RBD9 SG - Five Russian Cities

[Iester]

We've got aluminum. We've got the Apollo program. We're building the first three components, all due fairly soon. We've only got Gandhi seriously competing with us.

Thoughts: Get a spy to check on Gandhi's progress. Get SETI, research labs, or both, to outpace Gandhi's research.

I put our research into computers; I hope that was a good choice. I figure if we need it anyway, we should see if we can get our best stab at a tech-increasing wonder. It may win us the race.

The X-man is getting ornery again, but I don't think he matters anymore.

It's just a grind from here on in, making sure we've got the right prebuilds and bartering/stealing/researching the technologies.

Good luck!

Jester

 

[Zed-F]

1625 (0): A couple minor changes, but nothing that significant. I don't like starving cities (interferes with WLTKD, though that's not applicable here) so I pop a couple spare workers out of Cyrilla & Jestograd, and irrigate a plains near Zedropolis. We need at least a modicum of spare food in our granaries to prevent pop loss due to pollution hitting food tiles anyway. We also plant a spy in India.

1630 (1): We finish SS Cockpit at Charistroika, which starts on Wealth.

1645 (4): We start prebuilding for Seti at Charistroika.

1650 (5): We get a new saltpeter source. Yippee...

1655 (6): We finish SS Engine at Zedropolis. Apparently Ghandi has Sattelites, but he hasn't built any ship components yet.

1660 (7): Computers due in 2 turns. Everyone starts placeholders for research labs.

1670 (9): Computers researched. Charistroika due to build SETI in 6 turns, everyone else will build a research lab this turn (everyone wasting at least a couple shields, I guess I could have waited a turn to start prebuilding.) We start on Ecology, going toward Synthetic Fibers. Of course we don't want to trade Computers away unless it's obvious the AI is about to finish researching it.

1675 (10): With science at 100%, Ecology is due in 10 turns. We have 5400 gold and are losing it hand over fist at a rate of 150 a turn. At this rate we will run out of gold before we run out of tech to research, so I slow down our research a bit to 80% (still losing 47 a turn) so we will have enough cash left over to buy into needed techs, which leaves us with Ecology in 12. We could also try to milk our incense for more gold and less lux, being careful not to lose too many happy faces; several trade deals should be up for renewal soon.

No one other than Ghandi has Space Flight yet. Hopefully he will eventually trade Satellites around so we can buy it for a reasonable price rather than researching it ourselves; the same goes for Fission if someone researches it.

 

[Zed-F]

Jaffa
Jester
Zed
Charis << up
Cyrene << on deck
Sirian

Probably that's my last turn this game!

 

[Zed-F]

Charis, are you in feast mode? What's up?

 

[Charis]

Actually not, missed the post. Sorry...

Got it. (likely tonight the post)

Charis

 

[Charis]

1675 AD (0) - Would feel better with a Coastal Fortress on coast towns, so
we switch off wealth a turn or two for that.

Persia. "Compared to these guys we have a strong military" !!!!!!
Woo!!! Come get some green boy!! Whoever built up this massive army...
I like not having to worry about Xerces any more, thanks

To watch the space race best we'll want spies, and folks are polite with us
now. We plant... success in London and Zimbabwe, but Aztecs catch us. I
talk to Monty to reassure him, and give him 50 gold to cheer him up, back
to polite from temporary cautious. (Our military is strong compared to him, btw)

1680 AD (1) - India and Persia come to terms of peace. Pollution is harsh -
one turn of it led to starvation at Tamaringrad since no excess in the box.
After it grows back will probably irrigate a mined spot for a few turns to
give non-zero excess to avoid starvation again.

Zulus are building Manhattan. 8-\

1685 AD (2) - England declared war on the Persians

1700 AD (5) - SETI arrives at Charistroika. Producing 93 of the 100 shields
needed for research lab, I mine two squares for this one turn to crank it
out in one. (Can't let the workers be bored!)

