RB15: Taking The Long View

I'll keep an eye on it. Getting a couple of axes out is certainly a high priority. I want to get a decent BarbWatch squadron out, too, so we can afford to neglect military temporarily afterwards while we fill as much of the island as we can afford and push science to get through some of the sillier bits of our tech tree as quickly as possible.

I'm seeing lots of cottages in our mid-term future.

Garath
 
First off, Atlas, you seem to have only played 13 turns, rather than 15, which explains why they ended on a strange number. I'll play 12 to even it off rather than leave them on an odd number, but if you later want to steal those two turns back from me, feel free to do so.

To the game, there's one major reason why building Barracks rather than axes right this minute is a good idea: We don't have the Copper connected yet, and won't for another 5 turns. On the other hand, no barbarians are visible incoming, so it's fine. I can get a couple more warriors for BarbWatch out before they become obsolete, too.

While scanning through cities checking them over, though, I note that coastal villages aren't going to be as attractive as they should be: It'll be millennia yet before we can build a lighthouse!

Tech-wise, our path after Machinery (due in 26, so not finished to be finished on my round) is Masonry -> Writing -> Maths. Personally, I think that gets us Masonry early enough that we have should be able to get the Pyramids, which will be invaluable for offering us Civics we'll never otherwise get. By the time Masonry comes in, I want us to have a forge built in Washington, the Stone connected, and ideally a couple of workers ready to chop forests, since most of them are probably going in the long run in favour of cottages. Connecting the Stone will probably be the tricky bit, we don't have a cultural building for Philadelphia yet remember.

Turn 1 (1040): Consequently, I start a Forge in Washington.

Turn 3 (975): Washington grows to 6, becoming unhappy. I intend for us to switch to Slavery in time to whip the end of the Forge. Painful as it may be, we'll have to use the whip in a few instances, and Washington at least has one food bonus. Whipping unhappy citizens won't cost anything, thankfully.

Turn 4 (950): Copper is connected, yay! Since the barbarians are giving me no trouble at all as things stand, I decide that the axemen can indeed afford to wait on the Barracks, both due in 6.



Turn 5 (925): Oracle BIDL. I wonder who, and what they took.

Turn 11 (775): Three Barracks finish simultaneously. I whipped that rather than the Forge in Washington since I timed a forest chop badly. Boston and Philly both start axes, though remember not to bother building too many before the Forge, and Washington returns to the Forge.

Stonehenge BIDL.

End: Washington will finish the Forge next turn. It also should build an axe or two. Boston has *good* production at the moment, and should build its Forge sooner rather than later, probably after just this one axe.



Note I've got the entire western side of the continent under BarbWatch, though there's one warrior just come down from the frozen north that will attack one of ours next turn. Make sure to build enough axes that we can watch the East as well.

I built no more settlers or workers on my round. We'll need some more of both before too much longer, though we're short on good sites, unsurprisingly.

I didn't make too much progress on Machinery on my round. It only dropped from 26 to 11 turns due across 12 turns played. Hopefully it'll come in on the end of the next round, which means by the end of the one after *that* we should have at least a good start on the Pyramids. Masonry and for that matter Writing to get a Library up in Philly won't take long.

Jabah is Up.

--Garath

PS screenshots and the save will exist when the computer they're on is capable of logging into Civfanatics. Sorry for the delay.
 
Garath,

I agree about the Pyramids, since we will never get the techs for most of those civcs, so a forge in Washington, Probably goinging to have to whip a library in Philly to expand the borders followed by worker there immediatly to hook up the stone, then the probably best thing to do will be to shift the workers to Washington to start cutting forests outside of the city radius and maybe inside, it will be a close run thing, Stonehenge and Oracle are gone, that means that everybody will start working on the Pyramids. Also the quarry that will be at Philly is going to need guards b/c barbs by that time will be pouring out of the East (probably the West too). Also, after the whipped library at Philly, a forge should probably come next if you still want to grab the Colossus, but as you note without lighthouse the building the Colossus largely just serves the purpose of getting GPP points, so well, who knows.

Atlas
 
Better do some irrigating at Philly in order to get it to a large enough size to whip the Library effectively. Remember the Forge will add shields to the whip, if there's time to build it first. You're right that the Colossus is worth a lot less without Lighthouses, but we may be able to afford it for denial purposes. Keep an eye on it.

GPPs would be nice too, of course.

Garath
 
T0 - 750BC
Stop (or reduce) the growth in cities that are at the happy limit (most of them!)

T1 -725BC
barbarians coming from SE, upgrade the warrior in Phila to take no risk and kill him before he pillage a cottage or a farm.

T7 - 575
Washington settler->worker.

T10 - 500
Found atlanta between the 2 lakes, improving our economy (mainly because it reduce our soldiers costs and also because it works high commercial squares). I was hoping it would close the borders on the stone, but this is not civ3 anymore :)

Machinery in 2t. research only at 80% (37 research with atlanta, while 34 and deficit without)

We have to be really careful not to let the cities grow as the happy limit is 4 right now. That is the main problem.

