RBTS6B - Finally Ready for Noble! (Team B)

[Ozbenno]

The problem (to me) with Great Lighthouse is that it only gives advantages to cities on the coast. How many are we going to have? If we have plenty it is good (as is Colossus).

There is no way we can afford to keep Joao's capital so we pillage it and then eventually raze it. I'm inclined to agree with Olodune, play a holding game against Joao and prioritise the Pyramids in the capital (or settle the stone city and build it there).

As I said before, I'm holding off playing until tomorrow so we can agree on a gameplan.

 

[mostly-harmless]

Fellow Natives, please pay attention: we got Masonry from a hut in my turnset.

I would say we go for razing and resettle. We cant do with suboptimal city placing for our variant.

Regarding the wonder route (Great Lighthouse) I would recommend to wait another turnset to have a better idea of our surrounding. If we do not find any seafood resources and there are no resources on coast tiles, but plenty of river for a trade network then the GL might not look so strong.
If we fix a strategy too early and find the map does not play along ...

We can settle the stone city and not have the Pyramids being built there. By then we will hopefully have sailing and stone is available in the capital.

mh

 

[Jabah]

Just a small tip regarding which forrest to chop.

Maybe at some point in a very late futur, you might have levee in your river cities..., so if you want to keep only 2 or 3 plain/grasshill forrest (depending on food surplus), better save the one next to the river.

Oh, and just in case you didn't notice in the initial thread (or somewhere else, but you should know it), Sullla has selected a map with (at least) 2 continents separated by 'astronomy' ocean...

Jabah

 

[Quotey]

lurker: Airports do not provide connection to the trade route network. I have tested this in WB.

 

[mostly-harmless]

Oh, was that Civ3 then?
mh

 

[Ozbenno]

I open the save and think what a nice capital we have and then realise the variant and get depressed.

Bronze Working in 11, Barracks in 4. All seems good.

Barracks completes and I start a warrior for homeland defence.

I bring our northern warrior back to scout the east.

BTW, another thought I had on making money in this game is to partially build wonders and get the cash when someone else builds them.

BW completes and I think about the choices here for a bit and go with Writing. Its on the way to most everything we need (chopping bonus, catatpults, Great Library).



No immediate signs of copper.

I pop a scout from a hut

Maybe Wang is east of us, or we have an unusual shaped island



Another hut give us a map of our south west. We find a seafood resource



I play until turn 40, 3000BC.

Writing is in 10, first DS in 2. I upped production to get it quicker so we can grow a bit quicker after it finishes.



After the DS, I think we either go settler for the stone or worker and build pyramids in capital. I just don't see us having the production power to be able to rush anyone yet. I started the DS the turn we got BW and it was 11 turns. We can double whip if we want but even then I just don't see it. But then again, this is Noble, the AI might not have Archers yet. Is it worth a gamble? It may well be worth it with the first DS, either he has warriors, in which case Joao loses, or he has archers and we just pillage and harass him with the DS, while building Pyramids.

For mine, I'd send the first DS to Joao and see how lucky we are. Then start a settler for the stone and build Pyramids there. If there was a way to trade link the stone to our capital I'd build it there. I just think if we wait for two DSs then Joao will have Archers for sure, the time is now (well in 2 turns anyway).

I've scouted out the east and there isn't anyone there, Wang must be east of Joao.

 

[Olodune]

Looking good

Got it.

I plan to play in 20 hours to let some feedback accrue. (I can play in a few hours if feedback is fast and furious ) I see three options at this point:

1)Finish Dog -> Joao and test our luck while building a settler for the stone.

2)Finish Dog, Double whip two more -> Joao with a committed force. This will slow down our expansion a great deal.

3)Ignore Joao. Settle the stone soonish.

In regards to current research is Sailing a higher priority than Writing?

 

[sunrise089]

For mine, I'd send the first DS to Joao and see how lucky we are. Then start a settler for the stone and build Pyramids there. If there was a way to trade link the stone to our capital I'd build it there. I just think if we wait for two DSs then Joao will have Archers for sure, the time is now (well in 2 turns anyway).

This plan is good. Lets please keep in mind our UU is very strong vs. warriors and very weak vs. archers. Any situation that lets us avoid archers is terrific, and if we feel waiting on 3 Dog's will not permit that, then we should send the single Dog in.

I'm happy with Pyramids in the other city - we need that GE, but after that we want all Great Scientists out of the capital, so why pollute the pool?

EDIT: Let's also play 15 or 20 turns for the rest of this first run through the roster, with the major exception that anyone is always free to stop for comments at a major decision.