1705 AD (6) - We lost our supply of Aluminum. This was from India. We
will want to talk to Gandhiji to restore this. Do we wait until we can
start building another SS part? I don't see why not. This does prompt a
look to see WHO can supply us. I would HATE to see our only aluminum
supplier be our main space foe. Gandhi has Computers now. Zululand and
India have Fission. No one else has computers yet, but they will as soon
as they can pay full price from Gandhi.

Erm... EVERYONE has aluminum but us, and NO one besides Gandhi has extra.
Zulus have an extra one in their borders, but no harbor! Yuck!
(If only we could pay to build them onen )

Oil for mech inf? Shaka has extra oil for 800 gold if we want. (I didn't)
His fission is expensive, 2700 cash buying in this early.

1720 AD (9) - Ecology arrives, cities are already on it... half done bus lines.
England can pony up about 700 gold for Computers, but not the fair price
closer to 1000, so I hold off.

1725 AD (10) - Tech status:
India: Has Fisson, Satellites, needs and Ecology (Has computers)
Persia: Has Fission, needs Computers and Ecology. Near broke.
Zulus: Have Fission, need Computers and Ecology. Near broke.
Aztecs: Need Computers and Ecology, are broke. (Keep them out of loop)
England: Needs Computers and Eco, offering about 500, less than last turn.

Persia however will trade Fission for Computers if we give 10 gold.
Gandhi will not give up on Satellites for nuthin. Our lux deal with Persia
is about to expire, so I renew.

Ya know... if he won't accept an over of 4500 gold, I just plain don't
like his attitude. And our 'buddies' to the North would love an ally.
How much to steal? Just 1800 safe and 1300 carefully? Let's be careful.

We now have Satellites. :nya2:

No Aluminum to build - I call Gandhi. "FRIEND!!! Let us help your economy
by taking that excess soda-can material off your hands!" Why don't you
share Fission with us while you're at it, it's getting to be common
knowledge? Hmmm... you want ecology? Well... the other civs are too poor
to buy BOTH computers and ecology so them catching up isn't much of a
concern. Why don't you throw in Oil too?? Ok, I can even it out for a couple
hundred gold (and upgrade to Mech Inf). Deal!

Right *after* I did the espionage I remembered India was our only source of
Aluminum. NOT a smart move, even if it did work. 8-\ Next time I'll save
moves like that for when we're actually behind or in trouble.

Ah yes, England could afford 450ish, that's about right for the Fission.
If we don't someone will next turn now that price on it has dropped. 21 gpt.
Monty offers 1 gold for fission, although his treasury is more. Ha! He must
have been researching it, now price drops on him. I sell to him.

(The Mech's you'll see awake next turn just got upgraded, so re-fortify)
Can either stay around 50% sci and 18 turns, or go 0% and full 40.

Charis

 

[Cyrene]

Got it.

I was planning a nice pleasant game of it tonight, but someone did something rather obnoxious to me today and I am still fuming, so I will probably put it off until Saturday morning.

Trust me, you would rather me cool off and lose 12 hours than for me to play it in the mood I am in .

--Cy


and, apropos of nothing at all, i really wish i liked bjork, but i don't

 

[Mavfin]

The game I just started, and the starting position I got...It's a huge map game, too, so this bodes well. Did I mention that expansionistic civs are fun on huge maps?

Well, anyway, here it is. The settler is standing where he was when he started. I moved the scout first, then put the worker on the cow to do something next turn.....2 cows, a wheat, and a river, and some hills to boot.

Pic is below...

In other news, I think relative culture does have an effect on ancient tech trades, but I can't prove it. Government does, too, I think.

Had fun over the last couple nights with a large-map game:

Started on a large island/small continent randomed as the Persians, who I hadn't played yet, and I found the Aztecs pretty quick. Way too close. I started with Bronze Working of course, so I gambled and researched Iron Working in 36 turns. In those 36 turns I founded 3 cities total, and pumped a bunch of warriors and killed Monty's original two cities. He had two settlers out and laid them down just before I killed the other two. One turn later, I had 3 thriving cities, and I had iron hooked up, and 3 immortals every 4th turn. More about this later.

