RBC9 - Hittite Charioteers

Sorry Charis, I see what you mean; just lost a Deity game despite Hoover (ok, 'Pelago, and I had the only river ;) ), despite catching up in Tech and taking a slight lead towards Flight, because Spain reached the 100k culture in the Industrial age - and with 28 Infantry in Madrid alone, there was absolutely no way to prevent it.

And I'm not against having an advantage from an intelligently placed FP, I just think now the AI at least gets some benefit from it.

Only this particular game is nothing to complain about ;)


Something completely different:

When you started this game, I got inspired from the settings, and tried the Hittites also.

My final verdict on the 3MC:
A 2/2/2 Horseman would be a good UU, but a wheeled 2/2/2 unit is mediocre, and not having Horseman really hurts - I had a stack of enemy Archers sitting on a Mountain next to a newly conquered city, and all I could do was defend...
 
While clutching his rabbit's foot and four leaf clover, crossing his fingers, saying a paryer, kissing the Blarney Stone, keeping the horse shoe pointing up, making a wish on a passing load of hay and a shooting star observed while consulting astrological charts, 6thGenTexan says, "Got it."
 
If you don't mind some more lurker advice, I think there may still be a way to slow down the Mongols and climb out of the deep hole...

Notice that the Mongols are at war with the two civ with which you have broken deals, the Arabs and Aztecs. Therefore, the Mongols should accept alliance proposals and per turn deals from you as if your reputation was clean. Perhaps you should:

1. Sell the Mongols embargos then alliances against the Aztecs and Arabs for whatever they will give you
2. Then sign an MPP with the Mongols for whatever they want.
3. Declare war on the Koreans and French :eek:
4. Sign Mongols to alliances vs. Korea and France thus completing a reverse dogpile on the Mongols.

This will kill all of the Mongols' luxury and gpt deals, while hopefully dealing them significant war weariness over time. Meanwhile the other civs would be able to trade amongst themselves, and begin to catch up to the Mongols in technology. If the Mongols sign peace with anyone, you could try to re-buy an alliance against them, or just wait for your MPP to kick in. Although this would put you at war with the rest of the world, it looks like you would be well insulated from any direct attack ;). Of course, the Mongols might just end up advancing on all fronts and winning by domination, but it looks like they are headed in that direction anyway :).
 
I am not sure where it went astray. Okay we had some bad luck with the granaries and barracks. We all may think twice about selling them in the future :). But I think the crux of it was when we paid the ransom the Mongols requested and they attacked the very next turn anyway.

Last time I checked that was beyond dastardly :eek:. I think I would've felt better if it were a straight sneak attack. We were buying 20 turns of much needed, get off my back, peace and the Mongol's took advantage.

The feel of this patch is different however. The LK60 game is also "ONLY" a demigod game and we are in a deep, although getting shallower, hole. But the fact is we are behind here and will have to pull a rather large rabbit out of a hat.

GL Texan !

Hotrod
 
The feel of this patch is different however

IMHO, the big deal with c3c in general is the incredible price of Feudalism. Exactly there is the hole on Demigod+, all AI Civs will trade it amongst themselves, but you need to reseach it, often 30+ turns.

@zwingli: While a war may detract the Mongols, 'War Weariness' and 'Happiness' are no issues - in Fascism...
 
The Mongols are already in Fascism? Maybe their tech pace will be slowing down a bit now without the trade bonus from representative gov'ts. I haven't heard any mension of TOE being constructed by anyone, so there still might be the possiblility of pulling off the grandfather of all scientific slingshots and winning by space race if the Mongols can be slowed down to the tech level of the other civs by a full dogpile (as described earlier).

As to how the Mongols became the monster runaway civ of this game I would speculate (sorry for continuing the off topic tangent :) ) that letting the already powerful Mongols capture Sun Szu and the Pyramids just before the hospital building era was like throwing gasoline on an inferno. Perhaps demolishing the two wonders before they were captured (abandon city) would have slowed down the Mongols technological dominance. I don't know if I could bring myself to destroy two of the best wonders, and certainly understand why it wasn't done :lol:.
 
that letting the already powerful Mongols capture Sun Szu and the Pyramids just before the hospital building era was like throwing gasoline on an inferno.

