RBTS5 - Multiple Personality Disorder

[Winth]

lurker comment:

If you get a Dike in Oporto, then for more fun roll Portugal again, build Feitoria and go Golden Age again, this city would be... ouch. Like cows on steroids, or cows mixed with silver resource.

 

[sunrise089]

lurker's comment:
I assume the answer is no, but when you switch from a non-charismatic leader to a charismatic one, do you get to assign extra promotions to your existing units?



Are you using Bhruic's unofficial patch? The odd resource trading shouldn't happen then, it does occur in normal BTS 3.13 though.

This is a great, interesting game to follow, good luck!

RB games use no non-standard game files 99.9% of the time. This isn't an exception to the general rule.

lurker's comment:
Regarding Oporto, essentially this is the same as having grassland/river tiles with (electric) watermills in State Property, isn't it?
So while having this on sea is uncommon, it doesn't seem too overpowered to me. Adding dikes though...

The differences would be that we have our tiles much earlier, we have more tiles per city, we can stay in other Econ civics, we don't have to spend all the worker turns, and by far most of all, it's a true bonus. In other words, we aren't giving up the 2/1/7 town tile.

 

[ruff_hi]

As a Charismatic civ, I actually had enough XP to get the uber Medic III/Woodsman III combo, only to find that Recon units can't take the Woodsman III promotion. D'oh! Well, that's still a pretty nice healer anyway.

Ahh - I wondered why I didn't get the Woodie III option. Guess it is time to change my default medic unit to an ... err ... chariot?

Take a look at Oporto! The double-lighthouse + Moai Statues combo has this city rocking a crazy mixture of food, commerce, and shields. If we ever draw the Dutch and their overpowered unique building, this game is OVER!

Just finished a game as the Dutch on a 'big and small' map. Made all my cities coastal and whipped in dikes when available. Production went through the roof!

 

[Mesousa]

lurker's comment:

RB games use no non-standard game files 99.9% of the time. This isn't an exception to the general rule.

Well, then it's the resources trade bug introduced by the 3.13 patch. The AI will trade for resources it already has, and makes very wacky resource trades in general. Very easy to exploit, if one wants to.

Ahh - I wondered why I didn't get the Woodie III option. Guess it is time to change my default medic unit to an ... err ... chariot?

Only melee units can get Woodsman III, so if you want the Medic III / Woodsman III combo for maximum healing, a chariot won't help.

 

[Dantski]

Next turn we discover Rifling, and will also be 5 turns from our last civics swap, so we can pop into Nationhood and start drafting. We may want to spend those 5 turns in Theocracy as well, for a little extra XP. I'd probably go for Chemistry as our next tech, but Constitution/Democracy is another decent possibility. If we get a Great Engineer out of Madrid for our next Great Person, I'd hold it for use on the Statue of Liberty

I've never really used drafting to construct an army. The only experience I have with it is decimating my cities for 20-30 turns. I'd definitely switch to Theocracy at the same time.

Also I would probably head down the Constitution route sooner rather than later. Jails would be useful considering the path we're taking.

I'll get to this tomorrow afternoon. Unless I really feel like playing it today

 

[ruff_hi]

Only melee units can get Woodsman III, so if you want the Medic III / Woodsman III combo for maximum healing, a chariot won't help.

Ahh - ok. What healing power does a Medic III have? What about a Woodie III? And the combination of the two? Does someone have that information?

 

[oldsaxon]

(lurker)

Could someone explain to me what the point of maxing out food boxes is? Why bother to fill them up each time, just for the food to disappear later... what's wrong with having an empty granary?

 

[Sullla]

I've never really used drafting to construct an army. The only experience I have with it is decimating my cities for 20-30 turns. I'd definitely switch to Theocracy at the same time.

You're in luck, since I'm the one who literally wrote the book on drafting in Civ4. (Not kidding - I'm the person who was tabbed to do the drafting tests during pre-release.) If you have a few minutes to spend, you might benefit from reading these spot reports:

http://www.garath.net/Sullla/civ4_epic3_3.html
http://www.garath.net/Sullla/civ4_adventure11_4.html

The best time to draft is immediately after Rifling tech appears, before the arrival of factories (which send production through the roof) and infantry - which cost 2 population, much less draft friendly. Drafting is incredibly powerful in this game, especially when you have a lot of cities. I don't think very many people are even aware of that... you certainly don't have to decimate your cities to get it to work either!

