RBP 10 - The Spanish Explorers - Team A

I was able to find the file in the download directory. I wasn't going to say anything since I had enough trouble starting out. :rolleyes:

I'll see what kind of land I can poach when I play Tuesday morning.

If Mao does not last another 14 turns, will our rep take a hit with our GPT for tech trade?
 
I just mentioned the broken link because I wanted to prevent potential problems; I didn't mean to suggest that you would be unable to find the file yourself. :blush:

I'm not sure if our rep will be stained if Mao dies, but I think this is only the case when "breaking" resource or lux deals. I could be wrong, though (any more experienced lurker reading this? :) ).

-Kylearan
 
Really hope I didn't screw us over on the rep thing. I for some reason didn't expect Mao to be dead in 20 turns.

And it's more than likely that I'm going to need another skip, unless my turn doesn't hit until friday. 3 more papers and attendent pain. Last one, though. The pain is ALMOST over.
 
There is now way for us to know that Rome would attack again. I'll try to get a settler pair over there and keep an I on how the war progresses. I'll have time to play later this morning when my "7thGenTexan" takes her nap. :yeah:
 
Oh, I totally forgot One More Thing: I noticed Jaen is in danger of flipping to Rome, as it is in contest of two second ring tiles (and losing at the moment). Rome's total culture is more than 4 times our culture, so it may be a good idea to send some spare units (if we have any) to Jaen for flip risk reduction - I've forgotten to do so. :o

7thGenTexan? :rotfl:

-Kylearan
 
(0) 750AD

MM Barcelona to fill food box before next settler/worker, bank due in one
Santiago swithches from bank to cathedral to complete before growth to prevent disorder
MM Zaragoza to delay aqueduct by one turn but growth will be 3 turns after completion

Diplo:
Embassy with Shaka-Zimbabwe size 11, Bach's in 13, 4 pikes, 3 iron sources
Embassy with Xerxes-Persepolis size 12, completing coloseum, 5 pikes & 2 cats, NO saltpeter, no trade route
Hiawatha is also in against China...China has no saltpeter...they are not going to be with us much longer :cry: ....trade TM to make sure I know how much land they still have

Persia gets EDU-12GPT for Chiv
Shaka gets both bank & Astro for Chem, PP, WW and last coin
Scientist starts work on Democracy

How far behind are we in tech?
ROME: Monarch,MT,eco,nav,phys,metal,Democracy
ENGLAND--IROQUOIS: Monarchy,MT,eco,nav,phys,metal
CHINA: Monarchy,MT,eco,nav,phys
ZULU: Monarchy,MT
PERSIA:Monarchy -- down: PP,bank,astro,chem

Not sure about flip risk for Jaen. No more roman citizens and will expand in 16 turns.
Wake sword and settler nearby to take boat ride to visit China before it is gone.

IBT England offers ROP and alliance vs China...I'll pass. Rome did not like our galley stopping in the corner of their territory. Rome completes Newton's

(1)760AD Barcelona bank--> coloseum Tour group lands between Beijing and Xinjain(reg musket). Shaka has learned eco. China is down to 4 cities

IBT Rome distroys Xinjain and gets 4 slaves

(2)770AD Jaen harbor-->library for more culture. Valencia-->harbor Tourist find nice sea-side vista to sit on while waiting the end of Beijing. Shaka learns navigation Scientist moves to Barcelona MM Madrid to fill food box MM Murcia for growth

IBT China looses Beijing

(3) 780BC Madrid Harbor-->Musket for Logrono founded in 3 square wide opening on coast of mainland, temple started. X-man learns the PP Trade WM--64GPT--328G for Metal from England

IBT

(4) 790BC Santiago Cathedral-->Bank Trade Metal--WM--13GPT to Shaka for Gems--NAV trying to get Physics from China for Metal but they are being stubborn about wanting GPT or SaltP. 4th lux does allow tax to go to 0% for an additional 36GPT

IBT Zulu-Rome MPP

(5) 800AD Murcia Cathedral-->Bank...China now has Metal. :mad: Everyone else but Persia and China has MilTra now.. China is down to capital in Tatung. Trade our extra SaltP and chem to Persia for Monarch, MusicT and wm. Might as well pick up these useless techs. Rome, England and Iriquois are Industrial now. MM Madrid to fill up food box. Rush temple in Logrono.

IBT English capture the last chineese city. :wavey: Bye China.

