My reasoning on fusion bombs was that they're a tech we definitely want that moves us up the tree, and we're POOR at weapons so overpaying for the hypers isn't appealing. The hypers are ok, but obsolete fairly quickly in my experience. We will definitely be looking for mercs/scatter/stinger soon though. If either of the erratics show any real fleet I'd trade for hyper-x from the mrshan (they want range 6), but as they haven't yet yelled yahtzee I prefer to research the real tech rather than the vaporware.
-
Civilization 7 has been announced. For more info please check the forum here .
RBO - OSG3 - Hard Rock Cafe
- Thread starter ToddMarshall
- Start date
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
I got it.
I've not felt well the last couple days, so I'm not sure if I'll play tonite or not. It looks pretty good to me also.
I tend to agree with Zed's analysis on weapons tech, though I don't usually research Hyper-X rockets unless there is no beam present (which this time there wasn't) or I'm in a desperate hurt for missiles asap.
Fusion Bombs are offense only, we aren't ready to go on offense for a while, and usually pretty easy to get in a trade would have been my thinking. However, IF we stay out of war, it might be a benifit to us in the long run if we can get scatter/merc -> fusion beams. If neither of those missiles is in the tree we NEED, imho, to go back for Hyper X.
Add npg and IC to the tech trade shoping list, though engine is the priority. I dislike all the beams between IC and Fusion Beams as they aren't as space efficient. In a pinch we could research Neutron Blasters or Graveton Beams (both the erratics tend to build smaller designs is the only reason I mention this one), but I tend to stay away from Mass Drivers and Hard Beams whenever possible. They just don't seem to fit very well on smaller ships, and then if the enemy researches repulsors you're hosed. At least with blasters you have the 2 space option.
-Maniac
Edit: We cross posted. Good Answer. As I said, I'm not terribly fond of Hyper-X's either, and you provided a pretty good explanation of why you went for the Fusion Bombs. I haven't looked at the save yet, and didn't know the Kitties were shopping Hyper-X, but knowing they are makes that choice seem a lot more appealing.
I've not felt well the last couple days, so I'm not sure if I'll play tonite or not. It looks pretty good to me also.
I tend to agree with Zed's analysis on weapons tech, though I don't usually research Hyper-X rockets unless there is no beam present (which this time there wasn't) or I'm in a desperate hurt for missiles asap.
Fusion Bombs are offense only, we aren't ready to go on offense for a while, and usually pretty easy to get in a trade would have been my thinking. However, IF we stay out of war, it might be a benifit to us in the long run if we can get scatter/merc -> fusion beams. If neither of those missiles is in the tree we NEED, imho, to go back for Hyper X.
Add npg and IC to the tech trade shoping list, though engine is the priority. I dislike all the beams between IC and Fusion Beams as they aren't as space efficient. In a pinch we could research Neutron Blasters or Graveton Beams (both the erratics tend to build smaller designs is the only reason I mention this one), but I tend to stay away from Mass Drivers and Hard Beams whenever possible. They just don't seem to fit very well on smaller ships, and then if the enemy researches repulsors you're hosed. At least with blasters you have the 2 space option.
-Maniac
Edit: We cross posted. Good Answer. As I said, I'm not terribly fond of Hyper-X's either, and you provided a pretty good explanation of why you went for the Fusion Bombs. I haven't looked at the save yet, and didn't know the Kitties were shopping Hyper-X, but knowing they are makes that choice seem a lot more appealing.
Factoid
Chieftain
ToddMarshall (excerpted) said:
Hi all,
I find the interaction between base-building strategy and missile research strategy quite interesting (that is, no simple choices, and lots of different and successful choices taken by different people). Being short of BOTH built bases and researched missiles makes me nervous, personally. Having researched a strong missile relative to enemy ship/weapon tech makes deferring missile base building much easier.
ToddMarshall said:
The beam weapons are also interesting. I am very close to Maniac on this one, though in the past I have favoured Graviton beams more than he does, by the sound of things. Neutron blasters seem to be poor in terms of damage/space efficiency in comparison to both Ion cannons and Fusion beams (yay Selentine's spreadsheet). I also feel there is a relatively small window between being able to fit NPG in smalls and being able to fit Ion cannons - this VERY much depends on pace of Weapons research of course! It is only at deflector 6 or 7 that one NPG out-damages one (range 1) Ion Cannon. I believe penetrating weapons halve (rounding UP) enemy shields? That is, deflector one shield halves and rounds up to one, so NPG damage lowers to 1-4 in this case. Confirmation, anyone?
In summary, given I have Ion cannons I don't normally care about NPGs.
The other factor in beam weapon choice is which missiles are available for research, Stingers are SO much better than Merculites they are an automatic choice for me but this (in a minor way) biases me against also researching Fusion beams in the same tier. I am generally happy once I have ONE early-ish range 2 beam weapon available, my preference order being 1.Ion cannon 2.Fusion beam 3.Neutron blaster. If I (for a change for me) go for lots of missile-heavy medium ships, range 2 beam weapons become much less important.
All of my opinions are (or should be) completely irrelevant to your game
but it may be worth thinking about these issues in advance. Or it may be much more fun to let people use their own judgement and get some real variety in the game. 
Keep up the good work y'all, this game is very entertaining. Educational too.
Cheers,
Factoid.
If someone would be so kind as to link me to it?
