jack merchant
Internationalist
Got it 
.
.
RBC13C - Tenacious Turks (Deity)
- Thread starter T_McC
- Start date
Things are moving forward nicely.
Have a few comments:
It seemed to me that this start position was all about spamming settlers until someone made us stop. There is a lot of land and resources to grab. There is a spice to the SE, which is only being competed for by one civ. Glad we got the Wines, but I would be inclined to let the next settler go long for the Spices. The city would be horribly corrupt, but another lux saves us big on the lux tax. Having 2 or 3 of Quarry, Iron, Horses, or Tar would put us in a dominant trade position, and make it easy to manipulate alliances when we start our war-making.
I also question the Barracks in Patzinak. It is our 2nd-biggest city, and a terrific site, but with a Granary it can do either 2-turn workers forever, or 4-turn settlers (at a slightly larger size) forever. I'm not sure it is in our best interests for this to be a military city.
We should have a bunch of cash, don't let it sit around for the barbs to take.
I can't really see the pictures, so is anyone starting to infringe on our north? Have we seen any settler pairs from the south? I thought our best start would have been to settle 3rd/4th ring immediately, and then race the AI to our remaining 1st and 2nd ring sites. It should be much easier to get 25% land by conquest if we start with 10% by settling.
Good Luck, Jack!
Have a few comments:
It seemed to me that this start position was all about spamming settlers until someone made us stop. There is a lot of land and resources to grab. There is a spice to the SE, which is only being competed for by one civ. Glad we got the Wines, but I would be inclined to let the next settler go long for the Spices. The city would be horribly corrupt, but another lux saves us big on the lux tax. Having 2 or 3 of Quarry, Iron, Horses, or Tar would put us in a dominant trade position, and make it easy to manipulate alliances when we start our war-making.
I also question the Barracks in Patzinak. It is our 2nd-biggest city, and a terrific site, but with a Granary it can do either 2-turn workers forever, or 4-turn settlers (at a slightly larger size) forever. I'm not sure it is in our best interests for this to be a military city.
We should have a bunch of cash, don't let it sit around for the barbs to take.
I can't really see the pictures, so is anyone starting to infringe on our north? Have we seen any settler pairs from the south? I thought our best start would have been to settle 3rd/4th ring immediately, and then race the AI to our remaining 1st and 2nd ring sites. It should be much easier to get 25% land by conquest if we start with 10% by settling.
Good Luck, Jack!
jack merchant
Internationalist
IHT: Hmmm, we're paying 13gpt for unit support - more cities seem to be called for. We also want our horses online sooner rather than later, methinks, but cities will come first as Kiev will be able to produce tons of ironless troops at deity prices. More cities first then.
Swap Patzinak (with growth in 1) to settler and rush it for 72 gold. Swap Bursa to settler too and will rush it next turn.
IT Lothair boots our troops, Rurik asks us a little more nicely.
948 AD (1) Patzinak settler - well, what ? Another settler for now, though that may become a barracks. Aydin worker - temple. Rush another settler out of Bursa for 80 gold.
Seems to me like some of the AIs reached the second age:
mind you, that's about 20 Keshiks
.
951 AD (2) Wines will have to wait, workers and their guards retreat into Antalya and pray.
IT The barb stack just sits there
. We'll have to wait for the Byzantines to dispatch them before we can connect our wines.
954 AD (3) The horse scouting ahead of the settler which went north from Patzinak reveals another stack of 'shiks. What to do ? I decide to plump it down where it stands:
Massive overlap, but that won't matter all that much in this scenario. I leave the elite horseman out of town so the barbs will hopefully ignore it and pillage instead. Now we're going to lose 78 gold regardless, in which case it's probably better to just spend it on something useful. Buy HBR from Celts (the least threatening AI civ) for 78gold + 15gpt.
A taxman is temporarily needed in Ghuzz as I had to pull out one of the warriors to kill a barb with.
IT Sinop absorbs about 15 Keshiks
957 AD (4) We meet the Castilians through our skiing King in the Alps. I don't know whether this is a bit exploitative, but I decide to leave Antalya empty so the tons of barbs in the area have something to do.
IT Sure enough, about 12 barbs kill one citizen, steal 5 gold and destroy worker production about 10 times. 5 more barbs show up in range.
960 AD (5) IT occurs to me that we will want to connect Antalya to Byzantium after the barbs are gone and we hook up the wines - we may be able to sell them our tar ! Given that that enables their UU, chances are they'll pay pretty good money (or tech) for it.
Another 8 barbs wreak havoc on empty Antalya.
963 AD (6) Found Kafa near the Black sea. Norse Tradition comes in, scientists (a second one was hired in Iznik to stop it from rioting) set to Castle Building for now to possibly reduce price a bit later. All three Norse civs have seafaring, Sweden still lacks Castle
Building but it's well out of our price range.
966 AD (7) I decide to disband our horseman on the North Sea since it keeps getting booted and only annoys people. Decide to build a trade route to Kievan Rus as maybe our iron can help get CB (I don't see us fighting them before Sipahi anyway).
Byzantines knock out most of the new Keshiks that showed up near Antalya.
969 AD (8) Iron and our income of 10gpt is only doubtful for CB from the Rus. Never mind that, then. With taxmen instead of scientists we can go up to 14gpt and get close to a deal, but maybe it's better to wait a bit more until our income picks up from cities rather than from taxmen before we pull the trigger on it.
Ghuzz - settler-worker. I suspect we will want to rush a temple in Ferrouz sooner or later both to bring the horse online and to insulate it from cultural pressure (which isn't there yet, but will be brought to bear sooner rather than later).
IT Byzantines steal our Quarry by Antalya through agressive settlement
972 AD (9) Wines finally connected to the rest of the empire. I do fire the tax collectors, which hurts our income but helps growth.
975 AD (10) There's a settler going soutth out of La Brea now; we can either send him to the far-off iron or quarry&spice spot or settle closer in the plains. The worker crew out of Antalya is heading to link up and can either build a new road or start helping improve our cities now (Byzantines keep getting in the way of being able to link up to them
). There's also a settler in Konya which can settle East of Iznik or further north along the river. We can afford to rush a settler out of Iznik this turn for 24g or out of Patzinak the next (for 52). Tons of settler pairs are coming our way already so we must hurry, which is why I've been prioritizing settlers over workers.
I've been trying to get at least our two closer horses home to maybe kill some archers with but it's slow going; our king is still in the Alps. Tenacity is the order of the day here, with CB still out of our price range and most of our cities still hopelessly improductive.
975 AD save
Swap Patzinak (with growth in 1) to settler and rush it for 72 gold. Swap Bursa to settler too and will rush it next turn.
IT Lothair boots our troops, Rurik asks us a little more nicely.
948 AD (1) Patzinak settler - well, what ? Another settler for now, though that may become a barracks. Aydin worker - temple. Rush another settler out of Bursa for 80 gold.
Seems to me like some of the AIs reached the second age:
mind you, that's about 20 Keshiks
. 951 AD (2) Wines will have to wait, workers and their guards retreat into Antalya and pray.
IT The barb stack just sits there
. We'll have to wait for the Byzantines to dispatch them before we can connect our wines.954 AD (3) The horse scouting ahead of the settler which went north from Patzinak reveals another stack of 'shiks. What to do ? I decide to plump it down where it stands:
Massive overlap, but that won't matter all that much in this scenario. I leave the elite horseman out of town so the barbs will hopefully ignore it and pillage instead. Now we're going to lose 78 gold regardless, in which case it's probably better to just spend it on something useful. Buy HBR from Celts (the least threatening AI civ) for 78gold + 15gpt.
A taxman is temporarily needed in Ghuzz as I had to pull out one of the warriors to kill a barb with.
IT Sinop absorbs about 15 Keshiks
957 AD (4) We meet the Castilians through our skiing King in the Alps. I don't know whether this is a bit exploitative, but I decide to leave Antalya empty so the tons of barbs in the area have something to do.
