbrd]

You're not an imposition with this...I'm just locked into a project that's growing close to being complete and then I'll have to go around collecting all the little bug reports I've had on a shelf for a bit here. Modding is slow work when you also have a fulltime job and a family.

 

[CIVILNATER]

You're not an imposition with this...I'm just locked into a project that's growing close to being complete and then I'll have to go around collecting all the little bug reports I've had on a shelf for a bit here. Modding is slow work when you also have a fulltime job and a family.

Cool, yeah modern life is complicated. Thanks again, I have a quick SVN query that I am going to PM you about if you have five minutes.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm stepping away now but I'll answer it as soon as I can.

 

[CIVILNATER]

SVN is up and running, I now have wind in my sails and am going for a custom map. Eeek. Guess I will close the thread, forgot about that previous save guys and thanks for you time.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yo.

So I'm in the middle of a genocidal campaign against the Aztecs. I'm trying to attack Mesa Verde, but my battering rams aren't doing anything when I try to enter the city to reduce their city defenses.

I would very much appreciate any guidance on the matter as I need to understand what the issue is (assuming it isn't a bug) so that I can prepare another tactic.

Save is attached, please let my know if I can provide anything else.

Thanks,
x

Resolved. It will take a masterful application of attack strategy for this assault to turn out well. That makes this scenario a good training exercise in early game attack procedures!

Tough bug to uproot. It had to do with the fact that some of the units in the city were so injured that the attacking ram had found those injured units to be there and thought it was violating the combat limit rules to attack, which was short-circuiting the attack before the actual determination of which 'best defender' (a unit that was at full health) could even be completed.

I fixed this for Breakdown units like rams easily by making them an exception to this check because they can continue a battle past the combat limit so why not be able to start one, even if the check is legally short circuiting the ability to attack as it normally would with an applicable combat limit in effect on the attacking unit. This does leave one loophole:

This may still lurk as an issue for attacking siege units but it's not going to manifest often because with the way Distance Assault works, most of those units would probably be better used for that so that they never risk their lives to engage closer anyhow.