In the ensuing time, Hiawatha's scout had found me, and we had talked amiably. Just as I'm trotting out my first 6-immortal mini-stack of ancient doom, with another one half-formed, here come a stack of 3 iroquois warriors...hmm, what's he doing. I take my immortals, find the 2 last-gasp Aztec cities and kill them. He brings his warriors in my territory. As luck would have it, I was *at that moment* going to declare war on him, to get rid of him, as I had 2 9-immortal stacks running around, with a couple elites in each. I look in the trade screen and he has 7 cities to my 5, and 2 of mine are old Aztec cities! Turns out his were mostly small.

He beat me to the punch! He attacks my farthest out city, Tenochtitlan, which has a vet spear, and one of the aforementioned immortal stacks! Three dead warriors, and one new elite spear.

I haven't actually *found* him yet. I'm on the south end of the island, and had just found the northeast corner. turns out he's northwest. So, I take my two immortal stacks, and a coupla extra spears, and go Iroquois hunting. I take 5 of his 8 cities, including his capital, and he wants to talk for some reason...I just gave him three words, you know the ones, and went on, as I had found his last three cities, and two more died that turn, the last one two turns later. It led to a nice game, really. I ended up 4 techs ahead at the start of the modern age, and built the UN with Grand River, one of his old cities that had shown up with Coal and Iron, and had Ironworks+Hoover in it!

I wiped out the Americans on an island north of me, and then had 7, count them, 8 transports loaded with tanks, mech inf, and arty, stacked with 6 destroyers. ( I stack transports with destroyers. You can put them on long gotos together, as they have the same move rate. The BBs I send ahead to clear the roads :rocket: ) These were all set up to kill off #2 in the game, Cleopatra, who was next to me on her own continent. She was at war with the Germans, and the only other civ left in the game was Japan, who was gracious at the moment, as I had *given* him the one and only city of Gandhi's that I had taken, as one-city Gandhi had MPPed with the Americans and declared war on me. I calmly dispatched one DD and one transport full of infantry to take care of that footnote. It was all the way across the world, so I loaded the troops back on the ship and called up Tokugawa, and said, hey, have a city. He liked that.

Bismarck, I had been paying a lux, about 900 gold, and 20gpt every 20 turns for two lux of his for, oh, I'd say 100 turns or more, so he was very polite, as I was supplying the cash for him to fight Cleo. So, when the UN built, I said, what the hey, let's see what happens...Toku's gracious, and Bis is fighting #2, so the only vote for Cleo should be herself, and I was right. Game over. If they had abstained, well, that's what the loaded troopships and the stack of 'extras' on the mainland were for. (about 20 tanks, 30 mech inf, and 40 arty) All in all, a fun game.

This is the pic I referred to at the start..

 

[Cyrene]

What a joy it is to play in these SG’s with such good players! 90% of the time (as in this case) I inherit glorious empires running like the proverbial swiss watch. Actually, the other 10% are even more fun, when things look bleak and I get to apply the few skills I have at this game to try and get things heading the right direction for the next player. These musings are particularly appropos for this game, as I have just inherited one of the smoothest running empires ever, while, back in the day , in this game I had the shakiest hand-off to another player ever 8-0. Sirian got a game from me in mid-war with Xman that was roughly akin to not just trying to step into a juggling routine with 5 balls in the air, but 5 chainsaws. Not only did he do a fantastic job, he recognized that he had taken over in the middle of a troop-rotating, AI abusing, smoke-and-mirrors campaign that is my metier, and, instead of cussing me out, adapted his style to what I left him and pulled it out.

All this is a preamble to saying we are cooking with gas .

My first move was to veto all the bus routes in favor of navy and air force. I care not how messy our people are, I have stacks of workers leaning on shovels that can clean up all the messes in one turn.

