RBD10 SG - The Five Iroquois Tribes

[shdwlord]

Originally posted by Ozymandous
I know we can only found 5 cities, but could we capture cities and give them away on the same turn? Would that break the "5 cities only" rule? If no, this would be a good way to kill off Persia and make more friends, plus we could control who settled in the otherwise vacant area without having to worry about chance.

Interesting idea, but I think the original post covers it.

Originally posted by Sirian
OK, simple concept: we get five cities. Ever. No more, ever. Any additional settlers obtained from huts would have to be melded into the cities, and once we have five cities, any cities that want to defect to us have to be rebuffed. No capturing enemy cities, although razing is allowed.

Doesn't say that we can control 6 cities as long as by the end of our turn we only control 5, but I think that would make for an interesting twist. It opens up the possibility of building junk cities and giving them to the AI just so no one civ has a strong border presence around you.

 

[Sirian]

Ozy: no.

I know that makes life more difficult, but that was the intent.

This being a holiday weekend, I may or may not make it within my 48. A lot of the SG's have been allowed to flounder around a bit, with cutting of slack on the time limits. We've had end of semester for college students, a holiday season for religions, and some of us a little overcommitted on SG's. I intend to make a push to return to more timely operations in SG's in which I am involved... starting after the current holiday.

- Sirian

 

[Ozymandous]

Hah! I knew the answer, I was just testing all of you! :enlighten Yeah, that's the ticket.

Hmm, makes me think of a twist on the "Peace Keepers" game, assuming it starts (and I haven't already missed it).

Can never take more than 50% of a Civ's cities if you attack them and you must give the cities captured to all the other Civ's, starting with the weakest and INCLUDING the strongest. Would make a global "melting pot" eventually assuming enough wars.

Oh well.

 

[Grey Fox]

Anyone noticed that I have played?

So let get this game going again...

 

[Sirian]

Yes, "anyone" noticed. Between the holiday weekend, forum down time, and other factors, I did not take my usual prompt turn. I also did post a collective "got it" for all the games in which I am up (and named them), just didn't post that to every thread. Sorry if you didn't catch it.

- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

IT 980AD: Monarchy? That's going to get vetoed. Everything else looks reasonably intact. I bought Free Artistry on the cheap from somebody (forget who) then bought all available luxuries for import @ miser, paying in gpt.

990AD: I send some wounded knights back to Allegheny to rest. I bombarded a horseman incursing on our land near Grand River, then tried to take out Zohak, but our knight got nowhere and then retreated. I moved two more knights into attack position down there for the next round. Almost as an afterthought, I attacked an immortal south of Catta and got this result:

 

[Sirian]

990AD (cont): Sent the leader to Catta and pondered what to do with him. I decided he would be best used to rush a wonder, probably Smith's. (How did we end up not researching Economics yet? Perhaps if we had researched that sooner, could the loss of shields from losing out on Bach's been avoided, and us have Smith's now?)

"Don't worry, you know it's gonna be all right." WE REVOLT.

1000AD: A new Constitution is drawn up, defining the Iroquois democracy, and General Sirian is elected first President of the United Iroquois Nations. War weariness is, of course, off the charts, but this war is about to be ended.

A military blunder on my part left our longbow unit exposed and they got ambushed by Persian knights.

Our knights find themselves facing a brand new musket unit in Zohak, but I order our elite knights to attack anyway. They barely win with 1 hp left. Our veteran knights then barely defeat the spearman we couldn't touch last turn, and Zohak is razed.

This war could have been avoided, I'm certain of that. However, sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. Because of War with X-man, The Sequel, our spice gambit is going to be redeemed. The two workers captured from razing Zohak are used to found colonies on two of the spices. I razed the road on a third and sent some more troops over from Catta.

Xerxes demanded reparations for peace, and I nearly decided to go raze a couple more cities and see what he would say then, but no, This War Must End. So I paid him ~7gpt and the treaty was signed.

1010AD: X-man immediately starts sending everything he's got onto our lands around Grand River. There is great alarm in the congress, and President Sirian barely survives a No Confidence vote after ordering our troops to DO NOTHING about it.

1020AD: More Persian troops move onto our lands. If he had done this during the actual war, it would have been very interesting indeed. Sometimes you just have to scratch your head at the AI.

1030AD: There are now about seven Persian Knight units within striking distance of Grand River, and still Sirian does nothing about it. "Yes, yes, Xerxes is as arrogant as they come, but I'm about as scared of him as I am of a deformed toad." So said President Sirian.

