Nad
Known Troublemaker
In that case, got it, most likely will finish tomorrow morning (UK time).
RBC12A - Fall of Rome - Vizigoths (Deity)
- Thread starter Charis
- Start date
Nad
Known Troublemaker
RBC12A, Inherited Turn 434AD
Had a bit of a shock when I opened the save to see the number of Roman troops in our land. We need most of them out of the way before we can join the fray. I concur with Lee's assessment, we simply have to attack soon with the goals of the scenario in mind.
Looking through the empire, I think we need to get more troops to the southwest also, because once we declare on western Rome, the Byzantines will also be attacking us. Overall the military buildup looks quite good and I'm going to take the initiative and declare war in these turns, as soon as I see the right opportunity.
With that in mind I changed a couple of builds and fired some unneeded specialists to prepare for what is to come
Science wise, I'm going to continue the no-science approach until we declare war, when I'll be looking to buy sacking to upgrade a number of units to warlords. Apart from that I don't intend to buy any other tech.
Begin moving troops to the peripheries of our empire. And here are the highligts of the turns:
IT: lots of Roman movement, let's spare a thought for the poor sods that are going to be on the receiving end.
Thessalonika (Byzantine) completes St Peter's.
Turn 1, 436AD: we can buy furs from the Vandals, but I do not as the route appears to go through Roman territory.
IT: the procession continues, timing the attack is going to be very difficult as we need to choose a moment when most of the Roman troops are not in our lands, and those that are do not threaten our cities and are not on high terrain. Before all that we need to let the Romans choose their sneak attack target
Turn 2, 438AD: still moving troops and upgrading a couple of veteran raiders
IT: the party starts
I think I'll give it 3-4 turns for the Ostrogoths to absorb the excess Roman units and then we'll jump in.
Turn 3, 440AD: lux to 20% as the capital (I hate these unpronouncable names, so I'm not going to use them)grows to size 6.
IT: first Ostrogothic city has fallen...our poor brothers...
Turn 4, 442AD: troop shifts give our military defence a more balanced look, using workers to complete a couple of very important roads for movement purposes. The movement over rivers is becoming a real pain, so maybe we should look to save up to buy construction and fortifications?
IT: Ostrogoths recapture their lost city. Eastern Rome declares war on the Ostrogoths as the MPP kicks in.
Turn 5, 444AD: struggling to control "itchy-finger syndrome"...must choose the right moment...
Turn 6, 446AD: the Ostrogoths will give us an approx 250gp discount on Sacking for alliances against the two Romes, but I want to attack when we're ready and I think I want to buy Sacking before declaring war so we can upgrade our pillagers first.
Turn 7, 448AD: I think this is going to be the last turn of peace, as next turn most of the Roman troops will be outside our lands. It is time to buy Sacking, therefore. Buy from the Ostrogoths for WM + 30gpt...I want to keep our treasury for the upgrades.
Upgrade a bunch of pillagers @ 60g each, quite expensive.
IT: Eastern Roman troops are beginning to appear too, headed for the Ostrogoths. Now or never, the time is nigh...
Turn 8, 450AD: everyone got their seatbelts on? The brutality starts here...
I take straight cash from the Ostrogoths for alliances against the two Romes. They give us 236g and become gracious
Kill a heavy cav and we're rocking!
On top of that the victory creates a maurauder.
Kill a Byzantine legion for another maurauder! 2/2
Kill a Byzantine garrison for yet another maurauder
3/3...I love warlords!
Leave a worker out as bait for a Byzantine heavy cav...I'd rather he killed the worker than kill the pillager defending Swalaiuvs... (there is a horseman also, so the city is safe for now).
Annoyingly, Alarichburgs is 4/3 spt short of being able to do a warlord every 3 turns in the GA (It can do a max of 22spt atm, but we'd need 24/23/23 for a warlord every 3 turns).
Alliances are very expensive, but we need some distraction as we don't want the entire Roman military heading for us, so I buy in the Franks for 22gpt.
Use most of our treasury to upgrade more pillagers.
IT: lose a warlord to a Byzantine heavy cav which appeared out of the fog along the southern road...I think I may have to do a strategic pillage of that road to sow the Byzantine cavalr...unfortunately this will slow us down also when we go on the offensive, but needs must...
The other heavy cav ignores the worker bait and instead attacks the city, but retreats against our pillager.
Turn 9, 452AD: kill the redlined heavy cavalry with a horseman. Kill the heavy cavalry that killed our warlord with another warlord, no maurauder produced.
A raider leaves Ufarplapja and pillages the road on the forest just outside our territory, so we will now have advance warning or first attack against any heavy cavalry that appear there.
Sign ROP with the Ostrogoths to allow their troops to move through our territory quicker.
IT: Byzantine heavy cav attacking city retreats, we lose an exploring raider to a Roman heavy cav, but a warlord fortified on a mountain defeats an attacking heavy cav and promotes, our first elite unit.
Ufarplapja riots, my bad, I thought I'd checked it. Eastern Rome declares on the Franks, as the MPP again kicks in.
Turn 10, 454AD: use a raider to kill the redlined heavy cav. Use another raider to protect our wines from a garrison that is close by.
I'm not sure about the best option for Alarichburgs for now: I have some workers mining a hill to try to get to 24 spt asap. At the moment, we can take a warlord every 4 turns, with a lot of waste, or a spear or cat every turn with minimal waste. I'll leave it to the next player to decide, it's on warlord for now.
Our military is quite scattered so the next player should take some time to familiarize troops positions. We have 4 migrants in Alarichburgs that can be used to fill gaps once they appear.
Our lands are more or less clear, we'll have to see what happens in the next 3-4 turns to plan an offensive.
The Save
Had a bit of a shock when I opened the save to see the number of Roman troops in our land. We need most of them out of the way before we can join the fray. I concur with Lee's assessment, we simply have to attack soon with the goals of the scenario in mind.
Looking through the empire, I think we need to get more troops to the southwest also, because once we declare on western Rome, the Byzantines will also be attacking us. Overall the military buildup looks quite good and I'm going to take the initiative and declare war in these turns, as soon as I see the right opportunity.
With that in mind I changed a couple of builds and fired some unneeded specialists to prepare for what is to come
Science wise, I'm going to continue the no-science approach until we declare war, when I'll be looking to buy sacking to upgrade a number of units to warlords. Apart from that I don't intend to buy any other tech.
Begin moving troops to the peripheries of our empire. And here are the highligts of the turns:
IT: lots of Roman movement, let's spare a thought for the poor sods that are going to be on the receiving end.
Thessalonika (Byzantine) completes St Peter's.
Turn 1, 436AD: we can buy furs from the Vandals, but I do not as the route appears to go through Roman territory.
IT: the procession continues, timing the attack is going to be very difficult as we need to choose a moment when most of the Roman troops are not in our lands, and those that are do not threaten our cities and are not on high terrain. Before all that we need to let the Romans choose their sneak attack target
Turn 2, 438AD: still moving troops and upgrading a couple of veteran raiders
IT: the party starts
I think I'll give it 3-4 turns for the Ostrogoths to absorb the excess Roman units and then we'll jump in.
Turn 3, 440AD: lux to 20% as the capital (I hate these unpronouncable names, so I'm not going to use them)grows to size 6.
IT: first Ostrogothic city has fallen...our poor brothers...
Turn 4, 442AD: troop shifts give our military defence a more balanced look, using workers to complete a couple of very important roads for movement purposes. The movement over rivers is becoming a real pain, so maybe we should look to save up to buy construction and fortifications?