Could someone explain to me what the point of maxing out food boxes is? Why bother to fill them up each time, just for the food to disappear later... what's wrong with having an empty granary?

Cities grow twice as fast with a granary; that is, you only need to fill up the food box halfway to grow to the next size. This is enormously important, and the reason why the granary is the most critical city improvement in the game. EVERY city needs a granary, no exceptions! Particularly true in the early game, since granaries allow cities to recover more quickly from Slavery's whippings.

The reason why I set all cities to max food immediately after each civ swap is to get those food boxes filled again, and allow for rapid growth. The sooner our cities get back to growing normally again, the sooner they'll reach larger sizes, which means more tiles worked, more specialists, more commerce and more production! Good news all around.

Ruff, the Woodsman III unit gets an additional healing benefit to all units on the same tile; I think it's another 10%. With Medic I, II, and III stacked on top of Woodsman III, you're getting a bonus 35% or so to healing, which is insane. It's tough to get that combo (only Jaguar warriors have a real shot), but extremely powerful if you can pull it off!

 

[ruff_hi]

Ruff, the Woodsman III unit gets an additional healing benefit to all units on the same tile; I think it's another 10%. With Medic I, II, and III stacked on top of Woodsman III, you're getting a bonus 35% or so to healing, which is insane. It's tough to get that combo (only Jaguar warriors have a real shot), but extremely powerful if you can pull it off!

I found this post which shows a Medic III, Woodie III will heal 50% outside of a city. That is, a unit that is full str 5 (eg cat) and currently at 1.8 will heal to 4.3 (1.8 + 2.5) in 1 turn. So any damaged unit will need a maximum of 2 turns to return to full str (in home territory, outside of city).

The reason why I set all cities to max food immediately after each civ swap is to get those food boxes filled again, and allow for rapid growth. The sooner our cities get back to growing normally again, the sooner they'll reach larger sizes, which means more tiles worked, more specialists, more commerce and more production! Good news all around.

I have also wondered about the *rush* to refill the food. I understand about granaries and the like but my initial thought was that the first population increase will be slow (ie fill the entire food bin) while other population increases will be 'as per normal'.

I guess that you are making a trade off between the reduced commerce and hammer production and the faster food against the double time for the initial population increase.

 

[darrelljs]

I'll add one more point to Sulla's on drafting...it goes great with the Globe in a high food city:

I think there was another high yield food resource not shown...this was Monty's capital from the PETA crusader's event. Once I researched Assembly Line the city quickly ran out of food. It is worth noting in BTS 3.13 drafting is even more powerful due to the changes to Grenadiers and Cavalry.

Darrell

 

[Dantski]

I'm more concerned with how to decide which cities to draft with and when to stop. Do we have any sight into Toku's cities so I'll see what I'll need?

 

[mystyfly]

Ahh - I wondered why I didn't get the Woodie III option. Guess it is time to change my default medic unit to an ... err ... chariot?

I find it quite nice to use my (initial) warriors. I just promote them the woody line (which about everyone does), attach a GG and start on Medic. Then I upgrade him to an axe and try to win some battles (woody-3 gives 2 first strikes, quite nice) to get to medic-3 which doesn't take that long.

I found this post which shows a Medic III, Woodie III will heal 50% outside of a city. That is, a unit that is full str 5 (eg cat) and currently at 1.8 will heal to 4.3 (1.8 + 2.5) in 1 turn. So any damaged unit will need a maximum of 2 turns to return to full str (in home territory, outside of city).

I have no information based on code or stuff (doubt I'd understand it, really, if I'd find it...) but it never took more than 2 turns to fully recover. Which is huge


Back to the game, move on, mighty... Napoleon of... Germany

 

[Swiss Pauli]

I'm more concerned with how to decide which cities to draft with and when to stop. Do we have any sight into Toku's cities so I'll see what I'll need?

Toku's capital had 1 CG3 LB and at least one CG2 LB in our last war, and it's on a hill, so I'd plan with 1.5 Rifles per defender, and assume 6 defenders. Three units can be drafted per turn for 3 per city at the cost of 1 pop (i.e. net 2 ). So pick cities way below the happy cap and spread the pain around. I'd let Kwa' train by whipping and overflow to bolster numbers. We're not emergency drafting here.

 

[Dantski]

Start off by microing a lot of cities. Sure some of our cities can grow 5-6 sizes and high growth is good there, but there’s a couple of cities which are almost at their happy cap already and they didn’t need to be running +10 food per turn. Hire a bunch of specialists instead.

