RBC12A - Fall of Rome - Vizigoths (Deity)

[Charis]

First, regarding the prebuild - it was about 13 turns at a clip of 12-14 spt, so we're ok. Actually, it was the very most prebuild we had! I didn't let the pillager finish, which would have cost 5 turns, and on the turn we bought Barb leadership, the best prebuild (library) was one shield from completion (on purpose) It couldn't have been timed better, and our next-best producing city would have taken longer to build even with many extra turns.

> Lower the science rate. We'll be happy to build pillagers (and
> maybe get some enslaved troops as workers) for 40 shields
> and pay to upgrade once we get the tech.

That will work nicely.

> BUILD CATAPULTS!!!!!!!!
I agree in principle and with your detailed points. But with a few cities with no defender (much less max MP) the top need now is real troops. I built a few spears to get this covered asap.

> We'll want some migrants on hand when we start fighting, to
> raze and replace and for the inevitable landgrab once
> somebody loses 8 cities.
Yes! Our food-bonus granaried cities are good for this.


> Have cash on hand when we start the war on the Romes.
This goes well with cut sci-rate

> I'm thinking we'll need to concentrate a bit more on Eastern
> Rome, as their capital is nearest to us of all the barb civs, the
> other civs that can hit them are far away (Huns, Ostrogoths)
Yes, full agreement here.

> Most important allies (in descending order, IMO) are:
> Ostrogoths (fighting them too would be BRUTAL), Sassanids
> (only really help against Eastern Rome), Vandals (also awfully
> close for comfort),
Full agreement here too. Ostros are leading barbs in tech and are way too close for comfort. Vandals have quite a few cities and a good production base. Sassanids seem to be like Persia of RBC3

> Any vet raiders should be upgraded to mauraders ASAP
Aye - in fact I should have started earlier bringing home the scouts but was diligent to sell WM from what they found instead

Charis

 

[Aggie]

Things to do in my ten turns (please comment, I will start in a few hours):

-Bring the raiders home
-Speed up building the SoG and turn lux up to 30%
-Lower tech rate to min science
-Start/build a few migrants in food bonus granary cities
-Build embassies if cash is available (maybe better close to war declaration though with free view in cities)
-Build pillagers (and warlords if possible)
-think about building courthouses/catapults
-Don't spend too much cash on techs besides Sacking and Construction/Fortification
-If applicable: upgrade vet raides to marauders

And most importantly:
-Hope for the SoG

 

[Arathorn]

Looks good to me.

Small task for 10 turns!

Arathorn

 

[Aggie]

We have massive outbreaks of plague (2 cities already) What should we do about it?

EDIT: should I disconnect roads to those (core) cities?

 

[Arathorn]

I don't think we can do anything. It just spreads or dies out on its own. I think what we do is die (and curse our luck) and hope/pray it doesn't hit our SoG city. I've heard rumors that city walls make the plague worse, but it's just hearsay, so I really have no clue.

Arathorn

EDIT: In regards to roads...maybe. I dunno. It may help but it pains me to throw away work.... I've never seen any good descriptions of plague. Civilopedia ANY help?

 

[Aggie]

I am tempted to remove forces from the cities, reading the civclopedia (which is always right )

 

[Arathorn]

That sounds like a good option to me. No sense losing troops, too. Unless we have serious happiness problems in the affected cities, it shouldn't be that big of a deal. I just hope we don't get too many demands/attacks because of it.

I'm out of my depth here, though.

Arathorn

 

[Aggie]

IHT: I switch Alarichbaurgs to more shields in order to get the Scoruge of God in 7 turns. Luxury goes to 30% and science to 0%. Min science is nonsense at this rate (267 turns to get Sacking ) Granary in Ataulfhulundi whipped (1 citizen).

IT: Ostrogoths start the SoG. Ataulfhulundi: granary->migrant. Wallialund: barracks->pillager. Theudisvwarhei: barracks->pillager.

Turn 1 (396 AD) Troops moving home.

IT: The Vandals and Ostrogoths (??) start SoG. Rodericfairguni: barracks->pillager.

Turn 2 (398 AD) The Celts have sacking, but won't trade. I also don't want a tech @ 1st. They don't know BL by the way.

IT: Fritigernhaims: migrant->barracks. Alveistulga: worker->catapult. Worker starts connecting the wines.

Turn 3 (400 AD) The Celts are still the only ones with Sacking.

IT: Byzantines are building St. Peter's and Hagia Sophia.

Turn 4 (402 AD)

IT: Sineigswinja: spear->pillager.

Turn 5 (404 AD) We are 2 turns from completion of the SoG

IT: Wallialund gets the plague. Don't know if it helps, but troops move out of the city.

Turn 6 (406 AD) Preparation for a party... Rodericfairgy gets a taxman to quell riots.

IT: Theodora of the Romans to the East want TM and 28 gold. I give it.

And a modern version of the SoG (compare this one to that of RBC12F )

Aliarichsbaughs: SoG->pillager.

Turn 7 (408 AD) Nothing much. The Celts still have Sacking

IT: Wines are connected. Rodericfairguni: pillager->pillager.

Turn 8 (410 AD) Plague still continues in Wallialund. Luxury to 10%. We now make 41 gpt and have 235 gold in the treasury. The Franks and Vandals now also know Sacking The Celts want 26 gpt and 235 gold for it though

IT: Uh-oh The Western Romans enter our territory Unselslund: barracks->catapult. Plague now also starts in Alarichbaurgs

Turn 9 (412 AD) There is only one Roman legionary direclty in striking distance, so I sit still (but move pillagers that way) and pray they are after someone else... Troops leave Alarichbaurgs, but also don't move to other places. I'm starting to get paranoia.

