RB OSG1 - Team II - Da not-quite-n00bz

Peace with the Psilons: I wouldn't have objected to remaining at war with them at least until they develop an SoD that can actually hurt us. Remember peace just means we are at cold war instead of hot war -- and that the AI won't attack unless it thinks it can win. In this case, getting peace doesn't really mean that much as far as whether they will attack us or not goes. The Psilons already seemed more focused on colonizing and on defending his core than on attacking us, so there was relatively little to gain from peace. I think this was a ruse on their part to buy them some more time to colonize planets, and we fell for it. If the Psilons had had a big fleet with which to smack us, accepting peace would have been the right call... but they don't. If they did, they would already have used it, and we would see it on the fleet power status graph anyway. Just because we can't hurt their core, doesn't mean we should not keep a hot war going. This is a somewhat subtle point, though, so no smoking on this one.

For instance, if we had remained at war, we could have sent some of our larges around as scouts so that we could popstorm his new colonies before they get off the ground. We might want to do this anyway, despite having taken peace -- especially since we need to win by conquest anyway. Even though we can't make much headway against their fortified worlds right now, we should not be afraid of the Psilons, and we should still be looking to take targets of opportunity away from them! Even if they retaliate by destroying those colonies, all it costs to delay them is a few pop, which are easy to regrow. Plus, as soon as they resettle the colonies, we can just start the whole deal over again, until we DO have the combat power to defend them long enough to stand them up. Even if we never get to that point, those baby colonies still contribute to the vote; better that we hold them than the Psilons.

This is a good example of a population-based war. What we are doing is sending a relatively small investment (some population which can be regrown easily) off to delay enemy expansion and force him to waste MORE resources and MORE population trying to retake those worlds. Because we have wicked ground strength relative to the AIs, this works largely in our favour. The Bulrathi and Sakkra excel at this kind of warfare, Silicoids usually are fairly vulnerable to it. We don't actually care that much about defending all these worlds we're sending pop to, until we get to the point where we have the wherewithal to do so or they are out of range of enemy attack. What we care about is denying the opportunity to expand to the AI. Taking a break to consolidate our gains is the wrong approach; as long as a fluid war is in our favour, why mess with success?

Peace with Alkari: No way. Remember, in my report I mentioned that that their SoDs of small laser-armed ships are USELESS against our larges! What do they have left other than that? Check their fleets out by clicking on them -- nothing significant. A few mediums and one or two larges. We only need a couple Gatling 2.0s to decimate their fleets! They aren't really a threat to us. Even if they were to blow Nitzer of the map, so what??? It just means that their fleet will leave, either we will resettle it or someone else will, and we can take it again with a minimal troop investment. In a population-based war, Nitzer is bait -- we can afford to lose it. Peace with Alkari is definitely sub-optimal; we will want to break this peace and soon. We can capture a couple of important techs from them if we take Altair, and we have ample force with which to do so.

Peace with Sakkra?!? :smoke: They have been sitting on one planet all game and don't have the tech to hurt us. Even if they have the best ground tech among the AIs we still hugely outclass them. Moreover, clicking on their fleets to see what they contain reveals that they are also composed largely of small ships. The Sakkra have abysmal tech; the only thing they can do with a small hull at their tech level is to build a speed 1 laser popgun with at most a MK1 computer on it! Again, we only need a couple Gatling 2.0s to decimate their fleet, and their planetary missile bases aren't much better. We should have had a fleet in orbit and troops on the way by now.

Silicoids: Again, I would have expected a fleet in orbit and troops on the way. While their fleet is composed of larges, and not smalls, they still don't have much tech to put on them, espeically in the way of computers and beam weapons; one of our Gatlings is a match for several of their ships. At least we're still nominally at war with them! :)

Checking the save, we have a whole bunch of Gatlings in play already. In fact we have enough to simultaneously begin campaigns against all 3 of our main targets. We should switch all ship production off of Gatlings and onto our missile boats, which we don't have any of yet. (What happened to combined arms?) Even if we have to take Gatlings away from defending the Psilon frontier (assuming there are some way out there) that's fine! The Psilons will likely not try to attack right now, unless someone draws them into the war with us, and even if they do attack, it will probably be at one of our bait worlds.

