RBP8 - Culture Conquerors

Originally posted by Skyfish
CivG do you live in the US...or in Germany ?
I can not for the life of me imagine people delivering and installing refrigerators on Sundays ! :lol:
Click to expand...

I live in the US,

Luckly my parents has a truck to deliver it. Now bringing it up a 1/2 flight of stairs would be another story :s. Hense they require my help to bring it up. Luckly my Step Father can install it, just plug it it in and attach the water :).
 
Good luck T-Hawk, I just hope the game works out well

CivGeneral is still helping with the instalation of the water line to the ice maching to the fridge
 
Inherited turn:

One problem with my plan: the Great Wall already exists, in London. :p I still want to get those Hanging Gardens in Parishaka, though.

Not worth it to make peace with England to buy Currency at monopoly, and I'll also wait for a brokerage between that and Construction.

As for the settler, I think our best bet is two cities to refill that jungle. Our current settler heads to the ex-Dijon spot, and I order another settler in Lyons (let's get those French nationals out of there) to fill in along that river.

BTW, with what military exactly am I supposed to take Tours? We have but six swordsmen left and most of them are down by England...

==========

330 BC: France now has Monarchy. This means that Parishaka's current build is going to be the Hanging Gardens; no time for a colosseum first.

Now I see our southern settler; where is he trying to go? Those two ivory are already ours anyway. England won't settle close enough to steal them. I'd rather have this settler make a useful city than in bad land on our border, distracting us in preventing it from flipping. He heads north, into the jungle, and Lyons' settler goes west to the coast there.

Zimbabwe continues to produce an impi every turn for my entire reign.


310 BC: Was Charis or a rogue impostor at the helm? I have to interrupt four workers doing something automatic at Rheims. It wasn't a goto order, either.

Massive Barbarian Uprising near Ulundi?! Well, that means that Currency got around at least...


290 BC: Grr. England, Egypt, and France all have all of Monarchy, Currency, and Construction, and India has none. Babylon won't talk with us. No brokering available yet, so I'll still bide my time...

And there's a barbarian camp with 8 horses in the middle of the jungle between Lyons and Ulundi. Well, I start sending (mostly newly-produced) swords there to clean it up.


270 BC: A French boat landed one archer next to Bapedi, and our warrior there kills it.


250 BC: Barbarian camp dispersed, three horses are left next to Ulundi but the city's got two impi and a sword on defense, and those hold up fine. (Actually, I think I forgot to reassign them from Ulundi to somewhere useful; next leader please do that.)

Parishaka riots due to an increase in war weariness; oops. Lux to 30%.


230 BC: Babylon STILL won't talk and there's still no brokering available.


210 BC: Babylon will talk. They have Construction, which we could get for free by trading them Republic, but I don't want to speed our largest rival into a better government (he doesn't have Monarchy either.)

So what I do is make peace with Babylon, buy Currency from Egypt for 220 gold and resell it plus 80 gold to Babylon for Construction. That's the Middle Ages for us, so we can look for brokerage deals between Middle Ages techs and Monarchy (for the Hanging Gardens.)

I forgot Babylon is scientific; that puts them also into the Middle Ages and they pull Monotheism for free. Republic at last-civ can't buy Monotheism at monopoly, though.


190 BC: Our elite swords finally arrive at Tours.

170 BC: We inflict much damage on Tours. It survives with an archer with 2 HP.

We also kill three English archers this turn.


150 BC: At long last, Tours falls to Zulu forces. We had four elite victories in taking the city, but no Great Leader.


==========

Next leader can decide whether to keep trying to eliminate France, or whether to accept Grenoble plus Monarchy for peace. War weariness and "Stop the aggression" unhappiness is holding our economy back a bit, and free Monarchy would be nice, although eliminating the flip risks would also be nice.

We're still at war with England and may as well stay so to keep that civ crippled and to fish for Leaders. Remember our variant restriction: no military operations in enemy territory.