I built both Manhattan and Battlefield Med. The BM (ewwww) was a bit weedy, but it is one culture per turn with no upkeep, and, well, I feel odd NOT building a wonder that I can. Manhattan was for ICBM place-holders for rocket parts.

India must be feeding their scientists crystal meth with their wheaties, they researched BOTH Superconductor and Synthetic Fibers on my watch. This annoyed me so much I stole Superconductor from them. Yes, I know, this was stupid, as was specifically pointed out by Charis in his report, but, erm, I was annoyed . I have been feeding India small amounts of gold on a regular basis—they are still “gracious”.

So, takeover notes . We were bankrupted by my espionage escapades. I had to turn off research mid synth fiber to recover. In two turns we will be back over the 1k mark, and you can crank research back up and get synth fibers in 7 turns, just in time to change the ICBM in progress in Jesterville over to a rocket part. Our other cities produce too much for a 10-turn placeholder 8-0. All this planning and timing is predicated on India still being the only civ to have Synth Fibers and us researching at 2nd civ rates, which is not necessarily a given. India is (so far) our only opponent in the space race.

With India pushing research so hard, I get this feeling this was my last turn in this game—happy launchings .

--Cy

ps—this is OT for this game. Sirian, this game is better than sending you a save game for the problem in my solo games I was asking for help about. If this was one of my solo games, I would have eaten up Persia to the choke point, or taken it out altogether. I would be right where we are now, anticipating a space win. But on the other continent, India would be wiping out the last civ, and I would be about to lose via domination. People write about “helping out the weaker civs”, but what can you actually do about a different continent?

 

[Sirian]

Cy, I have one space race victory under my belt. ONE. Only one.

Why is that? Games don't last that long with me. I get a tech lead sooner than you do, on average, and then I prosecute the advantage in some regard. I've developed all kinds of finesse in regard to slowing down AI progress. Get them into wars early in the industrial age and keep them there, they'll never get to the upper end of the modern age. Heck, even on Deity with a completely peaceful game, I have found it to be true that the AI's will slow one another down so much with wars, you can slip past them in the modern age while they aren't looking.

War options are on the table in most of my games. So is diplomacy. The only circumstance where a non-deity game lasts long enough for the space race is when diplomatic and war options are off the table (for whatever reasons -- voluntary or otherwise). If I am employing war (warmongering OR reacting to warmongers) then the AI's will simply not get that far on Emperor or below. I can slow them enough to press advantage, and once they start losing major cities, they're done for. Diplomacy is the easiest victory condition to meet, overall, and comes available sooner than a launch. I therefore pretty much have to target a launch as my ONLY goal, for the game to last that long.

The AI's can only win by domination by controlling more than 2/3rds of the world's surface. Presuming they don't get any of your territory, that means they have to whip everybody else. It can happen, but I've only ever been in a position to suffer from it in my first OCC game. I had to be that small/weak for an AI to grow that strong, and even then I stood in their way and withstood a couple dozen turns of total war.

If you let it get to a point at which one of the AI's has taken over several rivals, it's already too late. You have to make a balanced effort from the start to throw tech and trade support behind weaker looking civs, or try to balance out alliances, knowing that warmongers often overcommit then get picked apart.

If you aren't willing to go to war, but are trying to play pacifist, AND you are restricting your civ size, AND diplomacy is disabled, AND AND AND AND... well, perhaps I don't have a useful reply for you. Other than to remove some of the "AND"s until you get back to a place where your scenerio is not catch-22 with contradictory conditions or objectives. The primary solution to a successful conquering civ is to stand up to them militarily. If that's not one of your scenerio options, then it's a roll of the dice. Will you draw a map where one of the AI's can climb to ascendancy? If you do, how does this in any way reflect on YOUR performance, if you don't allow yourself to interfere?

Unless you are specifically INTENDING to roll the dice in that regard, then I recommend you do one of the following things:

* Disable domination. It's off the table for you to begin with, in this scenerio. Taking it off the table for the AI's would require them to beat you with the options you're pursuing... or lose.

