Rapid expansion start with artists (and Franco-Iberia?)

[Tomice]

Virtues seem to be extremely powerful in BE. Many of the unique faction traits can be aquired in similar (though admittedly usually weaker) form from virtues.

Seeing that the prosperity virtue tree offers a free worker and a free settler early, I thought one could create a fine strategy around it. Care to help me with some theorycrafting? Sorry if this has been discussed somewhere else already!

I use this tool by Aeson, BTW: LINK (Awesome work! Thank you!).



Civ choices:
Franco-Iberia, artists, free soldier, spaceship bonus of choice (probably coastlines to help with exploring, or free energy)

Turn 1:
build old earth relic, go exploring for new city sites. 3 culture/turn from palace+seeding bonus.

Turn 8:
OER complete, culture now 5/turn

Turn 12:
You got got 2 virtues by now and your worker. Build one more worker, then scout and finally a second soldier to accompany your settler.

Turn 31:
You now own 1 explorer, 2 soldiers, 2 workers and a settler (from culture). Your city borders spread like mad, virtues come rolling in (at least 7 culture with second city), free tech not far. And we didn't rushbuy anything yet.

---> Profit!


One could surely speed things up further by taking a worker unit as cargo, but that's risky and you may run out of improvable tiles too soon. The free money as seeding option seems strong for a rushed start, but I'd say knowing the coastlines helps you much more in the long run.



Suggestions? Other starting strategies?
One big question will be if we need pioneering to get a settler from the virtue?

 

[Acken]

Yes I've also suggested Artists + Prosperity go well together in the "what's best colonists" thread. Since the top of Prosperity have virtues you want to get early for it to be useful. In that case artists make sense to get these fast.

 

[Gokudo01]

I like the opener's idea. You can combine prosperity and knowledge to increase further more your culture output : bonus to grow and culture from population seems to be a good combo to get lots of culture early and get many free Techs.

And if I pick knowledge, i think it's better to get a second explorer instead of a soldier. Because you will have Field ressearch sooner with artist than any other colonists type, leading to get biggest free science.
50 science for T1 is really good. Most T1 researches cost 80 science points.


So summarize, less workers more explorers.

 

[Tomice]

Here's a summary of what you'd get by maxing out the first five virtues in prosperity and industry (which should be possible well before turn 100 considering the 8th virtue is free). The only opportunity cost is to build OER early, which isn't much considering that monuments where a top priority in civ5 as well, even if you only needed them for the border expansion (which would be monumental with 4 early culture in your cities).
Here you go:


free worker
free settler

30% faster outpost to city conversion
+ 15% tile improvement rate

10% food carried over
+10% growth in every city

+10% energy in every city
+1 energy from basic ressources

+10% building production
+15% wonder production
+15% for buildings already existing in the capital

5 energy in capital
+10% growth, production and energy in the capital

1 free tech of choice as Franco-Iberia



EDIT @ Gokudo:
I'd probably go for knowledge after this because the population-dependant boni aren't as crucial in the beginning. But then, filling up knowledge tier 1 would grant 2 powerful synergy boni: +10% culture and 1 free tech of choice!
Maybe I'd delay the energy boni from industry to get the knowledge opener earlier, +10% tech is not to be neglected.

 

[ggmoyang]

There's a quest chain that gives a free soldier.

It requires to
1. research pioneering
2. build colonist
3. make a outpost - soldier appears next to the outpost.

If these quest steps can be skipped and can be finished by free colonist, a soldier could be skipped - though we don't know if this will be the case.

 

[Tomice]

I guess the quest stages are triggered by 1) getting the tech, 2) getting the settler and 3) founding the city.
If we need pioneering anyway to get the settler, everything should be fine. If not, I doubt researching it so early would be worth the free settler. Being able to delay pioneering until I care about trade (or a third city) would be one of the main benefits of the above opener.

 

[ggmoyang]

Some numbers for theorycrafting

HQ bonus: +3 Production, +1 Culture
Cost of units/buildings
Old Earth Relic: 40
Soldier: 50
Worker: 60
Old Earth Relic quest bonus: +1 culture or maintenance(1) free
Cost of first 5 virtues: 20, 24, 36, 56, 84 (presumably 20 + (2n)^2, n=# of virtues)

Base health bonus: 9
Unhealthiness per city: 4 (not applied with outposts)
Unhealthiness penalty: -10% science and culture in all cities (culture is rounded down) also loses +20% outpost growth bonus from being healthy

 

[Tomice]

Thanks a lot!
I underestimated the initial production. In the German letsplay with the newest version they had 3 prod from palace, 2 from the plains city tile and 1 from the first citizen. With 6 prod, we'd have the OER as early as turn 8.

This means we'd get the first worker on turn 12 and the second one on turn 17 or so from normal production.

The second soldier would be around turn 24-25 and the settler from culture around turn 31. I guess it would be beneficial to squeeze another explorer in before the second soldier for goody huts (or rush-buy it).

