RB13 - Collateral Carnage

[Kylearan]

Since this is an emergency, I agree about the Machinery plan (if the engineer can be used for it).

Dreylin, I'm fine waiting another day for you to play.

Zeviz, I hope your RL problems are nothing serious and sort themselves out soon!

-Kylearan

 

[Dreylin]

OK, I will get to this tonight or early tomorrow morning ... keep your fingers crossed!

 

[Clovis]

Good game, guys.

Where's the carnage you promised? Seems to me you should beef up your military and take Monty out!

Don't listen to me! (whisper) I've only played Civ2!

 

[Dreylin]

You want carnage, I'll give you carnage....


OK, here we go ... cross your fingers!

Cai Lun helps us out off the bat by discovering Machinery. Science down to zero nets us +69gpt with the 195g we already have it'll take us 2turns to accumulate enough to upgrade both axemen. We're not about to be attacked next turn so I hold off the upgrades for now.

Time to reconfigure some production:

Essen - Whip Forge
Frankfurt Courthouse->Maceman
Cologne Courthouse->Spearman(half-completed)
Munich Courthouse->Catapult(half-completed)
Hamburg Maceman
Berlin Spearman
Madrid Forge->Spearman
Salamanca is too small so left on Lighthouse
Seville due to finish Forge so left as is ... reconfigure to maximise production, though.


OK, hit the button...

Monty's fleet moves closer to Seville, and his mounted force approaches Madrid.

As if that isn't enough, a Barbarian Axeman decides to spawn in the one hidden square North of our Silver!?

1085AD
Essen starts Galley ... realise that we have one asleep nearby and wake it to go West.
Seville starts Maceman.

Troops move West.

Upgrade Seville Axeman to Maceman (just incase they attack from sea).
Whip Spearman at Madrid.


Monty drops his army off NW of Seville, and the 'phants move closer to Madrid.

Izzy demands we convert to Buddhism ... even if we wanted to, I'm not going into Anarchy now! (She takes it remarkably well, considering)


1090AD
Berlin Spearman->Spearman
Madrid Spearman->Spearman

Greece captures one of Monty's cities ... if we can hold him off we may stand a chance.

I move the Archer out of Cologne to guard our Silver.

Spearman reaches Seville & fortifies with Maceman. 2 defenders facing 6 attackers....

At Madrid Monty has an Elephant & Horse Archer. We have two healed Catapults & Spearman (Axeman inactive due to promotion to Maceman this turn)....

Combat2 Cat attacks & withdraws.
City Raider2 Cat attacks & ... doesn't withdraw.
I wish I could attack with my spearman.

Nothing more to promote, so science up to 40% for +15gpt. (Paper in 6)


Here we go....

Goodness, we survive ... barely.

Defense of Seville:
Maceman defeats Horse Archer
Maceman defeats Horse Archer
Maceman defeats Axeman
Maceman defeats Jaguar
Spearman defeats Jaguar
Maceman loses to Jaguar
Leaving an uninjured Jag facing a <50% Spearman.

Defense of Madrid:
Maceman defeats Elephant
Spearman defeats Horse Archer
Leaves a Cat, 'phant, Jag & Horse Archer outside the walls.

Some pillaging occurs.


1095AD
Hamburg Maceman->Maceman
Munich Cat->Courthouse(2t left)

Promote Seville Spearman w/Shock & Fortify. Whip and Archer to ensure the safety of the city.

Madrid: City Raider2 Cat attacks Jag/Horse Archer stack & withdraws. Spearman due naturally next turn.

Forces move West.


Round 2 - Ding.

Seville: Archer defeats Jag and there's no enemies even close!

Madrid: Cat bombards defenses & stack consolidates NW of the city.

Bad news from the North though; our Archer loses to the Barb Axeman which now has a clear run at Cologne....


1100AD
Berlin Spearman->Maceman
Madrid Spearman->Spearman

3 Cats at full health in Madrid....
Combat1/Medic Cat dies.
Combat1/Medic Cat dies.
City Raider3 Cat dies.
<Frown> but the stack is crippled, so they did what they had to.