1040AD: Xerxes gets a chance to do what he was TRYING to do before, when one of my predecessors took exception to the sheer gall of the foreign fool traipsing across our lands (and trampling sacred burial grounds) without permission -- and ordered Persepolis burned to the ground a few more times.

This time he is allowed to pass through, as he seems bent on attacking somebody. ANYbody. Those Persians do love to make war, even if they aren't necessarily all that good at it.

 

[Sirian]

1050AD: Our glorious Great Leader, Shenandoah, nearing the end of his elder days, oversees the completion of a glorious Theater in Niagara Falls. Surely this will lead to the most fine and rich dramas and comedies, and secure our place as the entertainment and cultural capital of the world!

(Nobody had researched economics yet, so I opted to END the cascade here. We should get the rest of the wonders, easily).

Did I mention that our spice colonies have been secured, and that the Aztecs are paying us two fortunes for half our spices?

1060AD: Shakespeare's comes online. AI's who had been investing in it since the start of my turn are all left out in the dust.

1070-90AD: Our ships take to the seas to chart unknown waters. Our diplomats cleverly broker our map information around and serve as middle man for all known explored seas, and net about 400 to 500 gold. A colony is founded north of the Spice Valley, to secure saltpeter for our new Minute Men. Our entire main army is upgraded to the musket, our artillery forces upgraded to cannon. We discover Theory of Gravity and start on Economics.

1100AD: Newton's University due shortly in Salamanca. Wall Street due in Grand River. Once Wall Street is done, Grand River is our Smith's Trading Company building location, prebuild with Palace.

I renegotiated our gems deal with Aztecs, netting a third fortune from them.

Can you believe X-man wanted to ALLY with us against the Aztecs? (What is he SMOKIN? Sheesh. The Aztecs are our best customers! I mean, sure, we're standing around and doing nothing while Xerxes takes over the Aztec colonies north of our lands, but I don't recall Montezuma helping US out any when Xerxes was coming for our cities. So... good luck, Monty!)


My advice for future leaders: after economics, shut down research until the AI's research Magnetism for us and we can buy it on the cheap. Then wait for them to acquire and trade Nationalism around a bit, and buy that on the cheap too. We may want to research Steam and Industrialization, rather than wait and wait and wait and wait on the AI's to do it, but at some point in there, it's going to be to our benefit to shut down all research and just stay at tech parity, or at least shut down at times, and only push now and then for key techs when the AI's get close.

Considering how BAD the war weariness was, we want Suffrage as a High Priority. Theory of Evolution we should be able to get, but there's no hurry.

Let Xerxes trample around all he wants, that should come to an end after he's captured the other Aztec colony. He won't violate the 20 turns of peace, but after that, make sure we have enough defenses in any regions where he's passing through. In fact, those spice colonies are worth so much to us, GIVE IN AND APPEASE him if he makes any threats/demands.

Factories and rails are our next top priority, after we secure the rest of the wonders, including Suffrage.

As a final note, I intend for us to win at the first opportunity, and that likely means diplomatic. Still a ways to go before that even becomes an option, though. We are still in the tail end of the middle ages.


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

Our spice colonies are thriving. We now only need to occupy eight tiles down there to prevent any of the AI's from settling in the area, and I have troops fortified on all eight of these tiles.

DO NOT MOVE THEM.

Do not demand X-man leave our territory.

Do not declare war on Persia.

As long as we stay cool and stay at peace, we should be able to hold on to those two spice colonies for ages. Also the saltpeter colony, for cavalry, etc.

I moved a bunch of spare workers into the saltpeter region. This is a temporary blockade, to discourage any AI's from settling there. Shaka is about to arrive southwest of Catta with a settler and plop down somewhere there. Let him. More targets for X-man that are Not Iroquois.

Leave the worker blockade alone for a while, there is nothing (at the moment) those workers need to be doing. Maybe if we build another half dozen or so spare military, we can send military units to the area. However, we want to keep 5+ troops in each of our cities, too, and that is a higher priority. If we leave our cities too lightly defended, it will only bring on more AI attacks.

Never have I seen a game with so much meaningful colony action. We've had to struggle at times, and endure setbacks, but I'm very pleased with the results of our efforts to reach out and secure colonies in addition to our core cities.

 

[Carbon_Copy]

One question: shouldn't Salamanca be building Wall St. and Grand River building Newton's, instead of the other way around? Grand River is where we put Copernicus, after all.

Great to know that we finally got spices on line. Too bad you couldn't raze any Persepolises on your turn, that ratty little size 2 village to the southeast of our spice colonies must have looked inviting.

 

[Grey Fox]

I don't think we should win by Diplomatic in this game.
That one is to easy. We would surely win with our trading contacts.