IT Sure enough, about 12 barbs kill one citizen, steal 5 gold and destroy worker production about 10 times. 5 more barbs show up in range.
960 AD (5) IT occurs to me that we will want to connect Antalya to Byzantium after the barbs are gone and we hook up the wines - we may be able to sell them our tar ! Given that that enables their UU, chances are they'll pay pretty good money (or tech) for it.
Another 8 barbs wreak havoc on empty Antalya.
963 AD (6) Found Kafa near the Black sea. Norse Tradition comes in, scientists (a second one was hired in Iznik to stop it from rioting) set to Castle Building for now to possibly reduce price a bit later. All three Norse civs have seafaring, Sweden still lacks Castle
Building but it's well out of our price range.
966 AD (7) I decide to disband our horseman on the North Sea since it keeps getting booted and only annoys people. Decide to build a trade route to Kievan Rus as maybe our iron can help get CB (I don't see us fighting them before Sipahi anyway).
Byzantines knock out most of the new Keshiks that showed up near Antalya.
969 AD (8) Iron and our income of 10gpt is only doubtful for CB from the Rus. Never mind that, then. With taxmen instead of scientists we can go up to 14gpt and get close to a deal, but maybe it's better to wait a bit more until our income picks up from cities rather than from taxmen before we pull the trigger on it.
Ghuzz - settler-worker. I suspect we will want to rush a temple in Ferrouz sooner or later both to bring the horse online and to insulate it from cultural pressure (which isn't there yet, but will be brought to bear sooner rather than later).
IT Byzantines steal our Quarry by Antalya through agressive settlement
972 AD (9) Wines finally connected to the rest of the empire. I do fire the tax collectors, which hurts our income but helps growth.
975 AD (10) There's a settler going soutth out of La Brea now; we can either send him to the far-off iron or quarry&spice spot or settle closer in the plains. The worker crew out of Antalya is heading to link up and can either build a new road or start helping improve our cities now (Byzantines keep getting in the way of being able to link up to them
). There's also a settler in Konya which can settle East of Iznik or further north along the river. We can afford to rush a settler out of Iznik this turn for 24g or out of Patzinak the next (for 52). Tons of settler pairs are coming our way already so we must hurry, which is why I've been prioritizing settlers over workers.I've been trying to get at least our two closer horses home to maybe kill some archers with but it's slow going; our king is still in the Alps. Tenacity is the order of the day here, with CB still out of our price range and most of our cities still hopelessly improductive.
975 AD save
RBC13C - The End of the Builder's Turns
975 AD (0)
Re-reading Jack's log. Have to see the situation on the ground. Good, lots of settlers coming online. I'll hold off on rushing any soon, but I'll need 3 to go down to the SE, and a bunch more to flesh out our core. We currently have 5 in production, and I can probably get 1-2 more on these 10.
We are paying 15 gpt to the Celts, and this obligation extends beyond my turns.
We have 2 settlers active, so I can get off to a fast start on founding cities. Now just have to find spots ...
Aydin swaps to Barracks, due next turn. Need another troop producer.
IT - Dobrich (Bulgar) founded in a position to compete for Horses.
978 AD (1)
Major problem: Barb Camp on the way to the Spices spawns about 5 Keshiks. Settler founds in place (Ankara) and starts worker. Even better, the Keshiks still threaten our workers. We are also starting to get infringed upon from the North. Rush Settler in Edrine for 56 of our 61 gold.
981 AD (2)
Bringing King back from West. Byz get in the way of our workers again. Rushed settler heads for SE, slowly. Keshiks take 5 bucks.
IT - Just about have time to make a sandwich.
984 AD (3)
Nothing exciting happens.
987 AD (4)
Found Salonika, NW of Konya.
990 AD (5)
The English (at least) have MapMaking.
993 AD (6)
Moving folks into position. Three settlers are heading for the SE. Hope we beat the Arabs to spots. Spots are being taken (by others) on our northern front. I think we may be done settling after these turns.
996 AD (7)
Found Mugla (in the core), auto-dispersing a barb camp for 25 gold. Keep on truckin' SE, spread out workers to block some of the settler pairs until we get our spots.
OK, Map Making is out there, let's see what is available.
For our WM, Thea give Fatimid contact + 40 gold
Poland doesn't have MM.
Abbasids don't have MM
Denmark offers TM, Fatimid contact, + 30 gold. (or Seafaring)
Bulgars have 3 workers for sale, but not MM
Rus don't have MM, but Iron + 11 gpt would get Castle Building.
Magyars don't have MM
Germany doesn't have MM
France doesn't have MM
England offers same deal as Denmark (or WM + 10 gpt for Castle Building)
Norway doesn't have MM, but we can get Seafaring for 6 gpt.
Sweden doesn't have MM
Burgundy offers Fatimid Contact, TM, + 20 gold.
Celts don't have MM
Castile doesn't have MM
I'll hold off for another couple of turns to see if anyone else gets MM. We will only get 1 shot to trade our Map, so I'd like to be able to trade it 10-12 times, not 5-6. (Famous last words?)
999 AD (8)
Well, after all the delays, the Byz are going to poach the Spices. Can't beat them to the spot, and can't blockade them. If that barb camp hadn't popped, we would have had all the sites by now.
1002 AD (9)
Found Denzili ahead of the Byz, claiming Iron in the SE. Now in a race for the last two spots down that way, to claim another Horse and Tar.
1005 AD (10)
OK, we can't beat the Byz to the Horses/Tar spot, so peel back to take some filler spots.
Final notes:
There are 4 settlers active. One in the SE should go for the plains adjacent to the fish. One is on a hill that can pull two forests without a border expansion. I think that is the right spot, but Caesar should look it over before founding. One is in Mugla, and should fill out our core. Going 3 tiles SE of Mugla should make every tile in our core accessible. The fourth settler can fill in somewhere. If we so choose, we can build another couple of settlers to found on plains-heavy spots to complete our empire. It may actually be beneficial to allow other civs to found those cities, so we can do some pointy-stick research.
Patzinak is on a Settler, but that is vetoable. If it builds a Granary, it can be a 2-turn worker farm for the rest of the game, relieving our other cities of that burden. We can now start to build up a military and choose a victim. We'll have at least 22 cities when we are done settling, and many far-away civs have outposts in our territory. We are in desperate need of a leader to jump the Palace to the middle of our empire. I think we need that more than an army.
I did not make any trades on this round, but since we now have a 2nd Iron, we can trade Iron + 9gpt to Kiev for Castle Building and not hamstring our war preparations. Seafaring is available for ~100 gold, but the game refuses to allow me to sell it to Kiev, even though they have the Viking entry tech. We can trade our WM, but I was waiting until more civs had MM, so we could trade it more often on a single turn. After the initial trade, I have to figure it will become common knowledge amongst the AI. Code of Laws would be very useful for Courthouses, then we could head for Jihad and Assassination (Sipahi!). [I mean buy CoL as a priority. We can't spend the time to research it. Might be a nice pointy-stick goal.]
On the subject of pointy-stick; anyone other than the Byz, Kiev, and Magyars are fairly easy pickings. Poland has two cities near us, and will never be able to reach us before they will take peace. The Germans have one city near us, and I think a couple of Settler pairs.
Unfortunately, many of the workers are scattered, as I was using them to impede settler-pair progress through our territory. I don't believe we have to do that any longer.
I was 1 gold short of being able to rush the Temple in Ferrouz. That is the quickest way to get Horses online, and Caesar can do that on his first turn if he so desires. Caesar should also review the build orders, as I was still in "expansion" mode, and we are now in consolidate and
mode.
Soon time to Gobble-Gobble other empires
975 AD (0)
Re-reading Jack's log. Have to see the situation on the ground. Good, lots of settlers coming online. I'll hold off on rushing any soon, but I'll need 3 to go down to the SE, and a bunch more to flesh out our core. We currently have 5 in production, and I can probably get 1-2 more on these 10.