I was farming workers out of Hlobane and Swazi; they can each make a worker every two turns if carefully managed (at least in Golden Age.) We still need about 23.4 gazillion more, though.

Parishaka is four turns away from the Hanging Gardens. Keep an eye out for a brokerage between Monotheism and Monarchy; if one doesn't appear in the next four turns, you'll have to buy Monarchy at full price. Babylon is currently still holding a monopoly on Monotheism. After the Hanging Gardens, Parishaka must of course get a cathedral and colosseum rushed, and hopefully we can pull a Great Leader for the Sistine Chapel. (Cascade from the Hanging Gardens through Sun Tzu's could conceivably take Sistine before Parishaka gets to build it. Let's hope Parishaka builds the HG before anyone gets Feudalism.)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/rbp8-150bc.zip

Cartouche Bee, I believe you're up now. Good luck!
 
Looks like a good turn there T-Hawk. Automated actions?!?! You're right it must be an imposter, I didn't use any. Perhaps it was a ctrl-R? :cool: (That one IS getting a lot of use in my games now :P )

> BTW, with what military exactly am I supposed to take Tours?
> We have but six swordsmen left and most of them are down by England...

Why, build them of course! GA Power! Picture how much of a problem England's sneak attack was. We had *all* troops up North or some in jungle area, and England was nice enough to give me 'warning signs' of a sneak attack. If I ignored that our western city would have fallen (instead, an Impi shuffle to defend it brought on the golden age) Every new unit and several existing units rushed over for what was expected to be an onslaught. England has had no war and has a decent sized empire, it should be painful right? Dribs, just dribs.

Good moves with the city plans and with waiting for brokering ops. I also like the plan of fishing England. Even if they bring in allies, it will be from overseas and so would be ineffective except for fishing.

> Next leader can decide whether to keep trying to eliminate
> France, or whether to accept Grenoble plus Monarchy for peace.

Ouch, that means the capital shifted to the tiny island? One option would be to ally with an AI from the other mainland. That would make them scramble to assault the island, disrupt their peaceful build-up, and perhaps keep that civ from allying against us (no biggie now that Babylon 'war' is over) Then again if they botched the invasion or ignored the treaty that would rot. France might even get a tech to give as concession if it went 20 turns. War weariness won't further increase after we capture Grenoble, if we do go for capture. I doubt I would try this route, but thought it worth mentioning.

Oh, Cartouche is up? Nevermind, he's going to build a galley and 'take care of business'. Ah... now that I think about it, I *know* that I would take them out for sure. One of Shaka's life motto's was "Never leave and enemy behind, or he might rise up
and strike you from behind." If we ever see a city flip, consider this prophecy of Charishaka! :hammer:

Charis
 
France is still alive? Hahaha, I'll get two navel attacks set up (Elites only for the capitol, GL fishing and Grenoble is only approachable by sea also under the rules of the variant) and squash them and any galleys they have (I hope). Should do wonders for WW also.

Parishaka only needs 4 turns under GA to have enough shields for Hanging Gardens, so Monarchy is a must in time to capture that event. I'll buy it from Egypt if I have to.
 
Preturn:

Primary concern is how to end the war with France.

Rouen
Tours will build a galley and it will need to be cash rushed in 3 turns, but for now we have troop healing required. It will be razed, I don't want to maintain a token harbor city.

Grenoble
We have 2 swords on patrol in the area but they need transport to get into position. Isipezi will change to galley and cash rush next turn.


Hanging Gardens needs to be built before too long and Monarchy will be made accessible in time to achieve that wonder.

Building up the Empire:
I go to the domestic advisor and review the situation by ordering cities by commerce. Our long term prosperity will be driven by commerce, the cities at the top of the list will be primped, those at the bottom of the list will provide essentials like workers or military. Therefore when workers become available, they will be channeled to the top cities needs and interlocking road systems.

Ulundi is in desperate need of jungle clearing.
Zimbabwe needs mines in the hills for future productivity.

Changes in build orders, to suit my turns, not meant to imply the other orders were not correct.

