RB10 Elitist Hegemony -- slavers not workers.

Notes on :whip:

Every pop whipped is worth about 30 production

There's a penalty for whipping immediately. You'll get more out of it for even producing one hammer into the archer.

You were to whip an archer immediately though. We need military.

You actually LOSE more when you have a high pop city. However, this is OK if those pops are unhappy ones.

7: Hammer is a good choice. Forgot about mine :) But don't forget the power of a military road network, ever.

hmm toku's combat one archers move to the hills north of iron town. Barc will soon no longer be a liability.

That means they want to work the farm north of iron town. Luckily, farms/flatlands is easier to displace.

ug moved a unit off fortify from a miss click, back up two, play turns same way sorry!

Oof. I hate misclicks like that. It is very easy too! Don't worry. You did the right thing.

Kyoto has built a galley...
I was wondering when he'd get around to that. No matter. We still have a massive +50% movement advantage on the high seas.

You did great.

TGL in 4 dra already queued up a settler, liq didn;t do that!

Yes, I did that. I expect an expansion phase after consolidation. Have to see the save to see what exactly's going on, but I think we're just about ready to expand.

Edit: After seeing save. Eeep! No medics! I'm sure you had other priorities though, but... we need to get a medic to Iron town asap.

Whew. No archer north of Iron town. That is a good thing (tm).

Kyoto Galley: Heh, the AI rarely sails out of port when 'under siege', like right now. I doubt he'll expand, but even if he does, we'll be able to outsail him.

Barc: It is actually a good idea to work the water tiles. If you work the water tiles and the farm, Barc can grow in 2 turns instead of 3. That extra pop is more valuable than extra shield right now.
 
I didn't consider building a barracks because at that point, it'd take too long, and we could have extremely effective archers via using terrain advantage with archer's inherent additional +25% hills defense. We only needed 'enough' archers to make Japan back down from the Iron mine. The AI also goes nuts when you park a military unit next to their city. It doesn't consider terrain advantage very often, so if you can park an archer on a hill next to them, it won't be going anywhere. That is also why I suggest placing an archer on the hill next to Kyoto. It'll prioritize the closer enemy, rather than the more important (in our minds) Iron mine.


Barcelona would be an ideal high pop / high production coastal city. Whip is probably a bad idea since we have two plains mines (4 hammer each) we can work, plus lots of commerce via lighthouse.

Barc: Growing to pop 4 in 2 turns. More like pop 5 in 3-5 turns as the fishing boat arrives. Barcelona will be ideal to build a settler once it reaches pop 5.

Madrid: Needs to finish GLH get working on forges / colossus asap. We cannot delay Great Light house any longer, or we'll likely lose it. I think we have just enough time for an edge over building colossus, but since Lizzy has copper (+100% build to colossus), that edge isn't much.

GLH done in 4 turns, Metal casing in 8. We can also switch working Madrid's grasslands/forest tile, to lake tile without losing turns on GLH, while gaining an extra research turn in Metal casing, and if Barcelona works its sea tiles as well and we go 100% science, we can get Metal casing in 6, with treasury at 45 and -7 gpt, we can do get ultra fast Metal Casing.

If we do that, Madrid has just enough time to squeeze in a workboat or archer before wasting too many turns after discovering metal casing.

Suggested movement: Sharkbait in Mermaid's luck could drop onto the hills tile northwest of Kyoto. That'd provide us a slight advantage in recon and keep the pressure off Iron Mine. Make sure he promotes to medic to counter any damage done to him. Archers on hills get 25% defense from the hill and an additional 25% as a unity ability. 3 x 1.50 = 4.5. With the combat I promotion (3 x 1.10), Sharkie would have a defensive strength total of 4.8, plus first strike, more than enough to counter any of Kyoto's CI archers, and with medic, he'd heal up between archer assaults.

However, this is not absolutely necessary. Zeviz, feel free to unload sharkbait where-ever you feel he'll do most good.

Darius patrol / fogbust on the island should cancel most barb spawning, as prince is pretty lax about barb spawns.


Zeviz, you're up. If you feel the next 10 turns were a total snoozefest, because that's what I think right now, feel free to take a total of 15 turns. I'll extend the next player the same priviledge if there's really not much to do :) No offense to Liq or any of the other players, but the last 20 turns were some of the most important and hectic! These next 10-15 Turns consolidating will probably fly by without all that much to do.