My preference for ship building is a heavy fleet of deterrent bombers in 2 stacks and one or two support ships. Since the AI evaluates bombs as ship to ship weapons for some reason when deciding to stay and fight or run and live, I've had groups of fusion nuclear engine bombers drive off autorepair ion cannon stacks several times. One of these days I'm going to load a huge up with bombs and all the repair specials then see if the computer will retreat ships from a reasonable number of them.
I'm currently wondering when we're going to ally the kitties? Ideally we'd do this before they get contact with the humans so we can sic the kzin on the apes.
My preference for ship building is a heavy fleet of deterrent bombers in 2 stacks and one or two support ships. Since the AI evaluates bombs as ship to ship weapons for some reason when deciding to stay and fight or run and live, I've had groups of fusion nuclear engine bombers drive off autorepair ion cannon stacks several times. One of these days I'm going to load a huge up with bombs and all the repair specials then see if the computer will retreat ships from a reasonable number of them.
I'm currently wondering when we're going to ally the kitties? Ideally we'd do this before they get contact with the humans so we can sic the kzin on the apes.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
OK, The first order of buisness is to see what hasn't yet been scouted, and prepare to scout it at the earliest convenience, and to make sure everything has a scout in place thats been scouted, as I notice we have some scouts in retreat? Could we not have just turned them arround or did we just forget? 
We have 2 spare scouts in place at Dunatis to send to the 2 bottom planets, so thats all good. The 2 planets we cant cover yet scout in the bottom right don't have any spares, so I order Rich Escalon to make a pair to send that way. I want to scout the Red between Willow and Mentar asap, so I take a chance and send the scout off of Bootis, which should be safe for 2 turns as its toxic, order up a scout from Ukko recloced to Bootis. The left side is where the challenge is. We are about to settle Toxic Xendala, but unfortunately, we only have 2 scouts overhead, and there are 5 planets over thataway, though one of those will still clearly be out of range, and a 2nd one is questionable.... We have 4 spares at Moro, but thats NINE turns away, or 6 turns behind the Colship. The nearest planet is Ryoun, but thats 11 turns from Xendala. Not sure which will get places faster, I send the spares to Xendala, and make 4 spares to send to the blue asteroids. On the plus side, I should have every single scout mission started by the end of my turn, so we shouldn't ever have to fiddle with scouts again
OK, next I check the planets screen to see which planets might need their starting pop sent. There are 3 candidates, but I notice that 'sports are on the way to Thrax. Maretta and Bootis need help however. I send 11 mil from Phantos to Maretta, and, reluctantly, 8 million from Ukko to Bootis.
Now, about them Colships.... There are currently 16 worlds still up for grabs, but at least one of them is hopless because its Orion. We currently have 9 Colships. Thats a diffrence of 6.. I know we won't get every contested world, but I'm hoping we can do better than 9 for 15, and I'd rather have 2 too many colships than 2 too few, so I look and think... then decide to just make a couple more off Ryoun starting next turn, saving the hideous transit time from the core by doing so. I also will think about making a couple at Escalon. I wish a couple more of the colships had reserve tanks... I send the Colship at Ryoun to Dunatis and pray its still settlable in 12 turns.
I do the planetary tour and most of it looks good. I tell a couple planets to terraform, thats about it.
On the tech front: Was Robotics III our only cpu choice? We probably should have skiped that on this size map. Class II is overdue, so I shift most of its spending to Construction for Auto Repar, which is the most appealing tech that I see us going after atm.
Still having trouble believing that damn red flag at Regulus. Hmm, there is an extra scout at Thrax, so I decide to see if I can get a peek at what we lost. Kitties are plenty friendly so one scout mission shouldn't bother them.
OK, its finally time to click next turn.
2390 - Class II pops. Crapola. Class III is the only choise, no PDS. Rich Proteus up in the corner maxes out on facts. I tell it to feed the reserves. I set Ryoun to making an LR Colship, and do the same at Escalon... Hmm 8 turns for Escalon? Nopers. 4 turns, because I'll feed the Reserves to it. See, we found a use for Therlun's reserves afterall Shuffle scome scouts about and reset research. Not much to do this turn. I have to laugh though, when I notice we are 2nd in fleet strenght. FEAR our scouts. ph34r them! I send the just arrived LR Colship to Vulcan. FIFTEEN turns. Will we get it?
2391 - We settle at Spica. I send it 8 million from Ryon because there isn't anywhere else to send from. Very quiet turn.
2392 - We settle at Xendala. I send it 5 million from Moro. The Sakkra appear to be sending a large to scout Xendala. They don't have toxic and should leave. Scouts arive at White Rhilus in the deep south and find it Barren. This looks like a winner for where to send the Colship that Escalon is making. It isn't safe from the Kitties, they have Controlled Tundra. I notice Seidon only has 3 bases, I tell it to scramble up 2 more. Do some terraforming.
2393 - The Lizards weren't scouting the Toxic afterall.
2394 - The 2 colships complete. I'm going to make 2 more. Thats probably overly ambitions, but oh well. The Psilons show up with Neuclear Engines. Lessee what we can trade for those. Crap, they won't take Range 6 for it. I notice Kitty colships, but they appear to be in retreat?
2395 - Yep, the Kitty Colships are headed toward their core. Could it be the fleabags haven't redesigned them to fit Tundra bases on them?