Barb Axeman is down to 1/5 ... Freshly minted Spearman from Berlin moves to intercept. While additional Spearman populates Cologne.

Forces move West.

Monty still won't talk.


IBT:
Monty bombards Madrid.
Peace Treaty w/Izzy expires.
We are 5th Largest; Cathy, Unk, Unk, Monty - Alex is last.
Barb Axeman pillages Silver mine.


1105AD
Munich Courthouse->Catapult

Spearman kills Barb Axeman! Workers move in to fix mine.

Move Culture slider up to 10% to counter some WW.


IBT:

Madrid:
Cat bombards
Maceman defeats Horse Archer
Maceman defeats Horse Archer

/Lots/ of reinforcements moving in ... the Barca stack is nearly healed, but so far they are focusing on Madrid and ignoring Seville.


1110AD
Defenders arrive in Madrid; we now have 2 Macemen, 3 Spearmen & 2 healing Cats.

We hunker down for the next wave....


IBT:
Monty shuffles forces around and there seem to be less(!?) approaching than before ... Alex must be working his Magic on the far side. A lone Horse Archer approaches Seville which Madrid's defenses are now down to 8%.

Francis Bacon born in Berlin.


1115AD
Hamburg Maceman->Maceman

Forces move West.

I spot brown borders South of Munich ... so that's where the Mongols are hiding - let's hope they stay there for a while!

So, what to do with our Great Scientist - Philosophy or Academy (Berlin is best atm, but Great Library Scientist will expire eventually). I am tempted to grab Phil and make a break for Liberalism, but I think we should discuss first....


IBT:
Bombard, and Maceman defeats Horse Archer.


1120AD
Paper completes -> Education (2 reasons; maintain Liberalism option & we won't be able to trade Paper immediately and I don't want to waste research into techs we may be able to trade for) - we are up Paper on all.

Frankfurt Maceman->Courthouse

Combat1 Cat suicides on Monty's stack.
Combat2 Cat defeats(!?) Axeman - well against the odds.

Forces move West.


IBT:
Battle of Madrid Part X

Cat suicides on Maceman
Spearman defeats Elephant
Maceman defeats Horse Archer
Maceman defeats Jaguar
Maceman defeats Spearman

Another attack fended off, and Monty's stack is down to 6.


1125AD
Seville Maceman->Catapult

Spearman defeats marauding Horse Archer outside Seville.

Promote & Fortify forces in Madrid


IBT:
Madrid...
Horse Archer Withdraws from Maceman
Maceman defeats Axeman
Maceman defeats Horse Archer
Maceman defeats Spearman
Maceman defeats Spearman

The "stack" is now an Axeman and in injured Horse Archer looking for pillaging opportunities!

I also spot some of Monty's forces moving West!


1130AD
Berlin Maceman->Catapult

Combat2/Shock Cat from Madrid kills Axeman
City Raider2 Cat kills heavily injured Horse Archer & Monty's stack is dust in the wind!

I move some of the uninjured defenders towards the hill on the border on Monty's territory to run interferrence, but he really has no forces around ... just a single Elephant in the forest on the way to Seville.


I'm going to pass this off now; it's been around 10turns & we have successfully weathered the storm. It's going to be up to the next guys to tidy up and decide if we want to take the war back to him. We don't have many Cats left (I used most of them up keeping the stack weak, and probably didn't switch back from Macemen soon enough). Monty still won't talk, but the border is very defensible now with two pinch-points protecting Madrid & Seville, but we'll need to be aware of Izzy who would be free to attack us now.

We are still up Paper on all Civs we've met, and have a Great Scientist in our back pockets (Berlin) promising us Philosophy or an Academy.

Sorry for the lack of screenies....

 

[Atlas]

A very nice turn set!!! You had some this a bit of this a few of these can't forget this one and almost forgot when you had

Now for unsolicited advice You might want to make a run to Liberalism, but a beeline for Steel and cannons would be good too. I would probably hit Liberalism, and then just set the research on Steel and not change it til I got cannons. Your production v. damage caused ratio is going to go way down as you still attack with strength 5 cats v. Renaissance units, essentially wasted production, so there was my unsolicited 2 cents .