Zimbabwe changes to marketplace.
Isandhlwana -> marketplace.
Bapedi can't grow too much until the jungle is cleared so, marketplace.
Tugela ->marketplace
Orleans with temple already, marketplace. Will help with despair, No?
Swazi -> harbor
Intombe - the cut to workers and military no change.
Nandi fills in the gaps with temple. No change
Rheims also fills in the gaps. No change.
Hlobane -> horseman.
Ngome ->catapult
Umtata -> Impi
Chartres -> Impi
Marseilles -> warrior.

Redistribution of forces:
I want to get horsemen off city defense and Impi spread across the coasts. Elite units that are not to be involved in the elimination of France will be directed to the front with England.

IBT Spot French galley going for the capitol. English archers advance towards Intombe.

130BC
Rheims temple->catapult for border defense
Umtata Impi-> worker MM so not starving, our new scientist!
2 additions offered for the Palace.
Isipezi cash rushes galley for 88 gold.
Swordsman takes out English spear roaming our capitol's lands?
Trade maps around.
Peek in cities reveal Golden Age to end next turn.
Permit governor to control down turn in economy and the control the very corrupt small cities MM to preserve the scientist and 2 other bad off cities.
Decide to rush galley in tours to deliver a landing party before the elites go over.
Move some horsemen into more strategic positions for counter attacks and other minor troop movements.


IBT Quiet except English archers. Golden Age ends. income drops to 39.

110BC
Tours galley->marketplace Isipezi galley->worker
Governor saves us some production, Parishaka is starving and hmmm, some one added French worker to the city. Bad for happiness. But enough of the governor, job done.
We battle 3 English archers, suffer no loses and a horseman goes elite.

IBT English archer gets lucky on our sword.

90BC
Cat shot misses Rouen. Just worker movements and troops repositioning.

IBT French galley moves to the north east of Rouen.

70BC Ulundi marketplace->horseman Lyons temple->marketplace Chartres Impi-> worker nandi temple->marketplace Amatikulu Impi->Impi
Cat shot misses Rouen. 2 Elite swords arrive at Rouen

IBT Babs start Hanging Gardens
50BC
Hlobane horseman-> horseman Ngomecatapult-catapult Swazi disorder duh!
First elite Sword wins and produces Zwelithini Second vanquishes Rouen's last defender and we raze it to the ground.
We land at Grenoble. however, with the French galley at large the elimination is not near, so I want to get Monarchy out of the way and get the Gardens. Parishaka-if I change to coliseum I would waste 182 shields, that means I need 18 shields to complete next turn. I'm only producing 16 so MM for 18. Now England is in turtle mode so if I declare peace I can get Monarchy for pretty cheap. But I can get Feudalism and then trade that around and get Monarchy and Monotheism. I could then use the Great leader to rush Sun Tzu (not really, I'd save it for Sistine but has great T-hawk shock value ;)). Then sell mono back to England and maybe have enough to rush a culture building after Hanging Gardens, plus have Sistine in the bag assuming we can acquire the tech in the future.

So peace with England and purchase Feudalism for 790. Egypt Monotheism for Feudalism and 6GPT. Babs trade Monarchy for Feudalism. England gives us 310 for Monotheism. OK so for net about 500 we got 3 techs but evened the race for now. India can't get into the trades but I'll check their status next turn in case the make some GPT available. I switch to Hanging Gardens.

WW is up a notch so I'll raise the lux rate to tide us over till HG comes on line.
Whew!

IBT French galley keeps moving across the top of the continent to the east. Looks like we have to chase it else we could still have a culture flip, even after we get their capitol. Cascades to lighthouse and Sun Tzu.

30BC
Marseilles warrior->catapult Swazi harbor-.galley for now incase I can get a swat at the French.
Seige at Grenoble - our swords win 2 battles, one goes elite. We gain 30 gold from the French. The French are defeated! No settler on that galley. Swazi changed to worker. Lower Lux rate to 10%. Run governor to eradicate WW (just a game sort of bug, and a way around it). Then take governor off. This allows me to MM my cities appropriately.