We are paying 15 gpt to the Celts, and this obligation extends beyond my turns.
We have 2 settlers active, so I can get off to a fast start on founding cities. Now just have to find spots ...
Aydin swaps to Barracks, due next turn. Need another troop producer.
IT - Dobrich (Bulgar) founded in a position to compete for Horses.
978 AD (1)
Major problem: Barb Camp on the way to the Spices spawns about 5 Keshiks. Settler founds in place (Ankara) and starts worker. Even better, the Keshiks still threaten our workers. We are also starting to get infringed upon from the North. Rush Settler in Edrine for 56 of our 61 gold.
981 AD (2)
Bringing King back from West. Byz get in the way of our workers again. Rushed settler heads for SE, slowly. Keshiks take 5 bucks.
IT - Just about have time to make a sandwich.
984 AD (3)
Nothing exciting happens.
987 AD (4)
Found Salonika, NW of Konya.
990 AD (5)
The English (at least) have MapMaking.
993 AD (6)
Moving folks into position. Three settlers are heading for the SE. Hope we beat the Arabs to spots. Spots are being taken (by others) on our northern front. I think we may be done settling after these turns.
996 AD (7)
Found Mugla (in the core), auto-dispersing a barb camp for 25 gold. Keep on truckin' SE, spread out workers to block some of the settler pairs until we get our spots.
OK, Map Making is out there, let's see what is available.
For our WM, Thea give Fatimid contact + 40 gold
Poland doesn't have MM.
Abbasids don't have MM
Denmark offers TM, Fatimid contact, + 30 gold. (or Seafaring)
Bulgars have 3 workers for sale, but not MM
Rus don't have MM, but Iron + 11 gpt would get Castle Building.
Magyars don't have MM
Germany doesn't have MM
France doesn't have MM
England offers same deal as Denmark (or WM + 10 gpt for Castle Building)
Norway doesn't have MM, but we can get Seafaring for 6 gpt.
Sweden doesn't have MM
Burgundy offers Fatimid Contact, TM, + 20 gold.
Celts don't have MM
Castile doesn't have MM
I'll hold off for another couple of turns to see if anyone else gets MM. We will only get 1 shot to trade our Map, so I'd like to be able to trade it 10-12 times, not 5-6. (Famous last words?)
999 AD (8)
Well, after all the delays, the Byz are going to poach the Spices. Can't beat them to the spot, and can't blockade them. If that barb camp hadn't popped, we would have had all the sites by now.
1002 AD (9)
Found Denzili ahead of the Byz, claiming Iron in the SE. Now in a race for the last two spots down that way, to claim another Horse and Tar.
1005 AD (10)
OK, we can't beat the Byz to the Horses/Tar spot, so peel back to take some filler spots.
Final notes:
There are 4 settlers active. One in the SE should go for the plains adjacent to the fish. One is on a hill that can pull two forests without a border expansion. I think that is the right spot, but Caesar should look it over before founding. One is in Mugla, and should fill out our core. Going 3 tiles SE of Mugla should make every tile in our core accessible. The fourth settler can fill in somewhere. If we so choose, we can build another couple of settlers to found on plains-heavy spots to complete our empire. It may actually be beneficial to allow other civs to found those cities, so we can do some pointy-stick research.
Patzinak is on a Settler, but that is vetoable. If it builds a Granary, it can be a 2-turn worker farm for the rest of the game, relieving our other cities of that burden. We can now start to build up a military and choose a victim. We'll have at least 22 cities when we are done settling, and many far-away civs have outposts in our territory. We are in desperate need of a leader to jump the Palace to the middle of our empire. I think we need that more than an army.
I did not make any trades on this round, but since we now have a 2nd Iron, we can trade Iron + 9gpt to Kiev for Castle Building and not hamstring our war preparations. Seafaring is available for ~100 gold, but the game refuses to allow me to sell it to Kiev, even though they have the Viking entry tech. We can trade our WM, but I was waiting until more civs had MM, so we could trade it more often on a single turn. After the initial trade, I have to figure it will become common knowledge amongst the AI. Code of Laws would be very useful for Courthouses, then we could head for Jihad and Assassination (Sipahi!). [I mean buy CoL as a priority. We can't spend the time to research it. Might be a nice pointy-stick goal.]
On the subject of pointy-stick; anyone other than the Byz, Kiev, and Magyars are fairly easy pickings. Poland has two cities near us, and will never be able to reach us before they will take peace. The Germans have one city near us, and I think a couple of Settler pairs.
Unfortunately, many of the workers are scattered, as I was using them to impede settler-pair progress through our territory. I don't believe we have to do that any longer.
I was 1 gold short of being able to rush the Temple in Ferrouz. That is the quickest way to get Horses online, and Caesar can do that on his first turn if he so desires. Caesar should also review the build orders, as I was still in "expansion" mode, and we are now in consolidate and
mode.Soon time to Gobble-Gobble other empires
Caesar_Augustus
in vino veritas
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Messages
- 176
Good turns McClure. Tough break on the Spices and those damn Keshiks.
We don't have contact with the Fatimids??? I had a horse next to Alexandria heading towards them and the Cordovans at the end of my turns - someone must have turned him around for some barb killin'
@jack: IMO it's not an exploit to leave towns empty for ravenous Keshiks to plunder. Imagine the damage they would do if we didn't
@the group: Any suggestions for a future capital site? Who knows when we'll get our first leader, but never too early to decide where to move the Palace. I'll have to take a look at the save before I offer my thoughts.
Pointy stick research seems like a good way to get the 'required' techs. However, I think we'll have to self-research most of the Arab ones - the Abbasids are the only Arab civ close by, and they're a little too big to pick on until we get Sipahi IMO.
The Swedes in the far north could be a way to pointy stick some of the Vike techs, but they're a little too far north for us to mount an effective assault against.
I'll have more thoughts after I look at the save tomorrow. I'll probably play tomorrow night
EDIT: Strange idea I just had: Maybe we could sneak a settler up to the Baltic coast, found a junk city, and rush a Curragh to make contact with the other Vike civs, as well as the English, Celts, Castillans, and Cordovans. At the least it would significantly lower the price for the Vike techs. What do you think?
We don't have contact with the Fatimids??? I had a horse next to Alexandria heading towards them and the Cordovans at the end of my turns - someone must have turned him around for some barb killin'
@jack: IMO it's not an exploit to leave towns empty for ravenous Keshiks to plunder. Imagine the damage they would do if we didn't
@the group: Any suggestions for a future capital site? Who knows when we'll get our first leader, but never too early to decide where to move the Palace. I'll have to take a look at the save before I offer my thoughts.
Pointy stick research seems like a good way to get the 'required' techs. However, I think we'll have to self-research most of the Arab ones - the Abbasids are the only Arab civ close by, and they're a little too big to pick on until we get Sipahi IMO.
The Swedes in the far north could be a way to pointy stick some of the Vike techs, but they're a little too far north for us to mount an effective assault against.
I'll have more thoughts after I look at the save tomorrow. I'll probably play tomorrow night
EDIT: Strange idea I just had: Maybe we could sneak a settler up to the Baltic coast, found a junk city, and rush a Curragh to make contact with the other Vike civs, as well as the English, Celts, Castillans, and Cordovans. At the least it would significantly lower the price for the Vike techs. What do you think?
There was no horse in Africa when I started my turns. (Unless it was fortified. 
)
We have contact with all the Viking civs. The only two we are lacking are Cordova and the Fatimids, and we'll get those when we trade our WM.
When you open the game you'll see that our options for pointy-stick are essentially Poland and Germany. We can snag two Polish cities before troops from their core can reach us, so that is rather simple. After that we probably have to exploit alliances until we get Sipahi. The Bulgars are also an option. The Magyars, Byz, and Rus are not good choices for us right now, as they can hit us harder than we can hit them.
The Palace should probably go 1 ring west and maybe a little north. Can't remember what city that would be. I don't think we want to make Ghuzz a 2nd ring city yet.
