Rat26 - Random AWE

ThERat · Dec 7, 2007

save

Pre-Turn
MM and get rid of taxmen and clowns, we should avoid having those really
Incense for example employs a clown, but with MP's can change that. Send MP there and we get a scientist instead.
same for Kadesh

1.960AD
decide to load the army with 2 knight that we can land in Inca land faster
unload 3 units next to Oka

2. 970AD
England has Mil Tradition and our research time drops by a turn

lose a knight but manage to take out 2 iro spears and they are out of the game
land army and 4 more knights in Inca land

3.980AD
reduce science to 20%

move on from Vilcabamba as I saw more units moving in to defend
found Kultepe

IT we get Mil Trad, physics next in 4!!!

4.990AD
found Alisar Huyuk and Hattusas

attack Ollantaytambo, lose a knight, but get a MGL taking out a sword there

5. 1000AD
defeat a single knight landing, then take out the redlined Arab galley and they are also out of the game

6. 1010AD
Tarsus is founded
form cav army and fill it with 2 units, 4 more cavs are loaded onto caravels as well
sink a Inca galley that was most likely loaded with units
science down to 60%

7.1020AD
Land cav army, cavs on mountains next to Vilcabamba

IT Egypt lands 3 knights
physics in, magnetism next

8.1030AD
defeat all 3 landed knights and get yet another MGL, this one will rush the pentagon
spot that babs have landed a settler pair in the north

load the Cav army with a 3rd unit, attack Vilcabamba and raze the city after taking out 8 units
happens that this city was on top of iron

9. 1040AD
raze the new Babs city on our continent
found Silky

taking out a mace/settler pair from Inca, I get a third MGL, but lose a cav in the process

10.1050AD
England now has magnetism (they will get their UU)

from another Cav army and send it back to the other continent, load with 2 more cavs
send out the knight army for scouting purposes

we can found a city on the other continent, because we could block it with 2 armies
I think we should do that for a start on the other continent

I send 2 caravels to be upgraded to horsietown

you can see that we can block a city founded on the iron with 3 armies, or partially block to allow some enemies to attack. I think, if we build a city there, we need to rush walls/rax and then put some proper defense inside

Meanwhile our other armies can go and lay some waste onto the other Civs

ThERat · Dec 7, 2007

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Greebley · Dec 7, 2007

I was suprised too. 4 to 6 sounds like a big improvement but it only makes a 10% difference. I had been upgrading them for a while before I got into a discussion over the merit and discovered the truth.

I wouldn't worry too much about a bad turnset. Overseas invasion is tricky in AW and takes some practice. I have had games where I have lost a number of artillery units or even armies due to a miscalculation.

ThERat · Dec 7, 2007

I agree with what Greebley said, it's fine to have a so so turnset, this game is for you guys to get some experience. I hope you can open saves and compare MM for example. MM can be annoying, but can make a big difference between a good and great player.

The overseas invasion should now be easer as we have 3 armies with 4 units there. Cav armies are the killer unit in the game anyway.

TheOverseer714 · Dec 7, 2007

el_filet said:
i'm surprised to hear that. outdated artillery always seemed to miss a lot. it's not that much better with new ones, so it's quite possible...i trust your math. in that case i wasted lots of money, sry for that. makes a bad turnset even worse...

Now don't get all negative there, filet, you did what you thought was right. These SG's are all about learning, and mistakes will be made. Mistakes are important in any teaching environment. I'm not even sure I would call upgrading bombard units a mistake, more of a personal preference issue. You did fine in your turns.

BTW, I down-loaded the save, so this can be my got-it post also. I will play this afternoon/evening.

TheOverseer714 · Dec 7, 2007

I am looking at the save and have come to a conclusion which leads to a question. Are we going for Conquest or Domination? If Domination is the goal, we are getting close. If Conquest, we're going to need to raze like mad and avoid building or keeping many more cities. It makes a big difference, strategy-wise.

ThERat · Dec 7, 2007

I always find conquest more satisfying

Elephantium · Dec 8, 2007

Conquest sounds good.