Go for the throat, Ozy!
 
Thanks for your detailed comments! I was hoping for something like this when I wrote down my thoughts about war and peace - I was very unsure what to do.

Remember peace just means we are at cold war instead of hot war -- and that the AI won't attack unless it thinks it can win.

I have the impression that the state of "cold war" means that smaller amounts of defenses (bases/ships) are sufficient to prevent AIs from flying their ships into orbit and following up with ground troops. Had there been more scouted Psilon colonies we could have conquered with transports, I would have rejected their offer. But given the defense techs they have, I had the impression that we won't be able to go into the offensive immediately, and we can return to hot war anytime we want to, right? Or are there any diplomatic penalties if you "break" peace too soon? If this would have been civ3, I probably wouldn't have made peace with the Sakkras and Alkaris, but here it seemed like there's little cost involved?

This is also related to your other comment on this issue,

For instance, if we had remained at war, we could have sent some of our larges around as scouts so that we could popstorm his new colonies before they get off the ground.

I had thought about that. Problem was, we got out first large after three of my turns IIRC, and meanwhile had problems on other fronts (Nitzer mainly), so I felt we wouldn't have any ships to spare for at least 10 turns.
But your point about population-based wars is well taken.

Reading your thoughts about the other peace deals, and thinking about it again now, I accept the :smoke: -badge and chalk that one up to my inexperience with guns. Most of the time I fight with missile-boats, at least in these early stages of the game, and absolutely have no idea of how weak or strong gunships are. When I saw the AI fleets, experienced the bombing of Nitzer and the near loss of it, and saw too few ships for too many fronts, my instincts told me to go back to turtle mode a bit and come back later. But you're right, turtling to come back later weakens our racial strengths.

Nitzer is bait -- we can afford to lose it

Okay, that's another thing I have to get used to. In civ3, I tend to avoid losing cities at all cost, but in MoO, losing a system without factories normally has not much consequence. I have to remember that and adapt.

Regarding the rest of your comments, that we should already have ships in orbit of our three enemies and should already have produced missile boats, I'm a bit surprised of how strong our Gatlings 2.0 should be! The Silicoids, for instance, had over 10 large (huge?) ships, and I thought we needed at least 4-5 Gatlings 2.0 to destroy these - but again, I don't have much experience with early gun combat. I also believed we would need a similar amount of ships for the Alkari SoD, and 2-3 for the Sakkra - given the additional objective of continuing our research, I thought we simply hadn't the resources to start building missile boats.

So I'm really looking forward to Ozy's (hopefully more aggressive) turns, and will probably replay them so I actually see our Gatling 2.0s in action, to get a feel for their strength. :hammer:

Hm...maybe I should play a private game where I never build any missile boat. That should give me some experience...

-Kylearan
 
I have the impression that the state of "cold war" means that smaller amounts of defenses (bases/ships) are sufficient to prevent AIs from flying their ships into orbit and following up with ground troops. Had there been more scouted Psilon colonies we could have conquered with transports, I would have rejected their offer. But given the defense techs they have, I had the impression that we won't be able to go into the offensive immediately, and we can return to hot war anytime we want to, right? Or are there any diplomatic penalties if you "break" peace too soon? If this would have been civ3, I probably wouldn't have made peace with the Sakkras and Alkaris, but here it seemed like there's little cost involved?
Cold war doesn't necessarily mean you need fewer defenses before they will attack you. The AI will take what it thinks it can get, regardless of whether war has been declared. What it *might* mean is that if the AI has another opponent it is at hot war against, it will pursue that war first, but even that is not a sure thing. However, if the Psilons do decide to go to war again, we will continue to be their most likely target, as the fact that our empire is so large will no doubt be a source of great annoyance to them, they have a past history of warfare with us, we are not doing anything to further improve relations with them, AND we are continuing to spy upon them. Any one of those factors would be sufficient cause for a future war declaration, let alone all four.

There are diplomatic penalties if you break agreements -- the AIs will be less willing to sign agreements in the future, or more precisely will require a higher level on the relations meter before they will agree to sign them. Enemy of my enemy diplomacy will get around that, of course, but since we want to be attacking everyone in this case, that mechanism probably won't help us. In general, I would rather leave a state of declared war as is rather than sign a peace I have no intention of maintaining. If I intend to honor the peace agreement for at least the immediate future, I will sign it. In this case, with exposed Psilon colonies to be scouting with our new fleet and then nabbing, we don't intend to remain at peace for long.

