RBO OSG7: Always War Hard

[Catwalk]

Plan: Get nuclear missile boats in order to take out Cryslon

Priority: Get Nuclear Engines, Irridium Fuel cells and Hyper-X rockets fast, keep developing our economy. Military buildup will wait until we can build proper missile boats unless absolutely necessary.

2350:

- Focus research on Weapons and Propulsion, minimal research in other fields, no Planetology research
- Send 16m from Anraq to Ukko
- Send 17m from Hyboria to vmxas Fav
- Bulrathis try to force us away from Ryoun with unarmed scouts and colony ships

2351:

- I decide to spend 4% spying on Silicoids, hoping to grab Deuterium fuel cells. That would let me strike at Cryslon without needing Irridium fuel cells first
- Send 9m from Anraq to Tau Cygni
- Scrap the old scouts as they're guarding hostile planets that won't be grabbed anytime soon, new scouts en route

- Bulrathi try to repulse us from Ryoun yet another time, bringing 3 large ships to the fray this time. We wisely retreat. One of the large ships carries missiles.
- Alkari repulse us from Xendalla with a 85 small ships and a large one. The large ship doesn't carry missiles. They haven't colonized it yet.

2352:

2353:

2354:

- Bulrathi repulse us from Stalaz with 3 large ships. We decide to test the efficiency of their missiles for some silly reason and discover that they are not fake.
- Our spy is caught, we send another one right away

2355:

2356:

- Silicoids have Duralloy Armour
- Nuclear Engines hits at 3%! Choices are: Range 6, Range 7, Inertial Stabilizer and Warp 3. This is a tough one. I would *really* like to steal Range 5 from Silicoids, and decide to double my bets on my spy by picking sub-light drives (5040) to advance on the tech tree and prepare for ground invasions (with Deflector Shield, Hand Lasers and Duralloy Armour we'll have crack troops shortly).
- Empire Production:
1) Alkari
2) Silicoid
3) Mrrshan
4) Bulrathi
5) Sakkra
6) Psilon

2357:

- Cease Propulsion research

2358:

- Nothing

2359:

- Our useless spy is caught again, launch another one

2360:

- Weapons is at 10% and Computers is at 6%

Nothing happened here, military buildup still hasn't begun. I'm still trying to get the hang of writing reports, and am a bit short on time to play. Let me know if you'd like extra information, more analyses or whatever.

 

[ToddMarshall]

I'm at a loss here. We're planing on taking and an AI home planet with neuclear missile boats? I've never tried that one before. That doesn't mean it wont work, just not something I've done.

Personally, I'm surprised we didnt beeline planetology so we can conquer as we please soon.

vmxa - I don't usually research H-X unless i'm in need of better missles ASAP. I prefer to get a "fighter" beam at this level, then get either Mercs or scatter packs at the next level. IC/npg are better beams than Neutron Blasters because they fit on fighters and have a better space/damage ratio.

On the other hand, mercs and scatters are a much better missile than Hyper-X. So, to me, unless there is an URGENT defensive need of better missiles, I prefer to go HL-> IC(npg)-> Scat-V(Mercs) -> Stingers(back for Fusion Bombs/AMR/FB(for the heavy)... whatever the situation dictates here).

Clearly, you never, ever build fighters. And thats great if it works for you. For me, it wouldn't work. Personally, I rely on fighters a very great deal so its dissappointing to me to see that they are a total non option unless we steal a low level beam.

- Maniac

 

[Catwalk]

Cryslon is in a nebula, missile boats tear up nebula worlds. I think Toxic costs too much, and we'd delay our military buildup significantly. I'm not too keen on Hyper-X either, but I think they'll be okay here. Gambling on being able to steal Deuterium Fuel Cells was probably stupid

 

[vmxa]

Yup, I never build smalls. I made some meduim missile boats to send attacks away from the planet during combat only. One of a given design per planet that comes under attack. I wait till large ships with a HEF and maybe an autoblaster.

Remember this is on small maps. You do not do much after you get 5 or so planets. The AI has lots of bases up already. The hyper-x will allow me to defend my planets all by itself for a long time. Eventually will hope to get scatter V or merc, but who knows.