. The rest of the turn = one big
2396 - Poor Tauri, our original "half artifacts" planet, maxes its factories. Computers half done. I reduce it to a single click. I wish we weren't researching Robotics III 
. The 3 regular colships arrive at Spica. What to do with those? Well, there are only 3 planets left that are in range of a regular colship at the moment (and only 5 other planets period, 2 of which are still beyond even extended range.) Odds are one of those is Orion. Well, the guardian is going to get fed a snack then because I send the colships out blind to those 3 stars.
(continued)
We have 2 spare scouts in place at Dunatis to send to the 2 bottom planets, so thats all good. The 2 planets we cant cover yet scout in the bottom right don't have any spares, so I order Rich Escalon to make a pair to send that way. I want to scout the Red between Willow and Mentar asap, so I take a chance and send the scout off of Bootis, which should be safe for 2 turns as its toxic, order up a scout from Ukko recloced to Bootis. The left side is where the challenge is. We are about to settle Toxic Xendala, but unfortunately, we only have 2 scouts overhead, and there are 5 planets over thataway, though one of those will still clearly be out of range, and a 2nd one is questionable.... We have 4 spares at Moro, but thats NINE turns away, or 6 turns behind the Colship. The nearest planet is Ryoun, but thats 11 turns from Xendala. Not sure which will get places faster, I send the spares to Xendala, and make 4 spares to send to the blue asteroids. On the plus side, I should have every single scout mission started by the end of my turn, so we shouldn't ever have to fiddle with scouts again OK, next I check the planets screen to see which planets might need their starting pop sent. There are 3 candidates, but I notice that 'sports are on the way to Thrax. Maretta and Bootis need help however. I send 11 mil from Phantos to Maretta, and, reluctantly, 8 million from Ukko to Bootis.
Now, about them Colships.... There are currently 16 worlds still up for grabs, but at least one of them is hopless because its Orion. We currently have 9 Colships. Thats a diffrence of 6.. I know we won't get every contested world, but I'm hoping we can do better than 9 for 15, and I'd rather have 2 too many colships than 2 too few, so I look and think... then decide to just make a couple more off Ryoun starting next turn, saving the hideous transit time from the core by doing so. I also will think about making a couple at Escalon. I wish a couple more of the colships had reserve tanks... I send the Colship at Ryoun to Dunatis and pray its still settlable in 12 turns.
I do the planetary tour and most of it looks good. I tell a couple planets to terraform, thats about it.
On the tech front: Was Robotics III our only cpu choice? We probably should have skiped that on this size map. Class II is overdue, so I shift most of its spending to Construction for Auto Repar, which is the most appealing tech that I see us going after atm.
Still having trouble believing that damn red flag at Regulus. Hmm, there is an extra scout at Thrax, so I decide to see if I can get a peek at what we lost. Kitties are plenty friendly so one scout mission shouldn't bother them.
OK, its finally time to click next turn.
2390 - Class II pops. Crapola. Class III is the only choise, no PDS. Rich Proteus up in the corner maxes out on facts. I tell it to feed the reserves. I set Ryoun to making an LR Colship, and do the same at Escalon... Hmm 8 turns for Escalon? Nopers. 4 turns, because I'll feed the Reserves to it. See, we found a use for Therlun's reserves afterall
Shuffle scome scouts about and reset research. Not much to do this turn. I have to laugh though, when I notice we are 2nd in fleet strenght. FEAR our scouts. ph34r them! I send the just arrived LR Colship to Vulcan. FIFTEEN turns. Will we get it? 2391 - We settle at Spica. I send it 8 million from Ryon because there isn't anywhere else to send from. Very quiet turn.
2392 - We settle at Xendala. I send it 5 million from Moro. The Sakkra appear to be sending a large to scout Xendala. They don't have toxic and should leave. Scouts arive at White Rhilus in the deep south and find it Barren. This looks like a winner for where to send the Colship that Escalon is making. It isn't safe from the Kitties, they have Controlled Tundra. I notice Seidon only has 3 bases, I tell it to scramble up 2 more. Do some terraforming.
2393 - The Lizards weren't scouting the Toxic afterall.
2394 - The 2 colships complete. I'm going to make 2 more. Thats probably overly ambitions, but oh well. The Psilons show up with Neuclear Engines. Lessee what we can trade for those. Crap, they won't take Range 6 for it. I notice Kitty colships, but they appear to be in retreat?
2395 - Yep, the Kitty Colships are headed toward their core. Could it be the fleabags haven't redesigned them to fit Tundra bases on them?
. The rest of the turn = one big 2396 - Poor Tauri, our original "half artifacts" planet, maxes its factories.
Computers half done. I reduce it to a single click. I wish we weren't researching Robotics III . The 3 regular colships arrive at Spica. What to do with those? Well, there are only 3 planets left that are in range of a regular colship at the moment (and only 5 other planets period, 2 of which are still beyond even extended range.) Odds are one of those is Orion. Well, the guardian is going to get fed a snack then because I send the colships out blind to those 3 stars. (continued)
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
2397 - Scouts arrive at the Red between Mentar and Willow, and find it to be Radiated Kalis. I dispatch the just completed Colship at Ryoun there. Gee, only thirteen turns. Really not much going on.