IT: The SoD of Roman Legionaries moves further east. Firitgerhaims, Oestergarn, Swalauvsvisibaurgs: barracks->pillager.

Turn 10 (414 AD) 9 Roman Legionaries and one Heavy Cavalry are too close for comfort. But something tells me (the way they move) that they are NOT after us. Outside the plague cities are some units that I don't dare to move back to the city OR to another city. That last thought can't be true, can it?

414 AD save

 

[Charis]

I think an sneak attack is far worse than anything the plague can do.

> Wallialund gets the plague. Don't know if it helps, but troops move out of the city.
> Theodora of the Romans to the East want TM and 28 gold. I give it.

Then we empty another and the Romans are on our doorstep?
> That last thought can't be true, can it?



I hope they're just movin' on along. I would definitely bring 'em back in, unless that's known to be instant death to troops. I would see what happens rather than ask them to leave at this point. If no embassy yet, maybe good time? Ouch... tough call Aggie had to make. There's no "good" option
I'm glad we got the SoG anyway (see? Told ya! ) If Rome wants a piece of us, they're going to get some GA-fueled heck!


Charis

 

[Aggie]

Originally posted by Charis

> Wallialund gets the plague. Don't know if it helps, but troops move out of the city.
> Theodora of the Romans to the East want TM and 28 gold. I give it.

Then we empty another and the Romans are on our doorstep?
> That last thought can't be true, can it?

Reading it like this, I'm afraid However: they moved NORTH-EAST and EAST, not towards the empty cities.

 

[Arathorn]

Those are Western Romans, right? I don't think they're targetting us. If so, they would've retargetted, probably, and moved differently when we emptied cities. My guess is Huns or, more likely, Ostrogoths, drew the unlucky straw. The big question is how do we take advantage of the situation?

Troops dying that aren't ours is a good thing, but since VPs are awarded for killing troops, we don't want to sit on the sidelines and watch TOO much. Let the initial crushes kill each other and THEN we get into the fight.

If they're coming for us, well, we were gonna attack them in 11 turns anyway. Just treat it like we declared -- kill them on the outskirts of our lands, sign alliances like crazy (in the order suggested above). Yeah, ideally we'd have another 20 pillagers and 2-4 warlords on hand, backed with 20 'pults, but we go with the hand dealt to us.

DO NOT order the Romans out. Shadow them, but let them go through us to Ostrogoths (or Vandals or Huns), if they're willing. Losing one backline city is worth the time it will buy us if they DO come after us.

I fully support having moved the troops out. If they were coming for us, it didn't matter. If they weren't, they won't be distracted by empty cities. And if the plague goes until all units in the city are dead and the population is 1, saving even one city from the plague is worth it. That's potentially a dozen units lost from one city with the plague. Why risk it, when it almost assuredly won't affect the West Romans anyway?

Roster? LKendter is up and I'm on deck, right?

Arathorn

 

[Nad]

If the western Romans are heading east against another civ, then knowing AI attack patterns, we can expect a long procession of troops. In that circumstance delaying an attack on western Rome for very long could be a nightmare, since their troops already past us to the east would head back and we'd be caught in a hammer and anvil, trying to break through their defences to the west and staving off their offensive units in the east. If we want to attack Rome, then I think we need to start very soon, before they get too many units in our lands and to our east.

 

[Arathorn]

Units that get past us to the east will probably die in the lands there (against whomever they are attacking). Units in our land, after the initial swam, will be reduced to a trickle that we can easily kill off by initial positioning and use of roads.

I've attacked many MANY foes who were involved in a war on my far side and never had much difficulty (the only time it was at all dicey was when the guy that I allied with against the main foe made peace very quickly).

Once all their spare offensive units are past us, we'll just see trickles. It'll be like fighting a gassed opponent, provided we time it right. Western Rome's gonna have units scattered all across the Mediterranean, so it might take them a while to arrive on scene. Still, I think letting them through and fighting their cities after somebody else has fought their units is ideal.

Arathorn

 

[Aggie]

That is my thought as well. I consider the Roman movement as a good thing.

 

[LKendter]

Got it

 

[Arathorn]

I'll be gone from now until Sunday afternoon/evening. I can play Sunday night. I leave it up to Charis as to what to do. I would rather not be completely skipped, but there's no need to hold up the game for long on my account.

Arathorn

 

[LKendter]

414 AD
It is only turn 45 and Eastern Rome as 12,110 of the needed 35,000 victory points. We have a pathetic 630 points.

The graphics are nasty looking for plague.
(I) Rome completes Justinian's Leadership - a combination Sun Tzu and Heroic Epic.


426 AD
I decide it is overdue for some embassies. Rome has *10* units guarding it. I hope all Roman cities aren't that tough. The Vandals whipped their capitol to death as it is size one with an entertainer despite 2 mp, temple and 2 luxuries. The Franks look reasonable and are building a coliseum. The Sassanids capitol is already building a church. The Hun's are simply building a migrant. The Celts are building a spearman. The Anglo-Saxons are building a marketplace. I am not impressed with the cities I have seen.

Summary:
I don't think we will stay at peace much longer. We need to get into war mode soon.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/RBC12A-434AD.zip

 

[Nad]

I can play today, so if Charis wishes for me and Arathorn to switch places in the roster this round, then I'll go ahead and take it.

 

[Nad]

whoops, wrong thread

 

[Charis]

Go ahead Nad and take it, swapping order with Arathorn for the turn.

Nice tound, Lee And yes, victory count is scary.
Charis