Your priorities should be:
Get our expansion phase into gear!

Barc: Lighthouse or settler (preferably both)

Madrid: Finish GLH / Start forge / colossus.

Explore the world, mark down "I want it" settling spots.

Reseearch: We'll have stone nearby our 4th/5th city, and we need calender eventually, we could take the writing-->math path. That's for sure. Calender or currency next is a kicker, but I'm better since we'll have GLH, we can hold off currency until we grab calender.

Also for anyone reading: Do not forest chop the grassland forests near madrid. We need every production possible. However, feel free to place a mine over the plains / hill to Madrid's southeast. That is our third forest, providing nothing in terms of health or extra production, and we'd gain an extra production plus a small chance of discovering a metal.


3. Zeviz -- UP matey!
4. S.ilver -- Man the cannons!
5. ndthsmdy -- Our navigator
 
a few things, I timed the whip to get rid of anger and we needed military now, plus delaying TGL more was bad.

4 turns on TGL just let them go and build it. Liq stalled mass on it it needs to get built.

imo take the 0 xp archer and place it in the woods once sharkbait comes in and suck up exp. retreat when beat up.

those combat 1 archers were all about killing iron town, toku doesn;t care about the corn lol

As for the medic... honestly no time to make one, I needed every cover promoted to fight off those combat one archers.


was a gamble round and paid off.. toku lost about a 3rd of his army my turnset.

Cheers!
-Liq
 
Great work on these last couple of turnsets. :)

I will probably not get to play it today, but will try tomorrow.

For research, I still would like to consider Writing -> Alphabet path, because we can't count on AI to get Alphabet in a reasonable time and I tend to rely on it in my games for an early tech advantage.

For expansion, if our military situation looks solid, I'd like to switch Barc to settler as soon as it grows. I tend to expand slowly myself, but the sooner we get that iron the sooner we'll kill Toku and be able to breeze freely.
 
as for roads and military.... as far as I'm concerned you need military for those roads to become useful.

Since brown dot is secure barc is in no danger of getting attacked, and without hammers has no capability of making military.

A and B first, mine second, roads to the front third.

just ran out of turns is all.


Cheers!
-Liq
 
Zeviz said:
I will probably not get to play it today, but will try tomorrow..

Great! More time to talk before you play.
Zeviz said:
For research, I still would like to consider Writing -> Alphabet path,..

While I disagree, don't let that stop you, but after metal casing is finished. We want madrid on colossus production asap. Alphabet is a good choice we can work with, especially if we grab literature quickly for Heroic epic.

Research situation:
Barcelona: Switch it to all food production / commerce for two turns, even working that one food / 2 commercile coast tile
Madrid: Switch from forest/grassland tile to lake tile, it won't affect great lighthouse growth and up science to 100.

Barcelona needs a singular defender eventually for military protection happiness. Also note granaries are double speed production for us. I do agree on getting a setter asap, possibly two, just get a granary, archer or warrior in between.

Military: If we can get a galley to blockade Kyoto, that'd be a major coup. His galley is still in there, but we're more likely to survive than he via the coastal defense bonus.
 
I understand about getting Metal Casting and not selling it until we are done with Colossus.

Should I whip the Lighthouse to be on the safe side? Or is it ok to just hope we will not lose it in these 4 turns? (I had too many cases of AI beating me by 1 or 2 turns to various key techs/wonders, so I am a bit paranoid.)

EDIT: As for Alphabet, it would work best if we are behind in techs. (As we will be by the time we get there.) AIs tend to prioritize Math and Currency, so we might get those techs faster by going for Alphabet instead. The only danger would be if not enough AIs know these techs when we are ready to buy them, but that's unlikely given the amount of time we've spent researching worker and religious techs.

Also, have we gotten around to building a temple and hiring a priest? If not, I'll do it while we are waiting for Metal Casting.
 
I don't think we have priesthood, so no temples. As to whipping GLH, please don't. I don't think we need to. I've focused on building GLH very early on and Madrid is a large slow growth city with high production and commerice. We're going to lose a lot more in production and commerce than we're gaining from whipping. We can have GLH in 4 turns while working lake, Gems mine, Plains/forest/hill, corn and glasslands/hill with our Org religion. Just don't delay it any further, and we'll have GLH.

We're more likely ahead in techs than behind right now, and if we can seize great lighthouse and colossus, we can further that advantage. That's why I don't think Alphabet is a good idea.

