RBO- OSG4 - Belligerent Bears with Beams

I'll grab r6 if it comes up on my turns, but if stabilizers don't benefit transports their utility to us seems lessened. We can't build the traditional stabilizer vessel, (a small 2 move to planet bomber) and I've never been impressed by them on ships designed for dogfighting with anyone other than alkari.

Unless you were suggesting we should grab them as a good "Currency" tech. The AI does tend to overvalue them and it might be worthwhile to trade them around for goodies.

:mischief:
 
Pre-game notes: My priority for the next ten turns is to colonize as much of the frontier as possible. I count a whopping 8 planets within our grasp. Having the Silicoids in range is both good and bad. Good that we have somebody we can beat up on, but I worry that we may lose the Tundra next to Toranor to them, as it is the last on my list being the smallest world within reach.

2370: Lyae is almost done with factory construction, so I switch it to an LR colony. I would have sent the col ship heading to Crius to the artifacts world instead, as it is in range (7 parsecs away), but hopefully the ship from Lyae can nab it in time. On the upside, we have scouts in place on the frontier for immediate scouting :thumbsup: Research is switched completely to IIT7, and shifted to Maretta; Gion will be building a normal col ship to land Kulthos.

2371: zzzz

IBT: Exis founded. GNN reports the galactic census:

census.jpg


Hmm, we're in second, which means we're eligible for the vote. Let's hope that the Sakkra haven't met a lot of people yet, as we have no contacts, and there is a good chance that all of our settling will kick off the elections.

2372: Founding Exis brought us into contact with the Erratic ( :eek: ) technologist ( :eek: :eek: ) Silicoids. Who also happen to have a rather large empire.

silicoid_empire.jpg


The only way that the Sakkra can be larger is if they have most of the cluster to the NE of the rocks (boxed). This will probably be a game of three superpowers, and 3 third-world AI's. I decide against trade with the rocks at this point. Being erratic, it doesn't matter if relations are good, just so long as they aren't hostile. Plus, we need to grow as fast as possible. An LR colony and LR tundra are completed; they will be heading for Vulcan and Ajax, respectively.

IBT: Crius settled.

2373: Minor adjustments

2374: LR col ship completes at Lyae, bound for Reticuli. I should be able to max Lyae in two turns, after which it will become a shipyard for some laser
fighters to defend the frontier.

2375: Went ahead and designed our fighter. MK I/Warp 2/Duralloy.

IBT: Vulcan founded, bringing no new contacts (as expected). The blue star in the center of the map has asteroids.

2376: Tundra completed at Ursa, bound for Tao. With all planets accounted for, Ursa starts building fighters. I'm going to build fighters here and at Lyae for the rest of my turn; Alan can decide when to swap over one of them to research.

IBT: The blue stars N of Crius in the nebula are, from left to right, a Tundra 45, and a Steppe 80. Surprisingly, the Steppe isn't colonized, given its proximity to all those yellow stars in the NW corner. The white star to the NW of the soon-to-be-ours artifacts world is a Dead, 50, ultra rich. The yellow directly N of the blue star on our frontier (Regulus) is a Tundra 45. Holy cow, what a bountiful start we've been handed. Ajax is founded [party]


2377: Last of the colony ships complete. Gion maxes out and goes on research duty.

IBT: The artifacts world is founded.

2378: Minor adjustments

IBT: The Silicoids chase our scout over Toranor off with 4 large warships. Normally I don't leave scouts in orbit over AI worlds, but I in this case, I wanted advance notice if a Silicoid col ship was moving forward. The yellow between Crius and Reticuli is a size 55 Arid.

2379: As the NW appears to be unpopulated, I switch Lyae over to a col ship for that newly discoverd Arid. Ursa also gets shifted to LR col ship duty to nab that size 80 Steppe next to the nebula. Mobas is switched to fighter production.

IBT: nada

Post Game
Well, looks like we've got a ridiculouly easy draw of this game. We're on course to nab 1/3 of the galaxy uncontested, including a decent artifacts and ultra rich world. Is this enough challenge to make it worth playing out, even with the variant restrictions? Guess we should have gone Impossible for this one. :( Weigh in with your thoughts. Situation-wise, we have transports flying out to populate our new gains. The last three worlds on the frontier have ships en route. IIT7 is almost mature, and should help the growth of our new acquisitions substaintially.

