RBD 4: Introduction to Emperor

There is mostly good news to post from my 10. Here's the details:

1400:

-I change the entertainer in Shangri-La to a scientist so we can at least get Industrialization in at minimum science.

1405:

-Germany doesn't like the iron for 8g/turn, but will go again for 6g/turn
-Our warrior on a hill takes out a Knight before being finally dropped by another Cavalry.


1410:

-Babylon produces a Great Leader when an elite cav takes out an Immortal left in the field :aargh3:
-I get a new RoP with France for 30g lump sum. They're still furious at us, though.

1415:

-Bloodbath for all three sides

1420:

-When my turn ends, there is not a single Babylonian unit on Persian soil. They still won't talk to us, though. From here on out, no Babylonian unit enters our territory and survives an entire round. :D

1425:

-Now, on THEIR turn, Babylon wants to talk with us, "demanding" a straight peace treaty. Not wishing to alienate our Indian allies (and only friends left on the planet) I refuse. I did see how willing Hammurabi was to make peace. He was willing to toss Free Artistry in with peace, or Military Tradition if we gave him 150g (by far the cheapest price for Mil. Tradition of any of the other civs).

-As if we needed more reasons to continue the war with Babylon, they used their Leader to make a cavalry army :eek: It only has 8 hp, though, so it's only 2 cav. Nonetheless, I vow to take whatever measures necessary to kill it off while it's still fortified in Antioch and before peace breaks out.

-The Indians manage to take Xochilalco.

1430:

-I manage to take the army down to 2 hp before I run out of units who can attack Antioch. "Best" defender switches to a conscript rifle, but it'll be back to the army next turn.

1435:

-More attacking Antioch. For several turns, Babylon has been unable to even move a unit within attacking range of any of my cities without being immediately cut down by combined Indian-Persian forces, so all units produced have been sent to Antioch.

-Karachi, which had been revolting for two or three turns, gets enough railroads and food in their radius that I can turn one of those whining Babs into an entertainer without starving them (on the other hand, just starving them out probably would have been a better option).

1440:

-I kill the army in Antioch :goodjob:

1445:

-Now that the army is taken out and Babylon has not been able to keep up with the units, I try to take Antioch itself before we negotiate peace. While one of my vet rifles takes out a defending vet rifle while only losing 1 hp, the conscript rifle that follows it kills 2 Immortals and a rifle, promoting all the way to elite, before dying.

1450:

-France defeats Germany. This means we have another silk and an iron to deal out if we can.

-I renew the straight RoP with India sometime during the last two or three turns.

-There is still one turn of alliance left with India. We can renegotiate peace with Babylon and have them give us concessions. We could also possibly retake Antioch in a few turns, which would be very nice, but is dependent on how long the next chief is willing to let this war last beyond what's absolutely necessary, and how lucky our attackers are.

-I left us on zero science + 1 scientist for the whole ten turns and pocketed the surplus, since I didn't perceive any pressing need to spend our cash. We're now 26 turns from Industrialization instead of 36 with a treasury of over 1000.

-We have an ironclad bombarding Shurrupak, which took out a library and hurt the feelings of the defending riflemen. Was there something else I was supposed to do with those Ironclads that were being built? I made a second one and it is going east to Babylon instead of west, but I don't see any Babylonian naval units, period.
 
Great job with the war, and with slaying their army. I knew from the end of my turn that they were running out of steam, and now that we're in Monarchy, we only need to pause once, long enough to get out mobilzation and build factories. We may not need to go back to mobilization, but if we do, it needs to be with better production on line.

Scrap the 40 turn concept entirely. On a SMALL map, it's a losing move at any point in the game, for any situation I can imagine, other than riding the Great Library. Large/huge maps might be a different story, but even there, this late in the tree, I don't imagine any use for it other than as pure catchup in the most dire situations, storing cash to buy tech at obsolete prices and trying to get a "free one" parallel to that. Those are OCC kind of tactics, really scraping bottom. Desperate. :)

Somebody who outperformed me in Apolyton 4 tried the 40 turn deal on the small map of Apolyton 5 and fell way WAY behind my result, because I pushed through the research and got off my continent much sooner. I finished in 1120AD and he didn't finish until 1460AD, some 55 turns later.