Also, having checked the save, please be sure to cancel Liq's galley movement orders before you start your turn.
 
yup as I said ship movement was just to communicate my intentions is all, do with them as you see fit.


As for GLH I agree, just let it finish and should be ok

tack on yet another task needed by cabin boy,

we never roaded the gems by madrid to get it's happy flowing.

Poor cabin boy.. so overworked.
 
I think it's the football playoffs ad. I noticed having it up in two windows slowed my computer to a crawl.
 
I am sorry for the delay. Here are my turns. I took Drasca's offer to play 15, because a lot of them were just hitting Enter.

125BC (0) - We are currently last in every area, but that will hopefully change soon, as some new cities will be built.

WARNING: Trade screen reveals that Toku already has a third city! HC also has 3 cities and Cat and Elizabeth have 4.

We still don't have Priesthood, temples and priests? After all the effort we've put into getting a hydra started, we need some prophets. Besides, temple will allow Madrid to support an extra happy person. First I do MM suggested by Drasca, then switch research to Priesthood (2), before going back to Metal Casting (6), so total time on Metal Casting will remain the same and we'll be able to build a temple in Madrid, let the city grow, and hire a priest, before starting Forge and get the Metal Casting at the same time it would have been ready without the MM.

Mermaid's luck is redirected towards Kyoto's hill, per Drasca's suggestion.

100BC (1) We find Tokyo. It's just 3 tiles north of Kyoto.

Bad news: Jewdaism spreads to London. Elizabeth and HC might adopt different religions.

Workboat starts fishing. Sharkbait keeps going towards iron mine.

75BC (2) Priesthood -> Metal Casting (6). Eliz converts to Jewdaism. London is size 6, protected by 2 Archers and a Spear, but with few improved tiles. (Just a few mines and farms.) Where are the cottages? Mermaid's Luck unloads its archer on hill NW of Kyoto. Hopefully he'll promote soon.

50BC (3) Japanese C1 archer ignores Eugene and goes onto the gem mine. Barc grew to size 4. It's at happiness limit, so start Settler (10).

IBT: Eugene (fortified on hill near Kyoto) kills an archer.

25BC (4) We get Great Lighthouse. Start Jewish Temple (4). Sharkbait arrives to protect Eugene. Cabin boy completes mine near Barc, so settler will be ready in 7. Since Japan is now attacking hill near Kyoto, we don't need 4 archers on iron. Casey Hackey (most wounded archer) is loaded on Mermaid's Luck to be taken back to protect Barc.

Cat has Alphabet, but will not trade with us because of wrong religion.

1AD (5) Cabin boy goes to road corn for trade.

50AD (6) Casey Hackle is at Barc. Barc doesn't need happiness or Org. Rel. bonus at the moment. Eliz has +1 Open Borders, +1 years of peace and +1 religion. HC has +1 years of peace and -4 religion. So I switch to Buddhism to get HC to Open Borders (and to scout out his lands). We are Spiritual, so we can switch back when needed. HC goes up to Cautious (+1 religion), but doesn't want to Open Borders. Eliz stays Pleased. (no penalty)

100AD (7) Metal Casting -> Writing (3). Then Alphabet.
Madrid Jewish Temple -> Forge (10). When it grows in 5, I'll hire a priest to finally start generating GPPs.

Open Borders with HC. We are now up to #3 in GNP, but still far behind the leader.

125AD (8) nothing new

150AD (9) Cathrene boasts about having catapults! This means she is up Alphabet, Math, Construction, Code of Law and Horseback Riding. (Based on what we can see.) HC boasts about Chariots, so he doesn't have HBR.

Barc Settler -> Settler (8) Settler and Worker board Galley and sail to iron site.

175AD (10) Treasury is down to 0, so research is down to 80%. Alphabet is due in 11.

I will take Drasca's offer and play 5 more turns.

200AD (11) Eliz offers Clams for Corn. We agree. Madrid just grew to Happy Limit, so we finally hire a priest. (For shrines.)

IBT Archer on Osaka's hill kills Jap Archer.

225AD (12) Galley drops off settler, goes back.

IBT Moses was born in London.

250 (13) Seville is founded. Starts library. (for border expansion and research boost) Worker starts mining Iron.

275 (14) Seville is already paying for itself, thanks to the Lighthouse. However, we are still #4 in GNP.

300 (15) Cat is offering Sugar for trade, so she is also up Calendar.