(6) 810AD Seville cathedral--> courthouse Logrono temple-->harbor Zaragosa aqueduct--> catedral Pamplona Cathedral-->bank No change to our rep. Rome-furious, Zulu & Persia-annoyed, England & Iroquois-polite

IBT Iroquois complete Bach's Rome and England fighting for Smith's

(7) 820AD Madrid musket-->musket Shaka and X-man want nothing to do with our extra spices now that China has no need for them

IBT Englash forces move toward Logrono. I hope they are on the way home. Zulu's start Smith's Rome starts Universal Suffrage

(8) 830AD Toledo Cathedral-->Bank Musket on the way to Jaen to be ferried to Logrono

IBT English forces heading home.

(9) 840AD Trade last spices to Persia for 5gpt

IBT Rome gets Smith's

(10) 850AD Madrid musket-->coquestador Barcelona Colosseum->Library
Musket loaded on galley in Jaen ready to set sail.
I have not done anything this turn so it is all ready for you.

And OK only one new city. :rolleyes:
SAVE
 
This is a killer week for me, and there's no way I could play before Friday. With Dwip out, though, I don't want to go to a 2-player rotation. :p

Kylearan, if you have time between now and then and want to play before me, go for it. I could pick it up when you're done. Otherwise, I should be able to play and post Friday.

Say hi to the 7thGenTexan for me! :wavey:

-Griselda
 
Very good, we have a foothold on the other continent! I hope my idea will prove useful in the future and won't just be an invitation for Rome to attack us. I guess we want to have a strong garrison in Logrono, both to prevent a flip and an attack. The Roman cavalry makes me nervous...

Uh oh, the worst case scenario is upon us: Our rep is stained. I noticed this first when Elizabeth came to renegotiate our spices-for-ivory deal, but would only accept it straight up. When I want her to add one gold, the advisor said "she would never accept". :hmm: And when Rome wanted to renegotiate the spices-for-furs deal, Caesar gave us 8gpt now instead of 1gpt, but won't give us hard cash. Another example: The Iros would give only 80 gold for our spices, or 22 gpt. And 1000 gold and 150 gpt wasn't enough to get us physics from anyone. :( I don't know if that's the result of China's demise, and I'm not sure if we could have foreseen that, but this game becomes a lot harder now! Time to save some money, I guess, which will throw us back a lot in our catch-up game. I later bought physics from the Iros for 1130 gold, and Rome demanded 40 gold and of course got it.

In 870AD, England declared war on Rome! Whoa Lizzy, you sure what you're doing? On the same turn, Zululand declared war on England, too! I had rather hoped for a dogpile on Caesar, but that didn't happen. Instead, most of England is Roman now, as if Rome wasn't powerful enough already. Rome has infantry, by the way... :cry:

England lost a lux we had imported during the war, and so I had to buy another one from the Iroquois. Caesaraugusta got a harbor rushed, and Vitoria a courthouse, some muskets got built, mainly for Logrono and Jaen which both have a small chance of flipping. Two workers have been ferried over to Logrono as well, and another settler has been built.

Normally, I'm no pessimist, but I'm not sure how we can win this. Now is the time tech parity should be reached on Deity, but we are still far behind, and will be for some more time with our stained reputation. The rep problem will most probably also prevent a chance at the space race, and maybe the UN as well, and by the time we will have infantry and artillery, Rome will probably have tanks already. So if anyone has a plan or a good idea, please speak up...

The game

Griselda is up now, friday the earliest.

-Kylearan
 
Yes, it's me again, but the other team has 8 pages already and I'd like to play catch-up on that front as well... :lol:

I've had some more thoughts about the game, and what I've seen during my turns, and realized...infantry in the year 950AD? That's a mighty fast tech pace! And this is not done by several AIs researching different branches and then trading, no, it looks like Rome alone is running away, really amazing! I'm looking forward to the games of the other teams - will Scandinavia, China (and probably England) be dead there, too? And if not, how will that change their tech pace?

The bad thing is that we will probably miss ToE, suffrage and hoover. I had thought about starting a prebuild, but we have too few cities for a decent palace prebuild. But maybe it could be worth starting one soon anyway?

I still think we would have a hard time trying a military victory, with our weak economy, our technological gap and the size of our enemy. But maybe we will be able to pull off a diplomatic victory, although the prebuild timing will be hard to do - and does anyone know whether the AIs will vote for you if you sign a MPP, but your rep is stained? And can MPPs be forged with a stained rep?

Another thing is, how will we trigger our golden age? My earlier joy about Rome leaving a unit on our continent is somewhat gone now that Rome has infantry already...