Switches
Tuglea ->worker.
Rheims ->courthouse
Hlobane ->aqueduct

We are upto 105GPT, slightly more than at the end of the GA. OK, a break before going on.

IBT zz

10BC
Zimbabwe marketplace->Cathedral
Ulundi horseman->temple
Zunguin worker->worker
Palace gets another upgrade.
GPT upto 115, cash 511 but not enough to rush cath. Next turn.

10AD
Tuglea worker->worker
Umfolozi courthouse->harbor
Rush cath at Parishaka for 496 Gulp!

IBT Babs build the Great Lighthouse
30AD
Isandhlwana marketplace->horseman
Swazi worker->aqueduct
Gnome switch to courthouse
Parishaka Cathedral->coliseum

50AD
Not enough for cash rush at Parishaka, next turn.
One galley has done it's job so, I disband it.


Notes for next leader.
129GPT now, we should rush coliseum, next turn. We are of course the primary power and can play a builder game. We might even consider to take the brunt of the research once Education rolls up so we can lead the race to the wonders. We might even be able to out research the AI without any libraries right now with the economy we are starting to generate. :)

Oh, yes and we got a GL sitting around waiting for Sistine. :)

RBP 50AD
 
Good turn. I had the empire still mostly in military mode; switching it over to commerce is a fine decision. If you find governors useful, go ahead, although make sure you clear all of them before passing off (looks like you did.)

Colosseum costs 120, not 100; so if swapping to colosseum would waste 182 shields the city was already at 302. I usually use either a worker (10 shields) or Wealth (1 shield) to find out exactly how many shields a city has and needs.

3-for-1 tech brokering plus recouping half of the cost you paid: excellent, of course! The opportunities weren't there on my turn; way to bide our time. :goodjob:

great T-hawk shock value

:confused: :eek: :cry: :rolleyes: :crazyeye:

Can Parishaka make 20 shields in a turn? If so, this turn we can swap to marketplace, cash rush it, and swap back to colosseum which the city will finish building this turn.

Future plans - I guess Parishaka can build its marketplace while waiting for Theology to become available. After that, I'd recommend waiting on research until the cascade gets broken. If Sun Tzu's is finished before Invention becomes available, that will happen; if so, I would suggest beelining research to Astronomy to grab Copernicus (which can be hard to get in cascade from the earlier wonders), then Music Theory of course.

If cascade goes from Sun Tzu's to Leonardo's, I'd keep our research turned off until Leonardo's gets done somewhere. Do keep Parishaka prebuilding a Palace in case somebody does turn up with Astronomy or Music Theory before that happens - don't try to get in Parishaka's University in the middle of a wonder cascade.

Could we try to build Leonardo's somewhere ourselves (Ulundi?) to help kill the cascade?

Skyfish is up. Remember we're still on patch 1.14 (not a choice for Skyfish, of course ;) )
 
No! I played on 1.21 again. You got me again. :( Sorry, I can't play those turns again. Maybe Skyfish can play them and just skip me. They will likely be alot different on the old patch, techs anyway I'm sure.
 
Argh. Skyfish, I suppose you've tried all possibilities to get your game to run 1.21? (Rumor has it that the US patch works for some European players.) Have you tried just substituting in a 1.21 Civilization3.exe file? And I think there's one DLL that changes from 1.14 to 1.21. Skyfish, if you want to try this, PM me and I'll work out a way to get it to you.

I'd hate to lose Cartouche's efforts on that turn, but I'd also hate to have to drop Skyfish. (I know everyone else in the game can run 1.21.)
 
Think I'll affectionately call this my *Groundhog Day* SG, but I never get a chance to improve the play.:) I get to play again and the leave all my mistakes like letting Swasi go into disorder or my less than accurate calculations about Hanging Gardens. Or losing a sword when I should have attacked with a horseman incase it would retreat on the counter attack and save a unit. Or how about putting 5 workers clearing one jungle tile (does not divide out right does it). Ugh, I could go on and on with mistakes I made, yet had a decent outcome. However, without the Great Leader and the tech trade, it would just be ho hum.
 