Plans:
Settler is due in 2. I've marked 2 potential locations. One is a pure fishing village. The other grabs Horses, Stone and 5 grasslands (3 need Jungle removal). I suggest setting Horses+Stone and starting cottages, since the worker is already there.

Iron is about to be connected, so once Barc finishes its Barracs it can start training swordsmen. All our cities need libraries and Granaries.

Perhaps Madrid needs to train a Buddist missionary for Barc, or we need to switch back to Jewdaism. (Although I'd really hate the -4 penalty with HC. We need 2 trading partners to have any hope of catching Cat.)
 
yah keep bud since hc is the religion nut that cat isn't.

We really need another worker lol too bad that means wiping out toku.

as for the corn in south, why not the gems south of madrid instead? we are still not getting the happy from them and barc has corn hooked up already.

well too late now

as for horses stone... one option would be to move it north one to settle on the jungle.. tiles are about the the same but lose the starting plains hill.

Woker time is very $$$ though so a consideration.

we need to steam roll toku sooner rather than later..

barc needs that barracks done before pumping out units..

oh one other thought, Tokyo is an eye sore that impedes on kyoto, just raze it instead of keeping it.

Cheers!
-Liq
 
Liquidated said:
yah keep bud since hc is the religion nut that cat isn't.
oh one other thought, Tokyo is an eye sore that impedes on kyoto, just raze it instead of keeping it.

I disagree with Tokyo. Every city we have = more trade routes and coastal tile working ---> more overall commerce and beakers. We're not after infinite city sprawl, but we more cities is a good thing with GLH and Colossus right now.

Don't worry about GNP and expansion. We'll soon skyrocket once we get more cities up, or conquered. We haven't expanded the conventional way, but due to GLH and Colossus, we're setup to boom economically.

Lizzy converting to judaism... I expected that. Barcelona's jewish, and has been frequently trading with Lizzie. This is not a bad thing, especially if we wish to conquer HC, because he's closer than Lizzie. HC's cities haven't had that much buddhism yet either, so we may convert them too.

For those reason, I also disagree with "needing" trading partners, and "needing" buddhism. We're spiritual. We can switch religions willy nilly. Let's stick with judaism until we need to trade with HC.

We can cultivate Lizzie as a foreign trade partner if we so desire. Foreign relations will tell once they meet each other, but right now they have no clue the other exists.

Cathy also doesn't really care about religion that much. We can still grab open borders from her, and I say we take it and explore her territory. We're in no position to deny her expansion. Let's see what she has.

S.ilver, you're up matey. Also feel free to take 15 if the 10 is mostly hitting end turn.

Objectives:
Primary: Build colossus!
Secondary: More Settlers or Barracks or lighthouse, former preferred so far.

Honestly, we can keep Tokugawa contained until Civil service.

We could use a another city to get the horses, and possibly stone. Or choose somewhere else.
 
Sorry about not roading Gems. I totally forgot about them. At least we can build temples for happiness where needed.

Diplomatically, I'd like to keep both HC and Lizzy happy, because we'll need all the tech trading partners we can get if we hope to catch up to Cat. So staying in Buddhism as long as possible, or converting HC to Jewdaism. I'd vote for the former, because we don't have any production to spare on missionaries right now.

Since we are able to hold our ground v. Japan for now, perhaps we can train 1 more settler after the current one completes. We'll need catapults to take Kyoto anyway. And I agree with Drasca that Tokyo can more than pay for itself even if it just works the water tiles to avoid stealing from Kyoto.

PS Sorry about lack of screenshots. I didn't have much time last night.
 
good points about the costal trades... liq is :smoke:

Would love to get that worker from kyoto, once we get iron hooked up shouldn;t be too much of an issue to take him out.

Alas poor cabin boy. :lol:

oh yeah that's so true... we can add mass happys from temples huh lol.

Cheers!
-Liq
 
Hmm... Will take a look at it tonight. All great points that have been made. Except... Liq should know that I prefer to keep cities rather than raze. It's less productive, in my eyes, to go on a spree of mass destruction. Oh well. Won't be taking Tokyo in my turns...

I'll take a look at the city sites too... Did we have any copper in range for this Colossus? Or is it just a straight up build?
 
We have enough of an advantage to build colossus w/o copper. Besides, I don't see any nearby, and it'd take longer to settle and hook up copper than to just build.

Take 15 turns Silver. Then N can likely take 15.
 
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