2398 - Death Spores hits. Our choices are Terraforming +30 or never research Planetology again. I choose Terra +30
. Scouts arrive at Stalaz, the southernmost of the 2 unsettles purple and find it to be the best planet these rocks have ever seen. Rich, Radiated, SIZE 80!! Thats a friggin HUGE Radiated planet people. A colship is allready on the way there We settle at Anraq. The colship completes at Escalon. Which planet to send it to? The yellow, or the one WAY in the corner. I select the Yellow, even though I think now that that's Orion, because the Kitties don't have the range to reach the corner yet I don't think. I start annother colship at Escalon for the Corner System. I send out scouts to the last 2 planets. No more sending scout ships anywhere the rest of the game I send 5 million from Ukko and 6 million from Escalon to start off
Arraq. I hate sending from here, but there is nowhere else within 10 friggin turns. Have I mentioned we need an engine?
2399 - We have found ----- Orion
As Luck would have it, it's one of the 3 planets that we haven't sen't a colship to yet, so we wont have to suicide one of those. Yea! Our next to last colship completes at Ryoun (the last from Ryoun. The Rich planet in the South is still building the LAST one for the bottom left corner which will complete next turn, then no more colships), which is now told to terraform. The poor in the Nebula maxes factories. I tell it to do about 1/3 on bases 2/3 on research. I also tell our other poor planet to do that. They should both have one base sometime durring Zed's turn. If anyone want's to veto this move, go for it.
Now, because the vote is due on the interturn, and the last colship is due on the interturn, I decide to go through the interturn.
But first, time to talk to our "friends". The Humans have npg's and WILL trade them for Spores or range 6. I decide to do it for range 6 because A) we seriously need a gun and B) I think this will get them contact with the Kitties so we can get that war started. Ummm, nope, it doesn't get them in contact. The Klackons won't trade at all. Everything else from everyone
else is blech.
2400 - Scouts find Barren size 30 Drakka at the Purple just south of Xendala. Firma goes Rich!!!!!
Thats good news and bad. Good news is it used to be poor, bad news is it's in the nebula. I have it doing 1/3 on bases. You might want to roll that back some, but leave some on bases. Nebula planet that it is, it will need bases.
Kitties 7 votes Abstain, Psilons 3 votes the Humans, Sakkras 3 votes for us? really? Bugs 3 votes the Humans, Humans 8 votes themselves, Us, 10 votes abstain. If your scoring at home, we have 10 of 34 votes. If we can turn the Kitties against them, they can't win.
I dispatch the final colship to the corner system, but do nothing else
NOTES
No more dealing with scouts or colships
We are now starting to generate reserves, so spread some arround to stand up the new colonies, especially the non hostiles.
Techwise we see the following:
With Robotics III being a big growth stunter, I dialed it way down. It's going to hit soon anyway. Fusion bombs is down to single click waiting to hit any second now. When it does, please give weapons more spending, especially if we have a missile. Edit: Actually, I guess I saved before I sawped the extra from Constr to Force Fields. Please swap those 2 ammounts when you start your turn Therlun. (Just click FF until it reaches 1%)
I had been spending the extra on construction for Auto Repair, but just switched to Force Fields so we can find out if we have Planetary shields or not.
Finally 2 last pics for the Lurkers
Maybe Therlun will make us one of his cool map mods for this last one either before or after his turn
REMINDER ITS 10 TURNS EACH TURN FROM NOW ON
ROSTER
Maniac <- Just Played
Therlun <- Up now
Zed-F <- On Deck
dathon <- In the hole
AlanSHB <- In the Clubhouse
And finally, here is The Save
-Maniac
2398 - Death Spores hits. Our choices are Terraforming +30 or never research Planetology again. I choose Terra +30
. Scouts arrive at Stalaz, the southernmost of the 2 unsettles purple and find it to be the best planet these rocks have ever seen. Rich, Radiated, SIZE 80!! Thats a friggin HUGE Radiated planet people. A colship is allready on the way there We settle at Anraq. The colship completes at Escalon. Which planet to send it to? The yellow, or the one WAY in the corner. I select the Yellow, even though I think now that that's Orion, because the Kitties don't have the range to reach the corner yet I don't think. I start annother colship at Escalon for the Corner System. I send out scouts to the last 2 planets. No more sending scout ships anywhere the rest of the game I send 5 million from Ukko and 6 million from Escalon to start off Arraq. I hate sending from here, but there is nowhere else within 10 friggin turns. Have I mentioned we need an engine?
2399 - We have found ----- Orion
As Luck would have it, it's one of the 3 planets that we haven't sen't a colship to yet, so we wont have to suicide one of those. Yea! Our next to last colship completes at Ryoun (the last from Ryoun. The Rich planet in the South is still building the LAST one for the bottom left corner which will complete next turn, then no more colships), which is now told to terraform. The poor in the Nebula maxes factories. I tell it to do about 1/3 on bases 2/3 on research. I also tell our other poor planet to do that. They should both have one base sometime durring Zed's turn. If anyone want's to veto this move, go for it.
Now, because the vote is due on the interturn, and the last colship is due on the interturn, I decide to go through the interturn.
But first, time to talk to our "friends". The Humans have npg's and WILL trade them for Spores or range 6. I decide to do it for range 6 because A) we seriously need a gun and B) I think this will get them contact with the Kitties so we can get that war started. Ummm, nope, it doesn't get them in contact. The Klackons won't trade at all. Everything else from everyone
else is blech.
2400 - Scouts find Barren size 30 Drakka at the Purple just south of Xendala. Firma goes Rich!!!!!
Thats good news and bad. Good news is it used to be poor, bad news is it's in the nebula. I have it doing 1/3 on bases. You might want to roll that back some, but leave some on bases. Nebula planet that it is, it will need bases.