)We have contact with all the Viking civs. The only two we are lacking are Cordova and the Fatimids, and we'll get those when we trade our WM.
When you open the game you'll see that our options for pointy-stick are essentially Poland and Germany. We can snag two Polish cities before troops from their core can reach us, so that is rather simple. After that we probably have to exploit alliances until we get Sipahi. The Bulgars are also an option. The Magyars, Byz, and Rus are not good choices for us right now, as they can hit us harder than we can hit them.
The Palace should probably go 1 ring west and maybe a little north. Can't remember what city that would be. I don't think we want to make Ghuzz a 2nd ring city yet.
jack merchant
Internationalist
Good choice to hold off on the MM trade 
I also didn't see a horse in North Africa - maybe a Keshik got it ?
Iznik seems the way to go for the Palace - that'd leave Ghuzz first or second-ring depending on whether we found a filler city in between. We may want to focus a few workers on our future palace site though so it provides a direct boost if/when we can move it.
Agree on the research path and the preferred way to get there - we'll probably want to have horses mainly for our army ? We can at best upgrade some vet warriors to swords, but they'l have to do a lot of walking.
I also didn't see a horse in North Africa - maybe a Keshik got it ? Iznik seems the way to go for the Palace - that'd leave Ghuzz first or second-ring depending on whether we found a filler city in between. We may want to focus a few workers on our future palace site though so it provides a direct boost if/when we can move it.
Agree on the research path and the preferred way to get there - we'll probably want to have horses mainly for our army ? We can at best upgrade some vet warriors to swords, but they'l have to do a lot of walking
.I'd say Iznik is the best choice for a new capital as well. It is almost exactly in the center of our empire, so should be able to get us a nice reduction in corruption.
We should have a few Swords in our army, then once the Horses come on-line swap over to almost entirely Horsemen. Our initial wars (Poland?, Bulgars?) don't require a lot of walking. Those wars are not just for pointy-stick, they help add productive cities.
We are not ready for a war just yet, almost half of our "army" is still settlers and workers. The next 10 should see a real shift in our unit distribution. Even if cities can only build 1-2 units in 10 turns, we'll put about 30 troops online in that span.
We're not in bad shape, but are way behind the power curve. We are already 8th in land area, and that will only go up. I think it might be wise to always have a settler or two handy, in case other civs get eliminated and city spots open up near us.
We should have a few Swords in our army, then once the Horses come on-line swap over to almost entirely Horsemen. Our initial wars (Poland?, Bulgars?) don't require a lot of walking. Those wars are not just for pointy-stick, they help add productive cities.
We are not ready for a war just yet, almost half of our "army" is still settlers and workers. The next 10 should see a real shift in our unit distribution. Even if cities can only build 1-2 units in 10 turns, we'll put about 30 troops online in that span.
We're not in bad shape, but are way behind the power curve. We are already 8th in land area, and that will only go up. I think it might be wise to always have a settler or two handy, in case other civs get eliminated and city spots open up near us.
Caesar_Augustus
in vino veritas
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Messages
- 176
I swing the CB trade for Iron and 9gpt. Almost all of the other civs have Code of Laws, and the Abbasids have Jihad as well. While I don't like letting our closest neighbour have Iron for 20 turns, we need to catch up in tech. Corruption in Patzinak is horrible - it only has 2 uncorrupted shields a turn. Switch it to Granary regardless.
IT: Izmit riots. Watch 1,034,567 settler pairs move. Ankara Worker-Temple. English are building Domesday Book - jeez that's some fast Town Hall builds on their part!
1008 AD (1) (55/204 in game): No river movement penalty is really nice. I move a settler North of Ghuzz to settle a city along a river. Found Bolu in the South. I cash rush the Temple in Ferrouz - thought about buying Seafaring for 120g, but decided against it.
Remember how I mentioned that Tar was worthless since it only enables Dromons, a unit we can't build? Well, there's one civ in this game that would very much love to have Tar:
Unless they go to war with the Bulgars (or us ) they won't be getting their own Tar anytime soon. So it looks like we've found our non-Arab tech trading partner
The Fatimids don't have Code of Laws! But unfortunately, they don't have Jihad either so no trade opportunity there. Also all of the Vike civs have CoL, so no opportunity to swing Seafaring. The Germans, English, Danes, and Burgundians are all up Mapmaking. Abbasids are up Jihad. We're at parity with pretty much everyone else, and up CoL on the Cordovans, Fatimids, and Celts.
IT: Byz settle near the Spices. We could aggresively settle next to them and start a culture war for them, but A) they have the gold to rush culture and we don't B) I don't want to anger our sweetiepie Theodora. Ferrouz Temple-Spear.
1011 AD (2): I delay hooking up our 2nd iron, since we're not in a position to be building swords or smithies yet. There are 3 workers in the vicinity to do it though.
#$)(&%#@!, looks like the Byz can get Tar sooner than later
Must . . . fight . . . evil urge . . . to attack . . . . with warrior . . .
We might not be screwed just yet - a dipo check reveals that the Byz don't have spices, so their trade network doesn't link up through the Abbasids. We'll have to make sure not to help them by roading near that city, and also maybe block their workers with our units to prevent a linkup. If we can stop them for another 20 turns, we can swing at least one more Tar for Tech deal.
Our King is still stuck in Bulgaria. Maybe they'll be a buddy and kick him out for us.
Fatimids sill down CoL but no Jihad yet. I'm hedging that they'll go for Jihad first, since it enables their unique unit, the Ansar Warrior. And our 15gpt to the Celts expires next turn, giving us some money to play with.
I switch Patzinak to a Town Hall, since it's losing 4 shields and 6 commerce to corruption.
IT: Our buddies boot our King.
1014 AD (3): Found Urfa in our core, as well as Bingol on the Caspian. Mapmaking is available for everything we have (WM/62g/36gpt) but I decline, hoping to eventually swing Jihad from the Fatimids for Gold + CoL. Actually . . . we could get MM and then trade it for Seafaring + Jihad . . . This move would make sense, since all of the other civs are likely researching MM. Plus we can then broker contacts and WMs to the world. Let's see what I can do:
-I trade WM + 42g + 32gpt to the English for Mapmaking. Why the English? The Germans are the VP leader and are the closest to us, plus the English are the furthest and on their island and the AI has trouble organizing sea invasions, so they're the least likely to be a factor of the 'major' powers.
-Abbasids won't budge on Jihad! Ah well.
-MM to the Norwegians for Seafaring + 20g + WM. Norway's weak, and this gets us a sorely needed WM. Danes and Swedes have Smithing.
-WM to the Rus for 1g + WM. Their added map info will help us suck more $$$ away from the rich countries, as well as lower the price for Smithing (and hopefully Jihad).
-WM to the French for WM. Same reason as above, now all of Central Europe is revealed.
-WM to the Cordovans for WM + 26g. Iberia is revealed.
-TM to the Poles for WM.
-WM to the Swedes for Smithing + WM + 30g. Forget the Danes
-TM to the Magyars for WM + 2g.
-WM to the Bulgars for WM + 6g + 3 workers.
I save the game at this point, as I'm afraid I'll accidentally hit Enter and ruin all of work.
-WM to the Fatimids for WM + 29g. Africa is revealed.
-WM to the English for 71g + WM. That scored us an old, but still useful, Abbasid WM as well.
-WM to the Byz for 211g + WM. That wasn't all of their gold, but at least now we know what our WM is worth.
-WM to the Danes for 211g + WM.
-WM to the Burgundians for 118g + 5gpt + WM.
Get this: For fun I offer the Abbasids our WM (worth 211g) + 627g + 4gpt + NINE CONTACTS + Mapmaking - and all I get is 'I doubt they'll accept this proposal.' That Jihad is one expensive tech at monopoly! They only have 18g so I don't trade them our WM - maybe we'll get a trade opportunity for it later down the road.
