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RB15: Taking The Long View

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Garath, Feb 15, 2006.

  1. Garath

    Garath Sorceror

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    This game will be entirely defined by what is effectively its one variant rule:

    Research must be set to Future Tech in 4000BC and then never changed.

    To stick with that theme, we're playing with No Tech Trading, and Great People may *not* be used to discover tech. The order we get them in is the order we get them in.

    This will make a lot more change to the game than people will realise at first sight. If you want to follow along with it, I recommend starting up any old game, and seeing the research path that this picks for yourselves. It has to be seen to be believed!

    Civ: Washington, so we get Agriculture and Fishing, and for the traits.
    Map: Custom Continents, random number.
    Difficulty: Prince, and maybe a stretch at that!

    Our start position: (hopefully. This is the first one rolled, and may turn out unacceptably)


    Roster:
    Garath
    Jabah
    Atlas

    There is room for up to two more people willing to join in this crazy variant. Monarch wins are strongly encouraged, and having looked at the tech tree to see what you're letting yourself in for is mandatory.

    Turns to follow. I'll be taking enough to see whether there's Copper around, which should be about 30 or so. We'll aim for an approximation to 30/20/15/10/10...

    --Garath
     
  2. Atlas

    Atlas Titanus

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    Looks good! Checking In

    Atlas

    ps. Garath how are you determining what order things get research? I mean by what process did you determine that Code of Laws is the 40 Tech researched?
     
  3. Jabah

    Jabah Chieftain

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    Checking in as well.

    With only 1 visible ressource, there must be several others hidden either behind the real trees, or behind the tech tree (copper or iron with luck, horse otherwise)

    Jabah
     
  4. Garath

    Garath Sorceror

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    Turn 0 (4000): I settle on the spot, revealing a cow that, were we ever going to be able to connect cows, I would have been irritated to have missed. :crazyeyes:



    Note: The water above us, despite being 6 tiles, is Fresh Water. The water below is the ocean.

    I set our research as required. The Wheel is the first tech up. Since we have a usable food bonus and will have the tech to connect it soon, I start with a worker.



    Turn 2 (3920): We receive 43g from a village! Good, getting something like AH this early would have necessitated restarting, since we wouldn't be playing the intended game. I may even consider avoiding huts in future, but this one would have been popped by border expansion anyway.

    Turn 9 (3640): The Wheel comes in. We start... Pottery! Not all that bad, so far, especially since we're Washington and can get some Cottage Cheese up. It'll get better, though...

    Turn 10 (3600): 64 more gold from another village. We'll be able to run 100% for a long while yet, thankfully!

    Turn 14 (3440): Buddhism FIDL. There's no way we're getting any native religions, so the sooner they're taken the better the chance they'll spread to us.

    Turn 15 (3400): Worker -> Warrior. Unsurprisingly the worker heads straight over to irrigate our Corn. It'll be 6 food, since it's on the freshwater lake.

    Turn 17 (3320): Pottery -> ... Mining

    Turn 24 (3040): Hinduism FIDL.
    Mining -> Bronze Working. Given how lame our lands are, I really am going to keep going until we get Bronze. If we don't have any we're in trouble, since we don't have good enough lands to compensate in any other way. Take a look:



    So far all we've found is three wines and a stone. While that does leave us with a semi-decent city site out there... there isn't any other food at all.

    Also, we haven't met anybody. I didn't particularly want to be alone on our continent. Maybe I shouldn't have left the number random. Bleh.

    Turn 26 (2960): Our warriors defeat a lion without a scratch. Yay!



    And seriously, what's with all this completely blank terrain? This is terrible!
    (more gold again from this hut)



    Turn 28 (2880): Washington: Another warrior -> Settler, due in 10. Will be for the Wines/Stone site if nothing else is found before then.

    Turn 31 (2760): Finally another couple of food bonuses! Both seafood, although they can't be given to the same city. The two dots marked are useful cities, although both would be pretty much fishing villages in a normal game.



    Turn 38 (2480): Settler pops. Set Washington to Warrior since we're short on defense (recommend Granary next. We'll probably have to whip the city at some point), and send the settler over to the closest dot.