Kitties 7 votes Abstain, Psilons 3 votes the Humans, Sakkras 3 votes for us? really? Bugs 3 votes the Humans, Humans 8 votes themselves, Us, 10 votes abstain. If your scoring at home, we have 10 of 34 votes. If we can turn the Kitties against them, they can't win.
I dispatch the final colship to the corner system, but do nothing else
NOTES
No more dealing with scouts or colships
We are now starting to generate reserves, so spread some arround to stand up the new colonies, especially the non hostiles.
Techwise we see the following:
With Robotics III being a big growth stunter, I dialed it way down. It's going to hit soon anyway. Fusion bombs is down to single click waiting to hit any second now. When it does, please give weapons more spending, especially if we have a missile. Edit: Actually, I guess I saved before I sawped the extra from Constr to Force Fields. Please swap those 2 ammounts when you start your turn Therlun. (Just click FF until it reaches 1%)
I had been spending the extra on construction for Auto Repair, but just switched to Force Fields so we can find out if we have Planetary shields or not.
Finally 2 last pics for the Lurkers
Maybe Therlun will make us one of his cool map mods for this last one either before or after his turn
REMINDER ITS 10 TURNS EACH TURN FROM NOW ON
ROSTER
Maniac <- Just Played
Therlun <- Up now
Zed-F <- On Deck
dathon <- In the hole
AlanSHB <- In the Clubhouse
And finally, here is The Save
-Maniac
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
To the new posts
@ Factoid - Yeah, IF you have IC, npg isn't too big a deal. I guess that came off as get both of them?
Only one is needed (and is in the bag). I can't find anything to differ with with any of that stuff you mention.
Missile ships are really good on offense, less so on defense, but then thats why we build bases right?
@ Alan - Selentines spreadsheat is in a older thread at the RB forum, named something like Moo Spreadsheat. Get it there (I'm too lazy to link you).
Yes, the AI does look at bombers as a threat to ships. That strategy of yours works great right up to the point when the AI brings more ship to ship to the party than you do...... It would scare me, but I've never tried it so I can't say how good it is.
Ally with the Kitties? Why would we do that? We don't have to Ally to get them to declare. Maybe nap with them... In fact, nap's all round might not be a bad idea atm. I think we should discuss that.
As soon as the cats get contact with the humans, we can probably get one of the 2 to declare war on the other, and I think we probably should (unless anyone has problems with this feature being "broken" that is).
I tried to do this as a PS but apparently I had too many images that way
-Maniac
@ Factoid - Yeah, IF you have IC, npg isn't too big a deal. I guess that came off as get both of them?
Only one is needed (and is in the bag). I can't find anything to differ with with any of that stuff you mention. Missile ships are really good on offense, less so on defense, but then thats why we build bases right?
@ Alan - Selentines spreadsheat is in a older thread at the RB forum, named something like Moo Spreadsheat. Get it there (I'm too lazy to link you).
Yes, the AI does look at bombers as a threat to ships. That strategy of yours works great right up to the point when the AI brings more ship to ship to the party than you do...... It would scare me, but I've never tried it so I can't say how good it is.
Ally with the Kitties? Why would we do that? We don't have to Ally to get them to declare. Maybe nap with them... In fact, nap's all round might not be a bad idea atm. I think we should discuss that.
As soon as the cats get contact with the humans, we can probably get one of the 2 to declare war on the other, and I think we probably should (unless anyone has problems with this feature being "broken" that is).
I tried to do this as a PS but apparently I had too many images that way
-Maniac
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Mrrshans a major power and Psilons insignificant. 
Oops, nap time for me. Naps all around. 
- Sirian
Oops, nap time for me.
Naps all around. - Sirian
I was suggesting allying to get them contact, then start the war. I'm not sure it's a better method than letting them find each other naturally--I know AI that are allied tend to adopt the relations of the race that already has contact. ** I don't know if that works for the human player as well.
I'm only interested in this as a Controlled method of introducing them. In any event it's not immediately necessary, as long as they don't have contact the humans can't win the vote, so might as well focus on the economy...oh and start the plans for the Grand Fleet of the Republic--we'll need it presently. If only to crush the psilons and take their engines.
**Having the psilons join the war from across the galaxy against my humans at _wary_ and fading fast because of an erratic meklar that attacked me
taught me about this neat feature the hard way
I'm only interested in this as a Controlled method of introducing them. In any event it's not immediately necessary, as long as they don't have contact the humans can't win the vote, so might as well focus on the economy...oh and start the plans for the Grand Fleet of the Republic--we'll need it presently. If only to crush the psilons and take their engines.
**Having the psilons join the war from across the galaxy against my humans at _wary_ and fading fast because of an erratic meklar that attacked me
taught me about this neat feature the hard way
Therlun
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2004
- Messages
- 39
#Dear Diary,
today im in charge of the Empire again!
It has made quiet some progress...
I made some minor adjustments on some planets, and to the research teams, but there was nothing special to write about.
#Dear Diary,
Today i was "surprised" with this message:
A colony ship arrived a Dunantis. An ultra poor planet, far away from our core, and right between two big empires. All the colonies in its near have still little population too...
A poor planet is quiet some work, but an ultra poor, far away, without the chance to get a good pop-start...
I settled it anyway, so that i at least save the upkeep for the Colony Ship. But thats all good i can find in this situation....
#Another day, another year.
Some progresses in research were made, with damage control and fusion bomb beeing developed.