On larger maps than small, it still works fine. I spend nothing more than minium of anything for military until I am ready to strike out and take planets from them.

The way I see it is you have finite resources. You can either pump them into war and try to get other races crippled or you can pump them into tech and planets. Get the planets strong enough to hold off attacks (only those in range).

I prefer the latter. All money into getting reseach done to get to a point where I am sure to be able to take them down, one planet at a time.

I will slip out bombers on planets that are freshly minted to slow the owners down. Not trying to grab them. I figure any money spent on ships that will not get the job done is subtracted from getting to the end.

Bit then I always play the game all the way out. I kill off all races, but one and leave it on one planet (its worse) and then go to Orion (after I ahve researched all techs) to get any tech I missed.

I admit the last part is a bit strange (not the Orion), insisting on ownin all planets. I was the same as I child at monopoly, I never put players out of the game when I had them busted. I made deal to get their holding. I want to have all the land before I drop the axe.

 

[vmxa]

Cryslon is in a nebula, missile boats tear up nebula worlds. I think Toxic costs too much, and we'd delay our military buildup significantly. I'm not too keen on Hyper-X either, but I think they'll be okay here. Gambling on being able to steal Deuterium Fuel Cells was probably stupid

I am not a big fan of stealing, but we are required to pump something into espionage in this game are we not? I will go at 4.4% if I need something.

Normally I figure I will get the tech when I land on their planets.

 

[ToddMarshall]

Ah, I'd forgotten about the nebula. I really am not worried about trouncing the Silicoids. It's going to be really easy.

In this case, we should have just gone for range ourselves. I assume you intend to glass the tundra and barren planets, capture cryslon and the other 2 planets?

I don't see a rush though. I'd prefer to build Hyper-X boats that will have some value in the next battles, or small nuclear boats.

Currently our best is a medium with neulcear missiles, Heavy Laser and comp 1 it seems to me. We can't even build a decent fighter to escort them.

I'm not in a hurry to attack really. I'd rather just get the landing tech. Then we wont have to stop fighting ever once we start.

 

[ToddMarshall]

I don't build much military until I intend to conquer the universe either. I will build it to try to save planets under boarder war. Thats it until its time to conquer the universe.

Btw, I've gone conquesting in small/impossible universes with fusion bombers and IC fighters before. It's not something I do a lot of, but I HAVE done it.

My small universe games are usually over before autoblaster.

 

[Zed-F]

Yeah, Catwalk, relying on the spy was probably . Oh well. Let's see what dathon makes of the situation.

In discussions I've had with vmxa before, I've learned that there is no such thing as acceptable casualties as far as he's concerned. IIRC he likes to tech through the roof before committing to battle. Obviously we won't be following any similar kind of game plan this time around.

Maniac -- while I agree that fighter beams are nice to have, I'd rather make sure I have a decent missle with which to equip my bases first, and then go back for the beam when I'm ready to build some ships worthy of the name. What if I don't have a good missle at the third tier? By the time I research the fighter beam and then the missle, I could already be under heavy attack, and missle bases are more important to my defensive plan than a fleet. So for my playstyle, I'll almost always pick a better missle over a better beam until I'm getting serious about naval construction, then I'll go back for the most appropriate beam for the navy I want to build. If you like to focus more on building a defensive fleet than on missle bases, however, that could certainly amp up the priority of a good fighter weapon. So it's more a matter of taste than anything.

 

[ToddMarshall]

If I don't have a good missile at 3rd tier, I go back for Hyper-X without hesitation.

I think a lot of our diffrences spring from the fact that I've been playing in large galaxies a lot lately, whereas I used to play in the medium/small galaxies that you usually play in.

In galaxies bigger than small, its rare for me to need a missile before I could research the 3rd tier one. I did say if I URGENTLY needed a missile, I'd do Hyper-X without a 2nd thought. In small galaxies, I get H-X a lot.

My reasoning is thus: Any beam larger than IC takes FOREVER to fit on a small (And with 3rd tier ones, by the time it does, it isn't worth it). Therefore, I KNOW that I'm going to need one of those 2nd tier beams. Therefore, if I feel that missiles CAN wait one more tier, I feel like I'm ahead to research the 2nd teir beam and 3rd tier missile.

