Rat25 - AWE Training Game #2


Feb 7, 2005
Hello everyone, Rat instructed me to start this thread, so that's what I'm doing. The first start I rolled happened to be decent. I have played 20 and will post the log and save at the end of the post.

Difficulty- Emperor
Variant- Always war (I assume no initial trading)
Civ- China
AIs- 7 random
Map settings- standard 60% pan warm, wet, 5 billion, no barbs
AI agression- max, I won't argue with AI to AI wars
Cultural Linked Starts are OFF, tired of playing vs the merkans every game
SCI leaders are ON
Everything else is HoF/GotM standard

Always War-
No initial trading, must declare war on every civ the first turn you meet them and remain at war for the rest of the game. No peace treaties, ever. Pillaging, worker baiting, city baiting, using armies, etc are all fair game.

Roster (copied from previous thread)-
Own- just played
Greebley- up
ansar- on deck

Am I right that gma and Aabra don't have time for this?

Pre-turn- Move worker to wheat, found Beijing in place. I strongly feel that one food is more valuable than a shield and a gold put together, so I work the wheat off the river as opposed to the BG on the river. I figure since they're cheap and we can't build spears, I go for a rax. Research is set at max to bronze working, ETA 30 turns.

1. Start Irrigating the wheat.

2. Ok, I know I'm a trainee, but this is an MM thing that everyone could learn from save Rat and Greebley.

I challenge myself to explain the following in less than 100 words:

You see we need 14 fpt to grow in Beijing. Now a food to me is worth more than shield and gold combined, but just barely. 2 food, however, wins handsdown. The worker will finish the irrigation in 2 turns. If we never switch the citizen from the wheat, we'll get 3 excess fpt next turn, taking us down to 11 needed to grow. But before the turn after that's city cycle, the worker will finish the irrigation, and we'll have 4 fpt. That's bad news, and we'll get overflow. But we won't be able to switch from the wheat to the BG, since that'll take us down to 2 fpt and that won't fill the 3 more foods we need to grow, which will result in more waste. So now, while we can switch to the BG but have it only cost us one food, we need to do it.

Bah, took me 139 words. To save a simple shield and gold.

3. No things happened.

4. Worker finishes irrigation, starts roading. Will finish when Beijing grows in 2.

5. Nothing

6. Beijing grows. Lux up to 20%. Bronze in 18. Worker moves to BG. Beijing is working roaded, irrigated wheat and unmined, unroaded rivered BG.

7. Worker mines the BG. Rax is due in 5 and growth in 4, but it will still affect the rax production time. I turn on emphasize production. This will get us some free shields, but we'll also have to watch cities closer.

8. Zero things happened.

9. Nil

10. Our kulcheril borders expand, reveals some five or six CXXC settling spots all on rivers!

11. Bejing grows. Beijing barracks > archer. Beijing is now size three. One citizen on wheat, one on mined BG, and another on unmined BG. 4 fpt, 4 spt, archer due in 5. Worker just finished mine, and is now roading the same tile. Lux up to 30%. 10g at -1 gpt with bronze working in 13.

12. Nothing

13. Worker finishes road, moves to another BG. We're now at 8g, -1 gpt, with BW in 9.

14. Worker starts roading, as mining won't have an impact on this archers production time nor the next.

15. Nothing.

16. Beijing grows to size four. Beijing archer > settler. If this is reckless, please tell me, but this is what I would do in a solo. I figure that it can be changed to an archer if we come across some baddies and the city it would build already has a road connection to it without river interference, so a baddie appearing after the settler is built can be taken care of. And, seriosly, emperor free units are not scary at all. Worker finishes road, starts mine. Due to new MP and 2 more base commerce from the new citizen working a river BG and the recently completed road, we can drop lux a notch and raise SCI a notch (now at 0.8.2) which takes bronze from 5 turns to 4 turns with 5g and still -1gpt.

17. little to no things happened.

18. Drop SCI to 70%, BW still in two and now we have +0 gpt with 3 in the kitty. SCI could not be dropped more without increasing the research time of BW.

19. SCI is dropped to 50%. BW is due in 1 with a +1 gpt and 3 in the kitty. Lowering SCI to 40% would make BW due in 2 and would only be one beaker less, so we have no beaker overflow on bronze working.

20. Bronze working in, next tect is set to iron working at 80% SCI 20% lux with 4 in the kitty at -1gpt per turn, with IW due in 26. Of course, this is all vetoable. I'm really glad BW came right on my last turn so I don't have to make a decision.

Greebley is up. Feel free to comment, anyone.