The choices for Construction were .. nothing special.
I chose Improved industry 6. Perhaps we can finish it before we get robotics III...
From the weapon tree i took scatter packs, as theese could come in handy if anyone will attack a colony of us. (one of the "real" colonies that is, not that ultra poor crap half a galaxy away...)
I also ordered 20 million silicoids to move to Ukko, from where they can be send to our soon-to-be-build colonies in the south.
AND i switched research priorities, focussing on construction.
Boy what a year! I need a nap...
#Dear Diary,
i wonder if it will always be that way. One year i have more then enough work, in others there happens absolutely nothing.
Just to give any order a few industrial adjustments were made, and parts of the reserve were distributed.
A terran planet was discovered, but a klackon colony ships was already on its way to the system...
Ahh ... i nearly forgot! There is another dirtball in our empire...
#Dear Diary,
a fight took place! One of our colony ships arrived at a system meeting a Klackon frigate!
The ship closed in for a fight...
I ordered the colony ship to stay. If it would survive it could settle the world, if not ... we have enough colony ships anyway.
Luckily the frigate was armed with missles, and bad ones too.
Hiding in an asteroid field the colony ship took little damage before the frigate retreated.
Therlun
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2004
- Messages
- 39
#Dear Diary,
its a boring year again...
I made a little bargain with the humans, bying deep space scanners.
#Dear Diary,
I'm in the news! Ok the whole empire is...
However, this will complicate the dealing with the other races! And if i consider that it would be possible to avoid the other races' fears about our domination by simply not colonizing two ultra poors, and a ize 15 colony....
Oh my....
#Dear Diary,
My scientists earn their money.
Two breakthroughs again! One is robotics III though, while the improved industries 6 still needs a few years...
I decided to not invest in new factories, in the hope that improved industry will hit soon.
The other tech is range 7, and the succes in propulsion made a much needed device possible.
#Another year, and the last one too....
Nothing special in the whole empire. No good-bye party either!!
the final research orders in hope for engines and improved 6:
I ordered a carthograph to do something for his money...
Map 1
Therlun
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2004
- Messages
- 39
as you might read between the lines i think colonising those ultra poors was a bad idea...
far away and... now ...ULTRA PORR !! gosh
i seldom play silicoids so maybe om just not used to this kind of expansion. but i think the game is already won.
i dont see any of the other empires beeing able to stop us from now on...
i did not even vbother to tell you about half the dozen colonies we founded.
is this really a hard game? in my normal hard games you mostly dont have half the fleet bar even with a big military, and now we can give the ais competition with a few scouts in that area? (i had to laugh too when i saw it, although we are not 2nd anymore. )
i made three different map-styles, but nothing was completely ... satisfying for me. (i like the first one i made the most though.)
in my 9th turn robotics III hit, and i decided to give improved industrials 6 another few rounds...(only one of which i play(ed) though)
finally we get the chance for some engine too!
here is the save:
->save<-
far away and... now ...ULTRA PORR !! gosh
i seldom play silicoids so maybe om just not used to this kind of expansion. but i think the game is already won.
i dont see any of the other empires beeing able to stop us from now on...
i did not even vbother to tell you about half the dozen colonies we founded.
is this really a hard game? in my normal hard games you mostly dont have half the fleet bar even with a big military, and now we can give the ais competition with a few scouts in that area? (i had to laugh too when i saw it, although we are not 2nd anymore.
)i made three different map-styles, but nothing was completely ... satisfying for me. (i like the first one i made the most though.)
in my 9th turn robotics III hit, and i decided to give improved industrials 6 another few rounds...(only one of which i play(ed) though)
finally we get the chance for some engine too!
here is the save:
->save<-
We have Missiles! 
And we have ENGINES!!!
![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
We're looking good guys! Haven't had a chance to post the last few turns, but I've been watching. Good job to all!!
Ultra Poor's aren't good for production, but they are good for population towards the vote (or in this case, staving off a loss there) and Marines
Good call on delaying factories until Industrial 6 comes in, since you said it was close (I haven't looked at the save).
Looks like it's going to be interesting when it comes back to me.
-dathon
And we have ENGINES!!!
We're looking good guys! Haven't had a chance to post the last few turns, but I've been watching. Good job to all!!
Ultra Poor's aren't good for production, but they are good for population towards the vote (or in this case, staving off a loss there) and Marines
Good call on delaying factories until Industrial 6 comes in, since you said it was close (I haven't looked at the save).
Looks like it's going to be interesting when it comes back to me.
-dathon
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Silicoids get out to fast starts. It's what they do. The least secure lead is one held by Silicoids, though. All their advantages erode as tech progresses. I wouldn't count the chickens just yet.
- Sirian
- Sirian
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
Wow, looks like a VERY nice turn Therlun
I like the holding off factories in the core considering constr is about to pop.
As dathon pointed out, the Ultra Poors are mainly just there to hold voters considering how long it will take (think longer than this game's going to last) to max factories on 2 huge ultra poors that far away and settled this late by a hand full of silicoids. The alternative, though, was to let the kitties grab em. I thought about that, but the only argument for it was if it gave the Kitties contact with the Humans, which didn't. Now, if we do get into it with the Kitties, they are likely to prioritize attacking these 2 weak, worthless dirtballs giving our real planets some breathing room.