Anyway, I'm glad my first succession game is not a boring one... :lol:

-Kylearan
 
Yes, you can win a diplomatic victory with a stained reputation. Yes, MPPs can be forged with a stained rep. I don't even recall if there's additional cost or not. RoPs, too (very helpful for getting a vote for you!!!), can be signed with a stained rep. One thing to be wary of, however, is that MPPs and RoPs do not guarantee a vote in an election. They're good but no guarantees.

Viel Gluck,
Arathorn
 
No. It isn't looking good for us right now. On the Diplo victory, I thought is is the attitude of the other civs determining who gets their vote. Bribes have helped me in the past. The problem is getting on the ballot. I think it is the builder of the UN and the next largest Civ. Rome will be on the ballot either way, since they will probable build it. We may want to forget about Rome and look at taking what is left of England or heading the other direction and taking over Persia.
 
Thanks Arathorn for the clarification! I always thought MPPs are a near-sure way to get votes, but it looks like we'll have to improve relations in other ways as well.

6thGenTexan, as fas as I know there even can be three civs on the ballot: The builder of the UN, and the two largest civs (by population). You're right, we won't get on if we don't build the UN, so if we try that path we should have a well-timed prebuild and must hope that we will have caught up until then tech-wise (spies might help). And then enough civs must be alive so the election with three civs on the ballot can make sense.

Of course we can also attack one of the "weaker" civs. This would need a long preparation time, though: We must build up our forces (we could start building muskets and cannons now for later upgrade, for example) and probably can't attack at least before we have replacable parts. And I guess we need enough money to draw Rome on our side, or our enemies will do that (which wouldn't be pretty).

Going for England would have been a good idea, but I guess until we have something to throw at Lizzy, she's dead already... ;)

I think we will have to decide on which path to walk soon: If we plan to attack someone, we should start building up our forces now. The problem I see is that Rome will have mech infantry and modern armor when we have finished off the other civs. If we plan to go for a UN or space victory, we should neglect building up a large army and instead save our money for tech. Problem here is that we maybe won't catch up on Rome in time - except Caesar gets involved in more wars, though a Roman domination victory would be a threat then.

What do you think?

-Kylearan
 
I suppose for a first Deity game I probably should have played in a bit before I went with this map. But, I didn't want to feel like I had tailored every aspect of the game to be perfect for us. I figured that if we did win the game, I didn't want to feel like we would need to "qualify" our win because we'd played a candy-coated scenario. I wanted to get a feel for what Deity is like, not what an idealized version of Deity is like. Insisting on fresh water and bonus food at our capitol (which did appear in the first start I generated) seemed like a reasonable place to draw the line.

I hope I don't sound overly defensive by bringing this up. I just want to mention it, since it's been in my mind since my very first turn. This is the first sucession game I've hosted, and I hate to feel like I've doomed three teams to failure before any of them ever began!

Still, I guess we've all learned something, and I hope everyone's having fun regardless. :D

A few thoughts before I play my turns:

Rome has infantry? INFANTRY? :help: In that case, I don't know that we'll be able to get the UN, even if we kept up tech-wise.

Oh, I notice Rome is in anarchy now- could they be going into communism? That will help, at least a little, if it's true.

Our land doesn't look too good for coal prospects, unfortunately.

Although going to war vs. these AI might be tough, we may even need a leader to rush the UN at this rate. Also, it might be nice if we can manage to trigger our golden age. Looking at the continents, we'll likely want navagation anyway if we plan to travel to the far continent ever.

I'm thinking that we could probably take Persia and improve our rep with most of the other AI as well. They're pretty wimpy, and are even behind us in tech.

We could sign MPP's with the Zulu and the Iroquois and declare on Persia. We could then either go for a piece of Persia on our own, or wait for them to attack us and trigger the MPP's.

Of course, if we don't participate in the war ourselves, there's a good chance that we'll create another superpower over on the other continent, and that's not what we want. Also, the Zulu don't yet have nationalism, so we can't sign a MPP with them just yet.

I'm also not sure if we would benefit from a war with Persia, especially if we don't take their land, since they can't offer us any tech. We could consider another AI, I suppose, but anyone else would be more likely to be able to buy in Rome. Or, we could just try to take Persia ourselves, but would that help us get to the UN any faster, especially since it wouldn't build alliances?

We have democracy due in 20, and probably will want to limit our war time in Democracy. At least we're religious. :)

I can play later tonight, but it might be interesting to hear what others think about all this before I play. So, I may hold off a bit. We'll see.