IT: Ostrogoths recapture their lost city. Eastern Rome declares war on the Ostrogoths as the MPP kicks in.
Turn 5, 444AD: struggling to control "itchy-finger syndrome"
...must choose the right moment...Turn 6, 446AD: the Ostrogoths will give us an approx 250gp discount on Sacking for alliances against the two Romes, but I want to attack when we're ready and I think I want to buy Sacking before declaring war so we can upgrade our pillagers first.
Turn 7, 448AD: I think this is going to be the last turn of peace, as next turn most of the Roman troops will be outside our lands. It is time to buy Sacking, therefore. Buy from the Ostrogoths for WM + 30gpt...I want to keep our treasury for the upgrades.
Upgrade a bunch of pillagers @ 60g each, quite expensive.
IT: Eastern Roman troops are beginning to appear too, headed for the Ostrogoths. Now or never, the time is nigh...
Turn 8, 450AD: everyone got their seatbelts on?
The brutality starts here...I take straight cash from the Ostrogoths for alliances against the two Romes. They give us 236g and become gracious
Kill a heavy cav and we're rocking!
On top of that the victory creates a maurauder.
Kill a Byzantine legion for another maurauder! 2/2
Kill a Byzantine garrison for yet another maurauder
3/3...I love warlords!Leave a worker out as bait for a Byzantine heavy cav...I'd rather he killed the worker than kill the pillager defending Swalaiuvs... (there is a horseman also, so the city is safe for now).
Annoyingly, Alarichburgs is 4/3 spt short of being able to do a warlord every 3 turns in the GA (It can do a max of 22spt atm, but we'd need 24/23/23 for a warlord every 3 turns).
Alliances are very expensive, but we need some distraction as we don't want the entire Roman military heading for us, so I buy in the Franks for 22gpt.
Use most of our treasury to upgrade more pillagers.
IT: lose a warlord to a Byzantine heavy cav which appeared out of the fog along the southern road...I think I may have to do a strategic pillage of that road to sow the Byzantine cavalr...unfortunately this will slow us down also when we go on the offensive, but needs must...
The other heavy cav ignores the worker bait and instead attacks the city, but retreats against our pillager.
Turn 9, 452AD: kill the redlined heavy cavalry with a horseman. Kill the heavy cavalry that killed our warlord with another warlord, no maurauder produced.
A raider leaves Ufarplapja and pillages the road on the forest just outside our territory, so we will now have advance warning or first attack against any heavy cavalry that appear there.
Sign ROP with the Ostrogoths to allow their troops to move through our territory quicker.
IT: Byzantine heavy cav attacking city retreats, we lose an exploring raider to a Roman heavy cav, but a warlord fortified on a mountain defeats an attacking heavy cav and promotes, our first elite unit.
Ufarplapja riots, my bad, I thought I'd checked it. Eastern Rome declares on the Franks, as the MPP again kicks in.
Turn 10, 454AD: use a raider to kill the redlined heavy cav. Use another raider to protect our wines from a garrison that is close by.
I'm not sure about the best option for Alarichburgs for now: I have some workers mining a hill to try to get to 24 spt asap. At the moment, we can take a warlord every 4 turns, with a lot of waste, or a spear or cat every turn with minimal waste. I'll leave it to the next player to decide, it's on warlord for now.
Our military is quite scattered so the next player should take some time to familiarize troops positions. We have 4 migrants in Alarichburgs that can be used to fill gaps once they appear.
Our lands are more or less clear, we'll have to see what happens in the next 3-4 turns to plan an offensive.
The Save
Nad
Known Troublemaker
Here's a pic of our current situation:
Battle is now truly joined. We're at war with the two largest armies in the world, who both happen to be our neighbors and tremedously advanced technologically. On the plus side, we have a few allies, better units, and a GA. Let's make the most of it.
Before opening the save, my goal(s) are:
- Raze some cities -- probably 2 Eastern Roman and 1 Western Roman, as I remember the map
- Get an army of warlords together
- Make a few more allies
Let's get it on....
Opening army consists of 7 workers, 4 migrants, 14 raiders, 3 spearmen, 3 horsemen, 13 catapults, 17 warlords, and 6 pillagers, not counting 2 slaves and 3 captured mauraders. This army is weak compared to nearly everyone, except a couple barbarian tribes who are similarly in dire straits.
(0) 454 - Well, check out our potential alliance situation. First priority would be to get the Sassanids involved, but they're insulted at the prospect of attacking either Byzantium or the Romans for anything we could offer them. Franks were a very good choice for alliance, so kudos to Nad for that. That should cause all sorts of difficulties for Western Rome, as they have a broad front. Might well eliminate the Franks as a threat, too, which can't be all bad. We really need a friend vs. the Eastern Romans (Byazantines), too. Sassanids are only really logical choice, but that's not an option currently. Hmmm....
Huns wouldn't be a BAD option, but, they, too, are insulted at the thought of attacking either Rome. Check the Vandals, as they would open another painful front if they joined against us. It's a no-go there, too. Sigh.
Ostrogoths have lost the most cities, 2, according to F8. Eastern Rome is over 19 000 towards the 35 000 VPs they need for victory. We gotta prune them. I'll start saving up to buy in Sassanids ASAP.
Do some MM at the capital, giving it a bit of growth and fewer shields for a bit, until it can do a warlord in 3, at which point it will go high shields and do that, losing some built-up food. Every trick in the book counts in a GA.
Do very little other MM, but note that we're, approximately, 100 zillion workers short of where we should be. I'll try to find a way to rectify that, but it's gonna be tough. Lots of other demands on our time, people, and shields.
Very minimal troop movement. Just trying to save all our positions. Cross fingers, fearing the unknown, and hit enter.
(I) Takes approximately forever, but the only action of note is a Roman legionary dying against an Ostrogoth.
(1) 456 - Troop movement. Enslave another maurader. Still no alliances available.
(I) Ostrogoths and Western Rome make peace...!#@$&!(@#$! back-stabbers. As I understand the rules, that's automatic peace then with the Eastern Romans for the Ostrogoths, too. We can't have that. We *NEED* them on our side. I was right. Immediate pop-up following the peace with West was peace with East. Umm...sh!t.
Get a worker from a defending pillager. Is it 100% for the barb troops? SoG produces another desperately-needed warlord.
(2) 458 - GREAT! Just GREAT!!! All our gold and gpt won't convince the Ostrogoths to go back to war with either Rome. And with me having moved troops away from the Ostrogoth border where they were defending us in strength, we're wide open. Sigh.
Apparently successful battles do not enslave 100% of the time. But the maurader does beat a garrison in open territory, barely. Will make a major move this turn. But, because of geography, it's going to be against Western Rome a bit first.
Whip a barracks in Alvei in the south for healing and upgrading purposes.
(I) Alarich completes spearman and can now reach a 23/23/24 shield rotation for warlord every 3, with a slight loss in food (only 3 in bank), but it begins this process now. We need a lot of troops, being about the only ones fighting anyone at this point.
(3) 460 - Everything we can offer doesn't get anybody above "Doubt they will accept" offers for alliances. I hope razing a city or two will change their minds some. As it is, this could get painful. We're not getting hit too hard with attacks, though, which is keeping us somewhat alive.
(I) Lose a city...darn warlords in a town of size 7, with walls, can't either one beat an attacking cav who rode up out of the mist. Swear, curse. In another part of the world, a defending warlord barely beats an attacking archer. It's not pretty right now.