Second tier beams are the only beams worth having till Auto Blaster/Megabolt Cannon usually, though Fusion Beams arent terrible.

Now to somone who doesn't build fighters for defense/escort, the opposite is probably true. You'd want H-X --> Neutron Blaster (and HBC to shoot past repulsors on your Larges) --> Stingers.

Agreed it's probably largely a matter of taste and strategy, and also a function of universe size to a large degree.

As to the planetology thing, the game I've been playing today I researched +10, IER, +20, then EER in that order...... Aparently it only seems strange to do that when +20 is a freebie...... Then again, there was no planet I'd found between habitable and Radiated so choosing Toxic there would have made ZERO sense.

Zero Casualties -- Wow. He plays like Pru then. She likes to wait till she can make those mauler device smalls...... I say things like, you don't want to know what kind of designs I just wiped the Darloks out with. She'll say, No I dont. I'll reply Warp 4/Stabilizer bombers, IC cannon fighters and Merc boats

 

[dathon78]

Odds of a successful tech steal at this point, given the rocks are at tech level 2 and we are at 1. I'm basing this off my interpretation of what the manual is saying.

*48% chance we'll infiltrate (they are at base security 2, plus 1 more point for the tech difference, so they need a 1d100 roll of 48 or higher to stop the infiltration.
*Once we've infiltrated, we need a 1d100 roll of 85 or better for a success. If I'm reading the manual right, the tech difference is only taken into account here if we are higher than them. If not, then we need an 86.

So, odds are 0.48 * 0.15 = 0.072 or 7.2% , or 0.48 * 0.14 = 0.0672 or 6.7%. Plus, there is a 32% chance each round that the spy will be caught and eliminated. When we get to scanners, it's not that much better. Infiltration chance is now 51% (tech level 2, minus 2 for our tech difference, need a 1d100 roll of 51) and we need a roll of 83 or better, for final odds of 0.51 * 0.17 = 0.0867 or 8.7%. Not good

I have the save, not sure what I'm going to do yet. Should be entertaining. if nothing else

dathon

 

[vmxa]

In discussions I've had with vmxa before, I've learned that there is no such thing as acceptable casualties as far as he's concerned. IIRC he likes to tech through the roof before committing to battle. Obviously we won't be following any similar kind of game plan this time around.

Maniac -- while I agree that fighter beams are nice to have, I'd rather make sure I have a decent missle with which to equip my bases first, and then go back for the beam when I'm ready to build some ships worthy of the name. What if I don't have a good missle at the third tier? By the time I research the fighter beam and then the missle, I could already be under heavy attack, and missle bases are more important to my defensive plan than a fleet. So for my playstyle, I'll almost always pick a better missle over a better beam until I'm getting serious about naval construction, then I'll go back for the most appropriate beam for the navy I want to build. If you like to focus more on building a defensive fleet than on missle bases, however, that could certainly amp up the priority of a good fighter weapon. So it's more a matter of taste than anything.

Yeah that is me, but I won't play that way in this game. This is not my game it is our game. But I definetly agree on the missiles. I am used to being under attack early and constantly, so MB are key.

It is usual for the AI to out number me and be ahead in tech, so I cannot easily build ships to fight them head to head. I will ocassionally be able to make a large laser or 3 to grab a planet in conflict.

Mainly I will stay at war the whole game with all race and let them burn up their resources on ships at my planets, till I can muster up a fleet to go on the attack.

The size of the ships is not important, I have just went with large as that seems to work out well. Not so much of an investment when it is time to scrap them.

I only use small as scout, medium as a missile dither. By that I mean it will have one 5 pack of my best missile up to merc, maybe stinger if no mercs. I will have one of each build to thwart incoming and to entice them into staying so my bases can pound away. If I lose the ship I build another. I want one type per stack as a rule.

I do not scout on the level done here normally as I don't need to. There are not that many planets and I won't be able to reach most before they have already been scouted. Yeah you can turn around colony ships and I will, but it is a trivial thing in the end.

 

[vmxa]

Zero Casualties -- Wow. He plays like Pru then. She likes to wait till she can make those mauler device smalls......

Not quite that bad. Autoblasters is plenty.

