Rat16 - warmongers go immortal

[ThERat]

Greebley your plan sounds good to me...have fun during your break


Roster
ThERat
Gotag
Till
Greebley
acidsatyr - up

 

[ThERat]

acid, unless you play this today i am going to play this tomorrow night...world cup +4th July almost over, so now we can resume normal play I hope

 

[acidsatyr]

you better take it, sorry, i'm traveling a lot right now, it has nothing to do with WC. I'll play acid02 today which i'm long overdue but i dont't have time for other two right now;

 

[ThERat]

played 4 turns and the game crashed again on me.
The situation is almost hopeless, we will not get New Sarai or any other of Khan's cities.
In fact he still wants Samarqand for peace.

Question now is whether we continue with this game. I want to gauge the interest here. Honestly, lately CIV has completely lost it on me, with that laggy play (even worse after I went back to C3C) and the frequent crashes.

So, do you guys want to continue this game?

 

[Till]

This and the SGOTM are the only reasons why i haven't uninstalled civ4 yet. Try as i might, i just can't get into it. Partly because of the reasons you mentioned.
I'm ready to play this game until the end, but i wouldn't be too sad if we gave up.
The good weather lately suggests other leisure activities anyway. Too bad we don't have any beergardens up here...

 

[Greebley]

Sounds like we bit off more than we can chew.

Obviously an error one can make at immortal.

I feel no strong desire to continue this, but will play if someone does feel strongly.

I liked our start well enough, but feel we have not been playing as well recently - at least not good enough for immortal - not enough attention to details for example.

 

[LKendter]

Well as a lurker I am sorry to see this series go.

There is almost nothing left that I follow. Seems like to many members of my old team aren't happy with Civ4.

 

[ThERat]

Well as a lurker I am sorry to see this series go.

There is almost nothing left that I follow. Seems like to many members of my old team aren't happy with Civ4.

Maybe a miracle patch or expansion can save this game, though I doubt it very much.

For once, I am really tired of the laggy play, every single moment you move a unit, there will be a lag. Then, I have an issue that my computer dies on the game far too often and I am not willing to waste my money being forced to switch on the airconditioner.
And the gameplay, sad to say, frankly is simply not addictive enough. I guess it's too balanced and still has a lot of MM that is bothersome.

Where was there one game you had to struggle for a crucial resource?
Where was there a game you could come from really behind?
Has there been a game where I have not been bogged down by happy MM due to WW? (and this despite the fact that warmongering is the only way to win on higher levels)

Immortal and deity are insane games that aren't fun really. It's like sid on C3C, you play it once, but it is a chore.

I have tried the RB games they put up, I started and pretty soon get really bored with the game. It feels like work not like a way to relax.

I think my first real annoying moments came with the team AW games that are totally broken. As far as I can see there is no hint that the WW concept is being overhauled. As long as I get no civic combination without WW, I am not going to touch this game for many games.

And as I mentioned before, those people that liked C3C have clearly had issues with CIV. I can also sense that after an initial period of strong addiction, a lot of players lose that fast and then disappear from CIV SG's.

And of course, the issue for SG's is, that this game is not really suited for them IMHO.

 

[ThERat]

Where was there one game you had to struggle for a crucial resource?

Maybe I need to rephrase that. If you get a start in CIV without bronze, the research is destined for IW. If you don't have iron and copper (which is rarely the case), then you can say game over soon due to the axemen that the barbarians will churn out soon. Maybe they don't destroy you but trouble you that much until you fall behind on the AI. This is all on higher levels of course.
After iron and copper, there is no crucial resource for aeons anyway

 

[Gotag]

I cannot really argue with you.

I've played a fair amount of immortal and diety games with Civ4 and the dedication and micro required can be a real chore. I average on the order of ~40 hours if I want to win and if it's a larger map (which I've done once, never again) then +50 hrs easily.

In addition, even if you get huge breaks with respect to your opponents, it's almost endless warfare or planning for warfare. Staying competitive tech wise late game requires (at diety level) 2X the opposing AIs size with respect to population and territory and if you're that much bigger it's faster to win via domination most of the time anyway.

I've grumped about this before to Sirian and he agreed. It was a mistake to tie support costs to difficulty. The games tend to blend together in common. I call it the rule of three. (this is with respect to diety mind) 1 city to start, add three during the land grab, 4 if you have gold or gems to mine) then three more cities via conquest with research funded by pillage, then three more with COL and courthouses ect..ect... This is an almost impossible cycle to break and it tends to make all the games play out in a very similar fashion. Hell it's hard just varying the research path.

Well, I've just finished RB epic 3 (+48hrs oof...) and I will admit that my interest is somewhat flagging. However I'm up for finishing this if you folks are so minded.

Gotag

 

[acidsatyr]

Sorry to hear that you feel about CIV this way. I have to say though, I think this is the best installment of the civ series yet, even thought it has some obvious drawbacks. The biggest in my opinion is research path. It’s always the same on higher difficulties, no chance for any variations. And if you play lower levels its ridiculously easy. Game had most magic in it when i started playing it at prince level really. No complexity like, say, double your pleasure mod.
I won’t be able to play civ in a couple of days again, probity for a period of 10 days or so We had a nice start here but as Greebley pointed out we needed more attention to details. The fact that there is another continent out there , and we still don’t have control of our own is making this game really hard to win, not impossible however. I’d like to see this one going, if even slowly. Maybe forget the roster and just say got it if you want to take a chance at it.

 

[uberfish]

Lurker comment: I strongly disagree that there's only one way to beat immortal/deity, it's just that people naturally tend to play conservatively in SGs. I have gone to Renaissance with my only troops being warriors and chariots and won, but you're very unlikely to see that in a SG.

Good luck if you guys are pressing on.

 

[ThERat]

I respect the views of Gotag and acid and will play out my turns tonight or tomorrow morning.
I try to post some screens then so we can discuss our options properly after that.

So, let's continue this and have a lookm where we end up.

 

[Mutineer]

And the gameplay, sad to say, frankly is simply not addictive enough. I guess it's too balanced and still has a lot of MM that is bothersome.

Where was there one game you had to struggle for a crucial resource?
Where was there a game you could come from really behind?

I tend to disagree. Warmondering not the only one way to win and it is posible to come from far behind even with out war mondering.

Look on this example:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=166814

Game was in a big pile of **** in middle ages, but we survive and actially come technologically on top at the end of game.
One defence war, 0 cities cuptured in all game due to variant restrictions.
Flavless diplomacy win. If diplomacy fail, culture was up.

 

[ThERat]

Gotag, can you play this, I somehow can't get the motivation at the moment. I am sorry, but I hope maybe in the next turnset it will be different.
My 3.4 turns until computer shut down weren't that critical, just play it out. Thanks

 

[Gotag]

I think the "current" save is Greebly's from 1376 as the last one???

I have that and will try and get to it tonight.

Gotag

 

[Greebley]

Yes, my save is the latest - a mere 11 turns after you last played.

 

[Gotag]

Sorry if someone wants to grab this I'll be more then willing to pass it on. If not I'll get to it in a couple of days.

Gotag

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Well as a lurker I am sorry to see this series go.

There is almost nothing left that I follow. Seems like to many members of my old team aren't happy with Civ4.

Same here. AW doesn't work, and 'Come back from behind' by creative brokering/ AI manipulating even less.

 

[Gotag]

I'm very sorry to have to ask for a skip. I'm swamped atm and sadly lacking in motivation.

Gotag