(4) 462 - Elite warlord barely defeats defending HCav. What's the world coming to? Go 5-1 with warlords vs. legionaries at Aquincum, and there's no visible end of defenders in sight. Yuck. How many units do they frickin' have? At least 7 fully healthy leagionaries defending the city, not counting possible/probably Roman garrisons. That's ridiculous.
I despair of ever finding somebody else who will fight with us. This is gonna get ugly. I don't know if I can even recapture our lost city anytime soon. We're already 12% eliminated.
(I) Still takes forever. But a bit of good news! Vandals and Franks sign an alliance against Eastern Rome. An ally and one semi-safe area. Does the unit defensive bombard actually work? This is the fourth or fifth time I've seen the animation and haven't done a bit of damage yet. A 12 or even a 9 defensive bombard should hit more often than that, no?
(5) 464 - At Aguincum, warlords with at least 4 hps go 3-0, creating two mauraders, and one GL (that third guy enslaved and created a GL -- what a team). By my estimate, there shouldn't be more than another 50 defending legionaries in there.
(I) Lose an explorer way out east to a Byzantium HCav. Have a successful unit bombard defense, lead to retreating a HCav.
(6) 466 - Army attack Aquincum and removes last legionary. We raze the place. There was a worker there, and from a size 5 town, we only get one other worker. This relieves cultural pressure on Oester, too, which is nice. Recapture Ufar. Shouldn't have lost it in the first place. Move in appropriate defenders, to not lose it again. I probably couldn't captured it last turn, but I would have promptly lost it again, so this was the safer course.
For all our 26 gpt and all our 100 gold and our only silver, Ostrogoths will ally with us vs. Western Rome. That seems more than a bit steep, so I don't do it. But it's nice to know it could possibly be done. It won't work against the Byzantines, though. Sassanids still won't budge at all.
(I) Lose maurader and kill archer + HCav. That's a good trade. Then, somehow, a HCav gets to a worker of ours and disbands it. I could've sworn I had them all far from the border. Sigh. That's not an easy loss to take.
(7) 468 - Harbrun founded to get us a VP location. Defended by two mauraders, currently, with some other troops coming in before TOO long. Get a slave from the worker-killing HCav, so it's not a total loss. Kill various other troops -- a couple HCav here, a Roman garrison there. Defend our cities and advance on others. Fill our army to full with 4 warlords. It will be our spearhead. I hope my 5 units in Harbrun will be enough to keep it safe.
(I) So very long. It takes forever. Hard to pay attention to see what happens.
(8) 470 - Nothing really happens.
(I) Romans ask for an audience. They offer peace straight up. I decline without a second thought.
(9) 472 - Began gathering a migrant and forces in Oestergarn for another city (or two) in the south and west. I'll post a dotmap with a couple of suggested dots. I'll leave the next player with some forces to hit Sirdium and/or Singidunum on his first turn. How nice of me!
(I) CHEER! Ostrogoths and Franks sign an alliance against Western Rome. That should clear up a Roman city in the north I had a few warlords moving towards, as well as let me breathe easier about our northern flank. Retreat one HCav and see two others move into view.
(10) 474 - Kill 3 HCavs with no losses. Into position, with back-ups coming from a different direction. Feel free to reroute the stack by Alveist south if you think the troops by the S cities will be sufficient. They might be, but I'm paranoid after all the units in Aquincum.
We've got 3 prongs going right now -- north towards Alveis-A with 4 warlords (should be lightly defended because it was an Ostrogoth city originally), south towards Sirdium and/or Singidinum and in the south, possibly headed for S/S, too, but maybe should head towards Constantinople????
We're going to need more settler guys. We have a LOT of cities we should still build. We're slowly getting to the point where we should build some of them, too. BTW, Harbrun has seen no action, but it's always hot'n'heavy by Ufar. Something to keep in mind.
I've not done final diplo checks. We might be able to afford an alliance now.
Final military: 7 workers, 3 migrants, 12 raiders, 6 spearmen, 6 horsemen, 17 catapults, 1 army, 23 warlords, 4 pillagers, and 6 slaves and 7 enslaved mauraders.
According to F8, Western Rome is now at 23260 VPs. Figure they're gaining between 4000 and 5000 every 10 turns, so we have 2 1/2 player turns to destroy both Romes. Western Rome has lost 4 cities and Eastern Rome has lost at least 1, so we're making progress. Migrants (and the means to defend them) will become important soon, I fear. But we'll have a bit of time to fear up for the rest of the barbs after the Romes are gone.
We're exactly halfway (75 turns) into the game. Keep the battle going.
Arathorn
Before opening the save, my goal(s) are:
- Raze some cities -- probably 2 Eastern Roman and 1 Western Roman, as I remember the map
- Get an army of warlords together
- Make a few more allies
Let's get it on....
Opening army consists of 7 workers, 4 migrants, 14 raiders, 3 spearmen, 3 horsemen, 13 catapults, 17 warlords, and 6 pillagers, not counting 2 slaves and 3 captured mauraders. This army is weak compared to nearly everyone, except a couple barbarian tribes who are similarly in dire straits.
(0) 454 - Well, check out our potential alliance situation. First priority would be to get the Sassanids involved, but they're insulted at the prospect of attacking either Byzantium or the Romans for anything we could offer them. Franks were a very good choice for alliance, so kudos to Nad for that. That should cause all sorts of difficulties for Western Rome, as they have a broad front. Might well eliminate the Franks as a threat, too, which can't be all bad. We really need a friend vs. the Eastern Romans (Byazantines), too. Sassanids are only really logical choice, but that's not an option currently. Hmmm....
Huns wouldn't be a BAD option, but, they, too, are insulted at the thought of attacking either Rome. Check the Vandals, as they would open another painful front if they joined against us. It's a no-go there, too. Sigh.
Ostrogoths have lost the most cities, 2, according to F8. Eastern Rome is over 19 000 towards the 35 000 VPs they need for victory. We gotta prune them. I'll start saving up to buy in Sassanids ASAP.
Do some MM at the capital, giving it a bit of growth and fewer shields for a bit, until it can do a warlord in 3, at which point it will go high shields and do that, losing some built-up food. Every trick in the book counts in a GA.
Do very little other MM, but note that we're, approximately, 100 zillion workers short of where we should be. I'll try to find a way to rectify that, but it's gonna be tough. Lots of other demands on our time, people, and shields.
Very minimal troop movement. Just trying to save all our positions. Cross fingers, fearing the unknown, and hit enter.
(I) Takes approximately forever, but the only action of note is a Roman legionary dying against an Ostrogoth.
(1) 456 - Troop movement. Enslave another maurader. Still no alliances available.
(I) Ostrogoths and Western Rome make peace...!#@$&!(@#$! back-stabbers. As I understand the rules, that's automatic peace then with the Eastern Romans for the Ostrogoths, too. We can't have that. We *NEED* them on our side. I was right. Immediate pop-up following the peace with West was peace with East. Umm...sh!t.
Get a worker from a defending pillager. Is it 100% for the barb troops? SoG produces another desperately-needed warlord.
(2) 458 - GREAT! Just GREAT!!! All our gold and gpt won't convince the Ostrogoths to go back to war with either Rome. And with me having moved troops away from the Ostrogoth border where they were defending us in strength, we're wide open. Sigh.