Rifling comes in with a GE. I head down the democracy path with constitution

Darius offers us Silk for Copper. I accept. I also see what he’ll give me for Iron. Quite a lot it seems!

I make the civics change as suggested….and also switch from Slavery to Caste System. Seems more beneficial to us. Unfortunately I forget to also switch to Christianity before the first turn of drafting (I swear it automatically put you into a religion before) so they only come out with 1 XP.

I turn research down so we can upgrade our veteran units.

Same turn Constitution comes in, I re-declare on Toku.

Pop a GS, leave him sleeping in Madrid right now. Figure a GA is best use for him although he can bulb 3000 beakers on Sci Method.

Take Toku’s small island city marching straight off the Galleon with no losses.

On the final turn I squash Nagasaki with a small scratch on my C2 CR3 Rifleman who took out their CG3 longbow.

Toku has a galley pair just east of Nagasaki, they aren’t carrying anything.

I only did 2 rounds of drafting. KwaD produced a few more and the rest are upgraded from our old units. Most of them sit in Nagasaki.

Peter lost another city this turnset to Shaka.

Peter/Sury/Darius are all willing to trade Sci Method. I held off for now because I built a couple of Monastaries.

Also the war should be very fast with Toku now he’s down to 4 cities, changing our civics back to normal ASAP would be best.

Lastly we still need to decide on where to put Nat Epic and Oxford. I'd put Oxford in Madrid and Globe+Nat Epic in Kyoto.

Archduke is UP!

p.s. IBT took a fairly long time this turnset. It seems to have started bogging down.

 

[TheArchduke]

Got it, I will play today.

I have bad news, I am unexpectedly away for quite some time from friday onwards, so I will need to drop out of the roster and lurk after this turnset.

I hope this is enough of a forewarning and I apologize for it. I would love to play till the end as I love this variant.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

I'm OOP from now until Friday inclusive...at least if the storm doesn't cancel my flight...

 

[Sullla]

I have bad news, I am unexpectedly away for quite some time from friday onwards, so I will need to drop out of the roster and lurk after this turnset.

Thanks for letting us know, Archduke. We'll miss having you as part of the team.

 

[TheArchduke]

I will play my turnset now. I will put Oxford in Madrid and Globe+Nat Epic in Kyoto as Dantski suggested.

 

[TheArchduke]

Everything looks fine. I will put Oxford into Madrid and National Epic+Globe into Kyoto.

1655 AD

starts with Shaka canceling our gems for horses and copper deal. I renegotiate for copper,horses and clams to keep the gems. *Screenie*

With the remaining cities of Toku no real challenge at all, I draft 1-2 more rifles and return to more peaceful civics at the last golden age turn. I return to Bureaucracy and Free Religion, although I was tempted to go for organized but I tried to resist the builder in me.

Also free religion enables to get SM from Survarayman for Guilds, Liberalism and Constitution, rather then getting it for some state of the art technology from Darius or Peter. *Screenie* We got 3 oil sources, one in the BFC of Madrid itself.

1660 AD

A rather quiet turn after the last, I capture Matsuyama for a gold source which should come in handy.

1665 AD

Peter demands Replaceable Parts and I politely decline. No chance we give up that tech, no?

1670 AD

I advance on Matsuma and discover Democracy. Ah well, Physics is uncovered by Darius, the tech bunny, so I have to decide on our next tech going for Communism. I dislike Mercantilism myself and the free Great Spy is nice, if only denying it to the AI.

1675 AD

We got another GG. I ponder a possible SoL buildplace, but apart from Rome our cities are low on production and Rome would mean, well 2 free specialists, yay. So I postpone that decision to the next player if at all. (We can´t wait 35 turns for completion with my turnset and whipping is out.

1680 AD

Irkutsk is taken by Shaka from Peter, seems like those guys are fighting for real.

1685

Japan is down to Shimonseki a tundra city which sole reason is to annoy us. And we get the herbalists event in an oil tile, Go figure! *Screenie*

1695

Tokuwaga is no more resulting in an immeadite wipe of our unhappiness.

1700

We discover Communism. And no Great Spy Darius is on a rampage.
Peter will trade chemistry with us, we should consider that.

I fear that Darius will get Infantry before we can have a go at him, but it is up the team to decide that.

I for one take my head and thank you guys for an excellent game, I will read on and follow but can´t participate actively.

 

[sunrise089]

I will be OOP from early Friday morning until Wednesday afternoon. Good luck!