-Atlas

 

[Kylearan]

Dreylin, that was a fantastic set of turns! You only got two axemen and a small stack of wounded cats, and you did a miracle defending Madrid and Seville against several SoDs- well done! Really exciting read.

You mentioned you had to increase culture to fight WW - I guess the unhappiness came from the pillaged silver mine instead, as we shouldn't experience WW while defending our territory. Or so I hope...

Like Atlas, I think we should head to cannons and then take them to the AIs. Question is, should we slip in a run on Liberalism or not? I won't have an opinion about that before I've taken a look at the game, but I think I'd prefer to use the scientist for an Academy anyway. What do the others think?

I got the game, but I'm sick at the moment and may need my full 48 hours to play, so comments are welcome.

-Kylearan

 

[Dreylin]

I checked, and there's definitely WW hitting some cities (I think it's related to units lost in battle), but you're right that loss of the Silver would have contributed - you'll probably need to take a look at that when you take over. There's also a lot of whipping memory scattered around as I summoned up some instant defenders. Madrid & especially Seville were pretty hard hit ... I figured it better to keep the cities, even if they were small, than lose them. Probably want to MM Seville to make sure it starts growing again soon. (Strangely, last I checked the Demos, we were 2nd in Pop!?)

To get to Steel we either have to go through Guilds or Education to get to Gunpowder. To get Guilds we need Feudalism first, and no-one's prepared to trade it for Paper at the moment (and maybe we should preserve our Paper monopoly). Researching both will take an equivalent time as Education, and once we're there it may be worth taking the detour to Liberalism. However, we have quite a few specialists recruited, and especially with free Scientists in Berlin it won't be long before we score another GP. I think an Academy is probably the best option long-term.

We're currently running 40%, 10%, 50% and still losing money, so we really want to get the war over with. We're not likely to take any cities, either as Monty has Longbows defending.

 

[Kylearan]

We have indeed +4 WW in Berlin, which is quite harsh considering we only fought in our own borders. We had to fight for another five turns before Monty talked peace, and we killed a galley and a war elephant during that time. Then, Monty paid us 150g, 1gpt, and his world map for peace.

I used the great scientist to construct an academy in Berlin, which increased our beaker output quite notably. I have also focused on improving our economy - I had started with Education in 26, now it will be done in 2. I definately think we should go for Liberalism: Our GNP looks good compared to our rivals!

The Hanging Gardens have been built elsewhere - damn, I didn't know they were still available! Also, another civ circumnavigated the globe, and Islam was founded.

We made some new contacts: Victoria and Kublai Khan. I have done a lot of trades:

Paper, Drama to Alex for Calendar, Compass, 280g, WM (Paper had been discovered by others already)
Civil Service, Paper, 160g to Kublai for Feudalism, Theology
WM to Victoria for WM

Deer to Catherine for incense.
Deer to Kublai for cows
Corn to Victoria for silk
Last deer to Victoria for sugar
Crabs to Alex for 6gpt
Pigs to Victoria for 6gpt
Our only stone to Kublai for 6gpt

The resource deals were partly for money = research, partly for happiness, and partly to improve relations. We also signed open borders with Victoria and Kublai. We are now 2nd in score!

Frankfurt had been on avoid growth, despite having lots of spare happiness - not good! Please pay attention to our cities. I also whipped some: A library in Dortmund, a library in Frankfurt, a forge in Dortmund, and a marketplace in Berlin. Keep an eye on cities that have not much hammer potential like Seville, and see if you can whip some more. Dortmund is unhappy for a rather long time now, so we might allow it to grow some before whipping again.

Our workers brought irrigation to Seville, and should improve Madrid again too. We should also consider founding a city at the silver to the north - it can only grow to size 6 or so, but it may be worth it seeing that we won't be able to expand until cannons. Thoughts?