Apparently successful battles do not enslave 100% of the time. But the maurader does beat a garrison in open territory, barely. Will make a major move this turn. But, because of geography, it's going to be against Western Rome a bit first.
Whip a barracks in Alvei in the south for healing and upgrading purposes.
(I) Alarich completes spearman and can now reach a 23/23/24 shield rotation for warlord every 3, with a slight loss in food (only 3 in bank), but it begins this process now. We need a lot of troops, being about the only ones fighting anyone at this point.
(3) 460 - Everything we can offer doesn't get anybody above "Doubt they will accept" offers for alliances. I hope razing a city or two will change their minds some. As it is, this could get painful. We're not getting hit too hard with attacks, though, which is keeping us somewhat alive.
(I) Lose a city...darn warlords in a town of size 7, with walls, can't either one beat an attacking cav who rode up out of the mist. Swear, curse. In another part of the world, a defending warlord barely beats an attacking archer. It's not pretty right now.
(4) 462 - Elite warlord barely defeats defending HCav. What's the world coming to? Go 5-1 with warlords vs. legionaries at Aquincum, and there's no visible end of defenders in sight. Yuck. How many units do they frickin' have? At least 7 fully healthy leagionaries defending the city, not counting possible/probably Roman garrisons. That's ridiculous.
I despair of ever finding somebody else who will fight with us. This is gonna get ugly. I don't know if I can even recapture our lost city anytime soon. We're already 12% eliminated.
(I) Still takes forever. But a bit of good news! Vandals and Franks sign an alliance against Eastern Rome. An ally and one semi-safe area. Does the unit defensive bombard actually work? This is the fourth or fifth time I've seen the animation and haven't done a bit of damage yet. A 12 or even a 9 defensive bombard should hit more often than that, no?
(5) 464 - At Aguincum, warlords with at least 4 hps go 3-0, creating two mauraders, and one GL (that third guy enslaved and created a GL -- what a team). By my estimate, there shouldn't be more than another 50 defending legionaries in there.
(I) Lose an explorer way out east to a Byzantium HCav. Have a successful unit bombard defense, lead to retreating a HCav.
(6) 466 - Army attack Aquincum and removes last legionary. We raze the place. There was a worker there, and from a size 5 town, we only get one other worker. This relieves cultural pressure on Oester, too, which is nice. Recapture Ufar. Shouldn't have lost it in the first place. Move in appropriate defenders, to not lose it again. I probably couldn't captured it last turn, but I would have promptly lost it again, so this was the safer course.
For all our 26 gpt and all our 100 gold and our only silver, Ostrogoths will ally with us vs. Western Rome. That seems more than a bit steep, so I don't do it. But it's nice to know it could possibly be done. It won't work against the Byzantines, though. Sassanids still won't budge at all.
(I) Lose maurader and kill archer + HCav. That's a good trade. Then, somehow, a HCav gets to a worker of ours and disbands it. I could've sworn I had them all far from the border. Sigh. That's not an easy loss to take.
(7) 468 - Harbrun founded to get us a VP location. Defended by two mauraders, currently, with some other troops coming in before TOO long. Get a slave from the worker-killing HCav, so it's not a total loss. Kill various other troops -- a couple HCav here, a Roman garrison there. Defend our cities and advance on others. Fill our army to full with 4 warlords. It will be our spearhead. I hope my 5 units in Harbrun will be enough to keep it safe.
(I) So very long. It takes forever. Hard to pay attention to see what happens.
(8) 470 - Nothing really happens.
(I) Romans ask for an audience. They offer peace straight up. I decline without a second thought.
(9) 472 - Began gathering a migrant and forces in Oestergarn for another city (or two) in the south and west. I'll post a dotmap with a couple of suggested dots. I'll leave the next player with some forces to hit Sirdium and/or Singidunum on his first turn. How nice of me!
(I) CHEER! Ostrogoths and Franks sign an alliance against Western Rome. That should clear up a Roman city in the north I had a few warlords moving towards, as well as let me breathe easier about our northern flank. Retreat one HCav and see two others move into view.
(10) 474 - Kill 3 HCavs with no losses. Into position, with back-ups coming from a different direction. Feel free to reroute the stack by Alveist south if you think the troops by the S cities will be sufficient. They might be, but I'm paranoid after all the units in Aquincum.
We've got 3 prongs going right now -- north towards Alveis-A with 4 warlords (should be lightly defended because it was an Ostrogoth city originally), south towards Sirdium and/or Singidinum and in the south, possibly headed for S/S, too, but maybe should head towards Constantinople????
We're going to need more settler guys. We have a LOT of cities we should still build. We're slowly getting to the point where we should build some of them, too. BTW, Harbrun has seen no action, but it's always hot'n'heavy by Ufar. Something to keep in mind.
I've not done final diplo checks. We might be able to afford an alliance now.
Final military: 7 workers, 3 migrants, 12 raiders, 6 spearmen, 6 horsemen, 17 catapults, 1 army, 23 warlords, 4 pillagers, and 6 slaves and 7 enslaved mauraders.
According to F8, Western Rome is now at 23260 VPs. Figure they're gaining between 4000 and 5000 every 10 turns, so we have 2 1/2 player turns to destroy both Romes. Western Rome has lost 4 cities and Eastern Rome has lost at least 1, so we're making progress. Migrants (and the means to defend them) will become important soon, I fear. But we'll have a bit of time to fear up for the rest of the barbs after the Romes are gone.
We're exactly halfway (75 turns) into the game. Keep the battle going.
Arathorn
Red dots I see as "fairly soon" cities. They keep the spacing about right, help with movement around the river, have growth potential, etc. The western one should be able to be formed in a turn or two.
Blue dots are more mid-term projects, by which I mean I think they should be formed in the next 10-15 turns or so. They'll continue to widen our production base, as well as claiming some VPs and putting us into position to maybe get another luxury or two. We'll have to put some city (back) on to migrant production.
And we still need workers.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/rbc12a-474ad.zip
Charis -- UP NOW
Aggie -- on deck
LKendter
Arathorn -- just played
Nad -- thanks for the swap
Arathorn
Nad
Known Troublemaker
wow, very well played Things were looking pretty hairy in the first half of your turns yet we are now well and truly on the offensive! Great stuff
The alliances were a real pain. I tried getting the Sassanids involved too but there was no way that was happening. The good thing is the multiplier effect...the more civs we get involved, the more likely one of them will buy in someone else. Already the Franks have done us a real favour, and I would be inclined to keep our money to buy in the Sassanids...let the others buy in the other barbarian tribes.
As the Celt thread has shown, being the civ to destory the 8th city of any civ is absolutely huge for VPs...if we can land the killing blow on both Romes that alone should take us somewhere close to victory. I find it ironic that our biggest weakness may turn out to be our biggest strength! The Visigoths are difficult to play because they are sandwiched between the two Romes, but that also means that we have access to both civs and are in position to land killing blows
Things were looking pretty hairy in the first half of your turns yet we are now well and truly on the offensive! Great stuff The alliances were a real pain. I tried getting the Sassanids involved too but there was no way that was happening. The good thing is the multiplier effect...the more civs we get involved, the more likely one of them will buy in someone else. Already the Franks have done us a real favour, and I would be inclined to keep our money to buy in the Sassanids...let the others buy in the other barbarian tribes.