We absolutely, positively, cannot afford to wait like that for anything in this game. We're not going to get far without factories. Go ahead and research Industrialization, it was only going to take 6 turns at break even rates as of the end of my turn, and we must make haste once peace arrives. Skipping 20 turns of factory output would far and away eclipse any commerce savings. Monarchy research may be slower, but we don't need a tech lead. We just need those factories and coal plants, and then we can gear up the war machine. Our weariness with them is completely off the charts, we can't afford to keep revolting back and forth, and they can put us out of our misery if we try to cling to democracy. So... since THEY have forced it onto us to play from Monarchy, we're going to have to adopt a strat that fits with that government: war! And for keeps. Yet the sooner we increase production, the sooner we will pull ahead in the arms race.

Did you have some specific purpose in mind for storing this cash?


- Sirian
 
I agree with Sirian, we need Factories ASAP after we end war with the Babs, which means we need Industrialization ready right then. If we've upgraded everything we can, then we don't need a ton of extra gold except to rush improvements in captured cities we intend to use as forward bases. We should consider spending a bunch of it to speed our research.
 
I stayed at zero science in the beginning because we simply didn't have enough cash on hand and that was how the game came to me (running the scientist in Shangri-La seemed at least to be an improvement over that situation). I saved it at the end mostly because I had saved it at the beginning and was too focused on wiping out that army in Antioch (and possibly recapturing Antioch along with it) that I didn't stop to reevaluate why I was saving gold. I also wanted to hold some out in case we could persuade a civ to give us a tech in trade (since gpt deals are more or less out of the question except from India). I agree that now that the Babs are out of steam and we're for most practical purposes modernized, there was no reason for us to continue the zero science thing.

I also forgot to mention that the Babs later retook Xochilalco from the Indians. It's possible, though I can't remember, that the Indians then took it back from the Babs. I am writing this from a computer lab so I can't check to verify. During the second half of the turn, it appears that the Indians got into a production groove because I started seeing lots of cavalry coming from the Indian interior and taking out Babylonian cavalry (which then got blasted back by Babylon the following turn, ad infinitum).

Once peace is established, get some more rails in the west, the Indians frustrated me to no end whenever they'd run a unit through our territory and it ended its turn between the western terminus of our rail lines and Persepolis.
 
This is only semi-on topic, but: What makes a jumbo (Indian War Elephant) any different from your basic knight? I can only assume the Civilopedia has a typo in it, because both the elephant and the knight have 4/2/2 ADM listed. Perhaps one of the RBD1 alums or anyone who's had experience with the war elephant could elucidate. I am probably going to try for Apolyton 6 in between various SG endeavors, and I'm curious as to what all the fuss about elephants is about (especially how, for example, seeing them on patrol in RBD 3 would instill uneasiness while we have more or less neglected our Roman border and any possible knights that could be hiding therein).

I am also unsure of whether the forum is currently broken and new posts are being registered. I haven't seen any new ones for the past two hours, and while that's not unusual for this time of night, this board/database is known to be a bit on the flakey side.

Edit: it appears that it was just a slow 2 hours. But I'd still like to know about those jumbos.
 
The jumbos are just knights -- but no iron or horses are required to build them, so India WILL always have them. They are not really anything all that special, but they are one of the coolest looking/sounding units in the game. If India hasn't built wonders, then its jumbos also often kick off their golden age, which like Japan and China, is a nasty thing to be seeing compared to the despotic/wasteful GA's of most other civs.

BTW... Apoly6 is pretty rough. I'd say at least as harsh as 4 was.

- Sirian
 
Neat idea for unique traits. And I will take your word of caution under special consideration. Though I never played Apoly 4, your labelling it "rough" is all I need to paint a very bleak picture in my mind. And speaking of bleak pictures, here's a game that I wish I had a save from the first turn (so I could foist it upon your shoulders and see if there is a single ray of hope):

Huge map, 11 opponent civs
Chinese
Monarch
random landmass type (ended up to likely be some variant of continents),
warm/wet/3 billion
roaming barbarians

I was by myself. On an island. Smaller than Japan's homeland in RBD2 (and keep in mind that this is on a HUGE map), small enough to make RBD7 Cuba seem vast. There are no rivers. There are no luxuries. There is a one square inland lake upon which Beijing was founded. Most of the island is plains, hills north and east with a few grasslands to the north, a large unsettlable patch of mountains to the south and east. While there are "shore currents" to the mainland, this area is settled almost immediately by the two premier ancient powers, England and Egypt. With only room for about 9 cities with tolerable overlap and England/Egypt unwilling to do anything but extort me on any deal, I just quit shortly after the BC/AD switch since that sort of oppressive start wasn't something I was interested in overcoming.
 
