Rate the Beliefs - part I: Pantheon beliefs

[Halcyan2]

They apply the same bonus. One applies to river cities, which can't be all your cities, unless you're really lucky or editing the map. The other applies to all your cities that reach at least size 6. You can make all your cities reach size 6. You can'tmake all your cities riverside, until they add the digging-the-Panama-Canal wonder.

Your starting position might not be near a river, but other than that, you *can* make sure your other cities are on rivers.

You don't need to edit a map. You just focus on river sites, just like how some people will focus on coastal sites or particular luxury sites. Rivers have so many advantages anyway (free gold + irrigated farms + Watermill/Garden/Hydro Plant + defensive options) that on vanilla games I will ideally try to found my cities on rivers if at all possible.

Maybe this is a case of chicken or the egg. Do you choose your city sites first and then choose a pantheon based on it? Or do you choose some of your city sites based on your pantheon belief? Or a combination of both?

By random chance, it is unlikely that all your cities will have wine/incense or gold/silver but if you decide you want that pantheon, you simply settle your cities intentionally near those particular resources. Same thing with rivers.

Of course this might work better for players who are comfortable settling their cities far apart (I will do this for natural wonders, even if I am not Spain). I do realize that some people like to clump all their cities next to each other, in which case they are far more limited in terms of geography!

 

[Rooftrellen]

Faith generating beliefs can be very good.

However, there is the downside that if you spread your religion to other civs, the faith generating effects will simply help the others civs get their own religion which will then compete with yours.

That can be a downside, or an upside. I'll assume that your belief will benefit your neighbors and it does spread to them AND that boost is the difference of them getting a religion or not (a lot to assume, overall).

Yes, it is another religion to compete with near you, which can be a problem, but it's a religion that could be easy to snuff out. A religion that is founded on the other side of the world is likely to get well founded before you can do much about it, but a nearby religion can be forced into near nothingness with missionaries and passive pressure, or more extreme with conquest and inquisitors.

 

[dasnowflake]

- Ancestor Worship: +1 Culture for every Shrine in your civilization

why is this not awesome?
i go wide + mayans, so I build a shrine anyway, basically turns every Pyramid into a 1/2 monument, very early game

of course, mess of the gods is also great for that

 

[Morningcalm]

Right, but the net effect is so minimal. Sacred Path is usually better, unless you have a REALLY wide empire with nearly ALL its cities having shrines.

 

[kaspergm]

Thanx to those who did vote, even though there is obviously a large part of situationality in all beliefs, I still appreciate the attempt to evaluate them against each other.

So far, 12 people have voted. Interestingly, no belief scores above 4.5 in average although a couple lie just around this mark, and scores are fairly uniform which indicates to me that the beliefs are fairly well balanced, with a couple of them being underpowered but none of them being (severely) overpowered compared to the rest.

In the top end, Fertility Rites (4.3) and Messenger Of The Gods (4.1) has the lead, while Desert Folklore (3.5) and Stone Circles (3.4) also score well. In the bottom end, Religious Settlements (1.4) currently holds a place as worst belief followed closely by Dance Of The Aurora (1.5), also scoring below 2 but with a margin to those two are Ancestor Worships (1.9) and God Of War (2.0). The current average is listed below.

1.9 - Ancestor Worship: +1 Culture for every Shrine in your civilization
1.5 - Dance of the Aurora: +1 Faith from Tundra tiles without Forest
3.5 - Desert Folklore: +1 Faith from Desert tiles
2.5 - Faith Healers: +30 HP healed per turn if adjacent to a friendly city
4.3 - Fertility Rites: 10% faster Growth Rate
2.9 - God of Craftsmen: +1 Production in cities with population of 3+
2.8 - God of the Open Sky: +1 Culture from Pastures
2.9 - God of the Sea: +1 Production from Fishing Boats
2.0 - God of War: Gain Faith if you win a battle within 4 tiles if your city
3.1 - Goddess of Festivals: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Wine and Incense
2.7 - Goddess of Love: +1 Happiness from cities with population of 6+
2.7 - Goddess of Protection: +30% increase in city Ranged Combat Strength
3.2 - Goddess of the Hunt: +1 Food from Hunting Camps
4.1 - Messenger of the Gods: +2 Science in cities with a Trade Route
2.9 - Monument to the Gods: +15% Production of Ancient/Classical Wonders
2.4 - One with Nature: +2 Faith from Natural Wonders
3.0 - Oral Tradition: +1 Culture from Plantations
3.0 - Religious Idols: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Gold and Silver
1.4 - Religious Settlements: +15% faster border growth
3.3 - Sacred Path: +1 Culture from Jungle tiles
3.0 - Sacred Waters: +1 Happiness from cities on rivers
3.4 - Stone Circles: +2 Faith from Quarries

PS: I still take votes in this to establish a broader data base.