 

[dathon78]

Pre Game Analysis
Warlike. Max aggression. Wow does that not describe my usual early gameplan Well let's see. Only race in range is the rockheads. Two planets, unguarded,
right next to my border. But I can't invade because I don't have the planetology tech. As Catwalk pointed out, Cryslon is in a nebula, and the rocks have
no missile tech; however, it is at Range 5, we only have Range 4. Hmmm. Well, who say's we need to capture? We wanted war and fighting, and I think
glassing a few Silicoid planets certainly qualifies. Denubius and Willow are eminently hittable, and I have a plan for Cryslon...

2360:
*Thrax, Reticuli, and Ukko set to terraform (little past due IMO, but I like to terraform as soon as planets reach around half their native pop to keep that
growth curve going)
*Spying in the rocks is deemed not so likely to succeed, so the funding is cut.
*Forcefields dialed down to 5% and the rest put to construction. Without range or planetology tech, we're not going to be invading anybody any time soon,
and I'm not afraid of rock invasions once we get some Hyper X bases up. Besides, construction tech is essential to The Plan

IBT: Chased away from Stalaz

2361:
*Reticuli finishes terraforming, Thrax and Ukko should finish next turn.
*12 transports sent from Anraq to Tau Cygni. I want to start building a few bases there ASAP in anticipation of action against the rocks. Anraq isn't providing
all that much research anyway, and we won't have need of marines for quite awhile.

2362:
*Our kitty spy has been caught and killed.
*Fiddling with sliders.

2363:
*Tau Cygni maxes factories, transports next turn will nearly max pop. Work started on some defense bases.
*Heh, the fleet that chased us off Stalaz is following our scouts to Ryoun. They've caught on to us, me thinks

IBT:
*Rocks colonize XXX
*Scouts arrive at Ryoun, and are immediately chased away.
*Psilon's show up at Xendella with an armed colony ship. It had beams, so the scout retreats, and they colonize the planet.

2364:
*9 transports from Hyboria to max out Vmxas Fav.
*Construction is ripening nicely, not sure if it will pop on my turn or not... hmm, next leader may have to take up The Plan
*Scout remains at Xendella, others move back to Stalaz.

IBT: Scanner pops, choice is RCIII or BCIII. I think we're mature enough for the RC, so I take it.

2365:
*Yep, the bears are shadowing our scouts.
*Research from computer shunted to fields for the moment. Shields would help some with The Plan
*Vmxa's fav maxes factories, starts base construction.

IBT: Hyper X comes in, can take AMR's or Neutron Blasters. Seeing as how we lack any beams, I choose the blasters.

2366:
*Construction at 1%. The Plan is coming to light.

IBT: w00t!! Duralloy hits. Reduced 60% or IIT8. I choose Reduced 60%.

2367:
*Reticuli maxes factories, starts base spending with a little eco to top off its pop.
*And now, ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce to you.... THE PLAN

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, this latest marvel of engineering from Felinious Engineering corp promises to satisfy all of your crystaloid extermination needs!

So this is what I came up with. The shields will cut in half any damage the rocks can dish out from their lasers or nukes. The large Duralloy hull should
allow the ships to hang in orbit long enough for the 11 nuclear bombs to do some damage if the planet is guarded. I debated long and hard on trading a twelth
bomb for the computer, but in the end decided it was worth it. Oh, and the LR tanks will allow it to reach Cryslon. Fierias, Tau Cygni, and Vmxa's Fav will each have one built in 3 year's time, with the firsttarget to be Denubius, which has a base on it and should be smacked down before it gets too well guarded.

On a side note, I couldn't fit a bomb and a tank on a small, and none of the mediums I came up with seemed adequate for the job. I don't usually build
larges this early, but it seemed to fit the purpose best.

*All remaining 56BC put to force fields. I'll let the next leader decide on major teching decisions.

IBT: Alkari FINALLY chase us off of Antares. I'll leave the scout there another turn to see if they are serious.
* moment; I forgot to assign the retreating Bulrathi scouts a destination, so they're heading home. Oops.

2368:

IBT: Psilons must have learned a range tech, as we get contact with them.

2369:
*Psilons are Pacifistic technologists allied with the Sakkras. Surprisingly, we're ahead of them in tech, but then again, Xendella is only their second planet.
*Guess the birds weren't serious, as their fleet leaves Antares
*Thrax given a little eco spending to help it max more evenly.