  • Rat25_Own_3000BC.SAV
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Nice start you rolled for us:goodjob: I also like that we seem to be in a corner, easier to defend against multiple enemies. Its funny how AW completely changes the tech path; BW and IW are ones I usually trade for in solo games. I am also noticing the Industrious trait speeds the development around the capital. Glad we picked China....
ansar reporting for duty! :salute: :p

First of all, nice start position! :goodjob: River, wheat, and BGs are my favorite.

Looks like plains to the NE, but grasslands to the SW.

Question: Why are we in deficit gold (especially at 4 gold in our treasury?!)
Proposed Solution: Drop science to 70% (IW in 30 turns, +0 gpt)

Settler's going to come out in Greebley's turnset, so I thought about a dotmap.
What does everyone think about it?

I like the west dot best for our first settler, then the SE one next. As far as negative gp, as long as it doesn't dip to -0 causing units or improvements to disappear, It's no biggie. like it better above 10, so the ugly domestic advisor won't nag at me:(
Exactly the dotmap I had in mind. I thought about the SE dot going to the hill, but that city probably won't be on the front so it's no big deal. I was thinking another dot in the fog E-E-E of Beijing.
I considered the hill too, but looked that the tile NE allows:
- CxxC with site SW of the tobacco.
- It's not across a river, so it's TRULY CxxC.

Yeah, another dot EEE of Beijing sounds good to me.
Settling the dot W-W-SW first sounds good to me. Those BGs look nice. :cool:
Preturn: Looks good. IW first seems reasonable in this case so I continue it. Sometimes I like Masonry first for walls or Warrior Code (we got both already) and of course Pottery can be key for certain positions, occasionally something else (for Hittites it would be wheel).
We will build a Settler and have only 1 defender. I will probably handle by putting the Archer 1/2 way between the cities and start a defender.

Early: Build Settler and start Spear. I like having a Spear as Archers alone can't handle 2 units in a row (kill first and the second gets your archer) which is possible with an initial rush (BTW, Spear alone isn't great either - hard to prevent pillaging.

We have a close neighbor as shown in this picture. We put off making contact, but I will almost certainly build more military.

Shanghai built and starts Barracks right away.

Mid: Get Spear and start another.

Late: We get a second Spear.

I am building Archer(s). I build build 4 or so and go after the Red city (probably Rome) with a Spear for defense. I would go onto Tobacco then Mountain. If we are lucky there may be a hill or mountain next to the city for us to defend from. I would not chase after the Capitol with only 4 Archers, but other cities would be fair game. Taking out a city early for our near enemy seems wise to me. Keep cities if we can. The civ may never build any culture losing a city pretty early.

Note that the force strength above is my best guess at "probably adequate even if not so good RNG". This is very hard for me to estimate as luck swings the results widely. Rome does start with Archers.

Worker should build road first. Note that I built a road on the regular Grassland to connect up where worker is purely for mobility reasons. Another difference between AW and a standard game.

Boy, that was quick!

I'll meet up with Rome, I guess. :)

Questions, though:

- How many more archers do I build?
- Right now, with Beijing at size 4, going on size 5 next turn, how do I manage the money?
- Shanghai is going to need MP or up lux. Which one will it be?
- Will Shanghai start producing spearmen after Rax?
looks like a very interesting start. We need to check who that is and then procede with care.
Let's hope we can grab iron soon and expand a little
I would build 4 more Archers but fit in a settler if you are going to hit size 6.

Raise Lux as needed; keeping 2 units in the city should keep Lux lower.

Knocking out a 3rd city is usually worthwhile for a close neighbor rather than simply expanding (essential at SID :D ). The AI is weak at the start so it is a good opportunity. There probably will be 1 or 2 Spear in the city.
I would like to jion as I never played an AW game :)
I'll vouch for Tad, he's been a real asset in my two SG's, and the 2nd is at emperor level. What he lacks in spelling (no offense meant), he makes up for in enthusiasm and being a ferocious warmonger. Since this is a training game, I think he would fit right in.
welcome, Tad...

ansar, don't worry, your grades in school are ultimately more important than CIV. Maybe a good education can enable you a job with plenty of time for CIV :lol:
I need a skip.

My internet is being VERY bad. Losing internet a lot.

Sorry for stalling the team. :sad:
Roster Own-
ansar- skip
ThERat - up
Tad Empire_0_o

will play this tonight

MM for best results. For example, our capital can make 7/7/6 spt for an archer/spear so we can give a better tile to our 2nd city
decide to go for another settler before attacking

meet Dutch exploring warrior

late: in the last interturn, we get IW but have no iron nearby. We settle our 3rd city and have spices next to it
we can now decide which tech to research next, either the wheel for horses or alphabet for the GL and later maths for catapults?

As Greebley suggested, we can build a few more archers and go after red or await the Dutch initial stack
We need more workers for sure, so once the capital grows it should go for another one.

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