Unfortunately, the AI is not very good about remembering who was at fault for broken agreements in the past -- it always assumes that the player was the culprit. So, as time goes on and your empire grows, and other empires get impatient with the size of your empire, it becomes more and more difficult to maintain any kind of agreement without invoking enemy of my enemy diplomacy.

Regarding the rest of your comments, that we should already have ships in orbit of our three enemies and should already have produced missile boats, I'm a bit surprised of how strong our Gatlings 2.0 should be!
Note here, it's not so much that our Gatlings are strong, as that they are tough relative to the weapons available to our opponents. They have good maneuverability and good shields, and the enemy has weak computers and weapons available, meaning many misses and not much damage when hits are scored. The Silicoid ships are large, and are numerous, but that only matters if they have a ton of Hyper-V missiles to throw at us, which seems unlikely. Most of those ships probably have nothing better than Heavy Lasers to throw at us, which with our beam defense and heavy shields we can mostly ignore.
 
2420: I check our empire and change the following things.

- ALL ship relocation orders sent to Nitzer. It may just be me but having three different, or even just two different rally points makes me forget that percentage of my ships when I get ready to move. So all newly built ships are going there.
- 1 Gatling (Gat) 2.0 sent to Nitzer to chase off Alkari fleet.
- 1 Gat 2.0 sent to SSsla (Sakkra).
- 3 Gat 2.0 sent to Ajax (Alkari).
- 4 Gat 2.0 sent to Cryslon (Silicoid).
- Science looks ok, I leave the ratio's where they ae.
- ALL Gat 2.0 production swapped to Rocket (Roc) 2.0 instead since we have 22 Gat 2.0.
- 200 BC sent to Yarrow to speed production of factories/defenses since it's on the front lines and is an artifact world.

2421:
- 53 Roc 2.0 produced this turn.
- 1 Gat 2.0 and 8 Roc 2.0 sent to Ajax.
- Antares (tundra) founded.
- Galactic council formed.
- Vote is held. Darlock abstain, Sakkra vote for us, others vote for Psilon. We have the most votes 19-11.

2422:
- 16 Roc 2.0 made.
- Destroy the Sakkra fleet over SSsla.
- Attack Cryslon, lose 1 Gat 2.0, destroy 5 of his ships. Retreat (but keep on station) awaiting reinforcements.
- Tau Cygni (Tundra) founded.
- Contact Darlocks. They are doing some OPE (one planet empire) action.

2423:
- 13 Roc 2.0 made.
- Darlocks don't want to trade.
- Destroy the Sakkra reinforcements over SSsla. Declare space superiority over the planet.
- Psilon want to trade for 375/year. I agree. Not sure how long this will last once the fleets arrive over Aklari worlds but might as well try.

2424:
- Yarrow, former Alkari Artifact world, max factories builds bases.
- Fleets and transports (which I didn't really record) enroute or clearing out enemy force each round.

2425:
- Class V planetary shield developed. All planet put on 25% build orders. Next choice is between repulsor beam or clas V shields. Choose the shield tech.
- EVENT! A virus strikes our main force field research facility destroying ONE point of research!.:lol: As Sirian has said, it's better to be lucky than good at times.
- Vote is held again, same resuls, 19-11 as the first time. (32 possible votes)

2426:
- Steal Psilon tech. All fields available, so take a chance on propulsion, get Sub-light (warp 3) drives!
- Redesign Roc 2.0 into Roc 3.0, identical except for the warp speed.

2427:
- Steal Psilon tech again. All fields but propulsion available. They have a nice ion cannon which we could use.. I choose weapons, get Scatter pack V instead. :(

2428:
- Invade Sssla with 14 troops, kill off 39 before the forces die.

2429:
- Steal Alkari tech. Fusion bomb.