Regardless, that was quite the exhausting trading round! We spent 42g and 36gpt (762g total) to get 725g + 5gpt + 3 workers + Seafaring + Smithing + an almost complete WM. Here's our world (note the aggressive Byzantine settling):
I rush a Town Hall in Patzinak for 132g, but that's it for now. If a big stack of Keshiks appear somewhere, then I'll spend the rest, but I want to save it for future trades or emergencies.
IT: Settler stampede! Ghuzz Spear-Library (as a pre-build for a smithie, since we need to hook up that Iron). Spatz TH-Granary. Salonika Worker-Warrior.
1017 AD (4): Still no dice on Jihad. Move workers onto Iron.
IT: Khazar Barracks-Horseman.
1020 AD (5): Not much happening.
1023 AD (6): Destroy a barb camp for 25g.
1026 AD (7): Iron comes online and I switch Ghuzz over to a Smithie. Most of our workers are doubled up, working up a sweat on the ground (I mean they're working it in pairs . . . I mean they're like two workers merged into one . . . errmm you get the idea ). Found Riza up north, dispersing a barb hut which had appeared on the interturn. Oh well, there goes some gold next turn when its warrior plunders Riza. Our exploring King finally arrives in Izmit, and takes up MP duty.
Do another round of Map trading, netting about 220g (the French gave 154g). Abbasids offer Dyes + WM + 5g for our WM, which means they still don't have the complete map. However I'm still holding out hope for a tech trade.
A right-click reveals something interesting:
The Swordsman's name is in red, which means he is carrying a relic! The French are marching the Crown of Thorns right through our territory! Should we capture it? We have two horsemen (one elite) that could hit them next turn. The French are too far away to mount an effective counter-attack. VPs don't matter to us since we're going for domination, but it would be nice to deny a relic to the other civs.
Since I have to break for supper and other things right now anyway, I'm going to post this partial turnlog. I'll finish the rest of my turns later tonight, or maybe even tomorrow morning. In the meantime, please offer your thoughts on what we should do about the relic (as well as any other strat talk).
IT: Izmit riots. Watch 1,034,567 settler pairs move. Ankara Worker-Temple. English are building Domesday Book - jeez that's some fast Town Hall builds on their part!
1008 AD (1) (55/204 in game): No river movement penalty is really nice. I move a settler North of Ghuzz to settle a city along a river. Found Bolu in the South. I cash rush the Temple in Ferrouz - thought about buying Seafaring for 120g, but decided against it.
Remember how I mentioned that Tar was worthless since it only enables Dromons, a unit we can't build? Well, there's one civ in this game that would very much love to have Tar:
Unless they go to war with the Bulgars (or us
) they won't be getting their own Tar anytime soon. So it looks like we've found our non-Arab tech trading partner The Fatimids don't have Code of Laws! But unfortunately, they don't have Jihad either so no trade opportunity there
. Also all of the Vike civs have CoL, so no opportunity to swing Seafaring. The Germans, English, Danes, and Burgundians are all up Mapmaking. Abbasids are up Jihad. We're at parity with pretty much everyone else, and up CoL on the Cordovans, Fatimids, and Celts.IT: Byz settle near the Spices. We could aggresively settle next to them and start a culture war for them, but A) they have the gold to rush culture and we don't B) I don't want to anger our sweetiepie Theodora. Ferrouz Temple-Spear.
1011 AD (2): I delay hooking up our 2nd iron, since we're not in a position to be building swords or smithies yet. There are 3 workers in the vicinity to do it though.
#$)(&%#@!, looks like the Byz can get Tar sooner than later
Must . . . fight . . . evil urge . . . to attack . . . . with warrior . . .
We might not be screwed just yet - a dipo check reveals that the Byz don't have spices, so their trade network doesn't link up through the Abbasids. We'll have to make sure not to help them by roading near that city, and also maybe block their workers with our units to prevent a linkup. If we can stop them for another 20 turns, we can swing at least one more Tar for Tech deal.
Our King is still stuck in Bulgaria. Maybe they'll be a buddy and kick him out for us.
Fatimids sill down CoL but no Jihad yet. I'm hedging that they'll go for Jihad first, since it enables their unique unit, the Ansar Warrior. And our 15gpt to the Celts expires next turn, giving us some money to play with.
I switch Patzinak to a Town Hall, since it's losing 4 shields and 6 commerce to corruption.
IT: Our buddies boot our King.
1014 AD (3): Found Urfa in our core, as well as Bingol on the Caspian. Mapmaking is available for everything we have (WM/62g/36gpt) but I decline, hoping to eventually swing Jihad from the Fatimids for Gold + CoL. Actually . . . we could get MM and then trade it for Seafaring + Jihad . . . This move would make sense, since all of the other civs are likely researching MM. Plus we can then broker contacts and WMs to the world. Let's see what I can do:
-I trade WM + 42g + 32gpt to the English for Mapmaking. Why the English? The Germans are the VP leader and are the closest to us, plus the English are the furthest and on their island and the AI has trouble organizing sea invasions, so they're the least likely to be a factor of the 'major' powers.
-Abbasids won't budge on Jihad! Ah well.
-MM to the Norwegians for Seafaring + 20g + WM. Norway's weak, and this gets us a sorely needed WM. Danes and Swedes have Smithing.
-WM to the Rus for 1g + WM. Their added map info will help us suck more $$$ away from the rich countries, as well as lower the price for Smithing (and hopefully Jihad).
-WM to the French for WM. Same reason as above, now all of Central Europe is revealed.
-WM to the Cordovans for WM + 26g. Iberia is revealed.
-TM to the Poles for WM.
-WM to the Swedes for Smithing + WM + 30g. Forget the Danes
-TM to the Magyars for WM + 2g.
-WM to the Bulgars for WM + 6g + 3 workers.
I save the game at this point, as I'm afraid I'll accidentally hit Enter and ruin all of work.
-WM to the Fatimids for WM + 29g. Africa is revealed.
-WM to the English for 71g + WM. That scored us an old, but still useful, Abbasid WM as well.
-WM to the Byz for 211g + WM. That wasn't all of their gold, but at least now we know what our WM is worth.
-WM to the Danes for 211g + WM.
-WM to the Burgundians for 118g + 5gpt + WM.
Get this: For fun I offer the Abbasids our WM (worth 211g) + 627g + 4gpt + NINE CONTACTS + Mapmaking - and all I get is 'I doubt they'll accept this proposal.' That Jihad is one expensive tech at monopoly! They only have 18g so I don't trade them our WM - maybe we'll get a trade opportunity for it later down the road.
Regardless, that was quite the exhausting trading round! We spent 42g and 36gpt (762g total) to get 725g + 5gpt + 3 workers + Seafaring + Smithing + an almost complete WM. Here's our world (note the aggressive Byzantine settling):
I rush a Town Hall in Patzinak for 132g, but that's it for now. If a big stack of Keshiks appear somewhere, then I'll spend the rest, but I want to save it for future trades or emergencies.
IT: Settler stampede! Ghuzz Spear-Library (as a pre-build for a smithie, since we need to hook up that Iron). Spatz TH-Granary. Salonika Worker-Warrior.
1017 AD (4): Still no dice on Jihad. Move workers onto Iron.
IT: Khazar Barracks-Horseman.
1020 AD (5): Not much happening.
1023 AD (6): Destroy a barb camp for 25g.
1026 AD (7): Iron comes online and I switch Ghuzz over to a Smithie. Most of our workers are doubled up, working up a sweat on the ground (I mean they're working it in pairs . . . I mean they're like two workers merged into one . . . errmm you get the idea
). Found Riza up north, dispersing a barb hut which had appeared on the interturn. Oh well, there goes some gold next turn when its warrior plunders Riza. Our exploring King finally arrives in Izmit, and takes up MP duty.Do another round of Map trading, netting about 220g (the French gave 154g). Abbasids offer Dyes + WM + 5g for our WM, which means they still don't have the complete map. However I'm still holding out hope for a tech trade.