Also, I realized that while Dwip is out, if we go back to our current rotation, I'd be up again right after 6GenTexan! Kylearan, do you want to continue to go ahead of me until Dwip is back? Also, then I might even get to finish Epic 28. :wink:

-Griselda
 
Well Gris, on the bright side, our first deity SG is certainly going to be a memorable one, yes? And we're all learning, which is really what counts, yes?

That having been said, we might want to start another, slightly more forgiving game after this. ;)


As to where we are, I've obviously been out of it, but, um. I think we're dead. We might be able to pull of a war against Persia, but... dunno. I'm not convinced that will save us, really. But I'll leave the decision-making to y'all.


Also, I was supposedly going to be back today, but it turns out I've got another Big Day on Monday, so, um, I'll be back then.
 
Hey Gris, there's no reason to feel bad about this game! First, I am glad that you haven't played longer into the game; I like to play a "real" Deity game opposed to one which has artificially been made easier by restarting. Second, who says that you have doomed three teams? Even if we lose this (which is not a sure thing!), we would have won if China, Scandinavia and England would have survivded, or if only one of them would have died. Look at the tech situation of the civs on the other continent. If Rome would have been smaller, we would have caught up easily! So the other teams have a very good chance at winning this, IMHO. And third, even if all teams lose this, I don't think anybody would feel too bad about it, and instead we just start RBP11: The Revenge with more experience than before. So cheer up! :)

But this is not lost yet. This is Deity, and bleak situations can be turned into memorial victories, so let's get to work! If we want to have a chance to win this, we need a plan, though. I agree we could probably attack Persia after some build-up, but I'm not sure how this would help us. Advantages would be: Improving relationships with the other AIs, possibility of a leader, and triggering our GA. Disadvantages: Huge slowdown in catching-up, since we need to buy an obsolete tech (mil. trad.), support a much larger army (decreasing our income) and probably drop out of democracy.

In my opinion, war would only be good if we plan to win militarily, although I'm not sure how we should beat Rome. If we plan to go for UN or space, I would prefer to stay out of war if possible. Maybe declare war on a weak and broke enemy so that he will land some troops on our continent for our GA, hoping that he won't sign Rome against us, but not more. Btw, I don't think a leader is required for the UN; a well-timed prebuild would suffice, IMHO.

Hm, the more I think about it, the more I like Gris' idea of declaring war on Persia, but only for GA-triggering. This would probably have to wait a bit until we have nationalism, and would be risky as we have to hope that they won't be able to start a dogpile on us, but I guess we have to take risks to win this game. Then I would like to go for UN (or space); if Rome really drops into communism, and we can trigger our GA and manage to keep only a small military, we might catch up in time.

But then I'm no expert warmonger, and tend to be too careful when it comes to war, so if you think a war would be helpful I'd have no strong objections against it. :hammer:

And we can keep our new playing order until Dwip is back, no problem!

-Kylearan
 
Well, everyone always says that it's best to *never* throw in the towel on Deity until it's all over, no matter how deep you're in, right? These AI still have plenty of time to fall apart :lol:

With 2 MPP's, if we let Persia attack first, I don't think we'll have dogpile problems. Who knows, maybe letting the Iro's swallow Persia would make Rome want to fight them? It might be a good idea to make sure that Persia doesn't live long enough to vote against us at that point, though!

We can wait until we agree that the time is right, though. I just wish we had a good way to keep track of where Rome was tech-wise so that we could time the prebuild well.

I fell asleep early last night. I'll play today.

-Griselda
 
If you don't believe yet to never throw in the towel in deity, then take a look at LK48. We played a variant with all scientific civs and at one point we were over a 1/2 age behind plus missing all optional techs. We have a lousy start city with no food bonus, and our second city was all food and no shields.

Despite all of that we just build ToE and have gotten a golden age recently. To make things better our territory is starting to grow nicely.
 
It was a quiet set of turns, but the world is definitely changing. Whether we can use any of it to our advantage remains to be seen, of course.

(0) 950 AD - I sell our spices to the annoyed Zulu for 12 gpt. They're still annoyed, and I figure we need to work on our rep now, so I also sign a ROP with them for 40 gold. They're now polite. I also mine one irrigated plains tile by Barcelona, and then realize that it doesn't make any difference anyway. Just call it "training exercises" for our workers. :lol:

BT- Romans complete Suffrage in Canton.

(1) 960 AD - Strike everything I said about navigation in my last few posts- we have it *and* conquistadors! I must have missed that, so forgive me if it was glaringly obvious. I figure we might as well do some exploring with our northern galley, though I note that the AI want a lot for their maps. There's a good chance they've busted all the fog on their maps.