 

[Stalker0]

I think faith healers should get a second look, I think several people rated it way too low. for a conquest game, it is absolutely amazing. You can heal your armies lightning fast and continue assault. Please it makes city defense a snap.

 

[Crafty Bison]

note that, especiaally in mp, the pantheon acts as a follower belief, so it makes it much tougher to conquer the cit in the first place.

 

[bc1]

I still take votes in this to establish a broader data base.

Context: SP deity (rarely have opportunity to focus on faith)
1 - Ancestor Worship: +1 Culture for every Shrine in your civilization
0 - Dance of the Aurora: +1 Faith from Tundra tiles without Forest
0 - Desert Folklore: +1 Faith from Desert tiles
3 - Faith Healers: +30 HP healed per turn if adjacent to a friendly city
5 - Fertility Rites: 10% faster Growth Rate
3 - God of Craftsmen: +1 Production in cities with population of 3+
1 - God of the Open Sky: +1 Culture from Pastures
1 - God of the Sea: +1 Production from Fishing Boats
0 - God of War: Gain Faith if you win a battle within 4 tiles if your city
1 - Goddess of Festivals: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Wine and Incense
4 - Goddess of Love: +1 Happiness from cities with population of 6+
3 - Goddess of Protection: +30% increase in city Ranged Combat Strength
2 - Goddess of the Hunt: +1 Food from Hunting Camps
3 - Messenger of the Gods: +2 Science in cities with a Trade Route
2 - Monument to the Gods: +15% Production of Ancient/Classical Wonders
0 - One with Nature: +2 Faith from Natural Wonders
1 - Oral Tradition: +1 Culture from Plantations
1 - Religious Idols: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Gold and Silver
3 - Religious Settlements: +15% faster border growth
1 - Sacred Path: +1 Culture from Jungle tiles
3 - Sacred Waters: +1 Happiness from cities on rivers
1 - Stone Circles: +2 Faith from Quarries

 

[JFM2796]

Has anyone else noticed how abundant starts with a ton of silver are in Gods and Kings? Maybe its just me but I have had a lot of games were I had a silver heavy start, begging me to take Religous Idols.

 

[NotSure]

5 = Excellent
4 = Very good
3 = Good
2 = Decent
1 = Poor
0 = Bad or Very Bad

2 - Ancestor Worship: +1 Culture for every Shrine in your civilization
0 - Dance of the Aurora: +1 Faith from Tundra tiles without Forest
4 - Desert Folklore: +1 Faith from Desert tiles
3 - Faith Healers: +30 HP healed per turn if adjacent to a friendly city
3 - Fertility Rites: 10% faster Growth Rate
3 - God of Craftsmen: +1 Production in cities with population of 3+
1 - God of the Open Sky: +1 Culture from Pastures
2 - God of the Sea: +1 Production from Fishing Boats
0 - God of War: Gain Faith if you win a battle within 4 tiles if your city
4 - Goddess of Festivals: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Wine and Incense
3 - Goddess of Love: +1 Happiness from cities with population of 6+
3 - Goddess of Protection: +30% increase in city Ranged Combat Strength
2 - Goddess of the Hunt: +1 Food from Hunting Camps
3 - Messenger of the Gods: +2 Science in cities with a Trade Route
2 - Monument to the Gods: +15% Production of Ancient/Classical Wonders
0 - One with Nature: +2 Faith from Natural Wonders
1 - Oral Tradition: +1 Culture from Plantations
3 - Religious Idols: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Gold and Silver
2 - Religious Settlements: +15% faster border growth
1 - Sacred Path: +1 Culture from Jungle tiles
2 - Sacred Waters: +1 Happiness from cities on rivers
4 - Stone Circles: +2 Faith from Quarries

