Rationalism change and usual "balance changes" leading to no balance at all

[criZp]

Boosted yields from power must have been patched in somewhat recently, then.

 

[Pietato]

'Alchemical Society' enjoys the +2 Science from Isaac Newton ability (+2 Science to Universities) and from the 'Rationalism' policy card, but does not enjoy from the +2 Science from City-State's third Envoys' bonuses toward Universities. Why? (tested with Korea)

Wow. Hermetic Order back to bottom tier.

 

[Ticio]

Not sure if I'm misunderstanding but I didn't try to factor missions into the placement of those districts, or at least it took a backseat to even the holy sites since I was actually using work ethic like you mentioned. Likewise all the campuses are placed pretty much without regard for missions, so their adjacency alone should be reflective of "default" placement which was all I wanted to make a point about.

I was just curious because Spain is one of the few civs that do not profit from rationalism nor work ethic, as they have to let the surrounding tiles free for Missions (the same for the GP that convert adjacency on bonuses). I just thought it was an estrange pick for the test but the results are clear! (It also made me think if it's better to achieve Rationalism with spain or contruct missions... I need to check it!!)

Wow. Hermetic Order back to bottom tier.

It must be a bug... I hope they correct it as the bonus from science city states is quite important!

 

[Aurelesk]

Wow. Hermetic Order back to bottom tier.

This seems even weirder than that. I am playing with the Mayan and currently I found out that the 'Alchemical Society' building may enjoy or may not enjoy some of the third Envoys from the +2 Science from City-State's third Envoys' bonuses toward Universities.

Let me show you:

• Capital
  • Without Rationalism (0%): Library at 8, Alchemical Society at 10, and Research Lab (Unpowered) at 21
  • With Rationalism (100%): Library at 10, Alchemical Society at 14, and Research Lab (Unpowered) at 24.
• Other city:
  • Without Rationalism (0%): Library at 8, Alchemical Society at 16, and Research Lab (Unpowered) at 21.
  • With Rationalism (50%): Library at 9, Alchemical Society at 18, and Research Lab (Unpowered) at 22.5.

See how the numbers without Rationalism is the same for both cities, except for the Alchemical Society. How suspicious!

• Library: 8 for both of them. The formula is: 2 + 6 × 1 = 8. 2 being the Library base Science, 6 the number of Cities-State, and 1 the Science given for 1 Envoy.
• Research Lab: 21 for both of them. The formula is: 3 + 6 × 3 = 21. 3 being the Research base Science when unpowered, 6 the number of Cities-State, and 3 the Science given for 6 Envoys.
• Alchemical Society: 10 and 16. The formula should also be: 4 + x × 2. 4, being the Alchemical Society base Science, x the number of Cities-State, and 2 the Science given for 3 Envoys.
  • For 4 + x × 2 = 10, x = 3, so the Capital is enjoying only the bonus of 3 Cities-States.
  • For 4 + x × 2 = 16, x = 6, so the other city is enjoying the bonus of 6 Cities-States.

My hypothesis is that it depends at how many City-State you discovered at the time you build the Alchemical Society. Here I guess I built the Observatory and the Alchemical Society in the Capital when I had only met 3 of the Scientific Cities-State, and 6 of them when I built them in the other city.

I started all my testing game in the Atomic era, so maybe the problem does not appear when starting in earlier era. Well, so much mysteries!

 

[The googles do nothing]

I've never like that rationalism and the similar cards have bonus for adjacency. There's already cards to double adjacency bonuses. I assume everyone who's played this game several times immediately starts looking for high adjacency campus spots on turn 0.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Pillage More Science Tiles!

 

[Pfeffersack]

This seems even weirder than that. I am playing with the Mayan and currently I found out that the 'Alchemical Society' building may enjoy or may not enjoy some of the third Envoys from the +2 Science from City-State's third Envoys' bonuses toward Universities.

Let me show you:

• Capital
  • Without Rationalism (0%): Library at 8, Alchemical Society at 10, and Research Lab (Unpowered) at 21
  • With Rationalism (100%): Library at 10, Alchemical Society at 14, and Research Lab (Unpowered) at 24.
• Other city:
  • Without Rationalism (0%): Library at 8, Alchemical Society at 16, and Research Lab (Unpowered) at 21.
  • With Rationalism (50%): Library at 9, Alchemical Society at 18, and Research Lab (Unpowered) at 22.5.

See how the numbers without Rationalism is the same for both cities, except for the Alchemical Society. How suspicious!

• Library: 8 for both of them. The formula is: 2 + 6 × 1 = 8. 2 being the Library base Science, 6 the number of Cities-State, and 1 the Science given for 1 Envoy.
• Research Lab: 21 for both of them. The formula is: 3 + 6 × 3 = 21. 3 being the Research base Science when unpowered, 6 the number of Cities-State, and 3 the Science given for 6 Envoys.
• Alchemical Society: 10 and 16. The formula should also be: 4 + x × 2. 4, being the Alchemical Society base Science, x the number of Cities-State, and 2 the Science given for 3 Envoys.
  • For 4 + x × 2 = 10, x = 3, so the Capital is enjoying only the bonus of 3 Cities-States.
  • For 4 + x × 2 = 16, x = 6, so the other city is enjoying the bonus of 6 Cities-States.

My hypothesis is that it depends at how many City-State you discovered at the time you build the Alchemical Society. Here I guess I built the Observatory and the Alchemical Society in the Capital when I had only met 3 of the Scientific Cities-State, and 6 of them when I built them in the other city.

I started all my testing game in the Atomic era, so maybe the problem does not appear when starting in earlier era. Well, so much mysteries!

This has been reported as potentially buggy for both the Guilded Vault and the Alchemic Society:

[NFP] - [1.0.3.31] Gilded Vault does not receive bonus from 3 envoys in a Mercantile CS | CivFanatics Forums

[NFP] - Bugs with the Alchemical Society and city states 1.0.3.31 | CivFanatics Forums

 

[Victoria]

I have struggled with the logic of adjacency for a while. It is way stronger than it should be but allows play on deity. It seems like there is a catch 22 situation in this that perhaps cannot be solved within the future lifespan of the game and they are just changing rationalism to make it a little harder.... 10/+3 was reachable by many cities and the new change means just a few cities. It does help civs like Khmer which is nice.

Unconvinced about the “no balance at all” comment. It is a nerf of the power of the card in general and it was too easy to get most cities to +3 so guaranteeing the card would be permanently slotted. It has balanced the card more, not so cool to slot but sort of useful.
Regarding Korea, Australia and Japan, you could get both 50% values relatively easy, but these are not pop heavy civs so have been nerfed so the card is not as strong for them.
It is more about the pop than the silly adjacency.
It is a mid-late card anyway so nowhere near as critical as the fact these civs get +x adjacency bonus.
So 100% disagree with the assessment.

ps. Love the Gauls but they were never a science civ. they are early burst then taper off. And they taper off better than others. The Celtic ascendency did end and I wish other civs had their fall as well as their rise.