    Turn 39 (2440): Bronze Working comes in. Research set to... Metal Casting. Due in 55. We begin to see how the variant goes, no?

    New York founded, set to Work Boat.

    Our lands so far:


    As you can see, there are two copper, up in the north. We have two scouting warriors out, and have explored most of what is evidently our own continent. We're... somewhat light on resources.

    So it's up to you guys? You want to take this start, which at least has Copper to fight the barbarians with, if we can get there quickly enough? Or you want to reroll with a different map script, since it'll probably be more fun with some AIs around to play with? If nothing else, it would be useful to be able to go conquering before we get Astronomy, since that isn't exactly early in the tech tree...

    (it would be Combustion, since we get that before even Sailing, but we won't have Oil at that point either.)

    What do you think, guys?

    --Garath

    PS Atlas: I'm determining that, for example, Code of Laws is about 40th by opening the tech tree and seeing what order they're listed in. I'm pretty certain that can't ever change now unless we change it. Open the game and see for yourself!

    Jabah: I don't recall hearing of any normalisation algorithms that guarantee more than the 1 food bonus that was already visible at the start, in terms of resources. I know jungle is removed and forests added, that kind of thing, but resources? What's the source of your information?
     
  5. Jabah

    Jabah Chieftain

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    Well in all my starts I had at least 3 or 4 bonus (not specially food), so it is empirical knowledge...

    For our map/variant, we should/could settle ON the pig for the northern copper, that way (AFAIK) we will have pig connected, no ?

    Same with sheep and cow, (unfortunately not horse..)

    I would like to try to continue with this one, being prince, we have time soing straigh for the copper and defend against barbarians with warrior for a little while before seing axe. That is if no AI get there before us.

    My vote is we continue a little bit and check again after next player (that is me:lol:).

    Jabah

    Edit : since I am at work for the next 30mn, I can't check, but how far are we from Iron working...
     
  6. Merzbow

    Merzbow Disrecognized Space

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    :banana:

    :banana: :banana:
     
  7. Garath

    Garath Sorceror

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    Does that work without Animal Husbandry? I suppose it must. No real exploit, we still won't get the production bonuses, but at least it means we won't have *quite* so much trading to do.

    I don't think getting to the Copper will be a problem, you're right. Could be a bit boring before someone comes along and meets us, though. For sure, we won't be the ones meeting them!

    Garath

    EDIT: @Jabah Iron Working is 29th on the list, iirc. I wouldn't worry too much about finding that too soon...
     
  8. Sharog

    Sharog Chieftain

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    Lucker's Comment:
    the resources doesnt get connected until u have the tech enabled afaik, im not sure if it works by conquering enemy terriotory with a pasture built.

    by choosing a civ with agriculture as starting tech seems to be quite a difference compare to a starting civ without, if the purpose of this sg is to test the research path, so it should do it properly with maximum possible handicap in my opinion.
     
  9. ChrTh

    ChrTh Mmm...tasty!

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    lurker's comment:
    I've been waiting a couple months for someone to try this idea. Good luck guys!

    BTW, trading techs shouldn't be an issue. IIRC correctly, you'll never research Alphabet :crazyeye:

    You should at least allow them if they're going to research the current tech that you're researching.

     
  10. Jabah

    Jabah Chieftain

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    Garath, I can't see the save:blush: . I know you wanted to discuss going on or not so it might have been on purpose. If not thanks for posting it :D
    Jabah
     
  11. Garath

    Garath Sorceror

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    No, that would just be a mistake.

    Man, founding on Animals, capturing pastures and things like that... this game might almost be too easy! It certainly isn't as restrictive as my first impression had thought. Just goes to show how long I didn't spend thinking of ways to break it, eh?

    Maybe we should have been playing on Monarch! :biggrin:

    Here it is.

    --Garath

    EDIT Also, you should rename the leader to RB15-something. I've only just noticed I named it Garath on autopilot, which won't be much use in the long run.
     
  12. Sirian

    Sirian Civ Map Programmer

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    .Negative.
     