Faith Pantheons
I rate Stone Circles, Goddess of Festivals, Religious Idols and Desert Folklore high because it is possible on most maps to get a starting location that provides significant faith from these pantheons. Obviously the best kick start is a civ with a religious bonus, a ruin, or natural wonder, but once I can get one of these pantheons I usually have enough faith from terrain alone to found a religion without the need to take Piety policies. I've never had the opportunity to do the same with tundra starts or One with Nature. Those just seem way too rare (I'm thinking tundra mines and multiple natural wonders) to rate high.

Culture Pantheons
They just seem a little weak.

Other Non-Faith Pantheons
Pantheons like Messenger of the Gods, God of Craftsmen, God of the Sea, Faith Healers and Goddess of Love are pretty good. The only reasons I rate these pantheons slightly lower than the faith pantheons is because, if I'm not playing as the Maya, Celts or Ethiopia, I'm going to need the faith more than the other bonuses, and I really want to stay away from the Piety policies.

 

[HurricaneKnapp]

3 - Ancestor Worship: +1 Culture for every Shrine in your civilization
Not bad. I tend to like buildings having multiple effects
0 - Dance of the Aurora: +1 Faith from Tundra tiles without Forest
First, it's tundra, and I just restart if I end up in tundra. If there are only a few tundra tiles, it
isn't worth working them to get faith. In general, using Faith to get more Faith seems
counterproductive.
1 - Desert Folklore: +1 Faith from Desert tiles
Same, but not quite as bad as Tundra.
5 - Faith Healers: +30 HP healed per turn if adjacent to a friendly city
Excellent ability for conquering and moving on quickly. Just have to be careful about where
your religion spreads.
3 - Fertility Rites: 10% faster Growth Rate
Meh. Not bad, not great.
4 - God of Craftsmen: +1 Production in cities with population of 3+
Really like this one in a wide empire.
3 - God of the Open Sky: +1 Culture from Pastures
Not bad if you have the terrain for it.
4 - God of the Sea: +1 Production from Fishing Boats
I love Coastal cities, and getting more from them is great.
0 - God of War: Gain Faith if you win a battle within 4 tiles if your city
There are no circumstances under which I would take this.
4 - Goddess of Festivals: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Wine and Incense
Excellent if you have the resources.
2 - Goddess of Love: +1 Happiness from cities with population of 6+
The price is a bit steep for little reward. Maybe at population 4 I'd like it, but alas.
3 - Goddess of Protection: +30% increase in city Ranged Combat Strength
Never used it, but I suppose it could be decent in certain circumstances.
2 - Goddess of the Hunt: +1 Food from Hunting Camps
I imagine if you really need the extra food from hunting camps, you are in tundra area, and
this would be better than Dance of the Aurora.
5 - Messenger of the Gods: +2 Science in cities with a Trade Route
Love it in a wide empire.
3 - Monument to the Gods: +15% Production of Ancient/Classical Wonders
Meh.
0 - One with Nature: +2 Faith from Natural Wonders
A lot of NWs already give faith, and I wouldn't use it just to get more.
2 - Oral Tradition: +1 Culture from Plantations
Not bad, but if you have plantations and they aren't wine or incense, I'd probably still pick
something else.
4 - Religious Idols: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Gold and Silver
Love Gold and Silver, so what's not to like about getting more from them?
0 - Religious Settlements: +15% faster border growth
Would never get it.
3 - Sacred Path: +1 Culture from Jungle tiles
I often restart with too much jungle, but I could see taking this in certain situations.
4 - Sacred Waters: +1 Happiness from cities on rivers
Yeah, happiness is easy to get, but what's not to love about not having to get it?
3 - Stone Circles: +2 Faith from Quarries
I suppose if you were intent on founding a religion and had no other sources of Faith, this
wouldn't be bad.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

I took god of war once because I planned on fighting a lot. Then I realized I would have gotten more and consistent faith from one with nature since I had a natural wonder.

