Rat26 - Random AWE

At this point in the game, I'd probably go with Knight armies. It depends, though; if we're really close (4-5 cities) to clearing our continent or less than 20 turns from Cavs, I'd hold off. It doesn't really need saying that Cav armies are worth their weight in gold.

A save or a screenie would help me evaluate the situation better :)
 
It's still hard to say. I wish we could see more of the Iro territory.

Can you continue a fairly speedy conquest of the Iro cities without the Knight armies? If so, save them.

At this point, I think it might be worth it to make one Knight army and hold the other one until we need more firepower or until we get cavs.
 
(continued log)

Rest of IT: Declare war on England. England building Magellan's Voyage. English complete Magellan's Voyage in London. Lots of boat movements along the shores. Lose one loose knight to an Iroquois knight.

790 AD: Gain Theology, Invention, Printing Press, Education, Gunpowder, Banking, Astronomy, Navigation, and Economics from the Great Library. Would have been nice to get Chemistry too, but no luck. Start research on Chemistry @ 50 percent: Chemistry in 15 turns @ +23gpt. 60 percent would only cut a turn off Chemistry but cut gpt to +7gpt. As for some other good news...we have a source of saltpeter! Declare war on Egypt. Use catapults to bombard a pikeman-settler pair to redline. Destroy it with an elite knight. Random MM. Start the march towards Salamanca. (Combat: 13-4)

IT: zz

800 AD: zzz

IT: Some barbarians appear in the north. I'll need to get a few troops up there to prevent that while waiting for the settlers,

810 AD: Lose an elite pikeman trying to beat a longbow (for a leader), too bad it didn't work. Raze Niagra Falls. (Combat: 18-6)

IT: Barbs suicide against a Knight, and promote him. English caravel passes to the west. Egypt caravel passes to the east.

820 AD: Dispere barbarian camp and get 25 gold for it. Capture Salamanca, losing only one knight. Bombardment made it easy for elites to attack. Get another leader and make him into an army at Salamanca. Load in all the troops I can, and try to squash the resistance. Start on some infrastructure. (Combat: 21-7)

IT: Various galley moves, including the annoying Arabic galley which I'm certain contains a settler. It seems all of them are just exploring, as there are no landings. We can build the Pentagon. Horsietown riots, missed that. No Iroquois counter attack at all, seems like they are just exhausted. Only 1 resister rid of in Salamanca.

830 AD: Manage a few builds, then start in on the war front. I decide to keep one army empty in our core, and the other (which is in Salamanca), I fill with Knights. This seems like a fairly obvious course of action, as it will help immensely in the speed of finishing the Iroquois. Rush a pikemen towards Salamanca, empty the city of troops, and leave a veteran Knight outside the city. Start to starve Salamanca. Bombard the last known Iroquois horses with catapults. (Combat: 21-7)

IT: More boat moves, an Iroquois longbow moves to attack one of the Knights, but is out of range. An Iroquois pikemen makes a beeline towards some workers.

840 AD: Ready some forces for an assault on the new capital to the north: Tonawanda. Move forces towards Allegheny. Move a pikeman into Salamanca. Raze Grand River. Find the Iroquois have still more horses!! (Combat: 26-7)

IT: More boat moves, a few random Iroquois troops move, and Babylon calls up. I declare war.

850 AD: Capture Kahnawake. Bombard Allegheny and Tonawanda. Capture Allegheny. (Combat: 34-8)

Spoiler :
iroquoislands850.JPG


Post-turn: Pretty straightforward set. Got through most of the Iroquois core, and popped 2 leaders. Both leaders made into armies; one is filled with Knights, the other is just sitting safely in our core. Should be trivial to finish off the Iroquois mainland cities.

Biggest concerns are landings on either coast, although the AI is inept at them. East coast is probably a more dangerous coast. Barbs may pop up in the north if you aren't careful while waiting for settlers. Working on several caravels, and one is already complete. Research on Chemistry going well; Salamanca with Leo's hasn't flipped. Have started making some infrastructure (Banks, Markets, Libraries) so we can keep researching technologies. I don't know what we plan to do invasion-wise, but I'm guessing that is where cavalry comes in. It would be nice to pop another leader or two from the Iroquois.

Oh, and there is a random Iroquois pikeman chasing our workers. He'll have to be destroyed somehow.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104555/Rat26_AD850.SAV

-Elear
 
Sounds like good progress.

Getting techs past education is always nice.

Note that we can look to see what the AI has above us via diplomacy, so looking isn't a problem. Only 'blind aw' disallows that.

I would go at MAX science to get Cavalry. Getting Cav before the AI is a big advantage. That is the best use for the saved gold.
 
Looks like we are making good progress. Hopefully we can eliminate Iro's fast to get of the flip risks. Once we have confirmed that there is no more enemy on our Island, we need to get to astronomy and send out some scouting caravels.

Roster
El Filet - up
ThERat
TheOverseer714
Greebley
Elephantium
Elear
 
Maybe you missed it, but we got Astronomy from the GL. I have been building caravels. (at 850 ad: 3 in production, 1 produced)
 
Gain Theology, Invention, Printing Press, Education, Gunpowder, Banking, Astronomy, Navigation, and Economics from the Great Library. Would have been nice to get Chemistry too, but no luck.
I really missed that :crazyeye: this is actually great news.
 
i got it.

will take care of our continent first and hopfully get rid of iros.
not so sure about pumping all our saved money in beakers. ferrying knights and massupgrade in rushed rax/harbor might be a better way to get cavs on the front asap.
 