Well, obviously, having a chance to start from the first turn would be best. Anything else becomes a "scenerio" instead of a full game, as the first 50 turns are the most crucial.

Sounds rough, though.
 
Yeah, yeah, which is why I won't. I also won't because I can't. I didn't take a single save of that game. I tend to play solo much differently from SGs...I hardly ever play through to the modern era, most city planning and long-term research goals are ad-hoc and eyeballed rather than doing any sort of "dot-mapping" exercises, and the first save usually doesn't come unless I decide the game is a "keeper" or I'm forced to quit.

Unlike Mr. "Rumble in the Jungle" Sirian, my SG efforts are definitely my A-game level of play, and what happens solo is typically just playing around waiting for the next SG turn to roll to me.
 
Great Game.

Just wondering if you guys are using a graphics modpack?
From your screenshots because the colour circles under your units are very helpful in identifying units nationality. If you are where did you get it?
 
0) 1450AD Switch to 100% science to get industrialization in 3 turns (-112 per turn).

Aztecs pay 1 gold/turn to renew RoP. Whoo. Better than nothing, at least.

1) 1455AD Our knight kills Babylonian cavalry. Cancel alliance with India. Antioch revolts back to us! Woot!

2) 1460AD Kill 2 Babylonian rifles and 1 pike, then talk peace. Hmmm. This turn Babylon expects us to pay them (last turn they would have paid us). Is this because Antioch is now ours, so we don't have any troops currently threatening their cities?

Oh well. Buy peace and military tradition for 400 gold. Then sell them silks for 8 gold/turn, and buy industrialization for 1 gold.

Why can't I build cavalry? Oh. No saltpeter. Drat.

4) 1470AD Watch Indian and Babylonian cavalry killing each other.

6) 1480AD Indians start on Universal Suffrage.

8) 1490AD The Aztecs demand iron, and declare war on us when we don't give it to them! Oooooh! We're so scared!

France started Universal Suffrage somewhere near the end of turn.

Both Babylon and France have spare saltpeter -- we could get a 20-turn deal from one of them and use it to upgrade our knights.

No sign of any Aztec troops yet, nor have we sent any of our troops to attack them.

We are behind in technology. As usual.
 
It's a preference you can set. Something like "unit color discs enabled". When you're zoomed up, the discs are hollow, when you're zoomed out, they're solid.

And Jaffa...Nice turn, I guess. War with the Aztecs? And they expected us to GIVE them Iron? Are they importing some pungent weed from Charis? :smokin:

Let's wipe the floor with them, I'm still a little bloodthirsty from my turn in RBD3. :soldier:
 
One's up. :)


Hey Carbon, the patch is due out tomorrow. It fixes a lot of things, and none them should necessarily affect this game in any negative way. We're going to have to decide, for this and all the RBD games: to patch or not to patch.

I'm thinking go ahead and patch. Have you seen the patch readme? It's available here at CF in the General forum.


- Sirian
 
I'm for it, though if the other RBD games decide not to, then I'll hold off until then, I'm not going to unpatch/repatch ad nauseum. Phoenix and New Bombay from RBD 3 are gonna be screwed over, though (will they *ever* stop rioting if we allow them to grow?). I can't think of any sort of change listed in the readme that aversely affects what we're doing, so there shouldn't be a big deal. Heck, the Infantry game in particular got a HUGE break by this patch.
 
I agree, we should decide once for all RBD games. No sense in patching and unpatching and repatching and....
 
It's been a day and a half since Jaffa posted, and you haven't shown up. If you don't post a response within 12 hours of the timestamp on this post, then you'll get skipped this round. Zed, if you want, you can take your turn ahead of me in this game, and I'll take my turn in Infantry first.

It might also be to our advantage to get the Indians involved in an alliance vs. the Aztecs, it certainly wouldn't take them the full 20 turns to capture the current Aztec capital while we take Tenochtitlan ourselves. Something to think about.
 
I think the consensus from RBD is to patch. At the very least, when the turn comes around to me in this game we will be running under 1.17f, so if you don't have it yet, get it sometime before your next turn.
 
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