I'm not sure if I like trading the Humans spores for DSS or not. DSS is nice and a cpu tech which helps, but spores makes me nervous. If they spore one of our planets, even if they don't wipe it out, thats doubly harmful to our slow pop growing race. Of course, this just means we'll research antidote if it's there, after which we should trade spores to anyone who wants them. That's the only thing I see that I would have done diffrent though.
@ All - As Sirian said, it's not over yet, though since we now lead the uni in production BEFORE building robotics factories, and now that we lead in pop and are second in tech (yeppers, we are), it is in the category of ours to lose.
Right now is a very precarious time for us though, as we need to start working up a defense strategy asap. Yea that we have a bomb, a gun, a gropo, and soon a missile and engine, but Crapola that we have no PDS, Armor, or PLANETARY SHIELDS
However, looking at others techs...
The Kitties and Psilons are going nuts on computers. We've got no realistic hope of stealing from them any time soon.
On the plus side, The Klackons and Sakkra, our erratic chums, have nothing worth stealing except Mercs (which is worth stealing even with scatter packs about to hit), but also are falling badly behind in tech.
As for the humans, I wana point out something. If you open the save and look at the Human's tech, I wana point out something rather alarming.
Not that I think anyone had any illusions we were going to attack the humans soon but ..... Planetary Shield X Combine that with Shield V and our fusion bombs are about this close to vaporware against them allready. Stingers ARE vaporware vs their planets even if we do get them. I'm not criticizing Alan's choice, as it's unusual for Fusion Bombs to be obsolete this early, and they AREN'T obsolete vs anyone else (no one else have anything beyond Class III and no planetary shields).
But wait, there's more. Our only missile is about to be Scatter V. The humans like to build large ships, and therefore tend to shield them rather well. V.S. Shield V, Scatters are allready WORSE than MERCS. Same damage, but less acuracy. And if they get Shield VI or VII next, they are completely WORTHLESS . Again, agains't all the other races, we've got no worries as Scatters will pwn them.
Our npg's still have some effect vs Shield 5, but it's not a very good ratio once they get sheild 5. And once they get shield 7, you might as well not even bother (shield 9 makes them totally worthless of course)
Again, I don't think anyone was thinking of taking on the Humans any time soon, and I'm not trying to be alarmist here, but I thought I should mention how important it is that we try to stay buddies with them right now.....
THIS JUST IN: The Humans WILL trade Planetary V for Robotics III. The cost is steep, but..... I think I'd pull the trigger on that.
-Maniac
I like the holding off factories in the core considering constr is about to pop.
As dathon pointed out, the Ultra Poors are mainly just there to hold voters considering how long it will take (think longer than this game's going to last) to max factories on 2 huge ultra poors that far away and settled this late by a hand full of silicoids. The alternative, though, was to let the kitties grab em. I thought about that, but the only argument for it was if it gave the Kitties contact with the Humans, which didn't. Now, if we do get into it with the Kitties, they are likely to prioritize attacking these 2 weak, worthless dirtballs giving our real planets some breathing room.
I'm not sure if I like trading the Humans spores for DSS or not. DSS is nice and a cpu tech which helps, but spores makes me nervous. If they spore one of our planets, even if they don't wipe it out, thats doubly harmful to our slow pop growing race. Of course, this just means we'll research antidote if it's there, after which we should trade spores to anyone who wants them
. That's the only thing I see that I would have done diffrent though.@ All - As Sirian said, it's not over yet, though since we now lead the uni in production BEFORE building robotics factories, and now that we lead in pop and are second in tech (yeppers, we are), it is in the category of ours to lose.
Right now is a very precarious time for us though, as we need to start working up a defense strategy asap. Yea that we have a bomb, a gun, a gropo, and soon a missile and engine, but Crapola that we have no PDS, Armor, or PLANETARY SHIELDS
However, looking at others techs...
The Kitties and Psilons are going nuts on computers. We've got no realistic hope of stealing from them any time soon.
On the plus side, The Klackons and Sakkra, our erratic chums, have nothing worth stealing except Mercs (which is worth stealing even with scatter packs about to hit), but also are falling badly behind in tech.
As for the humans, I wana point out something. If you open the save and look at the Human's tech, I wana point out something rather alarming.
Not that I think anyone had any illusions we were going to attack the humans soon but ..... Planetary Shield X
Combine that with Shield V and our fusion bombs are about this close to vaporware against them allready. Stingers ARE vaporware vs their planets even if we do get them. I'm not criticizing Alan's choice, as it's unusual for Fusion Bombs to be obsolete this early, and they AREN'T obsolete vs anyone else (no one else have anything beyond Class III and no planetary shields).But wait, there's more. Our only missile is about to be Scatter V. The humans like to build large ships, and therefore tend to shield them rather well. V.S. Shield V, Scatters are allready WORSE than MERCS. Same damage, but less acuracy. And if they get Shield VI or VII next, they are completely WORTHLESS
. Again, agains't all the other races, we've got no worries as Scatters will pwn them.Our npg's still have some effect vs Shield 5, but it's not a very good ratio once they get sheild 5. And once they get shield 7, you might as well not even bother (shield 9 makes them totally worthless of course)
Again, I don't think anyone was thinking of taking on the Humans any time soon, and I'm not trying to be alarmist here, but I thought I should mention how important it is that we try to stay buddies with them right now.....
THIS JUST IN: The Humans WILL trade Planetary V for Robotics III. The cost is steep, but..... I think I'd pull the trigger on that.