* Untie your own hands in regard to military response.

* Cope. You can try throwing your diplomatic weight around, but much of the diplomacy is backed by military force, and without that, all you have is economic factors. Can still do a lot with those, but can't resolve every situation that way.

* Deal. If none of the previous options suits you, then accept the consequences of the scenerio you choose to play, suck it up, and lose gracefully if they manage to "win the race" to domination before you can launch.


OK, I've "Got It" for RBD9.


- Sirian


PS: Cy, Jaffa, Jester: I posted some D1 thoughts on the team forum.

 

[Sirian]

President Sirian frowns. He looks to his left, scans the empty area behind his desk on that side of the room. He looks to his right, peering around in perplexity. Nobody there either.

He looks back up at the video teleconferencing monitor, at the wild-haired face of King Xerxes. He frowns a little deeper.

"Are you talkin to me?"

Sirian's eyes bulge a little and his hand waves in little tiny circles while his head nods rapid, tiny little nods, like he's witnessing such a massive episode of absurdity as to leave him at a loss for words. He frowns even deeper and points to his own chest.

"Are you talkin to me?"

He looks around the room one more time.

"I don't see anybody else here, a$$hole. Are you talkin to ME?"

 

[Sirian]

President Sirian nods more of those frenetic, tiny, almost crazed little nods. His frown has completely taken over his face now.

"Oh yeah, Jerkski. I hear you talkin to me. I hear you. And you know what? I got your satellites RIGHT HERE. I'm sendin em right on over to you. In fact, they're on their way. You understand me? THEY ARE ON THE WAY. Now I'm gonna check back in with you shortly, see how your dish reception is working out. Because let me tell YOU something. I want the signal to come through LOUD and CLEAR."

President Sirian punched off the connection, and the sniveling face of the X-man faded off the screen.


Two Years Later...

President Sirian sends a videotaped message to the Persians.

"Greetings from Mother Russia! This is President Sirian. I am inquiring about the condition of your satellites. We here would like to know if you are receiving the signal OK. Is the information REACHING YOU? Are you RECEIVING OUR TRANSMISSIONS?"

 

[Sirian]

Two more years later:

President Sirian signs the letter to Persia.

"We hereby notify you of completion of your contract. Now that you've gotten all that was coming to you, we're happy to report that this arrangement has now been concluded, as we are satisfied that you have Received the Shipment. If there is anything else you want from us in future, you be sure to let us know, da? Da. Very good, then. And... enjoy your satellites!"

Curiously, there was no reply or acknowledgement from the Persians. Perhaps they were too busy enjoying all they had received.

 

[Sirian]

IT 1760AD: Steady as she goes. I broker Ecology for ~600g and some Coal and gpt from X-man, so we can get back above the Interest Threshold and immediately resume research.

1762AD: A cheerful, peaceloving president Sirian begins to enact his "Beautify Mother Russia" agenda, with the planting of new forests out away from the cities. Many laborers are employed!

1764AD: X-man "requests" satellites.

1764AD (cont): Persian ships sink one of our vessels in a surprise ambush. Persian bombers are shot out of the sky in droves by our fighters, but one squadron gets through and destroys some rails.

1764AD (cont): Russian cossacks burn a Persian city to the ground. Three units are lost. Persian survivors are rounded up, handed shovels, and "requested" to plant some trees. Russian tanks advance toward the next city.

1766AD: Another One Bites the Dust. Ooh, they gonna get you too! Another One Bites the Dust. (Not even Persian mech infantry could blunt the wrath of President Sirian).

1768AD: Third Time is the Charm! As the third and final Persian city in the south goes up in smoke, and its survivors are led off to Siberia to Plant Some Trees, Sirian orders Russian forces to pull back, and to leave Nothing intact in their wake.