2370:
*Reticuli is fully maxed
*First 3 rock hammers were produced, and are on the way to Vmxa's Fav. In fact, that planet will build another before the ship from Fierias arrives.
*Force Fields at 1%

Post Game
Well Zed, you wanted to know what I would come up with; careful what you ask for I don't have much experience with early bombing, so I have no idea
if those rock hammers will be effective or not, but it was the best I could come up with. I'm thinking a fleet of 10 or so should be good to start with, and
then the power house planets can go to research to nab either range or planetology, with my vote being for the latter. No map as not much has changed.

Here's the save though

 

[Zed-F]

A problem with the plan -- remember that Cryslon is in a nebula, which means NO shields. We know Cryslon will have a fair number of bases since it's a homeworld. If you think that ship will be able to suck up much punishment there, I tend to doubt it. Against a nebula world, a shoot-n-scoot missle boat would work better. However, I would think we would prefer to capture at Cryslon, not glass. Cryslon will stand up nicely if we capture it with factories intact, and we stand a good chance to capture tech.

What Rockhammer is perhaps good for is to use as a harasser at the non-nebula worlds. Of course we could use missle boats for that too since our missles are most likely better than the rocks'. (Check this first!) One other thing I would change other than swapping missles for the bombs would be to drop the computer and take a battle scanner instead. Even if it's a bit larger, the extra initiative and scanning ability are way useful, and it's cheaper than a computer too. Besides, we're Mrrshan, remember -- we already have effectively got a Mk 4 computer for free on all our ships.

EDIT: The roster...
Zed-F < On deck
Maniac < In the bullpen
catwalk
dathon
vxma << UP NOW

So, how is everyone feeling, pretty confident? We've had a few mix-ups on our tech plans, but nothing that will stop us, just slow us down a bit. Should we keep going with this start, or try a harder one?

 

[dathon78]

Points taken, Zed. As I said, a novice at this ultra early bombing thing My thinking on glassing Cryslon was just that we seemed to want a lot of early action, and that seemed the best way to provide it, as we aren't invading Cryslon anytime in the near future. However, you're probably right that they're not going to be of good use there. But Xendella, Alkari, and Bulrathi worlds? Uh huh

Barring some catastrophe, I don't see how we can lose this one, so if the point is to feel threatened, then I guess this game is a wash. I would be fine with another start.

dathon

 

[Catwalk]

I'm fine with the game, but would prefer different rules that emphasize more on warfare. We have no real incentive here.

 

[vmxa]

My .02 is that an all bomber is very rare for me. I mostly use them on impossible small maps very early. They will be med ships. To hit planets very close to me.

I will send them with no support to do as much damage as they can, until they are chased off. I sometimes can use just a few to kill a new colony.

My goal is just to delay them getting the planet up and running. Sometimes, I can delay it to the point that I can steal it. By that I mean, I am at war and land either troops or a colony ship after kill the planet. Found or capture and get peace right away. Now stand it up before the war breaks out again.

A bit cheesy, but hey it is impossible, need to cash in if the chance comes. So 612BC is a monster investment at this point. I would prefer missile ships as they can be more useful and maybe come on a smaller platform.

 

[Zed-F]

I'm fine with the game, but would prefer different rules that emphasize more on warfare. We have no real incentive here.

Next time we'll see about putting in some kind of a rule about keeping ships in orbit over AI worlds, then, to annoy them into declaring war ASAP. Would you like to come up with a proposal in that regard?

I think it could be as simple as saying all enemy worlds must have at least a scout in orbit as much as possible, but tell me what you think.

 

[Catwalk]

I would prefer rules that focus on giving us incentives to fight, rather than rules that limit our freedom. I'm not sure how to go about providing these incentives, I'll try to think of something.

I think we should have gone with missile boats, and an 8.7% chance per turn of stealing isn't bad, corresponds to a 60% chance of getting one or more techs in 10 turns. If we have to delay our march on Cryslon we can always start out glassing the frontier worlds.

 

[vmxa]

Without the save in front of me I cannot recall the overall picture, but I am reluctant to glass a terran. No problem on the lesser ones though.