Let's also try to keep to the traditional 24 hours "got-it" and 48 hours more to play system. If you need a skip/swap or some extra hours that's fine, but try and post first rather than leaving anyone hanging.

 

[Ozbenno]

Sailing will be an important tech but is of no use now (I think, it won't link stone city to the capital will it?).

I'm with plan 1. Even if he has archers we can pillage him and limit his expansion.

 

[sunrise089]

I think sailing will link the stone, but see my above post for why I think Pyramids in the cap does us little good.

 

[Ozbenno]

EDIT: Let's also play 15 or 20 turns for the rest of this first run through the roster, with the major exception that anyone is always free to stop for comments at a major decision.

In recent games, we have had the rule of playing somewhere in a range of turns (say 15-20) but stopping (where possible) at a discussion point, ie researching a tech, building a settler to enhance discussion. It seems to work well. Any love?

Let's also try to keep to the traditional 24 hours "got-it" and 48 hours more to play system. If you need a skip/swap or some extra hours that's fine, but try and post first rather than leaving anyone hanging.

As the strategy will be important here, do we want to have a 24/48 but also say that there is a minimum 24 hours between turns, to enable everyone to comment (if they want to). Quickly taken sets may not be optimal in this variant.

 

[Olodune]

Sailing should link the stone (as long as a coastal route is "revealed") and will allow for a trade route (+1 commerce in each city).

 

[Ozbenno]

I assume it links the river of the capital to the sea but doesn't the river have to fall completely in our cultural borders? I know that two cities on the same river aren't linked unless all squares of the river between the two cities are in your cultural control.

 

[Olodune]

I assume it links the river of the capital to the sea but doesn't the river have to fall completely in our cultural borders? I know that two cities on the same river aren't linked unless all squares of the river between the two cities are in your cultural control.

I had thought this was the rule, unless you have sailing -- I'll check now.

 

[Olodune]

I come bearing proof of trade linkage (with Sailing):

Rolled a random start:

Spoiler :

Capital is settled on a cow by a river, but with a fair distance to the sea:

We research sailing and settle a coastal city on a distant southern horse:

Cap gets the horse (and a trade route):

 

[Ozbenno]

Interesting, I'm not against having Pyramids in capital as GEs are always good, even if we're diluting the gene pool.

We will be able to build Pyramids easier in capital as well.

If we are going to do this, maybe Sailing is the way to go.

 

[sunrise089]

The sailing discussion is correct - cultural control needed before, not after.

The "play 15-20 turns" rule isn't really important, since I would like 10-turn sets once we make it through the first roster rotation. Of course stopping early is permitted (and requested) if there is a surprise or uncertain situation.

I don't want to force anyone to wait to play if it's obvious what to do next or if the discussion happens fast, but in general players should error on the side of "getting-it," having some discussion, and then playing within a reasonable period of time.

 

[mostly-harmless]

I would rather go for another DS and let the capital grow further before halting the growth with a settler. I don't think the city spot and the Pyramids re in immediate danger here in Noble. Also keep in mind we got Masonry from the hut, so we are well ahead of the usual schedule here.
If we don't attempt the rush now when we have an advantage in units, we might as well pack in. I don't think we will get another opportunity to out-produce or out-tech the AI in this game.
And also bring the warrior back north maybe. Always good in mopping up injured city defenders.

mh

 

[sunrise089]

If we don't attempt the rush now when we have an advantage in units, we might as well pack in.

Agree. However, the discussion has been whether or not a second Dog Soldier will actually give us an edge, or we would just be waiting for the AI to get archers before we attacked. I'm fine with a second one being built however if it doesn't throw off the timing of the attack.

I don't think we will get another opportunity to out-produce or out-tech the AI in this game.

I don't have a good handle of the BtS Noble tech rate, but I suspect Great Library+Academy+2 settled scientists+Bureaucracy+Representation will let us out-tech them for a bit. Liberalism+Nationalism (which is the ultimate goal) will certainly allow us to out-produce them with 3 protective muskets a turn.

And also bring the warrior back north maybe. Always good in mopping up injured city defenders.

Agree.

 

[mostly-harmless]

@ sunrise:
#1: Attack straight away, I would say. But still bring in as much troops as possible.
#2: You are probably right. I am just not at home at Noble.

@ all: The Hanging Gardens might be very nice to go for as well in the Pyramids city. They are cheaper than the pyramids, speeded up by stone as well, provide an extra pop point, that we could whip away and one health which is not such a big deal. On top of that it would double our Great Engineer points.

I think Pyramids and possibly Gardens in the capital and Great Lighthouse & Great Lib in Stone city. If the Great Scientist pool gets polluted with Merchants, so be it. A great merchant will means loads of cash for deficit research.

Just some thoughts.

mh