TheOverseer714 · Dec 8, 2007

I guess CA 2 only works with the explored map. We are fine, the game has us at 32% land, 38% population, so we still have a ways to go. I think we are ready for a big breakout soon with the Incas. The others may be more difficult, as unescorted galleons are easy meat for English MoWs which are beginning to show up frequently. we might want to get the Incas out of the way first.

TheOverseer714 · Dec 8, 2007

Finished my wimpy turn-set, in which I mostly built stuff and defended against landings. I did get some good news late. Here is my turn-log:

Spoiler :

One Picture:

Hand-off notes: My last combat generated a leader, which I didn’t do anything with. I recommend making it into a 3 unit cavalry army to transport to the other continent. Our 3 4-unit armies are trapped on the Inca Island unless we develop transports to let them escape. There are 2 settlers aimed at getting rid of any lingering fog on our continent, so we get no more barbs eating our treasury. We have one Iroquois settler(no support) heading toward the south for use as a combat settler. I tried to gather the workers into segregated groups to make a faster rail net when Steam arrives. It will take 12 slaves or 6 native workers to make a rail in 1 turn, so I tried to make the groups the right size. The one near Kadesh needs another slave.

And last but not least, the save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/110452/Rat26_Overseer__1150_AD.SAV

el_filet · Dec 8, 2007

mistakes at this time won't cost us the game, but i try to aviod them nevertheless. we can afford upgrades and the lost caravel on iro island was bad luck i'd say. but i really blew the landing, delaying our win.

prefer conquest too, but could live with domination win.

the worker w of huamanga might be just cleaning pollution, but i wouldn't risk letting the incas get saltpeter. with one single slave it will take long, but one turn to upgrade would make this a lot harder.

ThERat · Dec 8, 2007

My fault filling armies with 4 units as I was 100% sure this is the mainland as they have all luxes

TheOverseer714 · Dec 8, 2007

el_filet said:
the worker w of huamanga might be just cleaning pollution, but i wouldn't risk letting the incas get saltpeter. with one single slave it will take long, but one turn to upgrade would make this a lot harder.

Those 2 Cav Armies knocking on the door at Huamanga should dissuade them from doing something like that. Usually, a unit nearby will cause them to withdraw workers into the nearest city. I have no doubt that a pro like Greeb will make short work of the Ol' Parachute Packer.

Greebley · Dec 9, 2007

Ok, I got it and will start playing now.

Greebley · Dec 9, 2007

Raise science to get Steam sooner. It is a tech I don't mind spending our surplus on.
MM it down another turn to 6 turns. Slows town growth a bit but rails will help with that.

Added a few more worker builds as well.

Unmoved army kills 2 units

Worker on Saltpeter will already retreat with our Army so close.

IBT: Babylon landing of a MDI near Tonawanda. Looks like a larger Egyptian landing is heading there too.
Iroquois build new city Arequippa very near us and the city we have already razed.

1160 AD: Leader becomes 3 unit Army. Kill off Babylon MDI. Kill 3 Pike and an ACav in Huamanga capturing the city and the 5 workers that retreated into it. Kill 6 units near out Incan continent city.

1170 AD: Kill troops in Incan lands. Attack Cuzco. Founded 2 cities.

IBT: Huamanga was taken by a Knight. I left it unguarded because of flip risk. We have an army next to it though.

1180 AD: Take back Huamanga. Now size 5. A few more exchanges and we can keep units in the city.
Pillage Incan Iron Attack Cuzco with new Army. Old army Heals.

IBT: Huamanga switches hands again (size 4). Largish Egyptian landing near
Akwesasne (Southwest of Tonawanda).

1190 AD: Capture Huamanga (size 3) Kill a Cav near it.
Cuzco attacked and kill 2 more Pike. New army now needst to heal too. Army near other Incan town now healing (pillaged Iron last turn).
Army kills Musket & 2 Cav of Egyptian landing. Cav kills 3 of 3 MDI and landing is gone.

1200 AD: Founded another City.
Capture Cuzco at long last (it had a wonder). Only wonder is Temple of Zeus so I sell off Improvements and Abandon.
Steam next turn. Towns MM'ed more toward growth for cities with low food (getting steam faster but hurting longer term growth). We also got Elephants when Cuzco fell, so we can fire a bunch of specialists in core cities.
Steam next turn.