Summary:
- 73 troops enroute to Altair.
- 90 enroute to Ajax.
- 61 enroute to Cryslon.
- 85 enroute to Sssla, 35 within a few turns, 50 will be there in 7 turns to help stand it up or kill off the last of them (35 should it).
- 19 Gat 2.0 left (lost three, 2 to the Silicoids, 1 to Sakkra)
- 102 Rocket 2.0 available
- 37 Rocket 3.0 available.
- At WAR with everyone but the Darlock now. Psilon declared on us within two turns of moving our ships over Ajax.
- Scouts are headed to the two unexplored planets in the SE, but will be there 7-8 turns into next players turn.

I had all sorts of troops in transport, but most of them were sent before sub-light engines were stolen, hence all the inbound groups and no planets being taken.

We should take all 4 of the planets we have troops enroute to unless something very bad happens. We should, IMO, take the Psilon colony below the Silicoids because it seems to be isolated, but they may have the range to reach it, I am not sure.

Invasion time!

Roster:
Zed-F
Kylearan
Ozymandous
Kabuki <-- UP
JMB <-- on deck
TBC
 
Hey, don't diss those Scatter Packs! They are a great thing to have if the enemy brings a poorly shielded stack. Of course, they're a little past their prime now, but still good to have.

Sounds like a good turn overall!

Regarding the shield tech, I would have picked Repulsors. We already have Class IV shields, Class V won't help that much more. Besides, Repulsors are a good thing to have to combat enemy small beam ships and bombers.

In a normal game, I would probably stop building warships now, or at least soon. What we have on hand should be ample to deal with the minor powers and contain the Psilons for now; we don't want to overinvest and spend too much on fleet maintenance if we're just going to have to scrap the ships later when we want to build a fleet to take on the Psilons in their home systems.

Kabuki, don't forget to spare a few of our warp 3 ships to go check out the Psilon colonies in range so we can popstorm them -- even ones on the other side of their core if we can get to them. Ideally we'd like to be able to send troops anywhere within our fuel range. Also there are a couple planets south of Silicoid space that we could go send a warp 3 colony ship to.

Unfortunately, we won't want to completely eliminate all of our current foes' planets. We should leave at least one of them in an OPE situation, probably the Alkari. We don't want to be in a situation where the Psilons wipe out our last opponent other than themselves -- if we do that, we will have to go for an extermination win rather than a conquest win, as the vote will only be held if there are 3 or more empires still in play.
 
Kabuki,

If you can't grab it and play tonight, can I swap with you (I am going away tomorrow afternoon until Monday (Singapore time...))?

Thanks,

JMB
 
JMB, go ahead and grab it and play if you want, and if Kabuki says he has it, you can just toss out the results. :)
 
Ok, I've got it and will play later this afternoon (early morning back in the States...)

JMB
 
Sounds good, Ozy, I see now how I overestimated our enemy ship designs. :hammer:

Psilon want to trade for 375/year. I agree. Not sure how long this will last once the fleets arrive over Aklari worlds but might as well try.

No criticism intended, I just want to confirm if I understand the concept of trading right: Was that decision wise? As I understand it, a trade agreement begins with both parties having to *pay* an amount of BCs per year first, which will gradually decrease over time before both start to actually receive money. So, for an AI we know we will attack rather sooner or later, signing a new trade agreement would cost us money, right? (Don't know how long it takes before it gets positive?)

-Kylearan
 
Yeah, you're right, Ky, it will cost us money, if not a ton relative to our GNP (the trade agreement is limited by the lesser economy, in this case the Psilons.)

If we intend to stay at peace, the trade agreement is a more an attempt to normalize relations than an attempt to get real value out of it, unless we're playing as Humans. If not, you're right, it's a waste of time. I expect the Psilons to declare war on us or us to declare war on them at some point anyway, so it might not have been the most useful of moves, but at least it hurts the Psilons as much as it hurts us to lose that income. It will increase our untrustworthiness when that agreement breaks, but as I said that tends to happen over the long run anyway.
 
Yeah that was a bad move more than likely, but I thought maybe we could leave the Psilon alone for now while we go after the other three races. As mentioned they apparently didn't like me bombing the Alkari.

*sigh* Well I was thinking of the Repulsor Beam instead and could hear your voice in the back of my head saying "Now why did you do that? The Psilon have beeter weapons than we , we need better shields!", hence my choice! :)

We weren't making very many Rocket 3.0 ships each turn but's a combination of the fact I had almost all the plaets that could building *some* missle bases for defense, and the Rocket 3.0 was more expensive than the Rocket 2.0.