That is what I thought. I wanted research to be just enough to actually get anywhere, but still saving a little money, and not depleting our savings from the GL era. Since we have Leo's, mass upgrade is actually feasible...
 
I find upgrading very inefficient vs fast science. Getting Cav's ASAP is best done by fastest science. Mil Academy and also getting to Rails are also huge.

Rails especially mean you no longer have to use units to defend every city which frees up most of your units.

For these reasons, I almost automatically use the saved cash for max science these days in AW.

We should also only put 3 (not 4) units in each army starting now Every army we put 4 units in will be stuck on our continent likely for the remainder of the game (we will not get to transports). Note that this is not a problem yet as we haven't built Pentagon, but it means we are not in a rush to build it until we can get to the other continent.

Once we can land armies on a continent we know is a major one, then we can merge the 4th unit in after landing.
 
Max science until steam, then shut it down makes sense. Once we got rails in Rat 25, the game became a mop-up operation. The AI's just can't handle the tactics that use rails and massed cannons. Once we get a base on the other continent and get the armies over there, then we're in business. I'd rather build cav's sooner than wait longer to get them because we are saving for mass upgrades.
 
Agree with Greebley, max science (in fact deficit research) to get to steam as soon as possible. There is no point hoarding knights to upgrade them later.

We want superior units and armies (Cav armies totally rule the world until tanks) as soon as possible.
 
:bump:

el-filet, are you playing or do you need a skip
 
turns take longer and longer, have 6 down.
if i can't finish tonight i'll post the save after six.

iros are gone from continent, but sunk my caraval on way to their island NW. started a badly planned invasion on inca home land and got beaten (forgot about their AC).
 
with almost no fighting during the last turns and not as much time for mm as usual, the last turns went on pretty quickly.
a badly planned invasion resulted in a horrible kill ratio. next player should be set up to avoid such failure.
did not fill one army to enable next player to build army on next (mostly unknown) continent.

still think upgrades would bring cavs faster to the frontline, but rails are more then enough reason to go for science.

Turn 0:
max science brings chemistry down to 3 turns.
lots of land to fill, many settlers in production
frontline streched, but with iros very weak i'll push further
rush caravel in akwesane
switch most markets to libs

IBT:
egypt spear lands next to kahnawake
iro pike captures worker
salamanca disposes
resistance in kahnawake ends


Turn 1:
capture tyandenaga (4-0)
capture tonawanda (and ask myself why i didn't raze it) (5-0)
get leader (6-0)
reduce science, still in 2

IBT:
egypt probably unloaded some unit in the fog in the west


Turn 2:
recapture salamance (8-0)
capture st. regis (10-0)
science to 70% (1 turn)

IBT:
orange boats floating around in the east
chemistry->metallurgy (in 8)


Turn 3:
fully healed mdi army barely wins agains pike in centralia
get rid of egytian settler (13-0)
capture cattaraugus (15-1)

IBT:
egypt and iros unload on NW coast
incas attack our force on their island (17-1)
Resistance in Allegheny ended, riots
English start Bach


Turn 4:
capture centralia (19-1)

IBT:
babs start bach
deny audience to incas
we get leader defending against incan swords and AC
and lose it against incan sod (23-5)
egypt start bach too
incas land units near kufah


Turn 5:
abandon Kufah
capture egytian settler (24-5)

IBT:
iros destroy caravel ready to ship units to their island city :(
incas attack our knight near ex-kufah (25-6)


Turn 6:
get rid of incan units (29-6)

IBT:
declare on mongols


Turn 7:
fail to destroy bombarded arab galley (29-7)

IBT:
cleo lands muskets and 2 crusaders


Turn 8:
science to 60%, metallurgy next turn

IBT:
crusaders kill knight in akwesasne, but lose to pike
metallurgy->MT (7 turns)


Turn 9:
kill egyptian units
barbs spawned in the iro marshes

IBT:
cleo lands another musket, beth mi and warriors


Turn 10:
kill some units (~36-8)
settung up next player for attack.


Notes to next player:
landings occured on both sides around akwesasne and a singe landing each near ex-kufah and centralia.
upgraded most cats to trebs, some to cannon already. some are still in iro lands, for landings or invading mongols or babs. some on their way to akwesawne for landings. most in or around aden, where i rally forces for a real invasion of the incas.
used workers to road some shortcuts and moved most toward core.
we should consider disconnecting the roads of a useful city, to produce some cheap mp.
didn't want to risk our units in resisting cities, especially tonawande. expected iros to be gone sooner, small invasion force ready in yalburt.
keep in mind, vilcabamba is built on iron. destroing it might be a pretty hard blow to incas.
 

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FYI:
I once did the math and realized that upgrading cats to trebs or cats and trebs to cannon isn't worth the money. It takes about 300 gold to do a single extra point of damage for cat -> treb and treb-> cannon is worse.

I was actually trying to prove the opposite (that they are worth upgrading) and found I was wrong.
 
i'm surprised to hear that. outdated artillery always seemed to miss a lot. it's not that much better with new ones, so it's quite possible...i trust your math. in that case i wasted lots of money, sry for that. makes a bad turnset even worse...
 
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