1210 AD: Capture Tiwanaka. My hope is that we can eliminate Incans.

IBT: Lose a Galleon to a Man-o-war. Proves there are Man-o-war on our west coasts as well as east.
Got Steam (we have Coal) and we start Electricity to go straight for RP.

1220 AD: Lose a Cav in a stupid attack vs a low def unit (forgot/didn't bother to bombard first).

1230 AD: Capture next two Incan towns - One renamed Hillbound due to unspellable name starting Cori... and Machu Pichu.
We are now up to the choke we could see on previous map with Vitcos on far side. Incans have 3 cities including their capitol. We can only see Vitcos (not capitol) and the borders of one more south.

IBT: We get a Mongol landing on Incan Island.
Egyptian landing near Tonawanda has a Rifleman.

1240 AD: Vitcos Captured and Vilcas found. Looks like current capitol will be S of this.
Lose a Cav vs an Injured Crusader.

1250 AD: Battle at Vilcas was terrible RNG bringing two armies to 2 hp and 4 hp from green. Fortunately it wasn't terrible enough to lose an Army. Cover both injured armies with healthy one.

Notes:
With England in the game, getting to the other continent will be very difficult. I think we should go for Ironclad after RP to defend against England's attack 4. Otherwise we won't make much progress until destroyers.

Incans have 2 cities left and will be out of the game after the injured armies heal. It obvious but until then do not put Armies in Incan cities. A loss of a Cav suppressing resistance is minor, but loss of an army isn't. I also suggest keeping all cities. Even if they flip, getting them back isn't a problem and we have cities with Aquaducts prebuilt greater than size 1.

I am still starving Incan cities, but we can stop at any point as we are close to the end of Incans

Ironmines is rioting. Still happens now and then when I fail to notice it. Oddly, I was using CivAssist II and it also didn't notice (or something else went wrong). I don't think CivAssist works with propoganda, but that wasn't the case here.

Egypt and England have Nationalism. No other industrial techs are known by the AI.

Electricity in 7. Some towns may need Irrigation.

More workers wouldn't hurt. Our railing is on the slow side.

I did mm for science on the final turn

el_filet · Dec 9, 2007

agree on clads. at first i thought about sneaking in factories first, but with incas gone soon we might even get it before rp. with several turns into electricity, doesn't make much sense to do that now.

RP->clads

ThERat · Dec 9, 2007

great progress as usual...now I wonder even more how I could have been so stupid to think the Incan Island is the main continent...feel quite embarassed :blush:

Agree on going for clads...why not, it should be a tech we can get pretty fast anyway

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Elear · Dec 9, 2007

ThERat said:
great progress as usual...now I wonder even more how I could have been so stupid to think the Incan Island is the main continent...feel quite embarassed
Agree on going for clads...why not, it should be a tech we can get pretty fast anyway

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Reading along, I thought it was too. It seemed to make sense..a low peninsula curving into a big continent. I agree though, small mistakes will not affect our eventual win.

Elephantium · Dec 10, 2007

Preturn:

Everything looks good, but I divert a Spear MP from Hubishna to IronMine to help with the happiness issues there.

IT:

Egypt and England bombard Centralia.
English also land cavs near Hillbound.
Salamanca: Workers
Alisar Huyuk: Workers
Bob's Budget Furs: Workers
GLib: Cavs
Allegheny: Workers
Tonawanda: Workers
Segras: Cavs
Centralia: Workers
Tyendenaga: Workers
South's End: Frigates
Vitcos deposes us. We lose one Cav because of it.
Hubishna: Lib->Cav
Hattusas: Harbor->Frigate
Alaca Huyuk: Workers

Turn 1 (1255 AD):

First, I direct my attention to the English forces near Hillbound. Their commander is a stern, unyielding man, and he refuses my invitation to discuss his surrender over tea. Perhaps I shouldn't have sent the invitation via cannonball... :mischief:

(4-0)
Switch Huamanga to Cannon - we don't want to Worker-abandon the city, do we?
Kill the new Pike in Vitcos to retake the city (5-0).
Kill a Longbow in Vilcas and take the city (6-0).