As the Celt thread has shown, being the civ to destory the 8th city of any civ is absolutely huge for VPs...if we can land the killing blow on both Romes that alone should take us somewhere close to victory. I find it ironic that our biggest weakness may turn out to be our biggest strength! The Visigoths are difficult to play because they are sandwiched between the two Romes, but that also means that we have access to both civs and are in position to land killing blows
Coffee
Cdn Expat
...if we can land the killing blow on both Romes that alone should take us somewhere close to victory.
I averaged the points from the Vandals & Celts game to try and estimate the VP's here. I get ~ 18000 points per Roman civ, enough to win for sure. Good luck.
I averaged the points from the Vandals & Celts game to try and estimate the VP's here. I get ~ 18000 points per Roman civ, enough to win for sure. Good luck.
Charis
Realms Beyond
I'm only now seeing the turn is done, sorry about the late "got it"
At least our backstabbing so-called Gothic 'brothers' paid cash for the alliance
Less than 3 player-turns before one of the Romes win??
On the plus side, if we wipe out both, we WILL surely win.
VP locations are utterly meaningless for us, and I'll neither garrison nor found for one. Lux, clean path home, forward rax... these are ok reasons for a city, but it looks to me like we need warlords and cats, in as high numbers as possible, with perhaps a small number of workers and migrants. Got to avail the GA production for warlords and alliances while we can.
Should be a fun turn, but dicey... wish me luck
Charis
At least our backstabbing so-called Gothic 'brothers' paid cash for the alliance
Less than 3 player-turns before one of the Romes win??
On the plus side, if we wipe out both, we WILL surely win.
VP locations are utterly meaningless for us, and I'll neither garrison nor found for one. Lux, clean path home, forward rax... these are ok reasons for a city, but it looks to me like we need warlords and cats, in as high numbers as possible, with perhaps a small number of workers and migrants. Got to avail the GA production for warlords and alliances while we can.
Should be a fun turn, but dicey... wish me luck
Charis
Nad
Known Troublemaker
Good luck!!!!!!!! 
Aggie
Deity
Charis, good skill to you
Nad
Known Troublemaker
Skill? Bah! KILLING!!!
Charis, good KILLING to you
Charis, good KILLING to you
Charis
Realms Beyond
Romes are at war with us, Franks, Ostrogoths, and Vandals. WRome has lost 4 cities,
ERome lost 1. The path to victory seems to be elimination of this pair, not much else
seems to matter. We've got: 23 warlords, 17 cats, 4 Pillager, 12 raider, 6 spear, 6 horse,
and 1 army. (One or two more of the latter would seal it) On power and culture we are
rock bottom. We're braced right up against ERome, and if WRome were to fall in next half-
dozen turns we would actually miss the killing blow. They hav a puny city NW of our
troops called Vindobona which will be next to die, or will be our easiest path to
poaching #8. Aquiliea is second choice for that. For ERome, We are adjacent to two,
near a third, two more to west, and... 3 tough core cities to the South. That's one more
than we need, so we neither have to cross the sea nor attack Constantinople, good!
(Although at size 6, and for crippling effect, Constantinople might be better choice
than Athens) (On closer look, I see a better camp-out-for-last WRome city -
Alveis, which looks like only we're near, and we have four warlords on the way.
(Did I mention I'm glad Ostro and Vandals are at war with Rome? An attack by either
of them would be disasterous)
My plan is as follows - raze two cities next to army. They're too far from our core
to defend and would suck up troops. Army head west for the two small towns, and to take
any WRome cities needed by the time it gets there. We'll send a detachment to Vindabona
immediately in case WRome is worse off than we think, and continue at Alveis. Any new
warlords will defend core and head South for more ERome cities. The army will join up
with them for the uncontested final blow against ERome. How long should all this take?
It looks doable within the next 25 turns, which is excellent, since *this is all the time
we have left before Rome will win* It's also why we can't afford to have only one huge
SOD going against one foe. If only our allies could hurt WRome and leave us the last city
then we could simply shift 4-5 Warlords west and SOD the East, but if that fails, WRome
would win before we could do anything about it. Likewise, we can't rely on Sassys to help.
We could get Construction for half our economy, hoping the other half could buy
Fortification, as that could save very critical turns & a few lives. The downside to this
would be a 0+0 economy post-GA, and the inability to buy allies. Do we need any though?
I look closely at the map and the number of rivers we need to cross to do our job is
small - not enough to tie our hands economically. Raider->Warlord is 120g, and I think
I would prefer about 8 of those instead of two techs.
Do we pull in Sassy vs (W)Rome? Folks were talking as if that would be great but we
can't make it happen. Sure we can! It would 'just' take 40gpt (after a temporary slider
move.) It would put us as -18gpt deficit however. Given how little time I think we have
and how large a benefit the Sassy's would be vs Eastern Rome, this is quite appealing.
"Ca-Ching" wouldn't give a second thought to ruining our economy for lasting gain.
(GA started in 450, should end in... 490, in 8 turns)
Looking at the dot map, btw, I've got a shorter estimate of game length left.
The rightmost red dot is so close to capital it would bump up corruption in several cities
that now have an ideal spt rate, and anything built in 10-15 turns would reach only
size 2 without even its rax finished by game end. So I'm avoiding shifting to migrants
(mea culpa if that decision turns out wrong).
[0] 474 AD - Unselund gives a plains tile to Wallia, Sineig gives silver hills to
Athanas, all else looks great. One raider is upgraded to warlord. We sent a few units
to check out Vindobona.
We're not planning on using any horses really, and Brennus will trade Construction
for them? Ok! Yes, it's a rep risk, but too late to matter. He'll even throw in 18g.
Done. Fortification is insanely cheap, about 100g! And no barbs have it, so I buy from
Sassy for 105g, sell it... er, no. Barb tribes can NOT purchase the tech.
River no longer slow us down, yay!
I pull the trigger and buy in Sassanids vs WRome, only to realize that the MPP-like
nature of the alliance will require Sass to attack WRome to trigger war with
Byzantium. This alliance will be seen to be weedy folly, or a stroke of brilliance!
(If you're a betting man, put your money on the former!) Before I cause any more
trouble, I hit return. (If Sassy buys more partners though, chance for better)
IBT - Huns and Ostrogoths ally vs WRome, yay! ERome then declares on Ostro.
WR HC and archer come out of fog not far from our capital, where the sleeping
migrant had wandered last turn.
[1] 476 - Marauder kills the HC, promoting. Alveishulundi is founded on a blue dot
south of iron. Warlord beats Legion at Singidunum, promoting and getting marauder
Tis good to be barbaric! Then another Marauder, and another?? Holy cow, it's not
on every win is it? Army beats two, losing 2 hp. Still several fresh legions left.
IBT - Aleveis of Rome is fighting another foe in the dark, presumably Ostro.
[2] 478 - Silubrweihs is founded on river-forest near wheat. First attack is at
Aleveis - with Ostro in, it won't last another round. Elite WL beats a garrison
after going red (no Marauder, so no silly, it's not all the time.) Next WL does
maraud, and razes the city. WRome has now lost *5*.
At Singidunum, Army kills two legions, nets two marauders. Then we lose a warlord,
but next one (elite) wins, creating a Mar as the city burns to ashes. I think, but
can't confirm, that's TWO ERome city losses. That's a major downside to hitting ERome
hard first while creeping on WRome - we can't tell for sure how many cities ERome has.
IBT - Brennus the unwise demands tribute (TM+21g). He can't be serious, can he?
By himself he's no threat, but ANY one who were to ally with Vandals or Ostrogoths
against us is a far bigger pain than 21g. We relent.