Hrmm... I don't get it. Why would you want to let the governer have control, even only instantly?

If you're saying the problem is that the faces don't show accurately their condition after a lux deal is made or cut... the (better) solution is to bump tax rate up a notch then right back down. This "refreshes" the faces correctly. (I'm not sure if this is well known, or was in fact the problem)

If you mean you want to fire specialists now that you have new lux online - the gov would always choose clowns if any specialist is needed at all. That means you must manually change about half of those to taxmen. In other words, you have to look at each city individually anyway.

So what you mention is better than going into riot, but... I still don't see why I would turn that governor on even briefly. Am I missing something?

Charis
 
I used it for two events on this turn (a third is when changing government).

I controlled the decline from Golden Age where the conversion of declining commerce to luxuries is just too hard to calculate. (This automatically put 2 workers as entertainers in our wonder city after the GA, I would not know that is what I have to do, and cannot afford to lose the production).

The other event I used if for was to have the program recalculate the WW. After I finished off the French, I still had WW that was not actually supposed to be there, 33% to 50% WW was a fairly big concern. You can't manage your city correctly if residual effects are still hanging around, perhaps the movement of luxuries slider would have performed the function for me, that would be better, I will gladly try that.

I have noticed that the governor, if only controlling mood, does not rearrange your workers orders unless a mood adjustment is required, so basic MM is retained. It is true that existing specialists may be changed a bit but normally you don't carry too many of those and the primary purpose is to ensure against revolts and have as many workers in each city working, yes you still have to MM but alot of basic city clicking is performed and the specialist stick out like sore thumbs. So I only use this when I know that there are going to be many adjustments required or I cannot predict exactly what is required to keep an event, that I know is about to occur, from damaging productivity by revolt.

Some of the junk habits you pick up from playing civs that have waaay tooo many cities. :)
 
Played on plan and about 3 turns in it was apparent that things were going to differ slightly.

90BC We get the Great Leader from the swordsman that I lost in the other patch.

Later my tech deals went through although not quite as well as previously noted.


So we are back in business. Skyfish, you may want to consider going to 0% lux next turn after the coliseum completes in Parishaka. That will boost income another 30GPT with very little loss by MM in Zimbabwe. Then just build and collect cash until theology comes up and Sistine completes. You could be looking at about 200GPT by the end of your turns.

We can hand build a 600 shield wonder every 30 turns. So the best near ones are Bach(6/600),Shakespears(8/400) and Newton's(6/400), followed by University(4/200) and Copernicus(4/400). Self research to the closest culture tech might almost just time out perfect for us. Isandhlwana does not look like much right now and Zimbabwe may our better choices as a cascade blockers.

Good Luck!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/RPB8-114-50AD.SAV
 
OK, good. To refresh on my earlier comments:

Future plans - I guess Parishaka can build its marketplace while waiting for Theology to become available. After that, I'd recommend waiting on research until the cascade gets broken. If Sun Tzu's is finished before Invention becomes available, that will happen; if so, I would suggest beelining research to Astronomy to grab Copernicus (which can be hard to get in cascade from the earlier wonders), then Music Theory of course.

If cascade goes from Sun Tzu's to Leonardo's, I'd keep our research turned off until Leonardo's gets done somewhere. Do keep Parishaka prebuilding a Palace in case somebody does turn up with Astronomy or Music Theory before that happens - don't try to get in Parishaka's University in the middle of a wonder cascade.

Skyfish << UP NOW (haven't heard from you during this whole debate, hope you're out there)
Charis << On Deck
 
Sorry guys I was away on business ...in Paris :lol: :lol:
(true!)

Will get it and play tonight...
Will also try to patch I am so SORRY about bogging you down like this, I'll just retire if this goes on too long :(

Special thanks to CB for replaying, I feel like I am such a pain.
 
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