We probably can build 1 or 2 cities but not much more before we are allowed to grow the existing ones.



Jabah

Spoiler :

----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Turn 85 (750 BC)
Washington finishes: Forge
Warrior defeats (1.04/2): Barbarian Warrior

Turn 86 (725 BC)
Washington begins: Settler

Turn 87 (700 BC)
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Boston finishes: Axeman
Axeman defeats (4.50/5): Barbarian Warrior

Turn 88 (675 BC)
Boston begins: Forge
Boston begins: Axeman

Turn 89 (650 BC)
New York finishes: Granary

Turn 90 (625 BC)
New York begins: Forge
Boston finishes: Axeman
Philadelphia grows: 3

Turn 91 (600 BC)
Boston begins: Worker
Washington finishes: Settler

Turn 92 (575 BC)
Washington begins: Worker

Turn 93 (550 BC)

Turn 94 (525 BC)
Warrior defeats (0.08/2): Barbarian Warrior

Turn 95 (500 BC)
Warrior promoted: Woodsman II
Atlanta founded
Atlanta begins: Granary

 
um... I intended to advise letting the cities grow even if they *did* become unhappy, since unhappy citizens can still be whipped, and we have at least a couple of whips to do. Did you miss that, or was there a particularly good reason not to?

Never mind. It's unlikely to matter much.

I think we should try to found the fish cities down on my original dot and in the extreme northeast as the remaining two, since we'll soon have Libraries so we can actually get some culture in and use the fish. I don't see anything else worth putting a city on.

Atlas: try to finish the BarbWatch project off, if you can. The sooner we don't have to worry about them, the better.

This happiness limit thing is going to be a bit of a bugger, really. We won't get any religion until people meet us. Hereditary Rule will help a lot, which we'll hopefully get from the Pyramids, but will be available naturally not *all* that much later, thank god. Until then, I don't really see what we can do. The lack of Silver and Gold is a real pity, since those are doublable so easily with the Forges we're building anyway.

Garath
 
I have the save. I should post tomorrow evening (sorry for the delay ;) )Will grow so that we can whip some libraries and other infra. once we get off of this long Metal Casting-Machinery run. Will see if I can get can make any progress on the Pyramids front, probaly nothing more than a whipped library. Barbwatch is on. I will see what I can do about that.

Atlas
 
Yes, we can whip unhappy citizen, but that add unhappiness, so you need to whip 2pop to get rid of 1 otherwise it does nothing good. Most of our city are not really food heavy, so it take a long time to regrow the pop and usually they can have a good production. BTW, I started mining more hills a Washington to be abble to give the previous one to NY.

Adding unhappy form the whip also reduce the number of cottage we are working delaying our research.
Also right now there is nothing to build really but forge & granary.

Jabah
 
Jabah did an excellent job on the barb watch, it is expensive and we still need a few more units, but we will manage financially. Ok here are the highlights

Turn 0- Not much to do. Barb Watch in the West looks to be under control.

-Begin Irrigation in Atlanta, also move some workers around to prep for our run at the pyramids.

-Reseach drops to 70% (Barb watch is expensive) The extra cost of having troops outside the borders can be prohibative. Masonry comes in, Writing in 5

350BC Moses born and Confucianism founded. That is not so bad since the AI is in love with CoL. Pyramids in 75 turns :eek:

300 BC Writing. Math in 8.

Turn 10 250BC I have some chops going on outside of Washington's borders, Inside washington there are 4 forests, so If you decide to chop 1 then go ahead and chop a second, we could probably chop them all, irrigate the ones by the lake to get some spcialists for academies(scientists)/wonders(engineers). There are two workers at Philly that will chop the library, then they should chop/whip the forge and then chop the Colossus if we want that. I don't really see any reason to save forests at this point, we have lots of health, but little happiness, I don't know.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING-When the library gets built make sure you watch for the border expansion, b/c you need to get those to workers at Philly on that stone quarry ASAP.

Atlas
 

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Okay a little Experimentation in Worldbuilder, Do not do Chops at Washington for the pyramids until the stone is hooked up, you get twice the value that way.

Okay so the thing to do is to keep chopping at Washington, but DO NOT finish the chops, when the workers have 1 turn left take them off and start chopping somewhere else. It is a little wasteful of worker moves, but will conserve a lot of hammers. This means that you will have to stop one chop at DC since I already gave the command. I have to say this situation never happened to me before, stone and marble are such powerful resources that I get them hooked up immediatly so the situation never came to my attention before. This is why variants are so much fun.

Atlas

ps. None of this affects the chops that need to be done at philly for the border expansion (or for the Colossus) if you decide you want it.
 
I was going to say the same, chop only after connecting stone. To avoid wasting to many worker turn, build roads before leaving the (almost copped) forrest.
Should chop the library as well.