Franks have a large Warlord stack near Vindo, but don't move toward it. Do they
have a target?
[3] 480 - I look at Power graph to see if Celts need to pay for the privilege of
peace. They don't, but Anglos agree to pay 18g for that glorious freedom.
Auhsahaivi is founded, and could use one more blue dot city near it, so
it starts a Migrant. Sirmium gets the double smack of our army this turn.
IBT - Frank SOD moves away, but now a Vandal SOD moves up. Hmm...
[4] 482 - Three warlords hit Sirmium (trying to fish a bit more now). It's down
to a garrison. An elite horse hits it... goes red, wins, and... city is razed.
EROME has now lost at least *3*. Some units will now head South to get Herakleia,
but the Amry really needs to boogie west now, as our allies are doing zilch so far
against WRome. IBT - Huns and Ostro ally vs ERome. Celts and Huns ally vs WRome.
The dogpile is truly on now, and unless Celts are *truly* incompetent, they should
really eat up some WRome towns in England. ERome sneaks a garrison and treb (??)
along the fog road to near us. A single HC takes out an advance horse scout,
but ends up next to a warlord.
[5] 484 - Army reaches Sardica - just a garrison on top. One dies.
IBT - Large Vandal stack continues on *past* our lightly defended city. Phew!
Three random Roman units walk into the open. Er... ok.
[6] 486 - Herakleia hit by a cat, reg legion is hurt. Nothing else comes on top??
Oh, I smell fish. Two elite warlords win, but the fish smell disappears, a false aroma.
Vindobona loses two legions to our warlords (yet no marauders?!??) Then mar beats
garrison, mar loses, horse beats garrison, one more (at least) left.
I notice WRome now has lost *six* cities. It would be *ideal* if they lost precisely
one more IBT, as it's looking like Vindobana is takable by our forces in 1 turn.
In fact, now at six, I must hold OFF hitting Vindo again until we have forces
somewhere next to a WRome town (Aquilea, it would seem)
IBT - Anglo and Huns ally vs ERome. Frank SOD seems to divert, and might be heading
at Vindo?!
[7] 488 - WRome still is down *6*. Hmmm... Our units at Vindo fan out slightly to
protect the city! Some deal must have expired, now we're at +20gpt not -9gpt, which
is particularly good since our treasury is now 19g. Elites attack Heraclea and win,
but no leader. City is razed. *ERome now has lost about *4*. (27,085VP)
IBT - Sass and Vandals ally vs ERome (yay!!) Now the Sass are in it for *real*
with Eastern Rome. Now the downfall of *both Romes* is being hastened, and we
MUST be in position to benefit from the last kill! Western Rome then declares on
Vandals.
[8] 490 - Should be our last GA turn. WRome *still* is down 6 cities. Come on Brennus!
ERome VP at 27,520, +435/turn, so they're due to win in... 18 turns!!??!
That's turn 101, almost according to schedule! Come on Sassy! (ERome is now ahead of WR)
Note, we'll never reach Athens in time! That makes the last ERome cities to be:
Sardica, Salonae, Thessalonica and Constantinople - all four are needed MINUS one for
any cities the Sassanids can kill. I would say that will be 1-3 based on the map,
but tis just a guess. A HC retreats from our WL, Byz horses are pillaged, and the
army kills to garrisons to raze Sardica. *ERome has now lost 5*. The army seems to
be about six turns from Aquilea. I'm not sure Vinco can last that long, so we REALLY
need Celts or someone to kill ONE Roman city... now!
IBT - Anglos and Celts ally vs WRome. The Franks do not wish to continue the WRome
alliance where we pay 22gpt. Ok, no problem.
Yikes, Vindobana is being attacked from the rear out of the fog!!
Not once, but twice, killing two garrisons. What may be it's LAST garrison remains!!?!?
Our GA is reported to be expired.
[9] 492 - With something between trepidation and horror, I look to the VP screen. WRome...
ugh! STILL has six cities left 8-\ Number seven we've tried to protect, but there
are literally hordes of Warlords of all nations trying to envelop it, and at least
two in the rear. That means we're uncomfortably far from #8. The only redeeming factor
is that we're #3 in VP. If we take out one Rome and someone else takes out another
we should still be ahead. Worst case is Sassys take ERome and we fail to take WRome.
Tough call - we could get a few VP for taking Vindo now, but with no other units
near a Roman city that punts on a much larger prize. There's a small chance the units
behind Vindo were hurt last round, so we hold off one last round. Actually, we can step
up on the hill for a better look. One fresh Marauder and one hurt reg warlord.
IBT - Ostrogoths ask for RoP. Sure thing, don't want to tick them off. We see in
England a red dot disappear (oh for pete sake, Brennus, you couldn't do that one turn
earlier?! 8-\ ) Here comes the Vandal attack...
Marauder loses, promoting the garrison who barely got hurt? Not bad!
Warlord up... warlord down!! [dance]
Ha! The AI blunders cancel out - Celtic slowness and the Vandal sending two
units to do the job and having a stack of *13* warlords just an extra step away!
[10] 494 - Our forces outside Vindobona are pumped up and ready to finally go!
Vet warlord swings, doesn't take a scratch, creates a Marauder and...
... eliminates the Western Roman empire!
Our VP goes up from 8185 to 14,745. Hmm, ok, NOT as high as I expected for Deity.
We're WAY out ahead (Ostro and Sassanids with 5100 each), but far from locked up.
Still, if we went more migrants earlier, it would jeopardize killing Rome in time
to avoid losing. We're still tight, with *16* turns before Byzantines win on VP,
and they need to lose 3 more cities. There ARE 3 in range, but probably well defended.
You mind send the army down now instead of using it to quick kill Salonae. Count the
turns it will take to get down to Constantinople.
There are many partial moves left, as this is now the next leader's campaign.
It's now up to Aggie to take out a city or two, watch Sass-Byz war and city count
like a hawk, and chances are... Lee will be "da man," with the outcome at stake
on his watch!
After all those warm wishes, luck was big this turn and skill was wishy-washy. Bad luck on worst possible timing for AI results in war vs Rome, then a good round for one garrison. I threw away about 800g to the Sassy cause but then again they did eagerly ally later against East Rome. A tangled web. That was a mentally exhausting turn, but... a very fun one too
RBC12A Vizigoths 494AD
Charis
Aggie <-- UP
LKendter <-- on deck
Arathorn
Nad
Good luck!
Charis
ERome lost 1. The path to victory seems to be elimination of this pair, not much else
seems to matter. We've got: 23 warlords, 17 cats, 4 Pillager, 12 raider, 6 spear, 6 horse,
and 1 army. (One or two more of the latter would seal it) On power and culture we are
rock bottom. We're braced right up against ERome, and if WRome were to fall in next half-
dozen turns we would actually miss the killing blow. They hav a puny city NW of our
troops called Vindobona which will be next to die, or will be our easiest path to
poaching #8. Aquiliea is second choice for that. For ERome, We are adjacent to two,
near a third, two more to west, and... 3 tough core cities to the South. That's one more
than we need, so we neither have to cross the sea nor attack Constantinople, good!
(Although at size 6, and for crippling effect, Constantinople might be better choice
than Athens) (On closer look, I see a better camp-out-for-last WRome city -
Alveis, which looks like only we're near, and we have four warlords on the way.