A right-click reveals something interesting:
The Swordsman's name is in red, which means he is carrying a relic! The French are marching the Crown of Thorns right through our territory! Should we capture it? We have two horsemen (one elite) that could hit them next turn. The French are too far away to mount an effective counter-attack. VPs don't matter to us since we're going for domination, but it would be nice to deny a relic to the other civs.
Since I have to break for supper and other things right now anyway, I'm going to post this partial turnlog. I'll finish the rest of my turns later tonight, or maybe even tomorrow morning. In the meantime, please offer your thoughts on what we should do about the relic (as well as any other strat talk).
Aggie
Deity
II say catpure that relic! Great write up by the way.
Great write up by the way.
jack merchant
Internationalist
I did in fact mention that the Byzantines would probably pay good money for tar but that's some pretty excellent work and trading there, Caesar Augustus !
I actually don't know whether we even can grab the relic - I played this scenario as the Cordovans and if I remember correctly the relic was destroyed when I tried to take it. It would be a bit silly for the Muslim civs to gain points through a Christian crusade !
No reason not to try though.
but that's some pretty excellent work and trading there, Caesar Augustus !I actually don't know whether we even can grab the relic - I played this scenario as the Cordovans and if I remember correctly the relic was destroyed when I tried to take it. It would be a bit silly for the Muslim civs to gain points through a Christian crusade !
No reason not to try though
.Terrific write-up!
I thought it was wise not to trade maps at the first opportunity, and I concur we will get one more shot to trade Tar to Thea.
We can trade contacts now, so we should probably try to make any cash we can that way. Helps to rush Barracks/Town Halls.
I'm rather disappointed that all of our neighbors seem to have gone ape on settling. The Rus got way too large for comfort. However, it looks like there are 3-4 more sites we can settle to "round-out" our empire. Mostly plains IIRC, but more unit support and taxes.
First, check to see what France has. If they have a lot of money or tech, they could buy allies. Since I suspect they have neither, whack the settler pair and see what happens. Worst-case, we get a couple of slaves and a little cash when they'll talk to us. Best case, we get to jump our Palace and make it extremely difficult for another civ to win by returning relics. What is the AI thinking?
Having the full WM also makes it easier to choose victims. Can Poland give us anything for peace? I mean besides those two semi-core cities we'll take from them.
Also, if you didn't already know, trading for an AI WM should reveal the locations of the barb camps. We should be able to make a couple of bucks by brokering the WM around every few turns. Any hope of establishing some embassies to try to keep track of the inevitable wars?
I thought it was wise not to trade maps at the first opportunity, and I concur we will get one more shot to trade Tar to Thea.
We can trade contacts now, so we should probably try to make any cash we can that way. Helps to rush Barracks/Town Halls.
I'm rather disappointed that all of our neighbors seem to have gone ape on settling. The Rus got way too large for comfort. However, it looks like there are 3-4 more sites we can settle to "round-out" our empire. Mostly plains IIRC, but more unit support and taxes.
First, check to see what France has. If they have a lot of money or tech, they could buy allies. Since I suspect they have neither, whack the settler pair and see what happens. Worst-case, we get a couple of slaves and a little cash when they'll talk to us. Best case, we get to jump our Palace and make it extremely difficult for another civ to win by returning relics. What is the AI thinking?
Having the full WM also makes it easier to choose victims. Can Poland give us anything for peace? I mean besides those two semi-core cities we'll take from them.
Also, if you didn't already know, trading for an AI WM should reveal the locations of the barb camps. We should be able to make a couple of bucks by brokering the WM around every few turns. Any hope of establishing some embassies to try to keep track of the inevitable wars?
Caesar_Augustus
in vino veritas
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Messages
- 176
IT: The French relic bearers don't move behind a river - thank you Joan! We lose 80g to ransacking barbs. Salon Barracks-Spear. The Poles COMPLETE the Holy Roman Empire!
1029 AD (8): The French have 6 gold, no Iron, and are down MapMaking. I think they're safe to attack. Just to be a real ass, I take a gold piece for our WM from Joan. A few of the superpower civs have Early Siegecraft. The Poles don't, which means they must have taken the Christian tech tree up to Crusaders and Knights. BTW, they do have horses and Iron.
Siegecraft could be ours for around 780g. However, the Abbasids still have Jihad at monopoly so I doubt we could get that after, and the only civ with $$$ is the Danes with around 200g. With no strong broker opportunities the trade isn't worth it ATM. Since we're doing it min sci it will slowly get a little cheaper as well. I trade Contact with the Bulgars to the Fatimids for WM + 5g. No new barb huts in the fog - looks like the settler tidal wave has pushed the Mongols out of Europe.
They don't call me the Sultan of 'Swing' for nothin'!
Alright, time to lay some smack down. I cancel peace with the French and attack with our Elite Horsemen, and WE POP A . . . relic. I move a King to capture it, just for style points
, but Kings don't have the capture option! Well that sucks. I hate missing out on style points! :saiyan:
I establish an embassy in Constantinople (will make it easier to arrange my weekend getaways with Theodora at the prestigious Welshley Arms). Their capital is defended by 7 spears, a sword, Theo (grrrowwwl), and a Dromon. It's at 15 shields per turn and is building a Dromon. They are 50% tax / 50% research. Embassy in Kiev reveals a 9spt town; 5 spears, a King, a Zerk; 60%/40%; Rax, Temple, Market. Embassy in Pest (Magyars) reveals a 11spt town defended by 7 spears, a King, a Sword; 60%/40%; Rax and Temple. Polish embassy reveals a 22spt city in a Golden Age! 6 spears, 5 swords, and a King. Rax, Temple, Market, and HRE. Building a Monastery. With that kind of production I think we should hold off on any war with the Poles for awhile - they'd slaughter us. German capital: 12spt (HRE due in 1 - tough luck there guys!); 7 spears, 1 sword, 1 King; Rax, Temple, Market; 70%/30%. We stop embassy building for awhile, and rush a Spear in Bursa and a Sword in Izmit, leaving us with 320g in the bank. Have to hire a couple of entertainers to prevent disorder. Move a horse to waste another French settler pair next turn.
IT: A Bulgar sword attacks and kills the French settler pair
! Cordova and Germany ally vs Burgundy. La Brea Sword-Temple. Bursa Spear-Spear. Izmit Sword-Temple. Mugla Spear-Granary. English switch from HRE and build the Domesday Book before the Germans can .
1032 AD (9): The French have a city north of us, Tours, so I send a couple of Horses north. However there are a few Bulgar cities nearby, so Tours may be gone by the time we get there. I move a Spear to seize the Relic, since I don't want our Elite horse to have it (a unit can't drop a relic unless it's killed).
Diplo check reveals that the Germans and Bulgars are at War, as well as the Byz and Bulgars. I trade our WM to practically every Civ for about 20g. Boring as heck, but if we do this every turn it nets us an extra +10-20gpt. Plus it's a good way to keep tabs on the tech situation. I build an embassy with the Bulgars - 13spt; 5 spears (one wounded, must be under siege), 1 king, 1 horse; Rax and Temple; 60%/40%. I wanted to see what we could get for an alliance vs the Franks, since they're already at war, but they're still down Mapmaking to us! Oh well.
IT: Well well well:
You know what? SCREW HIM. I tell him to shove it. This may be :weed: , but hear me out: A) He's pretty far away B) The War happiness will be a nice boost to our economy C) If worse comes to worse we can give the Rus Iron again in 11 more turns for an Alliance against them - it'll take at least that long for the Swede Zerks to get down to us. D) They might be bluffing anyway.
No bluff - the Swedes declare war on us. Castile declares War on the Bulgars. A barb warrior comes out of the fog, threatening a worker.
1035 AD (10): Our sultan surveys the relic pick-up:
Quick check reveals no Swede units near our territory. Do the tedious task of selling our WM to each civ for 1g, netting 24g (a few civs actually gave 4g apiece). I lower our lux tax to 10%, but have to hire a Taxman in Patzinak. A few other towns fire their specialists, and we're at +18gpt.