IT:

Mongols request an audience. I send them packing.
More bombardment from the Egyptians and English.
Horsietown: Frigates
IronMine: Cav->Mkt
Samuha: Workers
Yamama: Workers
Malatya: Workers

Turn 2 (1260 AD):

I'm letting armies heal, so the only thing that happens this turn is worker management.

IT:

More bombardment.
English land three Cavs near Huamanga.
Babs land a Longbow next to our Army at Tonawanda.
Incense: Cavs
Vilcas deposes us.
Aden: Frigates

Turn 3 (1265 AD):

We get a Leader while recapturing Vilcas

(7-0).
We kill the Longbow next to Tonawanda with our e3MC...no Leader though (8-0).
Kill the three English interlopers at Huamanga (11-0).
Kill the last Incan defenders in Andahuaylas. We have destroyed the Strong Inca! (14-0).
Settle the city of Emar in the desert near Centralia. Making Worker.
I also bombard a couple of Frigates in Centralia's coastal waters.
Switch Hubishna to Longbow (we could use a few more MPs).
Prevent riots in Fustat and Kahnawake.
Switch Kultepe to Settler - I think we need to focus on filling in our continent a bit more while we get to RP and Ironclads, and we already have plenty of Cannon.
Ditto for Alalah and Tyrana.

IT:

Rat26: Uni->Cav

Turn 4 (1270 AD):

Found New Hattusas near Kahnawake. Making Worker.

IT:

England lands a Cav near Salamanca.
Kahnawake: Cannon->Worker
Adana: Cavs
Treacle: Workers
Egypt completes Shakes.

Turn 5 (1275 AD):

Kill the English cav (15-0).

IT:

Electricity->RP
Tiwanaku: Workers
Hillbound: Workers
Khurasan: Workers
Kadesh: Cav->Settler
Mansura: Musket->Settler
Hubishna: Longbow->Settler
Tarsus: Workers

Turn 6 (1280 AD):

Kill 3 Egyptian invaders on the Inca island (Musket, Crusader, MDI, 18-0).
Kill an identical stack near Salamanca (21-0).
Settle New Tarsus on a hill next to the stack I just killed. Making Worker.

RP is due in 10 turns.

IT:

Mecca: Cav->Settler
Silk City: Cav->Settler
Karatepe: Settlers
Akwesasne: Cannon->Settler
Andahuaylas: Worker->Harbor

Turn 7 (1285 AD):

Found New Ugarit, making Worker.
Kill a Bab MDI, two Egyptian MDIs, and an Egyptian Musket who land near Salamanca (25-0).

IT:

Oh, crap. England lands a RIFLE next to Ugarit. Our post-Ironclads invasion just got a bit tougher.
Ugarit: Workers
Rat26: Cav->Settler
GLib: Cav->Settler
Maccu Picchu: Workers
Horsietown: Frigate->Settler
Segras: Cav->Settler
Kadesh: Settler->Cav
Harran: Workers

Turn 8 (1290 AD):

New Harran founded, making Worker.

IT:

Kummanni: Courthouse->Mkt
Hattusha: Cav->Settler
Incense: Cavs
Ankuwa: Cavs
Mansura: Settlers
Hattusas: Settlers

Turn 9 (1295 AD):

New Hattusha founded. Making Worker.

IT:

Mecca: Settlers
Rat26: Settlers
GLib: Settlers
Segras: Settler->Mkt
Hubishna: Settler->Cav
NE Iron: Settlers
Omaha Beach: Worker->Settler
Palace expansion. We get a second floor in the left wing.

Turn 10 (1300 AD):

New Tyrana founded, making Worker.
New Aleppo founded, making Worker.
New Ankuwa founded, making Worker.
Change South's End and Kadesh to Libs
Change Adana to Mkt
Change Incense to Uni

We're over our unit support limit, so I'd like to slow down cav builds while we research RP and Ironclads. Once those are in, it will be a simple matter of building half a dozen or so ironclads, loading up cavs and arty on galleons, and sailing over to wipe England from the map.

I have a few Settlers standing on roadless squares - I intended for them to settle in place next turn, but that's up to the next player

Spoiler :

ThERat · Dec 10, 2007

wow, what a fast turnaround :goodjob:

by the way, are we going for ToE for the free techs after ironclads?

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Rat26 - Random AWE

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