(Did I mention I'm glad Ostro and Vandals are at war with Rome? An attack by either
of them would be disasterous)
My plan is as follows - raze two cities next to army. They're too far from our core
to defend and would suck up troops. Army head west for the two small towns, and to take
any WRome cities needed by the time it gets there. We'll send a detachment to Vindabona
immediately in case WRome is worse off than we think, and continue at Alveis. Any new
warlords will defend core and head South for more ERome cities. The army will join up
with them for the uncontested final blow against ERome. How long should all this take?
It looks doable within the next 25 turns, which is excellent, since *this is all the time
we have left before Rome will win* It's also why we can't afford to have only one huge
SOD going against one foe. If only our allies could hurt WRome and leave us the last city
then we could simply shift 4-5 Warlords west and SOD the East, but if that fails, WRome
would win before we could do anything about it. Likewise, we can't rely on Sassys to help.
We could get Construction for half our economy, hoping the other half could buy
Fortification, as that could save very critical turns & a few lives. The downside to this
would be a 0+0 economy post-GA, and the inability to buy allies. Do we need any though?
I look closely at the map and the number of rivers we need to cross to do our job is
small - not enough to tie our hands economically. Raider->Warlord is 120g, and I think
I would prefer about 8 of those instead of two techs.
Do we pull in Sassy vs (W)Rome? Folks were talking as if that would be great but we
can't make it happen. Sure we can! It would 'just' take 40gpt (after a temporary slider
move.) It would put us as -18gpt deficit however. Given how little time I think we have
and how large a benefit the Sassy's would be vs Eastern Rome, this is quite appealing.
"Ca-Ching" wouldn't give a second thought to ruining our economy for lasting gain.
(GA started in 450, should end in... 490, in 8 turns)
Looking at the dot map, btw, I've got a shorter estimate of game length left.
The rightmost red dot is so close to capital it would bump up corruption in several cities
that now have an ideal spt rate, and anything built in 10-15 turns would reach only
size 2 without even its rax finished by game end. So I'm avoiding shifting to migrants
(mea culpa if that decision turns out wrong).
[0] 474 AD - Unselund gives a plains tile to Wallia, Sineig gives silver hills to
Athanas, all else looks great. One raider is upgraded to warlord. We sent a few units
to check out Vindobona.
We're not planning on using any horses really, and Brennus will trade Construction
for them? Ok! Yes, it's a rep risk, but too late to matter. He'll even throw in 18g.
Done. Fortification is insanely cheap, about 100g! And no barbs have it, so I buy from
Sassy for 105g, sell it... er, no. Barb tribes can NOT purchase the tech.
River no longer slow us down, yay!
I pull the trigger and buy in Sassanids vs WRome, only to realize that the MPP-like
nature of the alliance will require Sass to attack WRome to trigger war with
Byzantium. This alliance will be seen to be weedy folly, or a stroke of brilliance!
(If you're a betting man, put your money on the former!) Before I cause any more
trouble, I hit return. (If Sassy buys more partners though, chance for better)
IBT - Huns and Ostrogoths ally vs WRome, yay! ERome then declares on Ostro.
WR HC and archer come out of fog not far from our capital, where the sleeping
migrant had wandered last turn.
[1] 476 - Marauder kills the HC, promoting. Alveishulundi is founded on a blue dot
south of iron. Warlord beats Legion at Singidunum, promoting and getting marauder
Tis good to be barbaric! Then another Marauder, and another?? Holy cow, it's not
on every win is it? Army beats two, losing 2 hp. Still several fresh legions left.
IBT - Aleveis of Rome is fighting another foe in the dark, presumably Ostro.
[2] 478 - Silubrweihs is founded on river-forest near wheat. First attack is at
Aleveis - with Ostro in, it won't last another round. Elite WL beats a garrison
after going red (no Marauder, so no silly, it's not all the time.) Next WL does
maraud, and razes the city. WRome has now lost *5*.
At Singidunum, Army kills two legions, nets two marauders. Then we lose a warlord,
but next one (elite) wins, creating a Mar as the city burns to ashes. I think, but
can't confirm, that's TWO ERome city losses. That's a major downside to hitting ERome
hard first while creeping on WRome - we can't tell for sure how many cities ERome has.
IBT - Brennus the unwise demands tribute (TM+21g). He can't be serious, can he?
By himself he's no threat, but ANY one who were to ally with Vandals or Ostrogoths
against us is a far bigger pain than 21g. We relent.
Franks have a large Warlord stack near Vindo, but don't move toward it. Do they
have a target?
[3] 480 - I look at Power graph to see if Celts need to pay for the privilege of
peace. They don't, but Anglos agree to pay 18g for that glorious freedom.
Auhsahaivi is founded, and could use one more blue dot city near it, so
it starts a Migrant. Sirmium gets the double smack of our army this turn.
IBT - Frank SOD moves away, but now a Vandal SOD moves up. Hmm...
[4] 482 - Three warlords hit Sirmium (trying to fish a bit more now). It's down
to a garrison. An elite horse hits it... goes red, wins, and... city is razed.
EROME has now lost at least *3*. Some units will now head South to get Herakleia,
but the Amry really needs to boogie west now, as our allies are doing zilch so far
against WRome. IBT - Huns and Ostro ally vs ERome. Celts and Huns ally vs WRome.
The dogpile is truly on now, and unless Celts are *truly* incompetent, they should
really eat up some WRome towns in England. ERome sneaks a garrison and treb (??)
along the fog road to near us. A single HC takes out an advance horse scout,
but ends up next to a warlord.
[5] 484 - Army reaches Sardica - just a garrison on top. One dies.
IBT - Large Vandal stack continues on *past* our lightly defended city. Phew!
Three random Roman units walk into the open. Er... ok.
[6] 486 - Herakleia hit by a cat, reg legion is hurt. Nothing else comes on top??
Oh, I smell fish. Two elite warlords win, but the fish smell disappears, a false aroma.
Vindobona loses two legions to our warlords (yet no marauders?!??) Then mar beats
garrison, mar loses, horse beats garrison, one more (at least) left.
I notice WRome now has lost *six* cities. It would be *ideal* if they lost precisely
one more IBT, as it's looking like Vindobana is takable by our forces in 1 turn.
In fact, now at six, I must hold OFF hitting Vindo again until we have forces
somewhere next to a WRome town (Aquilea, it would seem)
IBT - Anglo and Huns ally vs ERome. Frank SOD seems to divert, and might be heading
at Vindo?!
[7] 488 - WRome still is down *6*. Hmmm... Our units at Vindo fan out slightly to
protect the city! Some deal must have expired, now we're at +20gpt not -9gpt, which
is particularly good since our treasury is now 19g. Elites attack Heraclea and win,
but no leader. City is razed. *ERome now has lost about *4*. (27,085VP)
IBT - Sass and Vandals ally vs ERome (yay!!) Now the Sass are in it for *real*
with Eastern Rome. Now the downfall of *both Romes* is being hastened, and we
MUST be in position to benefit from the last kill! Western Rome then declares on
Vandals.
[8] 490 - Should be our last GA turn. WRome *still* is down 6 cities. Come on Brennus!
ERome VP at 27,520, +435/turn, so they're due to win in... 18 turns!!??!
That's turn 101, almost according to schedule! Come on Sassy! (ERome is now ahead of WR)
Note, we'll never reach Athens in time! That makes the last ERome cities to be:
Sardica, Salonae, Thessalonica and Constantinople - all four are needed MINUS one for
any cities the Sassanids can kill. I would say that will be 1-3 based on the map,
but tis just a guess. A HC retreats from our WL, Byz horses are pillaged, and the
army kills to garrisons to raze Sardica. *ERome has now lost 5*. The army seems to
be about six turns from Aquilea. I'm not sure Vinco can last that long, so we REALLY
need Celts or someone to kill ONE Roman city... now!