Notes for next ruler:
-There are two warriors in the Southeast, keeping watch over the Byzantine Tar town. I'd use them to block workers in case they try to link up to our road system, so we can trade them Tar in another 11 turns.
-Our deal with the Rus (our iron + 9gpt) runs out in 10 turns. Our 32gpt payment to the English runs out in 13.
-We have a reg horse a few turns from the French city of Tours in the north.
-We might want to make a few more settlers to increase unit support and $$$, and also to help with the domination limit.
-I just realized that I forgot to wake the worker north of Ghuzz that is threatened by a barb warrior
Our empire, turn 64/204:
Sultan of Swing
1029 AD (8): The French have 6 gold, no Iron, and are down MapMaking. I think they're safe to attack. Just to be a real ass, I take a gold piece for our WM from Joan. A few of the superpower civs have Early Siegecraft. The Poles don't, which means they must have taken the Christian tech tree up to Crusaders and Knights
. BTW, they do have horses and Iron.Siegecraft could be ours for around 780g. However, the Abbasids still have Jihad at monopoly so I doubt we could get that after, and the only civ with $$$ is the Danes with around 200g. With no strong broker opportunities the trade isn't worth it ATM. Since we're doing it min sci it will slowly get a little cheaper as well. I trade Contact with the Bulgars to the Fatimids for WM + 5g. No new barb huts in the fog - looks like the settler tidal wave has pushed the Mongols out of Europe.
They don't call me the Sultan of 'Swing' for nothin'!
Alright, time to lay some smack down. I cancel peace with the French and attack with our Elite Horsemen, and WE POP A . . . relic. I move a King to capture it, just for style points
, but Kings don't have the capture option! Well that sucks. I hate missing out on style points! :saiyan:I establish an embassy in Constantinople (will make it easier to arrange my weekend getaways with Theodora at the prestigious Welshley Arms). Their capital is defended by 7 spears, a sword, Theo (grrrowwwl), and a Dromon. It's at 15 shields per turn and is building a Dromon. They are 50% tax / 50% research. Embassy in Kiev reveals a 9spt town; 5 spears, a King, a Zerk; 60%/40%; Rax, Temple, Market. Embassy in Pest (Magyars) reveals a 11spt town defended by 7 spears, a King, a Sword; 60%/40%; Rax and Temple. Polish embassy reveals a 22spt city in a Golden Age! 6 spears, 5 swords, and a King. Rax, Temple, Market, and HRE. Building a Monastery. With that kind of production I think we should hold off on any war with the Poles for awhile - they'd slaughter us. German capital: 12spt (HRE due in 1 - tough luck there guys!); 7 spears, 1 sword, 1 King; Rax, Temple, Market; 70%/30%. We stop embassy building for awhile, and rush a Spear in Bursa and a Sword in Izmit, leaving us with 320g in the bank. Have to hire a couple of entertainers to prevent disorder. Move a horse to waste another French settler pair next turn.
IT: A Bulgar sword attacks and kills the French settler pair
! Cordova and Germany ally vs Burgundy. La Brea Sword-Temple. Bursa Spear-Spear. Izmit Sword-Temple. Mugla Spear-Granary. English switch from HRE and build the Domesday Book before the Germans can .1032 AD (9): The French have a city north of us, Tours, so I send a couple of Horses north. However there are a few Bulgar cities nearby, so Tours may be gone by the time we get there. I move a Spear to seize the Relic, since I don't want our Elite horse to have it (a unit can't drop a relic unless it's killed).
Diplo check reveals that the Germans and Bulgars are at War, as well as the Byz and Bulgars. I trade our WM to practically every Civ for about 20g
. Boring as heck, but if we do this every turn it nets us an extra +10-20gpt. Plus it's a good way to keep tabs on the tech situation. I build an embassy with the Bulgars - 13spt; 5 spears (one wounded, must be under siege), 1 king, 1 horse; Rax and Temple; 60%/40%. I wanted to see what we could get for an alliance vs the Franks, since they're already at war, but they're still down Mapmaking to us! Oh well.IT: Well well well:
You know what? SCREW HIM. I tell him to shove it. This may be :weed: , but hear me out: A) He's pretty far away B) The War happiness will be a nice boost to our economy C) If worse comes to worse we can give the Rus Iron again in 11 more turns for an Alliance against them - it'll take at least that long for the Swede Zerks to get down to us. D) They might be bluffing anyway.
No bluff - the Swedes declare war on us. Castile declares War on the Bulgars. A barb warrior comes out of the fog, threatening a worker.
1035 AD (10): Our sultan surveys the relic pick-up:
Quick check reveals no Swede units near our territory. Do the tedious task of selling our WM to each civ for 1g, netting 24g (a few civs actually gave 4g apiece). I lower our lux tax to 10%, but have to hire a Taxman in Patzinak. A few other towns fire their specialists, and we're at +18gpt.
Notes for next ruler:
-There are two warriors in the Southeast, keeping watch over the Byzantine Tar town. I'd use them to block workers in case they try to link up to our road system, so we can trade them Tar in another 11 turns.
-Our deal with the Rus (our iron + 9gpt) runs out in 10 turns. Our 32gpt payment to the English runs out in 13.
-We have a reg horse a few turns from the French city of Tours in the north.
-We might want to make a few more settlers to increase unit support and $$$, and also to help with the domination limit.
-I just realized that I forgot to wake the worker north of Ghuzz that is threatened by a barb warrior
Our empire, turn 64/204:
Sultan of Swing
Aggie
Deity
Got it. Good job Caesar_Augustus.
Aggie
Deity
We are not prepared (with 5 horses and 3 swords):
Here follows a write-up of nine turns. In the IT from turn 8 to 9 the game changed and I feel discussion is needed
IHT: Things are mostly looking fine. Our brave previous leader showed Europe that they shouldn't cross our lands without asking. What was that Frankish group doing, transporting a relic towards Jerusalem by a swords in comapny of a settler? Did they think they could land a relic this way?
IT: The Danes sign a MA with Byzantine to get rid of the Bulgars. Bolu: spear->temple. Urga: warrior->barracks.
Turn 1 (1038 AD) Not very interesting. I got some gold from map trading.
IT: The Bulgars want us to have us join them vs Castille. No way! A barbarian warrior steals 12 gold from the treasury after walking into empty Riza.
Turn 2 (1041 AD) We are close to Tours. With one horse. Still we'll see how we manage against this corrupted town next turn.
IT: What a sad sight, to see all those settlerpairs come back from the south after finding out there's no place to settle there. Bingol: warrior->temple. A Magyar settlerpair block our route to Tours. We can't attack next turn.
Turn 3 (1044 AD) Mapping selling
IT: Magyars and Danes sign a MA vs the...Bulgars.
Turn 4 (1047 AD) Our income jumped to 26 gpt. All that map selling allows us to rush the temple in Antalya (141 gold).
It needs to get culture to prevent it from being flipped.
Siege of Tours: our regular horse kills a regular spear and take one hit. But another spear is revealed.
IT: Poland and Denmark sign a MA vs Burgundy. Antalya: temple->barracks. Khazar: sword->settler.
Turn 5 (1050 AD)
IT: Cordova and Germany sign a MA against the Bulgars. How long before someone signs a MA vs us? A Frankish horse comes out of the fog and nears Ferrouz in the northwest. Ghuzz: blacksmith->horse. Aydin: horse->blacksmith.
Turn 6 (1053 AD) A sword deals with the horse close to Ferrouz, but doesn't promote. We are allowed to talk to the Franks again, who are broke. They are in doubt whether they will give up Tours. I decide that's not enough so say goodbye.
IT: Patzinak: temple->blacksmith. Konya, Riza: spear, warrior->temple.
Turn 7 (1056 AD) I sell Cordova Map Making for 100 gold and world map.