Most of our planets had ZERO defense bases when I started the turn and were pumping everything into ship building. This is great if they are forever out of range of enemy fleet's but is a bad habit to get into if you play games where the enemy discoveres range tech's very quick at all.
 
Nah, what do the Psilons have: Ion cannons, Scatter packs, and Fusion bombs (at least last I heard, they might have more now.) Class IV shield + Class V planetary negates both Ion Cannons and Scatter Pack V completely. One extra point of shielding won't make that much difference against bombers, where repulsors would.

Shoulda gone with your gut that time, Ozy. :)
 
Well that certainly took longer than I expected...

2430 - In terms of tech, we don't really appear to be that far behind the Psilions or the Alkari. Everything else looks pretty good. I transfer some of our reserves to our artifact planets.

2431 - We steal Class III deflector shields from the Alkari and our scientists discover the secrets of Dolomite Crystals. We begin researching Fusion Drives (our only option). I bomb Altair (pop 92, fact 271; 73 troops inbound), killing 18 million and destroying 70 factories (I am always hesitant to bomb because I never know how many people I will end up killing. Is there any good way to judge this?). I don't bomb SSSLA though as it has only 17 million and we have some 86 million troops en route. We bomb the other Alkari planet (pop 99, fact 144; 90 troops inbound), killing 12 million and destroying 48 factories. We bomb Cryslon (pop 110, fact 217; 61 troops inbound), killing 6 million and destroying 21 factories. Our troops (45) arrive at Ajax and kill over 80 million biods only losing approximately half of our numbers. 96 factories were captured, but no techs were found. I send a scout from Mobas to scout Mentar and one of the Gatlings from Willow to Rayden.

2432 - We force the Alkari with their ~300 Sparrowhawks to retreat from one of their planets. Our Gatlings force the Silicoids to retreat (although, I think they probably could have killed the Gatlings...). We make a breakthrough on Soil Enrichment. I shift our sliders to +25%. It doesn't look like we'll need it, but I decide to choose cloning (out of controlled inferno, controlled radiated, terraforming +40, Atmos Terraforming, Cloning, and Advanced Eco Restoration) so that we can grow our population more rapidlly for ground assaults... We bomb Altair again, killing 17 million and destroying 57 factories and Crysalon for 6 million and 22 factories. 23 million Bulrathi land on Altair and kill about 48 million Alakari; unfortunately, 12 million are left. 61 Bulrathi land on Crysalon and destroy about 100 million silicoids (with 39 troops remaining). 174 factories were captured, no techs were discovered (not that they have any for us to discover...).

2433 - We capture Altair and discover Battle Computer Mark IV (which we were just about to discover I believe...). GNN comes on and informs us that we nearly control a majority of the galaxy. We begin researching Improved Robotics IV. I'll leave the Alkari with one planet remaining. I change our Reloc point to Mobas as we have enough ships in the north. I design a new scout ship (without scrapping the old one) with warp III engines so that we can scout out a few planets more quickly... (it only costs 1 BC more than our other scouts...) We steal Ion Cannon from the Psilions. I also decide to build a new gunship (large, duralloy armor, 6 heavy ion cannons, 1 ion cannon and 2 fusion bombs).

2434 - Not much.

2435 - We capture SSSLA.

2436 - Not much.

2437 - We send 42 troops from Crysalon to Denubius.

2438 - The Alkari finally force us fron Nitzer with their 300 Sparrowhawk and destroy the colony. The Psilions attempting to land on Willow were all destroyed. 70 troops are sent to Moro to destroy the Sakkras; the ships will arrive in two turns.

2439 - The Alkari bomb Ajax with their >300 Sparrowhawk, killing ~ 31 million.

2440 - We destroy the Sakkra and capture Denubius from the Psilions. Not much else. The next leader should feel free to scrap the scout 3 design in favour of a fast bomber as our missile boats aren't doing much damage against the Psilion defenses...

Sorry about the rather poor set of turns (imo).

Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBOSG1Team2.zip

JMB
 
I bomb Altair (pop 92, fact 271; 73 troops inbound), killing 18 million and destroying 70 factories (I am always hesitant to bomb because I never know how many people I will end up killing. Is there any good way to judge this?).
You only bomb a planet if (a) you don't want to be bothered to capture it and stand it up, or (b) you want to capture it but can't send enough ground troops to overwhelm the defenders, even by coordinating invasions from multiple worlds. In this instance, neither applies, so bombing Altair was definitely sub-optimal. Capturing it intact would have been far better to our cause as we could have stood it up much more quickly. If, in fact the Alkari still have tech we do not, capturing it intact would be even more important to give us an opportunity to capture even more tech from those factories.

We bomb the other Alkari planet (pop 99, fact 144; 90 troops inbound), killing 12 million and destroying 48 factories. We bomb Cryslon (pop 110, fact 217; 61 troops inbound), killing 6 million and destroying 21 factories. Our troops (45) arrive at Ajax and kill over 80 million biods only losing approximately half of our numbers. 96 factories were captured, but no techs were found. I send a scout from Mobas to scout Mentar and one of the Gatlings from Willow to Rayden.
Again, none of those bombings were needed, and reduced our chances for tech capture as well as making it harder to stand up the planets. We won't capture tech from those races who don't have any tech advances left that we don't know ourselves, of course.

2432 - We force the Alkari with their ~300 Sparrowhawks to retreat from one of their planets. Our Gatlings force the Silicoids to retreat (although, I think they probably could have killed the Gatlings...).
The AI will retreat from any fleet that either it can't hurt or is much stronger in terms of combat power. If the AI retreated its ships, then at least the AI thinks the Gatlings would have won the fight. Since I don't know what was there, I can't comment other than to say our Gatlings are pretty tough customers on defense, so I wouldn't be surprised if they could have held the day.

We make a breakthrough on Soil Enrichment. I shift our sliders to +25%.
Here's a good opportunity for micromanagement to save some funds. Soil Enrichment takes a fixed amount of money per planet to build. If you go through your planets individually, it is possible to tailor them to spend exactly the right amount on it to complete it. On larger planets, this often takes only a single turn, with the leftover going to research. Once that's done, you can adjust spending as you see fit to grow the planet to its new mature value. After building Soil I will usually set larger planets to 50% of their income in RP and the rest to standing up the new factories and growing the remaining pop. Note that pop growth by ecology spending is more efficient on fertile worlds, so the pop tends to grow pretty quickly.

It doesn't look like we'll need it, but I decide to choose cloning (out of controlled inferno, controlled radiated, terraforming +40, Atmos Terraforming, Cloning, and Advanced Eco Restoration) so that we can grow our population more rapidlly for ground assaults...
With the number of worlds we have at our disposal, the power of our troops, and the fact that soon the majority of our worlds will be fertile, I would have picked something else. In particular, I would have picked Radiated bases, as we know the Psilons have some colonies on Dead planets by now, which we can't land on at the moment as we only have Tundra environment ourselves. Cloning and Advanced Eco Restoration are probably the two least useful techs in that selection for us right now. The other 3 will all give us significant increases in total production.

We steal Ion Cannon from the Psilions. I also decide to build a new gunship (large, duralloy armor, 6 heavy ion cannons, 1 ion cannon and 2 fusion bombs).
Ah, good, finally a decent beam weapon. :) Be careful about using up all our designs building incremental improvements, though -- we will have to scrap some of our fleet if we want to make a quantum jump in technology to go after the Psilons.

I am not overly keen on heavy versions of weapons unless the enemy has repulsors or very good shields on their ships, as heavy weapons are less space-efficient, but if you can build up a big stack or have a significant movement advantage they can be useful. That, however, is purely personal preference. The most important questions are (a) what is the role the ship is intended for, and (b) how well will it fill that role? If it's for space superiority, it may well perform quite adequately. We will have to see it in combat with current Psilon designs to tell for certain.

2438 - The Alkari finally force us fron Nitzer with their 300 Sparrowhawk and destroy the colony.
Any particular reason we didn't just leave 1 Gatling 2.0 here to prevent this? :) Not that the loss of the colony hurts us significantly, but we will have to build a new colony there now & send over some more people... the annoying part was how preventable this was, if all they had was a bunch of laser fighters.