Roster:
Kylearan
Sharog -> UP NOW!
Snaproll -> on deck
xenikos
Zeviz
Dreylin

-Kylearan

 

[Kylearan]

The world as we know it:

 

[Dreylin]

Interesting view of the world. So it looks like we're missing the Japanese and Roman/Chinese(?) homeland (can't quite tell from Bactrian's colours)? Also from the cross-pollination, there must be a land bridge (or Galley traversable) connection between the other main continents.

Looks like Vicky is going to be our main tech competition in the long run. I guess that as soon as we have Cannons we need to quickly absorb Monty's lands so that they're up and running for Bombers & Artillery to take on the rest.

 

[Sharog]

a war is inevitable indeed, i prolly will start the construction of forbidden palace in madrid right the way once we have enough courthouses.

and i will prolly play tomorrow

 

[xenikos]

I'm back! New DVD-drive is working, I should be game next time my turn comes up.

 

[Kylearan]

I'm back! New DVD-drive is working, I should be game next time my turn comes up.

Good news!

 

[Sharog]

some more infra build during my turn, and some mm to shields since most of our cities already grown in to maximum allowed happiness due our lack of lux's.

some redone on the trade deals as well, i pretty much given our surplus strategic resources for free to toku kublai and kat, we will want them to be more pleased with us so we can trade their lux and techs.

libralism due in 3, not sure if we will get it or not, since kat actually got education before us.

looking at the situation, i decided to redeclare on issy, cuz she is still using "ARCHER" as defence in most of her cities, might as well whack those down before our units becomes completely useless. so there we go, by the end of my turn we are able to almost capture 2 cities. i left the last capture to the next player.

also we need to do some serious irrigation towards alot of our cities, salamanca, munich and frankfurt all need some extra irrigation(even after biology) to use most of their lands.

but for now this is not a priority since we dont have the lux to support the growth anywayz.

 

[Kylearan]

Good move spotting how weak Izzy was, and attacking her.

I've taken a quick look at the save, and disagree with some things. We should have swapped our fishing villages to universities immediately after discovering Education, as unis will be much more useful to us than harbors there. And regarding the resource gifts to Toku, Kublai and Catherine: We are giving them COPPER and HORSES for free?! First, we can forget getting good relations with Toku as long as we are of a different faith; second, we're trading with Catherine anyway so no gifts needed to improve relations; and third, these kind of resources are much more valuable than 'normal' resources, and I would rather give them something cheaper and less dangerous, or at least get something for it. Could the next player please take a look at this?

Roster:
Kylearan
Sharog
Snaproll -> UP NOW!
xenikos -> on deck
Zeviz
Dreylin

-Kylearan

 

[Snaproll]

Ok, I've got it, should be able to play tonight. I'll take a look at the things you suggested.

 

[Zeviz]

Dreylin, that was amazingly good defense. I am glad I left it in your hands.

I haven't seen the game in a long time, so I can't say much about current state of affairs. Have we considered possibility of trying to capture a few more cities from Monty, especially if he is still at war with Alex? I am still worried about quality of our lands and Monty has a lot of great grasslands. Even longbows aren't as tough after being hit by several barrage Cats.

 

[Snaproll]

Sorry, RL interfered tonight and I wasn't able to get to the game. I WILL play tomorrow after work. Sorry about the holdup.

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

Have we considered possibility of trying to capture a few more cities from Monty, especially if he is still at war with Alex?

The problem is that we have almost no military left to fight with after Monty had attacked us. If someone (other than Izzy) decides to attack us now, I think it would be game over...

-Kylearan

 

[Sharog]

well, we have no use of any of those resources , and i freed up some of the lux we have been sending out at the same time as well, a war from toku kublei and cathe is very unlikely due to the fact that they have to bypass monte's entire coast line to get to us at this point without astronomy. and they are all anoyed with victoria.

PS: they had no GPT by the time i renewed the deals, we can always renegotiate it for some GPT though ;0

and the more resources u give to them, the faster u get the rep bonus from what i experianced.

about the harbors, yeh perhaps university would have been a better idea. but the harbors were started before we had finished education (unless i messed up).

war against monty seems useless, with our variant without cannon we wont be able to do anything against long bow or soon musketeer defences.