 

[jungleman3955]

3 - Ancestor Worship: +1 Culture for every Shrine in your civilization
3 - Dance of the Aurora: +1 Faith from Tundra tiles without Forest
3 - Desert Folklore: +1 Faith from Desert tiles
0 - Faith Healers: +30 HP healed per turn if adjacent to a friendly city
5 - Fertility Rites: 10% faster Growth Rate
2 - God of Craftsmen: +1 Production in cities with population of 3+
2 - God of the Open Sky: +1 Culture from Pastures
3 - God of the Sea: +1 Production from Fishing Boats
0 - God of War: Gain Faith if you win a battle within 4 tiles if your city
2 - Goddess of Festivals: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Wine and Incense
3 - Goddess of Love: +1 Happiness from cities with population of 6+
2 - Goddess of Protection: +30% increase in city Ranged Combat Strength
2 - Goddess of the Hunt: +1 Food from Hunting Camps
5 - Messenger of the Gods: +2 Science in cities with a Trade Route
2 - Monument to the Gods: +15% Production of Ancient/Classical Wonders
4 - One with Nature: +4 Faith from Natural Wonders
3 - Oral Tradition: +1 Culture from Plantations
3 - Religious Idols: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Gold and Silver
2 - Religious Settlements: +15% faster border growth
4 - Sacred Path: +1 Culture from Jungle tiles
3 - Sacred Waters: +1 Happiness from cities on rivers
3 - Stone Circles: +2 Faith from Quarries

 

[Unresolved]

1 - Ancestor Worship: +1 Culture for every Shrine in your civilization
1 - Dance of the Aurora: +1 Faith from Tundra tiles without Forest
5 - Desert Folklore: +1 Faith from Desert tiles
3 - Faith Healers: +30 HP healed per turn if adjacent to a friendly city
4 - Fertility Rites: 10% faster Growth Rate
2 - God of Craftsmen: +1 Production in cities with population of 3+
1 - God of the Open Sky: +1 Culture from Pastures
3 - God of the Sea: +1 Production from Fishing Boats
1 - God of War: Gain Faith if you win a battle within 4 tiles if your city
2 - Goddess of Festivals: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Wine and Incense
2 - Goddess of Love: +1 Happiness from cities with population of 6+
1 - Goddess of Protection: +30% increase in city Ranged Combat Strength
3 - Goddess of the Hunt: +1 Food from Hunting Camps
4 - Messenger of the Gods: +2 Science in cities with a Trade Route
1 - Monument to the Gods: +15% Production of Ancient/Classical Wonders
3 - One with Nature: +4 Faith from Natural Wonders
1 - Oral Tradition: +1 Culture from Plantations
3 - Religious Idols: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Gold and Silver
0 - Religious Settlements: +15% faster border growth
1 - Sacred Path: +1 Culture from Jungle tiles
2 - Sacred Waters: +1 Happiness from cities on rivers
3 - Stone Circles: +2 Faith from Quarries

I dislike every pantheon which gives only culture. The amount is far too small and possibly counter-productive if you get a 7th policy before the Renaissance Era. All the terrain-faith pantheons(barring Dance of the Aurora) are rated medium to high because they are the best way to found a religion. Happiness ones are 'okay', but there are far better happiness boosts when you found a religion. Religious Settlements is just awful and you should be ashamed if you pick it .

 

[NuOmicronMu]

3 - Ancestor Worship: +1 Culture for every Shrine in your civilization
2 - Dance of the Aurora: +1 Faith from Tundra tiles without Forest
4 - Desert Folklore: +1 Faith from Desert tiles
2 - Faith Healers: +30 HP healed per turn if adjacent to a friendly city
4 - Fertility Rites: 10% faster Growth Rate
2 - God of Craftsmen: +1 Production in cities with population of 3+
4 - God of the Open Sky: +1 Culture from Pastures
3 - God of the Sea: +1 Production from Fishing Boats
1 - God of War: Gain Faith if you win a battle within 4 tiles if your city
3 - Goddess of Festivals: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Wine and Incense
3 - Goddess of Love: +1 Happiness from cities with population of 6+
3 - Goddess of Protection: +30% increase in city Ranged Combat Strength
3 - Goddess of the Hunt: +1 Food from Hunting Camps
4 - Messenger of the Gods: +2 Science in cities with a Trade Route
0 - Monument to the Gods: +15% Production of Ancient/Classical Wonders
2 - One with Nature: +4 Faith from Natural Wonders
4 - Oral Tradition: +1 Culture from Plantations
4 - Religious Idols: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Gold and Silver
2 - Religious Settlements: +15% faster border growth
4 - Sacred Path: +1 Culture from Jungle tiles
2 - Sacred Waters: +1 Happiness from cities on rivers
4 - Stone Circles: +2 Faith from Quarries