2380_map.jpg


Save Game 2380
 
dathon78 said:
On the upside, we have scouts in place on the frontier for immediate scouting :thumbsup:

yeah thx to ... me. ;)
i made sure that we have them there.
not only normal scouts. no! six highly advanced warp2 armed ones!! :)

im also worried about the challenge the game will provide, but i think its too early to say anyithing specific right now...
 
Does anyone else value automated repair more than industrial tech 7? Huge ships with automated repair tend to win a lot of battles, you don't need a lot of them, either, which is a good thing as they take a while to build, but are worth it, imho.
 
Automated repair is a huge advantage in the right situation. It does nothing against large stacks of bases or missile boats, or any sitaution where the opposition can do more than 135 damage to your ships (15% of 900, typical armor at the point when the ships are introduced). Plus, if you have no racial production bonuses, and no RC tech, they take SO LONG to build, and you have to tie up your best planets to do it, which can severely crimp research efforts at this stage in the game.

I believe IIT7 was the right choice in this situation. As Zed pointed out at some point (don't know if it was here, or at the Realms Beyond forums), the name of the game is GROWTH CURVE. We just grabbed a LOT of planets, and are going to be building in the neighborhood of 1000 factories. Assuming we had IIT9 (can't remember), that's a savings of 2 per factory, or 2000RP :eek:, plus the savings in opportunity cost of being able to swap from factory construction to other projects (like going to war while our opponents are weaker :hammer: ) sooner.

Now we will undoubtedly want to back up for auto repair at some point soon, as huge, 2-space gunships will probably be our only method of base busting with this variant, but we are not in any position to be building such ships yet, so no reason to slow our growth curve to pick up the tech now. What can wait should.

-dathon
 
Got it, should be able to play and post fairly quickly. Presuming it's mostly hitting next turn and shuffling colships and colonists about....If someone gets upity I may take a bit longer thinking about ground war/defense etc. I'm definitely going to offer to trade a minimal amount with the rocks during my turn, just in case we kick off the elections by settling half the galaxy....
 
Pre-Game analysis

We're looking good. Although the fighters are an unfortunate necessity I agree we need something to discourage the silicoids on the east if they get uppity, I forsee my turn after this one being the great fleet building experience again. But for this turn it looks like expansion is the name of the game. With that in mind I take a look at our tech positions. Woah, full out on IIT7 eh? That's a reasonable tech to crash given the number of factories we'll be building in the near future, but it's going to be expensive to crash it. After it hits I'll be equalizing tech. I'd love +30 terra right now (we've got 12 worlds/canidates below size 60, and even the UP's get a good return on it just growing more pop to fill up other places.) There's some yellows in the north that aren't scouted, I'll take care of that.

2380-2384- First open a small trade agreement with the sils just in case they want to vote for us. Second send scout to the (terran 95) yellow in the NW. Finally Play with sliders some to optimize factory building vs population growth. I decide to buy some pop on maretta (our ultra poor) and send off a big chunk of her population to worlds that have factories idle. The alkari try to scout our eastern front. This repeats every turn as they desperately want to find out what's at the asteroids. :lol: We should give the scout a medal, he single handedly holds off these scouting expeditions by flying around in the asteroids at warp 2 vs their warp 1 scouts/colships/etc.

2384 - Settling one of Dathon's colonies ibt sets off the vote and it's us vs lizards. We have 6 of 28 votes. Liz have 8 meks have 3 they vote lizard. Sil have 6 and alkari have 5, they abstain. I throw us in with the lizard for possible brownies since the silicoids are being piloted by lotto. Also on this IBT the sakkra poke around up north, but I run around the asteroids to avoid the 2 shots of the nuclear missle frigate and it retreats.

2384-2389 Continue settling. IIT Still hasn't hit. :cry:

IBT - We make it to 17 planets and get the GNN outstripping the other races message. We then win the lotto and the rocks declare. Luckily dathan and I have built up a thin line of laser fighters on the eastern front to deter the alkari scouting, so we're not totally defenseless. They seem to have 1 medium missle ship and 2 large missle ships with no obvious guns as their design so if you decide to build bases we need at least 2 to hold the planet and if we get PS5 we're probably safe for a bit. Note we have a blockade in the works for the rich inferno in the SE (red star)

Sorry I don't have pictures this time, I had them on USB key to post from the office, but didn't have the turnlog. Now I'm home without the USB key of course....Some days I feel I'd lose my head if my neck wasn't keeping track of it for me automaticly. :crazyeye:
 
2390: Ok, the Silicoids may have declared war, but we don't know yet if it's a real war or a phony one. We have no knowledge of their tech levels, other than that they are way beyond us. I dial up a single click of spying so we can at least see what they have someday. Laser fighters probably won't even put a dent in them and are likely useless other than to dodge their missles and force a stalemate. We need a lot of tech right now, but we are still expanding.