  13. Jabah

    Jabah Chieftain

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    Got it. and will play at the same time as watching football...

    So if it is not working, no reason to settle on animals.

    Jabah
     
  14. Jabah

    Jabah Chieftain

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    RB15

    T0 - 2440BC

    We have another 'little' problem. There is no culture building possible, so the fish at New York will have to wait...
    The next cultural building (except Colossus) will be library in 4 techs, then castle in 7 techs ...
    So work boat is changed to warrior for now.

    T1 - 2400BC
    Washington : warrior-< granary (until growth)

    T2 - 2360BC
    Judaim FIDAL

    T7 - 2160BC
    open village (gold)

    T9 - 2080BC
    Washington size5, max for happiness, switch to settler (hill chop in 2t).

    T11 - 1960BC
    Se are officially (gibbon's saying) military hopeless (7th).

    T13 - 1840BC
    Washington finishes settler-> worker (granary still on hold)
    NY finishes warrior-> granary for 1t.

    Will settle next to Copper, on river (missing the sea) and next city will be at the other end of the river for better connection.

    Settler send with warrior escort all the way.

    T17 - 1760BC
    spot a barbarian warrior away from our future city.



    our warrior (woodmanI) goes in the forrest to be attacked, while the settler wait. our warrior wins.

    T19 - 1680BC
    Boston is founded on the river and starts another warrior.

    T20 - 1640BC
    washington worker->settler (for the mouth of the river).
    workers are send to chop a few tree on the future city site and road to there.
    another will have to go north to boston ASAP.

    T21 - 1600BC

    that will be turn 60. so I stop there.

    The future city is where the warrior is and a worker is cutting tree.
    The immediat idea is to chop, road and mine the hill just E to speed the settler.
    1 worker should go North almost immediatlly to connect Copper



    The 'dotmap' is not optimum (Boston 1 away from sea), but without culture and with the river acting as unpillageable road I think is the best we can do.

    There are a few very good site (with lots of seafood + copper) but need culture to get most of it...

    It seems we are alone on our island, so we are trapped there until sailing (late), but barbarians and settling will take a while.

    For lurker, in the autolog (spoiler below), there is all the tech order as I clicked o future tech again during 1st turn.

    Jabah

    Spoiler :

    ----------------------------New entries----------------------------
    Turn 39 (2440 BC)
    New York begins: Warrior
    Research begun: Metal Casting
    Research begun: Machinery
    Research begun: Masonry
    Research begun: Writing
    Research begun: Mathematics
    Research begun: Construction
    Research begun: Engineering
    Research begun: Mysticism
    Research begun: Meditation
    Research begun: Priesthood
    Research begun: Monarchy
    Research begun: Feudalism
    Research begun: Guilds
    Research begun: Gunpowder
    Research begun: Chemistry
    Research begun: Currency
    Research begun: Banking
    Research begun: Polytheism
    Research begun: Monotheism
    Research begun: Theology
    Research begun: Paper
    Research begun: Printing Press
    Research begun: Replaceable Parts
    Research begun: Steam Power
    Research begun: Iron Working
    Research begun: Steel
    Research begun: Railroad
    Research begun: Combustion
    Research begun: Sailing
    Research begun: Calendar
    Research begun: Compass
    Research begun: Optics
    Research begun: Astronomy
    Research begun: Scientific Method
    Research begun: Physics
    Research begun: Electricity
    Research begun: Code of Laws
    Research begun: Civil Service
    Research begun: Philosophy
    Research begun: Nationalism
    Research begun: Constitution
    Research begun: Education
    Research begun: Economics
    Research begun: Corporation
    Research begun: Assembly Line
    Research begun: Industrialism
    Research begun: Plastics
    Research begun: Radio
    Research begun: Rifling
    Research begun: Artillery
    Research begun: Rocketry
    Research begun: Satellites
    Research begun: Composites
    Research begun: Biology
    Research begun: Refrigeration
    Research begun: Computers
    Research begun: Genetics
    Research begun: Future Tech
    Washington finishes: Warrior