Jabah
 
I see it and will play when I can. Weekends are trickier, but it won't take very long so I should get it in today.

I'm aware that we should chop after hooking up Stone. I'm on it.

Garath
 
So, the projected timescale at the start of my turn:

3 turns for the forest chop to finish at Philly, at which point I can whip the Library in Philly, completing it at the start of my Turn 3, with that being the first turn on which culture is added from the Library. Borders will therefore expand at the start of my turn 7, and assuming I have 3 workers in place, I can start the Quarry on that turn, and finish it the next. If I keep workers in place to chop at Washington at that point, I have three turns to chop in. I won't *quite* be able to finish the Pyramids on my round... but it should be close.

Turn 0: science up to 80%. We can support it (this probably also means we can support another city or two. I'll see when I can squeeze one in.

Turn 2: Library whipped in Philly.

Turn 3: Arse. The culture is not applied on the first turn. Never mind.

Turn 6: Mathematics -> Construction.



:eek: :sad: :eek:

Oh dear. OH *DEAR*.

So, not Police State or Universal Suffrage then. Um... now what? I guess we revert to simply increasing science as much as humanly possible, and pushing through our ridiculous tech tree to Optics as quickly as we can.

Turn 7: 93g from missing the Pyramids. At least it didn't come after all the forest chops.

Handoff: Boston Forge -> Axeman



There's a barb archer coming in from the east. Handily, I had an axeman heading over to the hill in the northeast for BarbWatch who can intercept him. You can see him in the centre/west of the shot.

Washington has almost finished a settler for one of the two remaining sites with actual food bonuses on the island. Another should be built from somewhere. There are a couple more axemen in production to finish off our military, for now.

We really, badly, desperately need more happy. Unfortunately, while we're getting Colosseums in 4 turns, there won't be any more for some time after that. Still, that's more than we have now.

Garath
 
I can see it, but will not play before sunday night and more likely monday night.
So feel free to swap if you can/want to play before.

Jabah
 
Won't be able to play tonight (well officially here it is already Tuesday).
I can play tomorrow night for sure, but will understand if you want to play it before.

Jabah
 
T0 - 1AD
Nothing really to change, we have lots of unhappy but they will be whip or cool down with colosseum soon.

T1 - 25AD
Parthenon BiDaL
Put science to 100% for Construction in 2t

T2 - 50AD
Washington settler-> library.
colossus BiDaL

T3 - 75AD
Cosnturction->Engineering
Christianity FiDaL

Whip Library in Washington (3pop)

T4 - 100AD
Found Chicago north of the big inside lake next to oasis (3food+3commerce)

T5 - 125AD
Great Lighthouse BiDaL

T8 - 200AD
there is a barbarian city in the west (on hill) but not in a good position for our dot map.
Anyway we have better things to do that go and raze right now (library and colloseum).

T10 - 250AD
Washington is set on high production to finish the colosseum next turn to get the unhappy back to work and should be set for growth and commerce again (1 unhappy due to whip to end in 5t).
New York should whip the forge asap, and start a library both for commerce (4 village/town) and to get the fish.
Boston need a colosseum after library (3t).
Philadelphia will grow in 5t exactly when the whip will be forgiven. Set to slow growth, high production.

Since we never talked about dotmap, here are my views. trying to reduce the number of cities and using almost all the tiles on our (visible) landmass.


Jabah





Spoiler :

----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Turn 115 (0 AD)
Boston begins: Library
Boston begins: Granary

Turn 116 (25 AD)
Washington finishes: Settler
Axeman defeats (0.45/5): Barbarian Archer

Turn 117 (50 AD)
Washington begins: Library
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Axeman promoted: Cover
Tech learned: Construction
Atlanta grows: 3
Christianity founded in a distant land

Turn 118 (75 AD)
Washington begins: Colosseum
Washington grows: 5
Washington finishes: Library
Philadelphia grows: 4

Turn 119 (100 AD)
Chicago founded
Chicago begins: Granary
Boston begins: Axeman
Boston finishes: Granary

Turn 120 (125 AD)
Philadelphia begins: Colosseum
Philadelphia begins: Axeman
Philadelphia finishes: Forge

Turn 121 (150 AD)
Boston finishes: Axeman

Turn 122 (175 AD)
Boston begins: Library
Axeman defeats (3.50/5): Barbarian Axeman

Turn 123 (200 AD)
Philadelphia finishes: Axeman

Turn 124 (225 AD)
Philadelphia begins: Colosseum
Chicago finishes: Granary

Turn 125 (250 AD)
Chicago begins: Forge
 
I "got" it and should post later tonight or tomorrow morning. Some interesting events since I last had the game, no Pyramids and no colossus. I (as an Optimist) welcome these events since having the Pyramids would have been too easy ;) .

I don't actually have the save since I am not currently at my computer.

Atlas
 
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