2439 - The Alkari bomb Ajax with their >300 Sparrowhawk, killing ~ 31 million.
Same thing here...

Sorry about the rather poor set of turns (imo).
It's ok, we're here to learn, right? :)


Roster:
Zed-F <-- On deck
Kylearan
Ozymandous
Kabuki <-- UP
JMB <-- just played
TBC <-- skipped?
 
Zed,

Thanks for the info on bombing.

About the Gatling not being at Nitzer or Ajax, I believe I decided to move them so that we could concentrate on the Psilion front. I see now that it was definitely :smoke:.

About having to build a new colony ship, we could always let somebody else build one and then take the planet from them...

About the new Ion Cannon ship, feel free to scrap it as none have been produced yet.

JMB
 
Kabuki, are you out there? Haven't heard from you in a while... are you still on "skip me unless I say otherwise" mode?

I will get it tonight unless we hear from Kabuki.
 
Originally posted by JMB
Zed,

Thanks for the info on bombing.

About the Gatling not being at Nitzer or Ajax, I believe I decided to move them so that we could concentrate on the Psilion front. I see now that it was definitely :smoke:.

About having to build a new colony ship, we could always let somebody else build one and then take the planet from them...

About the new Ion Cannon ship, feel free to scrap it as none have been produced yet.

JMB

Just to reiterate what Zed said, *I* only bomb a planet if I'm not going to capture it, but merely destroy it. Even if I have a tech lead but still plan to capture the planet I will NOT bomb it because you will always destroy more factories than population, unless you have 99% bioweapons on the ships.

Bombing is pretty much useless if you plan to use the planet for anything at all yourself, unless you want to wipe it out and colonize it yuorself, which is a waste in resources at times because you have to allocate some planet to build a new colony ship, possibly scrap one of your warship designs for the slot it uses, move the ship into position, etc. This is usually much easier to accomplish without having to do all this by just invading and taking it over that way.

Regarding moving the Gatling 2.0 ships to the Psilon front... THe Psilon's already have better tech than we do, and I believe their shielding on their newest ships may bebetter than the Gatling Laser's can punch through. I know the Gatling ships would be useless in assaulting the Psilon planets, so why move them?

As Zed already mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the Gatling ships are better than anything everyone else has, other than the Psilon's so no worries there for now at least.

I am still confused about Nitzer since it was where all the ships were relocating to, and I thought was working on it's defense bases... *shrug*

One last thing... It is usually sub-optimal to destroy a colony and then make one yourself instead of capturing because unlike Civ3, there is no way to almost immediately stand up the colony like there is in Civ3 via cash rushing. Even when you dump reserves into a planet to build it will still take a while to build all the factories, defense bases and possibly terraform to your current tech level. The only instances where it's been almost as fast to stand a new planet up instead of capturing was in the very late game, where the factories are extremely cheap, there is low/no pollution and tech's like cloning, atmospheric transforming, etc, are in play. Usually by then capturing a world is still cheaper and faster.

Of course these are my thoughts, and not to be confused with Sirian or Zed who have a lot more experiecne with the game than I do.
 
Regarding moving the Gatling 2.0 ships to the Psilon front... THe Psilon's already have better tech than we do, and I believe their shielding on their newest ships may bebetter than the Gatling Laser's can punch through. I know the Gatling ships would be useless in assaulting the Psilon planets, so why move them?
In general I agree to a point. I would have put a couple ships down there for (a) scouting purposes so we could send troops to their fledgling colonies, and (b) to bolster the apparent (not so much actual) strength of our defenses on that front. The AI will sometimes respect the presence of a defensive fleet in orbit and choose a different target. However, I wouldn't have sent more than a couple ships down there, as I would have wanted to use most of them on the Sakkra/Alkari/Silicoid fronts, where they would bring the most gains.

Nitzer had no factories. It was one of the Tundra worlds that we had nabbed earlier but couldn't reasonably defend from Alkari SODs (prior to getting a Gatling 2.0 in orbit.) If it was working on a defense base, it was going to take a long time. :)
 
Ah, got it. I think Nitzer was building pop when I last saw the game.

I thought I had left a few ships (might not be correct) down on the Psilon front in case we needed them but can't remember now.
 
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