I wouldn't say that we let them doo anything. WE had 1 weak defender in most cities. Strict rules about moving movement 1 units to help defend and a very weak at the time "moveable" force by comparison. Our Knights vs. there cavs were no match. I tried to press on the Mongols to push for a peace deal before LETTING them take the Sun and the Pyramids but it was all for not.

We were over matched by the Mongol's and they took advantage.
 
MM to give more food to Ulaangom to grow while working more shields in Erdent, maxed pop until aqueduct. Slight adjustment in Alalah and Hattusas. Not sure why we are going for Industiralization when our trading partner Abu already has it. We should have researched Electricity or Medicine. We have the cash to buy it from him but not sure how Temujin whould like that. I'm holding out for some Anarchy created by this war to steal some techs. BTW we can buy salt from the Mongols for <700g. Maybe after the cathedrals are built.

1280AD-1 Hattusas rifleman-->rifleman Alalah cathedral-->rifleman We still have a galley? He heads to Erdenet. Abu now has Electricity. Buy Medicine from Joan for 1910g. I have to throw in 680g and WM to get Industrialization from Abu for Medicine. Start min on Corporation because it is required and Abu does not have it. He has all optional techs except sanitation and is up Electricity on the required. Now see that the Aztecs are in anarchy :p So much for a steal attempt. I didn't have enough for a safe steal anyway. Alalah and Hattusas start factories instead of riflemen. Notice Hubishna is lacking a granary so MM to get it before growth.

1285AD-2 Hattusha cathedral-->factory Erdenet courthouse-->aqueduct Drop tax to 10% and add a few specialists but do not affect production, slowed groth in size 11-12 towns. These policemen are saving a turn in each city. :goodjob:

1290AD-3 ....

IBT Chalco is no longer an Aztec colony.

1295AD-4 ....

IBT The French start the Theory of Evolution.

1300AD-5 Hubishna granary-->cathedral Short famine in Tyrana to shave a turn of the cathedral.

1305AD-6 Tarsus cathedral-->factory Tyrana cathedral-->factory My MM last turn left Emar unhappy and it riots. :mad:

1310AD-7 ...

1315AD-8 Hattusas factory-->coal plant (already making 52spt) Emar bank-->cathedral

1320AD-9 ....

IBT Joan offers Espionage for 1030. I'll save our money for something required. France Joins the Mongols against the Aztecs.

1325AD-10 Ulaangom marketplace-->granary

What does everyone think about building the military acadamy in Hattusas after completeing the coal plant. We can be building knights everywhere else while it produces an army or two. Buy salt from Temujin and upgrade to cavs. Or time the salt pruchase to end right after we complete the second army and go reclaim some of our land. :hammer:

Go prepare for revenge.....


Charis
Elvis
Dwip
6thGenTexan
hotrod <-- UP
Yom <-- On Deck
 
1320 AD (0): We're not dead yet but man are we behind. New Embassy with the Monogols and Arabs. Pay 225 for a ROP with the Monogols. If we are going to attack anyone we have to go through them. Pay 620 gold to the Monogols for salt. Immediately upgrade 20 knights to cavs.

1330 AD (1): I'm going to lay the :hammer: down on our good friends the Arabs. Move our SoD and attack Mecca. Basically looking to hurt him enough to extort a few techs from him and give us a shot. He has no horses so I don't fear a huge counter. Will move and declare next turn.

1335 AD (2): Hattusas builds a coal plant starts on a Military academy. Hattusha a factory starts a cav. Alalah a factory starts cav. We are average compared with the Arabs so they are it. Declare and attack, capturing Mecca with only 1 lose. It is a size 8 with 6 resistors :eek: My goal it to capture Bagdad and Kufah and see we techs we can get for peace.

IBNT: The Arab counter amounted to a single longbow that can't make it to the city of Mecca. France completed ToE.

1340 AD (3): Capture Kufah with 1 lose but our newest cav army was beat up pretty good by a reg rifle.

INBT: Mongols and France sign MPP.