    Turn 40 (2400 BC)
    Washington begins: Settler
    Washington begins: Granary
    Judaism founded in a distant land

    Turn 41 (2360 BC)

    Turn 42 (2320 BC)
    Washington grows: 4

    Turn 43 (2280 BC)

    Turn 44 (2240 BC)

    Turn 45 (2200 BC)

    Turn 46 (2160 BC)
    Tribal village results: lots of gold
    New York grows: 2

    Turn 47 (2120 BC)
    Washington grows: 5

    Turn 48 (2080 BC)
    Washington begins: Settler
    Warrior defeats (1.10/2): Barbarian Lion

    Turn 49 (2040 BC)
    Warrior promoted: Woodsman I
    Washington's borders expand

    Turn 50 (2000 BC)
    Warrior promoted: Woodsman I

    Turn 51 (1960 BC)

    Turn 52 (1920 BC)

    Turn 53 (1880 BC)
    Washington finishes: Settler
    New York finishes: Warrior
    Warrior defeats (2.00/2): Barbarian Lion

    Turn 54 (1840 BC)
    New York begins: Granary
    Washington begins: Worker
    New York grows: 3

    Turn 55 (1800 BC)
    New York begins: Worker

    Turn 56 (1760 BC)
    Warrior defeats (1.22/2): Barbarian Lion

    Turn 57 (1720 BC)
    Warrior defeats (1.70/2): Barbarian Warrior

    Turn 58 (1680 BC)
    Boston founded
    Boston begins: Warrior
    Washington finishes: Worker

    Turn 59 (1640 BC)
    Washington begins: Settler

    Turn 60 (1600 BC)

     
  15. Garath

    Garath Sorceror

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    I recommend Atlas takes 15 turns, and then we'll go to a 10 rotation, in time with the normal ones these days.

    Good spot on the lack of a culture building, Jabah. My bad, I'd been playing testbed games with Cyrus, who's Creative, and so hadn't noticed. New York had only just been founded on your inherited turn, though, so nothing was lost.

    Garath
     
  16. Atlas

    Atlas Titanus

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    I have the save. Man on a continent alone, when we meet people we are going to be so behind!! I will play 15.

    Atlas
     
  17. Atlas

    Atlas Titanus

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    Okay So I played my 15 turns settler finished in Washington and founded Philly.

    Philly was then attacked by barbs. I think we are really going to need to get some warriors out there to prevent barbs from spawing, so I finished the granary in washington since it was already half built then built warriors. Worker has connected Boston to the rest of the civs by road, river was already almost connected and is now mining the copper. We should be able to build axes shortly and we will need them as there will be at least a few barb cities spawing, if not already. New York finished its worker and is now building a granary, it might should go to barracks or forge next. Washington should spam military as soon as the copper is hooked up. (IMHO) or we will start losing improvements and (God Forbid workers/cities). Philly should probably farm all the plains tiles AND grassland tiles until it has maxed its pop and then swithch the grassland tiles to cottages. Metal Casting finished and Machinery has started. 26 turns left, when we started it was 31 turns. Sorry for the short report, nothing really happened except a few barbs showing up to warn us that we need some military.

    Atlas

    ps. 15 turns ended on a weird date.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Atlas

    Atlas Titanus

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    here is the save:) enjoy!
     
  19. Garath

    Garath Sorceror

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    Wow, a full round in a day, eh? I'll pick this up again tomorrow afternoon, playing whatever's needed to get the turns back to sensible numbers. I'll look at the end dates from some other SGs and match to them.

    We should make a push to actually *build* the Forges, and Colossus too for that matter, as soon as we can afford them. If this is the beeline we've taken, we should make the best of it that we can, right? And there aren't many wonders we'll ever get the techs for in time, so we should build the ones we can. We might even get the Pyramids, if we're really lucky! Masonry isn't as late as all that. Now wouldn't that be a coup?

    Garath
     
  20. Jabah

    Jabah Chieftain

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    I would probably build a few axe asap even if it means no barracks, and promoted them against barb (write that because I can see several barracks being built on the last picture, maybe we can't afford to wait).

    Jabah
     

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