Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by G0liath, May 24, 2011.
Is there anyway to control what technology a RA will grant? If so, how?
An RA will not provide a given tech provided you have invested at least 25% (33%?) of the required beakers. By researching at least this much of a tech you don't want, It will direct the RA results toward other technologies. This is usually referred to 'tech blocking'
Of course, by then you've spent several turns researching said tech, but it can influence things a bit.
Me, I want to be able to turn RA's off. They're game-breaking nonsense in my opinion.
By the way, Dermo, love the sig!
I agree with this. Sometimes I want them; sometimes I don't. It sure would be nice to be able to toggle them on/off
Figures Mr Rove only wants to play by the rules when it benifits him
On point. 33% is required to block a tech
Play Thalassicus excellent mod... you can only use the UoP part, which is good enough, and which gets rid of teh RA's (I agree, they are gamebreaking), and replaces them with a 5% bonus of research proportional to each member when DoF is in place after Philosophy.
Regarding research agreements, I typically play on the Marathon speed setting and find it very difficult to maintain RA's over the 90 turn duration, from the medieval era onwards where the AIs get to the stage of chain declaring war on random targets (usually the weakest AI but sometimes randomly me possibly due to being the points leader). Anyone got any tips?
play better politics. like only sign RA with your DoF and defensive pact.
that should keep them in line until the 90turn is up.
How are RAs game breaking?
If you use them optimally, they are massively over-powered on most difficulty levels except the hardest.
Basically, if you take full advantage of them (which arguably you should do, although I dont) they can put you so far ahead of the AIs tech-wise that the rest of the game becomes the proverbial "cakewalk".
Just think stealth bombers VS muskets and you'll get the idea .
You can convert gold into research at more than a 3:1 ratio consistently and easily. Try getting even half that from anything else. It's as gamebreaking as tech trades were in civ IV, and its manipulation is more gamey, not less. They needed to nerf tech trades in IV, and they definitely need to nerf RA in V...make it less attractive than other options at least SOMETIMES. right now, they're better than absolutely everything else unless you can't use them. Basically, it's an option that you 100% do if available.
How many other in-game decisions can you say are ALWAYS good to do if you can do them? War? Buying a city state's allegiance? Building any type of unit? Making any kind of resource deal? No, no, no. But RA? Yes. They're so good people often loan money just to sign them.
Why does firaxis insist on a skill-equalizing, gamed mechanic in all of their games? Part of the reason the AI needs such bonuses is trash like this, but it also has a larger impact on things like spawns making a difference etc. Why it's the default ON instead of OFF is baffling, just like tech trades in IV.
Of hell, just compare the beaker returns of spending that same gold on a science building. You won't even dream of touching a RA...the break-even on that will last longer than the game.
I wouldn't say that RAs necessarily are the best choice in all situations. It's a waste of money if you're about to go to war with the Civ you're signing an RA with. The problem is that this isn't really that much of a drawback. It's a very narrow set of situations. I personally think that it makes sense for RAs to be powerful, but I guess that they are so advantageous is not necessarily that great for gameplay.
I don't know. I don't like them that much either, and put in a house rule for stopping all RA's after Industrial. (The ones you've already made will trickle in through the beginning of Modern era, of course.)
But at higher difficulty levels (I never play lower than Immortal), the converse is true - the AI is very, very difficult to keep up with without them. (oh - someone already mentioned this.)
It's tricky to get right.
The problem is that even on deity after the most recent patch, it is not difficult to maintain tech parity with a significant advantage in military techs throughout the game when utilizing diplomacy/RA spam effectively. Even if you figure that 50% of RA's will be broken they are still absolutely no-brainers. I typically play with a no RA house rule on all levels.
I want to play into the Modern era, maintaining parity, and then have a huge world war.
With your stricter house rule, I don't think I'd have a chance with a Domination victory (or of course a Science victory). Of course I could be wrong, and I'd agree that it's fairly easy to keep up early-game, but this seems like it would force me to go to war in the Medieval or Renaissance era.
(Which come to think of it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, but still.)
Edit: as a "milder" suggestion - notice that even civ's that are "guarded" with you will still agree to RA's at a "fair" exchange rate? They could change that, at least.
What if there was an option in Advanced Setup with 3 choices: RAs, Tech Trading, or None?
First of TMIT, let me agree with almost everything you said, and the sentiment behind it
Just wanted to quickly say that with the right leader and scholasticism, CS's can be almost as good of an investment.
And I dislike the blocking concept even more, that the RAs themselves. The concept that you can "research just enough" of everything else to pop the right tech is absolutely silly in the real world.
Two things I'd like to see changed is reworking of the RA construct so that two civs (or more even) could jointly work on a technology and accelerate it through cooperation and repurpose the AI so it thinks strategically for partners for such agreements. By carefully choosing partners who tech deficiencies are similar and who they don't mind helping accelerate with a given tech I think a lot of this could be solved.
well, for me the Thal's Way is the right one... RA's should be just that: agreements to share some research resources (beakers in the game), according to each partner's capabilities... it's the model that GalCiv2 uses too, and works very well. Each RA's should only add a percentage of the other partner's beakers to yours (which encourages to seek for one or two really good partners), but never ever a manipulable tech at the end of the agreement. That is just silly.
Thal has demonstrated that the solution is extremely easy, even without the C++ package. Why doesn't Firaxis incorporate it in their patches? Mistery...
Tech trading? No!!!! One of the few things I absolutely despise in civ4... I always play with Tech Whoring off.
I saw a suggestion on these forums that RAs should provide X amount of beakers towards your research instead of a free (supposedly random) tech. Personally, I think this would be a good idea and could be worked out to be a good and balanced mechanic.
By the way, another good model for research agreement/trading is that of Hearts of Iron. Basically, countries can exchange technologies, but not completely. They can only trade "blueprints", which in game terms are portions of the total cost of a tech. The receiving country still has to do te research to benefit from the tech, but it does so at a much lower cost after "blueprint" trading. Makes also good sense to me.
I would love to see a combination of both models: RA's that exchange proportional amounts of "beakers" for each partner, and blueprint trading...
Wishing too much, perhaps...?
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