1345 AD (4): Build a couple new cavs. Our forces needs some help and healing. Rush a barracks in Mecca. Kill a rifle and 2 longbows that approached Kufah producing a Miltary Great leader. Sending him how as we can't have another army just yet.

INBT: OMFG! The Mongols are building HOOVER DAM.

1350 AD (5): Mecca completed a barracks and we have a nice healthy stack to go at Baghdad. Take out another mini stack losing 2 cavs. Armies are poised to strike next turn. Short rush a cav in Alaha. Buy dyes from Joanie for 145 gold and WM. Should've done that sooner :spank:

1355 AD (6): Easily capture Bagdad using our 2 armies. Arabs will now talk peace but won't give anything up so we must press on.

1360 AD (7): Lose 2 cavs attacking a rifle stack. Form up a new army now that we have enough cities.

1365 AD (8): Complete the Military Academy. Start on the Pentagon. Darn! Kufah flips taking 4 cavs with it. Short Rush 2 cavs via worker/longbows. Rush a temple in Mecca.

1370 AD (9): Push on an capture Khurasan.

1375 AD (10): Bagdad flips :eek: losing 4 more cavs and our gems causing a few riots. recaptured easily with our new army. Either need to end this war soon or should've razed a few cities.


Here is the save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads6/rbc9_1375AD.zip
 
Charis <--- on deck
Elvis
Dwip
6thGenTexan
hotrod
Yom <-- up now


Now that I've entered us into a war I should give a few of what the heck I was thinking. First Arabs were by far the weakest "reachable" civ. Second they lack horses and iron. Third they were not in MPP with the Mongols or Fighting a common foe with the Mongols.

I thought it would be a shame to not get a good old fashioned cavs vs. riflemen war and having just recently buying salt it seemed like the best opportunity to make a go of it.

Lastly once the Arabs become a OCC we can finally get a few techs from them and possibly have a go at the Aztecs with Tanks. We have very little shot at winning this without a miracle but I think at the very least we should be able to clean up the Arabs and Aztecs and possibly have a go at Koreans as well.

Mongols are far far ahead but we can make it interesting.

Hotrod
 
I wasn't expecting the war to start so soon, but I like it. I guess our culture is pitiful if we completed cathedrals on my turn. Can we pop a few settlers to help claim the Arab lands?
 
I took a shot only because I didn't think we had a chance against infantry and we are a long way from tanks.

It may be too soon but IMO worth the gamble.

I may have blown in it with the flips though :(
 
I won't be able to play it today, and maybe not even tomorrow, so please skip me.
 
We're at war with Arabia, the Aztecs are fighting most of the world, except...
the Mongols are 100% at peace, with an MPP with France. :hmmm: The only semblance of
a counterbalance to the Mongols is now weakened considerably, and our gains are
relatively small. Our culture is about 1/5 the Mongols, and about half of the next
worse rival. Despite this, Korea and Arabia are in worse shape than we are :P
We have pollution that we can't spare a worker to clean, and our fifth and seventh
best cities are rioting. On top of that, we're in Monarchy, a govt that will not really
see us the distance. On the plus side, Pentagon is due in 4 and we have three armies.

I look at the map... :eek: omg, what on EARTH are we doing????? The captured cities
are half a hemisphere away from our core, divide our forces, and have precisely 0%
chance of surviving when we go against the Mongols (not if, when). We're paying more
in upkeep for their bldgs than we're making there. Two are recaptured after flipping
(no WONDER, I had no idea the distance ratio was that bad.) I can see hitting the Arabs
for tech, but capturing the cities?? Even now, we can't even get Electricity for peace.
Even if we could get a bunch more, they're all 'covered up' anyway.

> We have very little shot at winning this without a miracle but I think at the very
> least we should be able to clean up the Arabs and Aztecs and possibly have a go
> at Koreans as well.
Hitting the peons and letting Mongols run unfettered is the best way to guarantee
going down.

Well... enough of that - the situation was (is) brutal and Hotrod took decisive
action to try to help in some way, so thumbs up for being bold :goodjob:
The plan was good except for capture cs raze choice.