1770AD: Scorched earth. The Russian Response to Persia's declaration of war is complete. Not a building, rail, paved road, or field remains intact for hundreds of miles north of the Russian border. Forests have been planted all along the border to slow any future incursions or threats by the Persian dogs.

Oh yeah, and we discovered Synthetic Fibers.

1772-1780AD:

* Built a few spaceship components (just one left to go).
* Built a few mass transit systems (and start the rest).
* Built an ICBM.

(HELLO, XERXES? ARE YOU SATISFIED WITH OUR DELIVERY? NYET? WE CAN SEND YOU A BIGGER SHIPMENT IF YOU -REALLY- WANT IT!)

* Watched Shaka commit ritual suicide (he attacked Ghandi).
* Upgraded many of our troops.
* Renewed our Aluminum deal. (Ghandi gave us the miser price but we had to have it!)
* SMASHED every offensive move made by the X-man.
* Tried to talk to Xerxes over and over, but he's fuming mad, and vows not to even talk to Sirian -- he's hoping to get better surrender terms from the next Russian administration, I guess.
* Despaired at the first-civ research time for Nuclear Power, while Ghandi grabbed Recycling. He has not even started the parts from Synthetic Fibers, but it looks like it may be a photo finish.
* Um... planted a few trees.


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

Happy Easter! Here's a view of Russia at the end of my term.

 

[Charis]

I like it!! (Uh huh, uh huh!)

[dance] :die!:

What a hoot! And to think, my last term I was wondering, what on EARTH do we have all this military for? How can we possibly have a military "as strong as" these giants? I've never had an nCC game where I got to make an *offensive* move.


Charis

 

[Jaffa Tamarin]

0) 1780AD Ooooh. So that's what modern armor looks like

I don't think we want to pay 6gpt to England to trade luxuries any more. Let's have them pay us, instead

And same with the Aztecs. Okay, so Montezuma won't actually pay us anything, but he's quite happy to exchange luxuries for free.

Discarded our nascent ICBMs (we only need one for Persepolis, after all ), and switched Cyrilla, Zedropolis and Jestrograd to wealth production, will let the others finish mass transit first. Nuclear power in 11 turns.

Persian battleships shell our mech infantry. Our source of uranium vanishes

2) 1784AD Some Persian tanks offer themselves up as target practice for our modern armor.

3) 1786AD We sink two Persian battleships (and lose one of ours).

What happened to the Zulus, indeed! Shaka is down to two cities on an island.

We sell off all but one of our airports, and achieve zero net cash flow

6) 1792AD Much activity on the AI diplomatic front. England and Persia sign a peace treaty. England and India sign an MPP, and an alliance against the Zulu (and England declares war on the Zulu).

7) 1794AD "Hey, X-man. See this button. Guess what it does?"

Persia agrees to talk to our envoy. We trade a peace treaty and incense for 20gpt+60g+dyes+silks+WM. Science rate up to 80%, nuclear power in 4 turns.

9) 1798AD Gandhi has nuclear power. We trade him our territory map, and start on laser.

"Ah! My good friend Xerxes, old chap, old chum! Would you care to trade us your uranium? You would! How simply delightful!"

Zedropolis and Charistroika start nuclear plants.

10) 1800AD The English have suddenly come into some money. We sell Elizabeth our saltpeter for 17gpt, and synthetic fibres for WM+20g+3gpt.

Zedropolis and Charistroika finish nuclear plants in two turns, after which they can go back on wealth, and we should be able to raise the science tax a bit. Zedropolis will build our last SS part -- can use ICBM as placeholder for a few turns.

India still has just six SS parts completed. If Gandhi goes directly for lasers, he might get there before us, but we should be able to out-produce him while India is in communism.

 

[Jaffa Tamarin]

Jester, GOGOGO!

 

[Zed-F]

If all we have left to research is lasers, and we still have cash to burn, now's the time to go max science.

 

[Jaffa Tamarin]

Jester << UP
Zed << UP if Jester doesn't 'get it' soon

Let's get this game finished, folks