Ranged Fix: 1 tile range for archers

[Feyd Rautha]

Would this change be the "silver bullet" as it were to give melee back some mojo? I'm not one to use mods all that often, but if there is a mod out there that makes this change what are the ramifications? Archers would be almost exclusively defensive so melee/siege becomes the focus, but would it make city defense untenable? I know the issue was the 2 move range for melee making archers on city defense very important, but if you don't have horse units or melee of your own to send out to attack siege equipment then shouldn't the city be lost anyway?

Just a thought. The AI would probably never accept the change, but perhaps for MP games?

 

[Falconiano]

City range would need to be toned down to 1 then.
What about siege btw? 1 range would be stupid.

Btw there is already a mod that does this, though I don't remember the name.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Siege would still be two as would cities.

 

[Lyoncet]

I think a better way of making Melee units more useful would just be to rebalance relative strengths. 2-range Archery units seem fine to me, and I like the shift to the 1-tile Gatling Gun line.

Alternately, you could make the Cover promotion easier to come by. That one makes a huge difference in the hardiness of your melee units.

If you made archery units 1-range, you'd need to rebalance relative strengths anyways, because they'd at best be able to get one shot off against a melee unit before getting annihilated.

 

[damnyankees]

I think a better way of making Melee units more useful would just be to rebalance relative strengths. 2-range Archery units seem fine to me, and I like the shift to the 1-tile Gatling Gun line.

Alternately, you could make the Cover promotion easier to come by. That one makes a huge difference in the hardiness of your melee units.

If you made archery units 1-range, you'd need to rebalance relative strengths anyways, because they'd at best be able to get one shot off against a melee unit before getting annihilated.

I think the big mistake in the way the units are constructed is that they need more variation against each other, not just raw strength.

In other words, take the basic classical units. My recommendations for how they should be changed are in bold.

Swordsman: 14 STR. Fine as is. This is just the base unit of fighting, nothing special.
Catapult: 7 STR. 8 RNG. Also fine. It's weak, and strong against cities. Needs to be protected.
Composite Bowman: 7 STR. 11 RNG. Should get a -33% or -50 against mounted units. It's harder to hit fast-moving targets.
Spearman: 11 STR. Should get a much bigger benefit against mounted units. Something like +150%.
Horsemen: 12 STR. Should get a big boost against ranged units, something like +100%. Horses would run down ranged units with ease.

Basically, what we would need is more variation of units against other units of different types. It would encourage diverse armies and some tactical thinking about how you organize your formations. Every unit type should be particularly good against some other unit, and particularly weak against another.

 

[MantaRevan]

I think making all of these changes would probably upset the balance of the game. The only one I would really advocate is giving mounted units a bonus vs ranged. That nerfs range while making mounted units better, and thereinby making the pikeman more valuable. Just giving mounted units anti range promotions balances the game out without changing too many core mechanics.

 

[budweiser]

In stead of 1 range, it should be 1 movement point.

 

[Firesmacker]

Or just make ranged units, with the exception of siege units a lot weaker against cities. I'm trying to remember the last time I heard of a walled city having its walls reduced to rubble from the enemy firing sheets of arrows or crossbow bolts.

Edit: I used the Russian word for money instead of the word for a pile of debris...

 

[Catan_Settler]

Or just make ranged units, with the exception of siege units a lot weaker against cities. I'm trying to remember the last time I heard of a walled city having its walls reduced to ruble from the enemy firing sheets of arrows or crossbow bolts.

^^ This! Or what about having archers attack the unit *stationed in the city* instead of destroying the city walls? I also am ok with the mounted bonus vs ranged idea, but realism wise I think we need to limit ranged damage against cities more than anything else which ^^ is an awesome solution to.

 

[joncnunn]

City bombardment would be way too powerful if left at 2 hexes if archery type units were reduced in range to 1 hex.

And as is; I've always felt that the static 2 hexes for cities was wrong. It really ought to be bad (maybe even non-existent even you don't even have walls) and require investment (city defenses) to become as good as it is. These are actually buildings that puppets love to build.

 

[Firesmacker]

I would keep the city defense the way it is, especially since in the beginning it is the only way to smack and kill barbarians since my warrior is scouting.
My only gripe, besides the ludicrous way arrow and crossbow bolts can take down several foot thick and who knows how high walls. Siege engines need more HP. Especially since you, if you are lucky, can bring like 3 to attack a city.

On the other hand, you bring crap loads (5-6) of archer-types and 2-3 melee units (1 if you are feeling saucy) and take down just about any city in the early eras.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

I would move the requirements for melee siege from shock/drill II to shock/drill I and ranged volley to accuracy/barrage I to accuracy/barrage II.
Another option is to make siege which says +50 vs. cities to also give that vs. cities bonus on defense. They'd have to leave it at shock/drill II because it would be too easy to combine it with cover and have near immunity to ranged city attacks.
The way it works now I almost never attack a city with a melee unit unless it's the very last attack needed to take the city after ranged attacks. And if I'm promoting for a city attack I take cover instead to going for siege later, otherwise it wont survive long enough to get the siege promotion. The siege promotion also makes the unit a target for ranged city attacks so it might not survive long enough to attack.