My plan then is to pull our northern troops together, give away the cities we'll
never keep, and try for one or two more razings before brining them home.
There are pikes guarding our core cities. I draft from some. Three warriors are
disbanded.

[0] 1375 AD - Khurusan is RIGHT next to capital and is an intense flip risk.
Since I can move out, I do. City is given to Joanie. To the Aztecs I give
Kufah, as the cav shift to Baghdad. In Mecca too, sell off improvements and
give to Joan. This isn't fatalistic, it's avoidance of trying to hold what
we can't keep, and concentrating our good attackers instead of spreading them
out to defend. IBT - Tis sad Joan orders us out of 'her territory' 8-\
Adding injury to insult, that moves a cav nearer to Arabs and they kill it.

[1] 1380 - As Tyrana and Emar wake up, it's draft time.
We capture Aden, planning to give it away as well. Our units at Baghdad are battered
beyond belief. If it flips we lose a big army and five cav. No thanks. I give
it to Aztecs and our troops are magically transported back home. Same for Aden.
Time for peace - we get Electricity for free, but I add in Sanitation and throw in
50gpt and ROP, as we could use bigger core cities. Turns out he HAS no tech
past electricity. We would like Arabs to LIVE so that they might be a two-fer
trading partner.

[2,3] 1385, 1390 - Recuperating at home.
IBT - Glad now we have four solid defenders per city and no weak exposed ones,
we see the Mongols declare war on the Aztecs. Good night Monty. Actually, if
Genghis has no tanks yet, a war vs Infantry is about as lousy a choice as the
Mongols could have made. If the rest of the world comes to peace with Aztecs,
it might become ripe time for a world dogpile vs Mongols.

[4] 1395 - Pentagon completes. I'm actually going to hold out on 'topping off'
the armies - if no war comes, slipping a tank in each will be nifty. Hmm, one
Knight and two cav army. Slowing down the latter isn't great, but neither is
attack 6 vs infantry.
IBT - Aztecs demand TM+80g. Sheesh. Tough call. They really can't hurt us,
but getting into a war when we want to ally with them isn't too nice.
But... tech is tech, and tech is needed. War happiness plus gpt purchase of
tech for peace sounds good. I decline. He declares, but we see no attack.
I won't ally, to allow flexibility to stop.

[5] 1400 - Back at war, but phony unless he sends troops to die.
[6] 1405 - Arabia has Rep Parts. I'ld feel so much more comfortable with that.
[7] 1410 - So much more comfty, I steal it, and succeed. A few more such steals
and the deals should start flowing with the more backward nations.
I debate selling off libraries, as we'll never self-research again, but we
have so few, and our culture is so poor, that I keep them.

It looks for a minute like we have no rubber, but there is some unconnected
in a foest outside Hatusha :P IBT - Mongols and Korea sign MPP.
[9] 1420 - French start Hoover.
IBT Aztecs and Korea come to peace. Ta-Tu finishes Hoover :eek:
[10] 1425 - Our saltpeter deal is done. No sign of Aztecs.
We see Mongol tanks, marines, and Radio towers. 8-\

We're at 614g+160gpt. On occasion Mongols send a troop or two thru our land,
but it's easily ignored right now. Lux just went down to zero, so keep eye out
when cities grow. The KEY hope in this game, if you can call it that, is that
while Mongols are way ahead, the other AI are not totally in the dust. We'll have
chances to get ~2 techs per steal by trading, compared to RBC1. It's ugly, but
don't give up yet. Build some infantry and artillery, and keep alert.

Charis
Elvis <-- UP
Dwip <-- On deck
6thGenTexan
hotrod
Yom

Save file 1425AD

Good luck!
Charis
 
So my weak war with ill advised Captures vs. Razes wasn't a complete loss.

At least we get electricity out of the deal :p
 
On the assumption that my turn is going to come up this weekend, I'm not going to have time to play until about Tuesday, so if my turn should come up between now and then, swap me or skip me, please.
 
With Dwip taking a pas, I'm now up. I've got RBC10 tonight and will have this done on Sunday.

Charis
Elvis
Dwip<-- Skip
6thGenTexan<-- UP
hotrod<-- On deck
Yom
 
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