IT: And there it happens. The Danes join the Sweden. They both want to destroy us Ghuzz: horse->horse. Iznik: temple->blacksmith (vetoeble).
Turn 8 (1059 AD) The Danes are far away. Except for one city: Gudma. It is not only 5 tiles away from our empire, I saw a berserk roaming there last turn! Troops are sent to our northwest to protect the lands.
I decide to tretreat the two horsies close to Tous as well, and we spot two Danish settlerpairs!
IT: It is getting serious now! ur country is invaded and we haven't got the troops to defend ourselves!!!
We can switch our cities to troops, but it appears to me as we will surely say farewell to two cities.
You can see that the spear above our iron was in our land for at least a turn.
So why wasn't I warned? Well, there was a constant flow of troops through our lands. These guys decided to stay!
Note: we are NOT at war yet... It is only 90% sure that they are after us. They ARE at war with our neighbours the Bulgars.
1062 AD save
Here follows a write-up of nine turns. In the IT from turn 8 to 9 the game changed and I feel discussion is needed
IHT: Things are mostly looking fine. Our brave previous leader showed Europe that they shouldn't cross our lands without asking. What was that Frankish group doing, transporting a relic towards Jerusalem by a swords in comapny of a settler? Did they think they could land a relic this way?
IT: The Danes sign a MA with Byzantine to get rid of the Bulgars. Bolu: spear->temple. Urga: warrior->barracks.
Turn 1 (1038 AD) Not very interesting. I got some gold from map trading.
IT: The Bulgars want us to have us join them vs Castille. No way! A barbarian warrior steals 12 gold from the treasury after walking into empty Riza.
Turn 2 (1041 AD) We are close to Tours. With one horse. Still we'll see how we manage against this corrupted town next turn.
IT: What a sad sight, to see all those settlerpairs come back from the south after finding out there's no place to settle there. Bingol: warrior->temple. A Magyar settlerpair block our route to Tours. We can't attack next turn.
Turn 3 (1044 AD) Mapping selling
IT: Magyars and Danes sign a MA vs the...Bulgars.
Turn 4 (1047 AD) Our income jumped to 26 gpt. All that map selling allows us to rush the temple in Antalya (141 gold).
It needs to get culture to prevent it from being flipped.
Siege of Tours: our regular horse kills a regular spear and take one hit. But another spear is revealed.
IT: Poland and Denmark sign a MA vs Burgundy. Antalya: temple->barracks. Khazar: sword->settler.
Turn 5 (1050 AD)
IT: Cordova and Germany sign a MA against the Bulgars. How long before someone signs a MA vs us? A Frankish horse comes out of the fog and nears Ferrouz in the northwest. Ghuzz: blacksmith->horse. Aydin: horse->blacksmith.
Turn 6 (1053 AD) A sword deals with the horse close to Ferrouz, but doesn't promote. We are allowed to talk to the Franks again, who are broke. They are in doubt whether they will give up Tours. I decide that's not enough so say goodbye.
IT: Patzinak: temple->blacksmith. Konya, Riza: spear, warrior->temple.
Turn 7 (1056 AD) I sell Cordova Map Making for 100 gold and world map.
IT: And there it happens. The Danes join the Sweden. They both want to destroy us
Ghuzz: horse->horse. Iznik: temple->blacksmith (vetoeble).Turn 8 (1059 AD) The Danes are far away. Except for one city: Gudma. It is not only 5 tiles away from our empire, I saw a berserk roaming there last turn! Troops are sent to our northwest to protect the lands.
I decide to tretreat the two horsies close to Tous as well, and we spot two Danish settlerpairs!
IT:
It is getting serious now! ur country is invaded and we haven't got the troops to defend ourselves!!!We can switch our cities to troops, but it appears to me as we will surely say farewell to two cities.
You can see that the spear above our iron was in our land for at least a turn.
So why wasn't I warned? Well, there was a constant flow of troops through our lands. These guys decided to stay!
Note: we are NOT at war yet... It is only 90% sure that they are after us. They ARE at war with our neighbours the Bulgars.
1062 AD save
jack merchant
Internationalist
If they're at war with the Bulgars, they'll move sooner or later - hopefully the Bulgars will present them with a more suitable target soon. If they are after us, we'll lose our horses, our iron, our reputation and probably the game 
.
Nothing to do but pray, I guess.
.Nothing to do but pray, I guess
.I'm not entirely convinced they are going to attack us. The Magyars are at war with the Bulgars, so those troops may be marching back to defend the homeland. [Dobrich was a Bulgar city on my turns.] But it doesn't look promising.
If they are attacking, we are royally screwed. In the hands of a human player, that SoD wipes us out! Fall back and be prepared to surrender cities for peace. The only good news is that our productive cities are quite a bit east of where the threat is. Maybe the AI will be weedy enough to split the stack up and we can start to counter.
Early Seigecraft is out there to buy. Most who don't have it also don't have CoL, so it's not going to get much cheaper. Might be a good idea to buy from someone before our trade route to Kiev is cut. Also, if we buy from a civ close to Denmark/Sweden, we might get out of our gpt payments via a war declaration.
I believe the Iron deal with the Rus expires on your last turn.
I would also say either go after Tours now, or end the war with France. They have nothing to give us, but we don't need them buying any friends. Tours would only be useful to us for unit support anyway. Germany has a couple of cities we can capture/raze for a tech discount when we have sufficient troops.
I think we have to go hard after Jihad ourselves. All the other Arab civs have the tech, and we can't buy it with our current economy. The game likely thinks this is the tech that enables our UU. Best we can do is 11 turns @90% science.
If they are attacking, we are royally screwed. In the hands of a human player, that SoD wipes us out! Fall back and be prepared to surrender cities for peace. The only good news is that our productive cities are quite a bit east of where the threat is. Maybe the AI will be weedy enough to split the stack up and we can start to counter.
Early Seigecraft is out there to buy. Most who don't have it also don't have CoL, so it's not going to get much cheaper. Might be a good idea to buy from someone before our trade route to Kiev is cut. Also, if we buy from a civ close to Denmark/Sweden, we might get out of our gpt payments via a war declaration.
I believe the Iron deal with the Rus expires on your last turn.
I would also say either go after Tours now, or end the war with France. They have nothing to give us, but we don't need them buying any friends. Tours would only be useful to us for unit support anyway. Germany has a couple of cities we can capture/raze for a tech discount when we have sufficient troops.
I think we have to go hard after Jihad ourselves. All the other Arab civs have the tech, and we can't buy it with our current economy. The game likely thinks this is the tech that enables our UU. Best we can do is 11 turns @90% science.
Few other things:
If the Magyar don't attack, there are still 3-4 city sites we can settle. There is a fill-in site halfway between Anakara and Bingol, on the coast. There is a spot S-S-SE of Edrine, on a plains (or maybe just S-S). Going E-E from Anakara grabs two forests.
Patzinak is building a regular Horse. If we aren't running for our lives, that could also be a settler.
Be very leery of chopping forest. I am looking outside of Bolu. That tile is 2f/2s/1t now, after it is chopped and irrigated, it will be 2f/1s/1t. The 10 shields from the chop aren't worth it, IMO.
We can always use more workers.
If the Magyar don't attack, there are still 3-4 city sites we can settle. There is a fill-in site halfway between Anakara and Bingol, on the coast. There is a spot S-S-SE of Edrine, on a plains (or maybe just S-S). Going E-E from Anakara grabs two forests.
Patzinak is building a regular Horse. If we aren't running for our lives, that could also be a settler.
Be very leery of chopping forest. I am looking outside of Bolu. That tile is 2f/2s/1t now, after it is chopped and irrigated, it will be 2f/1s/1t. The 10 shields from the chop aren't worth it, IMO.
We can always use more workers.
Aggie
Deity
Forest gives two food? Woops...didn't notice that
Agreed on Patzinak, I somehow assumed that the city had barracks..
Agreed on Patzinak, I somehow assumed that the city had barracks..