Madrid is on a university, and Barcelona's building a library? I realize that they don't have much else to build, but it seems like I'd rather pay maintenance on a unit than on a building. I know that civ-wide culture counts for a little bit on flips, but I don't think that culture in our core is going to do much. So, Madrid will build muskets, and Barcelona will build knights for the time being.

BT - Madrid musket - musket. Zarazoga cathedral - granary

(2) 970 AD
(3) 980 AD - Our new musket arrives in Murcia. I figure I'll send them to reinforce towns as we need them, and send a spear south for flip suppression as they arrive. Lograno's workers head to a forest tile to chop. Rome parades an infantry past :cry:

BT- Zulus demand territory map + 67 gold, and get it. Barcelona knight - knight

(4)990 AD - England is down to 5 cities. Also, we no longer have any ongoing deals with them. Persia has economics now, and they would trade it to us for physics. But, I just don't see the advantage of getting economics at all in this situation, and it would move Persia along tech-wise. So, I don't trade.

BT- Zulus want to renegotiate our gems deal for cash, but will agree to pay us 16 gpt. Madrid musket - musket. We can add to our palace.

(5) 1000 AD - I see some sea tiles in the ocean (this later turns out to *not* have any land nearby, boo). Persia now has ALL of the tech we have, plus democracy and economics! We should have traded! I buy magnetism from England for 1275 gold. I figure that Liz could use the money. Either she'll die with it, and it will be out of the game, or she'll use it to buy an alliance, and maybe save herself. England is down to 3 cities.

BT - Persia demands saltpeter. I really think about refusing here. We'd talked about going to war with Persia, and I think that we could take them, especially since we'd have a few turns before the boats arrived. But, the overall consensus was to wait, and I'm still thinking that the Zulu don't have nationalism. We could get dogpiles, and we're not ready to handle that at all. Plus, I really couldn't remember if we were importing any lux from Persia. I didn't think so, but I hadn't expected them to make a demand, either. So, the Persians can help themselves to our saltpeter for 20 turns.

Santiago bank - rax

(6) 1010 AD
(7) 1020 AD - Logrono loses another tile to Beijing. I swap from harbor to cathedral.

BT- Madrid musket - musket. Barcelona knight - knight. Logrono forest chop complete. The Romans move in 3 infantry and a cav. Just passing through, guys?

(8) 1030 AD
(9) 1040 AD - Persians have magnetism now, and no gold. I really am checking them for deals each turn, but I'm not going to give tech to them just because they're broke. They have so little money I can't notice prices drop, and I really have no idea what they're able to give the other AI for the tech.

For some odd reason, I try to renegotiate our spices deal. Naturally, Persia has nothing to pay for them, so the deal is off. I'm guessing they'd have cancelled it between turns anyway, since they're broke.

We have some gold again. I know it's only one turn from the end of my round, but I go ahead and buy a second tech. England's down to 2 cities, so for all I know they could be dead by next turn. So, I buy theory of gravity from them for 1255 gold. I note that England has nationalism, but no steam power or medicine. The Zulu have steam power, but no nationalism or medicine. Zulu and the Iro have all three, naturally. If only we could pay gpt, we could do some brokering now! Still, we're making a decent chunk of cash per turn, and some brokering opportunities may still exist in a few turns.

We're now in the industrial age. Weren't we just starting the middle ages the last time I played? The tech pace is lightning fast, even for deity, I agree.

I finally remember to check to see if Rome is out of its anarchy. They are- they're a Republic! :hmm: Not what we'd hoped for, but at least it means they'll have to go through another anarchy if they can't maintain those wars in republic either. The Zulu and Iros are democracies.

BT- England does use her cash to buy an alliance. Unfortunately, Liz still hasn't figured out who it is that's destroying them. She signs Persia up for an alliance vs. the Zulu! :crazyeye:

Murcia bank - rax. Valencia cathedral - bank. The palace gets some nice shrubbery.

(10) 1050 AD - Sure enough, the Persians have some cash now. But, they still have no gpt, so they won't offer anything worthwhile for our spices. We have two other spice deals that will be open for renegotiation in 2 turns.

It will be interesting to see how the Persia - Zulu war turns out. At least it will keep Shaka busy for the time being, right?

Save Us!

Griselda - Just played (thanks for your patience, guys!)
Dwip - skipped for now
6GenTexan - UP NOW
Kylearan - on deck
 
Dwip--I won't be able to play before Tuesday so if you want to play before me that will be fine. If you need a day to recover that will be fine and I'll get it then.
 
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