Hmm, strategy for this war: We are bears. They are rocks. Our strength is ground invasion, their weak point is pop growth. Sounds like our strategy should be to send in the troops! I would much rather fight over their worlds than ours, that way our military strength (or lack thereof) is less of an issue. We only have range 4, which hurts, but that should give us access to the closest Silicoid planets anyway. I start coordinating an invasion of Toranor, which is poor but fairly large. I don't care if we can't hold it, that's not the point; the point is to get the Silicoids back on their heels rather than attacking our colonies. Hopefully their fleet won't be at Toranor when our troops arrive. Several of our planets on the Silicoid front start on force pop growth to get more troops for further invasions.

Meanwhile, I keep expanding in the north. We are seriously lacking scouts to explore the northern corner. I have to send a colony ship at Regulus to an unexplored star or else have it sitting around idle for lack of any known good planets to send it to. I may have to do the same with additional colony ships we construct, we have so many of them being built without having sent out advance scouts, or even having many scouts in the area to send! We should have more scouts and fewer fighters; don't our scouts have guns on them too, anyway? With the only significant difference between the two being a Mk I computer versus extra range, I'd rather have the scouts. They are much cheaper to build anyway. Have we met anyone in the NW corner yet? Alan mentioned Alkari, so maybe they are up here. Our ultrarich spends a turn building scouts since building more factories right now would just result in them idling.

2391: We start researching Jammer I, Shield II, and NPG. Our best researchable beam is Graviton beams, which will be a respectable fighter weapon later once we have enough propulsion tech to miniaturize the energy requirement. However, NPGs come in at 1/5 the price, are also a good fighter weapon, and we need something better than lasers.

2392: Antares and Uxmai settled. I scramble to find pop to send to those worlds. We are stretched thin up north. We scout Proxima (Radiated) and Tauri (Barren). Production of colony ships largely swapped to Tundra 2X, which are more flexible in these situations, if a bit more expensive. We have plenty of regular colony ships right now anyway.

2393: Discover Whynil (Inferno) and Rana, an Ocean 80 Ultrapoor in the NW. Send a colony ship to the latter. We now have several colony ships outbound to unknown planets, but if we run across Orion, we can afford to lose one. The Toranor invasion force is assembled and enroute, consisting of 70 transports full of grunts. The Silicoids have 80 pop on the planet. Unless their fleet is in orbit when the transports arrive, we should have no problem occupying the planet. I start assembling another invasion force for Phyco, a size 60 minimal Silicoid world.

2394: IIT7 finally comes in, our only next choice is IIT6. Yuck. Apparently we should have chosen reduced waste 60% last time. I face a difficult choice, get a tech we don't need in order to progress in the tree or go back for something that would be moderately useful. I elect to go back for reduced waste 60%. Automated repair is another good option but that can wait; we are nowhere close to building ARS huges right now.

Oh. My. Goodness. We discover Drakka, a Steppe 50 Artifact world in the far NW corner. And we are the first to discover it. And we get... soil enrichment! Woot! You can't ask for better than that. Fertile worlds everywhere when we are in the middle of a ground war with the rocks? Happy day!

In other news, we discover Meklon at a yellow star due east of Aurora. Our colony ship retreats.

2395: Discover Meklar at the red and purple stars north of Meklon.

2396: Our invasion of Toranor was unsuccessful. Some Silicoid larges made it to the planet in time to destroy most of the transports attacking the planet. 20 made it through, and did a reasonable amount of damage, but the Silicoids have personal deflectors and Ion rifles, cancelling out our innate advantage. We are only up by +5 due to Duralloy, not nearly enough, and our invasion attempt at Phyco will probably also fail as a result. This is still our best strategy, but we will need bigger planets able to send more troops to pull it off -- or else a fleet capable of obtaining space superiority. Soil enrichment will certainly help matters.