What would be a challenge though, would be to build the Space Ship.

With only our 5 Cities we would be limited in production, and if we would be in any war it would be even harder.

I want to win the hardest possible in this game. (And not conquest or domination which are quite impossible in this game. Atleast Domination are).

And it was quite some time since I won with the spaceship.

 

[Sirian]

Carbon: Research bonuses are not multiplicative, as in previous civs, so it doesn't matter. Ideally, we'd want the wonder in Niagara where it WOULD be multiplicative with the extra commerce from the Colossus, but that was not a viable option.

I don't think we should win by Diplomatic in this game.
That one is to easy. We would surely win with our trading contacts.

What would be a challenge though, would be to build the Space Ship.

Grey Fox: have you been following RBD9? Games of Civ are usually won or lost long before the modern age. I disagree that the space ship would be any more significant of a challenge. The AI is simply not equipped to maintain pace with a human player post-industrial on anything less than Deity level, where their huge bonuses make up for their weedy management of econony, government, corruption, and production.

We HAVE had interesting challenges this game, trying to maintain those colonies despite the rabid, endless ambitions of the AI to settle every bit of land, and trying to nab all the wonders. We have lost a couple of the wonder races. As for the final outcome, I don't see the work, care, and preparation needed for diplomatic win to be any easier than space race, or rather... I don't see the space race as any harder, nor more worthy. There are things you can't do or allow and still be able to win diplomatically. I DO think the diplomatic victory conditions are too fickle, in that they only account for the current relations and pretty much ignore the history of the game, but with finishing parts, with prebuilding, and with having ALL the relevant wonders, the resources would be the only real concern. Aluminum. Interesting? Yes. Worth stretching the game length out for? I don't think so. There would not be a civ on the planet that could really harass us, not even Xerxes, and certainly not anybody who has to send transports. The only viable threat would be Domination, and even then, this division of land masses doesn't make that look likely either.

RBD9 undertook specifically to finish the space race. I just finished what is surely my final turn in that game, and at this point, whether diplomatic or space, the win would be in the bag for RBD10, too, barring mismanagement or perhaps one of the AI's taking over the world through domination while we sit around waiting to build the space ship.

Maybe my sense of "challenging" has been skewed lately, with playing on Deity now, but Diplomatic was also the very last victory condition I won with, as I always got into scrapes in my games that made diplomatic votes a LOSING proposition, or at least left them in doubt. I thought that on a larger map a 5CC would be more difficult, as an OCC definitely would be in some trouble, relative to a standard map. However, that just hasn't quite been the case.

I'm not taking diplo off the table, for us or for the AI's. If you are specifically interested in playing out the space race on THIS map, then if it doesn't end that way in the SG, you could always load a save and play out the alternative ending of your preference. OK?


- Sirian

 

[Grey Fox]

Maybe you are right Sirian. Maybe Diplo-Victory and Space race are equally challanging or even harder to win with Diplo.

And an early win would suit me perfect as I'm short on Time.

And Yes, this has been an Exciting game.

Fun playing a 5CC. Maybe too little of a challange with our great start though...

 

[Ozymandous]

got it.

 

[Ozymandous]

Built a lot of roads this turn, roads all over the place.

Everyone else in the world seems to want to fight every other nation except us of course.

Bought Metallurgy and Military Tradition from India after discovering Economics and starting Smiths Trading Co.

Roughly 50% of the AI nations have Nationalism now but want over 1000 gold for the knowledge so I didn't bother buying it.

Japan sent a settler pair all the way around our blockading units to found a city two squares from the saltpeter colony so I started trying to rotate our blocking knights back to the nearest city to upgrade and redeploy them one at a time.

Steam Power in 10 turns or so with a slight profit in research. I had all the cities but the one building Smith's set to build cannons since you can never seem to have too many ranged attacking units.

 

[Sirian]

Sirian
Ozymandous
shdwlord <<<<<< UP NOW
Schnarrd <<<<<< On Deck
Carbon Copy
Grey Fox

 

[Zed-F]

What's the turn limit in this game? The last post was on the 8th, 5 days ago!

I want to know what happens to the Iroquios... well I know they're going to win, probably by building the UN, but details are important too!

 

[shdwlord]

Sorry, not sure what happened, I was subscribed to this thread and never got an email on it

 

[Ozymandous]

Anyone know the time limit on this game? Three days? if so then I'd suggest we move to the next person in the order...

Schnarrd <<<<<< UP Now.
Carbon Copy <<< On Deck.

 

[Schnarrd]

Hold on, Ozy. Shadow, was your most recent post a "got it"? If you don't respond tomorrow, I will grab the game and play.