EDIT: updated the OP.

 

[Tomice]

What seems strange: They play on quick gamespeed, yet their production costs seem equal to those Arioch lists for normal gamespeed. Didn't they have more "uneven" production costs for quick gamespeed in earlier previews?

 

[Seek]

I see a number of different virtue opening builds for an FI/Artist rexing/wide play:

First, go deep into prosperity for health, production and energy, then grab other basics for the t1 width bonus:

Spoiler :

I'd probably continue from here to get the second prosperity depth bonus (prioritize helping hands, joy from variety, ecoscaping, homesteading?) and the first industry depth bonus (probably go straight to independence network). At this point, I'd either move into knowledge and try to go a 'true' wide (ICS), maybe with Harmony, or push into might and go for domination if the land isn't as amenable to ICSing as first thought.

======

Second, I could see going a more science- and affinity-heavy route, where beelining to cheaper leaf techs and more affinity points from tech are the goals:

Spoiler :

This would be more of a REX, getting the 'wide' bonuses from the reduced cost/city virtues in knowledge, focusing on clearing the aliens and getting expeditions out while getting six or so cities up, then focusing on growth, science and fast affinity victory. Purity 1 would be an early-game priority, so maybe make a push for Gene Vault along the way to make up for the lack of prosperity's growth.

Long term, I'd definitely work towards the second knowledge depth bonus (with the per-pop and synergistic stuff), get the bonus affinity level from might at an opportune time for a victory push, dip into prosperity for growth, and push more deeply into industry, with the goal of another free affinity level with the second t2 width bonus.

======

Lastly, there is always the Cohesive Values push, then going into the new-city prosperity stuff:

Spoiler :

From here late-prosperity health should be a priority, but getting the knowledge depth kicker is very tempting, and -20% sci for leaf techs is right around the corner. I'm definitely less certain about the viability of this build.

PS I'm fairly sure everything we've seen so far has been on quick speed.

 

[Tomice]

Awesome post, Seek! Gotta think a bit about it. A load of inspiration in there

Also found this for expert opinions on all virtues: LINK

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Well for real Rapid expansion start, I'd go Kavitha, Artist, Pioneering (and then probably life scanner to find 'alien safe zones', but any is OK)

Build
Relic, Soldier, Settler

Research
Genetics (for health buildings), Ecology (for ultrasonic fences) Engineering (for thorium reactors to pay for it all)

Virtues
Worker, Settler.. Health in prosperity

Get two settlers, (hopefully one free soldier with the quest)

Then build up Health buildings (+5 health available from buildings with quests)

 

[MadDjinn]

If you're going for a fast expand, then take the free Settler first, and go back for the worker later.

also, Pioneering should be your 2nd tech to research (first if you really want to do it, but I'd go Chemistry first).

 

[KrikkitTwo]

If you're going for a fast expand, then take the free Settler first, and go back for the worker later.

also, Pioneering should be your 2nd tech to research (first if you really want to do it, but I'd go Chemistry first).

Does it seem better to research or start with Pioneering?

 

[MadDjinn]

Does it seem better to research or start with Pioneering?

In this situation, I'd take the worker over Pioneering. You aren't going to start kicking out settlers right away anyways, so no need to take it (Cargo wise) for a REx plan.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

In this situation, I'd take the worker over Pioneering. You aren't going to start kicking out settlers right away anyways, so no need to take it (Cargo wise) for a REx plan.

Which allows you to take the Settler virtue before the worker virtue

Any reasons why Chemistry first?.. finding petroleum is hard? or getting the labs up?

 

[MadDjinn]

Which allows you to take the Settler virtue before the worker virtue

Any reasons why Chemistry first?.. finding petroleum is hard? or getting the labs up?

hammers and science.

 

[Rexfelis69]

I would take the Tectonic scanner ship for a REX start. Positioning the 2nd and 3rd city knowing where those resources are already will be a big help.

 

[gunnergoz]

I love the focus in the discussion on peaceful expansion and rapid build-up of infrastructure. The only thing I see as being absent is the wild card of aliens, not to mention competing colonies...but mostly the aliens.

Even if one pursues a relatively passive and deferential stance towards the aliens, they are after all wild animals and can be expected to behave in ways that are in their own best interests and not in that of the invading colonists.

So the sugestions so far are wonderful but, apart from mentioning the occasional soldier or two, they almost completely discount the potential havoc that a nearby nest can cause the colony's expansion plans.

Just sayin...because I too am a relative peacenik in Civ, but this planet may require one to have a big stick to carry around for those times when a friendly wave and a cracker tossed at the passing Siege Worm won't be enough. So my plans are going to include some industrial capacity set aside to build up a military sufficient to deal with an unexpectedly hostile alien threat. Naturally, I will also build whatever buildings/fences that I need to help cope with it as well. But IMO it can't only be just about best case scenario planning.

 

[Lord of Harmony]

The aliens are definitely a wild card.