2397: Discover Thrax, a Barren world orbiting a green star north of Meklon. It is also occupied with Meklar. Our ships move on.

2398: ECM Jammer I finally pops. We have a choice of RC III and BC III. We are still expanding, and not ready for RC III yet. We go for BC III with the intention of coming back for RC III when we are done. We settle Drakka (Steppe 50 Artifacts) and Rana (Ocean 80 UPoor).

Ajax, our Tundra URich, is maxed. However, we don't have any ships worth building right now. I pump reserves instead, with the intention that we can use those funds to grow our other colonies faster.

2399: We colonize Tauri and get contact with the Meklar. We also discover an asteroid in the far north. We own the entire western side of the map (or will soon) but making an end run around the Meklar to snag hostiles in the core looks dubious. The Meklar are Xenophobic, but I establish a minimum trading agreement with them anyway. Once they get contact with the Silicoids, war seems likely.

2400: Our transports attempting to attack Phyco have similar problems penetrating the planetary defenses. The problem is, when attacking in lots of groups of a few transports, the missle bases get shots at each group in turn, multiplying the number of attacks they get against our transports. Only attacks with large numbers of transports get through. Thus, coordinating invasions becomes trickier than normal. We still don't have enough tech to field a credible fleet but hopefully this will pick up soon now that our core worlds are on research rather than colony ship building.

The vote saw the Sakkra (8) voting for the Silicoid allies (8). We abstained with 10, as did the Meklars (4). The Alkari (2) voted for us, as they are at war with the Silicoids. The vote doesn't look terribly dangerous to us in the near future.

Summary: So far the Silicoids haven't responded to our invasion attempts, but that could change anytime now, especially considering our fleet power is diminishing as we settle worlds, reducing the number of active colony ships, which are most of our fleet strength. However, laser popguns are not the best answer at the moment. We should wait for at least NPGs before trying to build an offensive fleet; now that our core worlds are on research, it should not take long. The Silicoids currently only have Class II shields so NPG attackers can still do damage to bases on the surface. The Silicoids have Merculite missles for their bases, and we don't have enough defense to get around that, so fighters are probably still our best option for the moment.

Our attempts at ground invasion fell flat to start with, but were instructive and probably useful none-the-less. We don't have quite the ground invasion advantage I expected, and I didn't account properly for the presence of defenses on enemy worlds, so my error there. Nevertheless I continue to see ground invasions as potentially viable in the not-too-distant future.

The save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/osg4_2400.zip
 
Interesting.

The sakkra (red) were up north during my turns, must have been a quick alliance with the meklar. The alkari are somewhere in the south east. Behind the sillicoids perhaps, or maybe just north east of them. Did we build any missle bases on the front lines? If not, that should be a priority. We have scatter V which should be a beating vs the sillicoids max shields of 2 and will definitely prevent silly losses of planets to an unexpected transport arrival.

Sorry about the lack of excess scouts. I thought there were 5 scout 1s available in the north, but they might have been on the second line by the time you started looking for them. Soil enrichment and scatter V is ridiculous luck on the artifact pulls.

All in all the variant seems to be succeeding in increasing the difficulty, I'm fairly sure a pack of medium sized scatter 5 ships would make this a walk, but without them it's going to be tense. Did the silicoid ships have lasers/gatlings or something more serious?
 
They had up to hard beams as far as weapons tech goes, but they didn't send any ships our way and I didn't send any theirs, so no idea what they're packing. It might be worth building a scanner ship just to see what their current designs are. Regardless, I am not scared of the Silicoids. They cannot take worlds from us at a significant pace, especially once we soil enrich them. Even if one or two of our systems wind up being hot potatoes for a bit, it won't matter in the long run. Terraforming +30 should be in the not too distant future which will make things even rougher for the Silicoids trying to invade, and easier for us to get stacks of transports past their defenses.

Remember we can't (read won't) put missles on ships, so no medium scatter 5 ships. I am not so keen on spending a ton on missle bases at the moment, but it probably wouldn't be a horrible idea to get a couple up on border worlds. So far I haven't bothered as those worlds are still concentrating on things like factories and soil enrichment for the most part. Some of them might be ready to pause infrastructure for a missle base or two. However, if the Silicoids are heavily into their own missle boats, we can't really rely on them in the short term as an effective defense, as we need better shields.
 