IBT - Anglos and Celts ally vs WRome. The Franks do not wish to continue the WRome
alliance where we pay 22gpt. Ok, no problem.
Yikes, Vindobana is being attacked from the rear out of the fog!!
Not once, but twice, killing two garrisons. What may be it's LAST garrison remains!!?!?
Our GA is reported to be expired.
[9] 492 - With something between trepidation and horror, I look to the VP screen. WRome...
ugh! STILL has six cities left 8-\ Number seven we've tried to protect, but there
are literally hordes of Warlords of all nations trying to envelop it, and at least
two in the rear. That means we're uncomfortably far from #8. The only redeeming factor
is that we're #3 in VP. If we take out one Rome and someone else takes out another
we should still be ahead. Worst case is Sassys take ERome and we fail to take WRome.
Tough call - we could get a few VP for taking Vindo now, but with no other units
near a Roman city that punts on a much larger prize. There's a small chance the units
behind Vindo were hurt last round, so we hold off one last round. Actually, we can step
up on the hill for a better look. One fresh Marauder and one hurt reg warlord.
IBT - Ostrogoths ask for RoP. Sure thing, don't want to tick them off. We see in
England a red dot disappear (oh for pete sake, Brennus, you couldn't do that one turn
earlier?! 8-\ ) Here comes the Vandal attack...
Marauder loses, promoting the garrison who barely got hurt? Not bad!
Warlord up... warlord down!! [dance]
Ha! The AI blunders cancel out - Celtic slowness and the Vandal sending two
units to do the job and having a stack of *13* warlords just an extra step away!
[10] 494 - Our forces outside Vindobona are pumped up and ready to finally go!
Vet warlord swings, doesn't take a scratch, creates a Marauder and...
... eliminates the Western Roman empire!
Our VP goes up from 8185 to 14,745. Hmm, ok, NOT as high as I expected for Deity.
We're WAY out ahead (Ostro and Sassanids with 5100 each), but far from locked up.
Still, if we went more migrants earlier, it would jeopardize killing Rome in time
to avoid losing. We're still tight, with *16* turns before Byzantines win on VP,
and they need to lose 3 more cities. There ARE 3 in range, but probably well defended.
You mind send the army down now instead of using it to quick kill Salonae. Count the
turns it will take to get down to Constantinople.
There are many partial moves left, as this is now the next leader's campaign.
It's now up to Aggie to take out a city or two, watch Sass-Byz war and city count
like a hawk, and chances are... Lee will be "da man," with the outcome at stake
on his watch!
After all those warm wishes, luck was big this turn and skill was wishy-washy. Bad luck on worst possible timing for AI results in war vs Rome, then a good round for one garrison. I threw away about 800g to the Sassy cause but then again they did eagerly ally later against East Rome. A tangled web. That was a mentally exhausting turn, but... a very fun one too
RBC12A Vizigoths 494AD
Charis
Aggie <-- UP
LKendter <-- on deck
Arathorn
Nad
Good luck!
Charis
Aggie
Deity
Goti it. I expect to play tomorrow night CET.
Nad
Known Troublemaker
ya see, I told you it was all about the killing 
That was a thrilling turn, Charis, edge of the seat stuff. I can imagine Aggie's turn will be similarly nerve-wracking. Good KILLING, mate!
That was a thrilling turn, Charis, edge of the seat stuff. I can imagine Aggie's turn will be similarly nerve-wracking. Good KILLING, mate!
Great fun to read. Edge-of-the-chair exciting. Not as many VPs as we'd hoped. That's probably a side effect of the huge dogpile -- they'd lost a bunch of units to all kinds of different people, so they didn't have as many left when the final blow was delivered. The Sid game got the best of that deal, defeating WRome pretty much single-handedly.
Aggie, have fun and good skill/luck/killing!
Arathorn
Aggie, have fun and good skill/luck/killing!
Arathorn
Charis
Realms Beyond
I was so wired with that ending. I think I finished around 3 without feeling the least bit sleepy. With "only 5 turns" to go I couldn't stop in the middle either. My first reaction after seeing us lose 'control' over WRome was that we really should have gone for them (in a city taking point of view) rather than dip down for the 2-3 Byz cities (Sirmium and Singidunum), but then I realized if we had bypassed them, gone more west and come back down for ERome, that the most likely outcome would be arriving 1-2 turns LATE at Constantinople, losing the game. So Arathorn's cut into the heart of the two opponents choice was dead on. (If the AI was competent there would have been no crisis that we saw) Incredibly tight timing in this scenario - so much can swing over a 1-2 turn delay - clearly that's an exciting factor if you make it by 1-2, or a frustrating factor if you miss by 1-2. Also, I didn't think "enough VP between turn 100 and 120" for Rome to win would turn out to be '101'
We have longer to go than I thought, and when I look at 'our lands' compared to ANY of our nearest neighbors and I shudder. This is the crux of the "Vizigoth problem". VP is at 14K and we got 6.6K from WRome. If we get Byz we'll be at 20K with nearest rival still at 5K, but after Byz goes, 50 turns left. I think survival will mean victory, but will hastening the win by killing MORE civs make sense? We would need to kill probably 2-3 additional civs after ERome, but I don't recall any 'fresh meat' nearby, or anyone without a swarm of warlords. In fact, our neighbors have *so* many troops rujnning around, I'm sure that if/when any of them sees peace they will immediately find a new foe to fight.
Keep cash around to buy alliances -- if we get declared on we'll surely want to ally one or more to keep from getting dogpiled, and to keep from losing cities. After ERome crisis is over, perhaps make some migrants and found on a few more sites as Arathorn suggested. There should be open spices now to our west previously under ERome control, but I'm not sure if we would overextend ourselves to claim them.
Now let's see how the Sassanids change the equation. Go Aggie!
Charis
We have longer to go than I thought, and when I look at 'our lands' compared to ANY of our nearest neighbors and I shudder. This is the crux of the "Vizigoth problem". VP is at 14K and we got 6.6K from WRome. If we get Byz we'll be at 20K with nearest rival still at 5K, but after Byz goes, 50 turns left. I think survival will mean victory, but will hastening the win by killing MORE civs make sense? We would need to kill probably 2-3 additional civs after ERome, but I don't recall any 'fresh meat' nearby, or anyone without a swarm of warlords. In fact, our neighbors have *so* many troops rujnning around, I'm sure that if/when any of them sees peace they will immediately find a new foe to fight.
Keep cash around to buy alliances -- if we get declared on we'll surely want to ally one or more to keep from getting dogpiled, and to keep from losing cities. After ERome crisis is over, perhaps make some migrants and found on a few more sites as Arathorn suggested. There should be open spices now to our west previously under ERome control, but I'm not sure if we would overextend ourselves to claim them.
Now let's see how the Sassanids change the equation. Go Aggie!
Charis
Aggie
Deity
The Ostrogoths game showed me that you don't always need a lot of troops to kill an opponenent. 5 units were needed to cripple the Huns and take out 20+ cities. If we succeed to take out Rome, then I think we can send a fairly large portion of or military home and the rest on the edge of the seat near potential targets for the 8th city.
All of this is said without having looked at the save, since I'm at work now.
All of this is said without having looked at the save, since I'm at work now.