 

[Dogmouth]

3 - Ancestor Worship: +1 Culture for every Shrine in your civilization
3 - Dance of the Aurora: +1 Faith from Tundra tiles without Forest
5 - Desert Folklore: +1 Faith from Desert tiles (The fact that it works in floodplains is insane. Bonus points for not helping your enemies most of the time.)
2 - Faith Healers: +30 HP healed per turn if adjacent to a friendly city
4 - Fertility Rites: 10% faster Growth Rate
2 - God of Craftsmen: +1 Production in cities with population of 3+
3 - God of the Open Sky: +1 Culture from Pastures
4 - God of the Sea: +1 Production from Fishing Boats (Awesome on water maps)
1 - God of War: Gain Faith if you win a battle within 4 tiles if your city
3 - Goddess of Festivals: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Wine and Incense (can be good, but wine and incense are typically tiles that I don't like working)
3 - Goddess of Love: +1 Happiness from cities with population of 6+
2 - Goddess of Protection: +30% increase in city Ranged Combat Strength
3 - Goddess of the Hunt: +1 Food from Hunting Camps
3 - Messenger of the Gods: +2 Science in cities with a Trade Route (overrated)
4 - Monument to the Gods: +15% Production of Ancient/Classical Wonders (pretty handy on immortal and below)
4 - One with Nature: +2 Faith from Natural Wonders (always good, and downright insane as Spain)
3 - Oral Tradition: +1 Culture from Plantations
4 - Religious Idols: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Gold and Silver (better than Goddess of Festivals, because the tiles are more workable)
2 - Religious Settlements: +15% faster border growth (Tradition opener's weak cousin. If you want better border growth, take a culture pantheon and use the bonus culture to buy the Tradition opener).
4 - Sacred Path: +1 Culture from Jungle tiles (insane on the right maps)
2 - Sacred Waters: +1 Happiness from cities on rivers
4 - Stone Circles: +2 Faith from Quarries

 

[Evie94]

2: Ancestor Worship: +1 Culture for every Shrine in your civilization
3: Dance of the Aurora: +1 Faith from Tundra tiles without Forest
4: Desert Folklore: +1 Faith from Desert tiles
2: Faith Healers: +30 HP healed per turn if adjacent to a friendly city
4: Fertility Rites: 10% faster Growth Rate
3: God of Craftsmen: +1 Production in cities with population of 3+
5: God of the Open Sky: +1 Culture from Pastures
4: God of the Sea: +1 Production from Fishing Boats
3: God of War: Gain Faith if you win a battle within 4 tiles if your city
5: Goddess of Festivals: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Wine and Incense
4: Goddess of Love: +1 Happiness from cities with population of 6+
2: Goddess of Protection: +30% increase in city Ranged Combat Strength
5: Goddess of the Hunt: +1 Food from Hunting Camps
2: Messenger of the Gods: +2 Science in cities with a Trade Route
3: Monument to the Gods: +15% Production of Ancient/Classical Wonders
3: One with Nature: +2 Faith from Natural Wonders
4: Oral Tradition: +1 Culture from Plantations
5: Religious Idols: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Gold and Silver
2: Religious Settlements: +15% faster border growth
4: Sacred Path: +1 Culture from Jungle tiles
3: Sacred Waters: +1 Happiness from cities on rivers
3: Stone Circles: +2 Faith from Quarries

 

[legowarrior]

This deserves the elimination game.

 

[Browd]

No point. The pantheons are so terrain and situation dependent that even Desert Folklore would be eliminated, leaving Fertility Rights as the only one likely to be left standing -- even though it is inferior to probably half the other pantheon beliefs, if the terrain is right.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

I don't mind that some are better than others (i.e. universally useful) as long as the lesser ones are situational in a way that they could be very competitive if the situation is right.