Hi all,

I just have to say how much I like Zed-F's last report. The clarity of thought and expression is admirable. I particularly appreciate the several times he lists intentions to help following people.

IRL I am just starting a contract to maintain/further develop a software suite that has been "orphaned" since the creator left for greener pastures. I am really thinking hard about intentions at present, "why are things done this way and not that way?" etc. I hope to leave things well documented to match the current clear but not well documented code. The creator of course didn't need documentation...

In any case, keep up the good work y'all, I am enjoying reading all your reports. :goodjob:

Cheers,
Factoid.
 
I think we should assume Maniac will need to be skipped until further notice, since he hasn't posted since his last one notifying us of a death in the family, and I haven't seen any sign of him over at RB either. That will mean Dathon is up.
 
Busy weekend, so I didn't have a chance to check the forums. Looks like we are in a good position. Soil from an artifacts world??? Why can't I get this kind of luck in my games :gripe: :lol:

Got it, will play and post later today.

-dathon
 
2400: Looking around, pop is very thin up north as Zed noted. I don't see any use in trying more invasions of Silicoid worlds until we get soil online, and some serious pop going. Re-adjust a few sliders per my tastes (just like everybody else does at the start of their turns I'm sure :mischief: ).

IBT: Class II comes in, our only option is Class III. The col ship up north of Meklar space finds an Arid 60, which we of course promptly plant our flag on. This puts in in contact with the Sakkra:

osg4_sakkra.jpg
osg4_sakkra_map.jpg


The Confederation of Tree Huggers :lol: The number of alliances is mildly distrubing, particularly the Silicoid. Minimal trade is started to maintain our already Relaxed relations.

2401: Fun with Slider Adjustments. Dispatch some pop towards the north to fill out our new acquistions. While we couldn't really do anything about it, lack of faster engines is going to really slow our growth up there.

IBT: Beta Ceti colonized up north.

2402: zzz

2403: Rocks have sent their first offensive probe, a single large, heading for I believe Exis. Hyboria has maxed factories, and a transport will max the population next turn, so I start a little base building here and at Ajax. I should be able to build two bases at Exis before the Silicoid arrives.

IBT: Willow colonized, bringing us to 26 according to GNN. And, what's this? The Rocks want peace? Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. We could use a little space to grow.

2404-2405: zzz

2406: Silicoid large turns around without engaging. But we now have a base on the at Exis.

IBT: NPG comes in. We can now research Ion's, Mass Drivers, or Graviton Beams. Tough choice. I've never cared for Drivers or Gravitons, and Ion's are actually one of the more efficient weapons, plus that would give us early access to a decent two-range beam. So I go with the cannons, with the thought that we might be able to use the tech now, and the next tech can be Graviton to advance us up the tree.

2407-2410: Emperor pounder catches up on some much needed hibernation while his lackeys oversee the pop growth :sleep:


Post Game
Most of our core is mature now, and our planets are full. While this means we could have resume invasions, I didn't deem our +5 advantage in that area sufficient, which is why I accepted peace with the Silicoids. Alan will get 5 new techs on his turn, and can start building some NPG fighters. I envision the core carrying our research efforts while the north matures, at which time the north will take over research duties and our southern scientists will be taught how to extract knowledge with pointy sticks :ar15:

Save File osg4_2410.zip

Alan Up, Zed on deck. After this round of turns, I'm going to suggest we wait until after the holidays to pick this up; otherwise, this might turn into a 3-man succession game :crazyeye:
 
Sounds ok. I would have skipped Ion, gone Graviton, and hope to get the option to research Fusion beams next (much more useful than Ion at this point,) but it probably doesn't matter that much. Peace until we get Terraforming+30 completed sounds reasonable.

Given that we have double the number of planets of the other two major races, plus soil and terraforming+30 coming up, things look pretty rosy. :)

Incidentally, the save file is here:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/osg4_2410.zip
 
Are we going on sabbatical until after xmas after my turns? I'm going to be pretty swamped the next 4 days, but I can probably squeeze in 10 turns if we want to keep this going through the holiday.
 
I would prefer a sabbatical until after New Years. Whether or not we take it now, after your turns, or after Zed's probably doesn't matter too much. So if you'd like to play, do so. If not, don't worry about it.

-dathon
 
I'll consider us on sabbatical until after new years then. If I find time I may play and post in the interim, but let's put it on a strictly voluntary basis until Jan 2.

Happy holidays all.
 
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