-Maniac
I'm working on the assumption that our "targets" are the sakkra and the klackons.
They're erratic, woefully behind in tech, and they both have terran homeworlds....*Cue the imperial march*
The humans and the kitties are destined for combat--well with a little help
By the time we're done with the NW we should have something that can punch through the humans. I'm against trading RC3 to the humans. If it was either of the erratics, in a heartbeat--we'll be invading those factories in time, go ahead and build them for us. I'd have to think fairly hard about the shan, although with their technologist bent I'd probably be ok with it. They'll pick them up fast enough on their own that denying them doesn't seem worthwhile. The Humans are diplo tho so denying them RC3 could mean decades of lost production, which neatly evens their slightly larger production base out vs the more advanced ships of the kitties to make for a long, draining war.....Presuming we get them thinking that direction of course.
Alan
They're erratic, woefully behind in tech, and they both have terran homeworlds....*Cue the imperial march*
The humans and the kitties are destined for combat--well with a little help
By the time we're done with the NW we should have something that can punch through the humans. I'm against trading RC3 to the humans. If it was either of the erratics, in a heartbeat--we'll be invading those factories in time, go ahead and build them for us. I'd have to think fairly hard about the shan, although with their technologist bent I'd probably be ok with it. They'll pick them up fast enough on their own that denying them doesn't seem worthwhile. The Humans are diplo tho so denying them RC3 could mean decades of lost production, which neatly evens their slightly larger production base out vs the more advanced ships of the kitties to make for a long, draining war.....Presuming we get them thinking that direction of course.
Alan
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
Well, the way I look at it, it doesn't matter how much production they may lose in the long run if WE lose production because our worlds get slaged .
Right now Hyper-X toting ships are a serious threat to our planets, and basiclly everyone has that or mercs. Heck, even the Sakkra's Neutron Blasters are a threat. This doesn't even start to take into consideration that most people have fusion bombs.
I'm lothe to ever start a war when my planets lack reasonable shielding, which currently they do (at least until the end, where there is no defense against the high end bombs -- neutornium bobms *shudder*). Also, don't forget, just because we don't want to fight the humans doesn't mean they won't decide they'd like to fight us. If they do that, we can't get the shields anywhere.
Also, the Humans are Honorable, so wiping out annother race doubles their sudden dislike, probably pushing them all the way to Feud. Odds of them not declaring before relations improve from there = low.
I doubit the humans go w/o getting robotics much longer anyhow. The Psilons allready have Robotics IV and the Kitties allready have Robotics III.
If there was somone else to get it from, I would, but currently there isn't, and their may not be.
As far as Human vs Kitty war, the Humans have the Production advantage over the cats as well as the waring tech one. Given enough time, I can't see the humans failing to overcome the Kitties.
If others disagree with this, I've no problem with not making that trade. This is simply my full reasoning for why I think we should.
-Maniac
. Right now Hyper-X toting ships are a serious threat to our planets, and basiclly everyone has that or mercs. Heck, even the Sakkra's Neutron Blasters are a threat. This doesn't even start to take into consideration that most people have fusion bombs.
I'm lothe to ever start a war when my planets lack reasonable shielding, which currently they do (at least until the end, where there is no defense against the high end bombs -- neutornium bobms *shudder*). Also, don't forget, just because we don't want to fight the humans doesn't mean they won't decide they'd like to fight us. If they do that, we can't get the shields anywhere.
Also, the Humans are Honorable, so wiping out annother race doubles their sudden dislike, probably pushing them all the way to Feud. Odds of them not declaring before relations improve from there = low.
I doubit the humans go w/o getting robotics much longer anyhow. The Psilons allready have Robotics IV and the Kitties allready have Robotics III.
If there was somone else to get it from, I would, but currently there isn't, and their may not be.
As far as Human vs Kitty war, the Humans have the Production advantage over the cats as well as the waring tech one. Given enough time, I can't see the humans failing to overcome the Kitties.
If others disagree with this, I've no problem with not making that trade. This is simply my full reasoning for why I think we should.
-Maniac
Giving them range 7 might get them contact with the kitties, ie, targets other than us and our intended victims. I don't plan on genociding the sakkra/klackons--just taking 2 planets or so from each. Homeworld plus best world, then let them sit on their zoos. I don't see a reason to deny the humans range if they'll trade shields for it
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
So would I, but the Humans wouldn't take anything but Robotics III when I loadede it up and asked.... interesting.
-Maniac
OK, I just loaded it again and got the same choices you got for it. This is bizzare. I thought they allways took the same things or not
Nevermind trading them Robotics III then. Screw that, trade them Range 7 for it IMHO.
(Off to load the game several times to see what's up with this deal)
Edit II: OK, fascinating. I loaded it up 10 times and asked them. 8 times it gave me the 3 tech list, the other 2 they would only take Robotics III . If I turn down the trade the initial time, 10 times out of 10 they would only take Robotics III on the 2nd asking!!!
-Maniac
OK, I just loaded it again and got the same choices you got for it. This is bizzare. I thought they allways took the same things or not
Nevermind trading them Robotics III then. Screw that, trade them Range 7 for it IMHO.
(Off to load the game several times to see what's up with this deal)
Edit II: OK, fascinating. I loaded it up 10 times and asked them. 8 times it gave me the 3 tech list, the other 2 they would only take Robotics III
. If I turn down the trade the initial time, 10 times out of 10 they would only take Robotics III on the 2nd asking!!!Similar threads
