Re: Civ Traits, Thanks And More

[Lord Peter]

Dear all,

I have been playing Civ III and the expansion, Play The World, for a while now, and have just been trying out some of the great Earth maps around at the moment. I have a few questions - and
it would be great if you could answer them.

1. Firstly, I was wondering, what do people think are the best civ traits?

2. Leading on from 1., I personally think that Industrious and Commercial, or Industrious and Militaristic are best - esp as Industrious means faster workers, and shield bonuses etc. I have
found the French a good civ for Industrious and Commercial (only Carthage is the other civ with the same traits). I was wondering also if there is anywhere a listing of the exact bonuses of
Industrious and Commercial - in the Civilopedia it just says that you get a bonus in cities and metros - but what is that? e.g. does Industrious = a 2 shield bonus with a city?

3. Thirdly, does anyone know of an editor/utility with which I can e.g. change the civ traits?

This is because I know that originally (and it says so in the Civ III manual) that the Romans were Militaristic and Industrious, but in the game it was changed to Militaristic and Commercial.
I would much prefer the former! - but how can I change it?

4. Finally, does anyone know what determines the base aggression of the computer AI Civs? Does Regicide mean the civs are inherently more aggressive? Or are the Militaristic/Expansionist civs e.g. Mongols inherently more aggressive than e.g. India (Commercial, Scientific?) I was just that I was playing an Earth Map yesterday, and I was the French based in South America, and where north Brazil is now, there was Gandi's Indian civ...and I have never come across a more peaceful computer AI. The Indians never attacked me, and rarely crossed my borders - and when they did, and I demanded a withdrawal, they accepted it, in comparison to 90% of the time with other computer civs who declare war on me when I order them to leave!
So what are the base determining factors for AI aggressiveness - does the difficulty level, civ traits, the difference in advancement between me and the AI civ, or the fact that I post the strongest defensive units in my cities - do these affect the inherent AI aggressiveness?

Many thanks, and it is great to see such an interesting, and cosmopolitan, community here. Well done to all of you for your dedication in making maps, answering questions and generally being helpful. I am, however, disgusted by some of the anti-other countries (and plain xenophobia) messages on this board and others - the moderator is right to post a sticky about it. Some of the anti-French stuff is vile. Generally, it is great to see such a thriving mix of people united in their love for a (mere) computer game!

Cheers,

Lord Peter

 

[DiamondzAndGunz]

I can probably help you out with 3 and 4.

3. The editor that comes with the game can do that. It should be in your Civ 3 PTW folder. Just open up the rules editor, go to the Civilizations tab, and change the traits and anything else you see fit. Then, just save it as a scenario, load it up, and play with your changes.

4. Well, the different play settings don't really affect the agressiveness of the AI. It isn't really set the handle any of the quick game modes, such as regicide. They are mainly there for quick Multiplayer games vs humans. But, all civs have set agression levels, and you can check/change those in the editor as well.

 

[elementgoo]

I find that Industrias-Scientific is good. I play with ottomans because the Sipha ROCKS!

 

[Panda]

Welcome to CFC

1. My personal favourite combo is Industrious/Religious, ie, the Egyptians. Industrious, like you stated, for the faster workers, is great especially on large and huge maps. Religious for cheap temples & cathedrals plus the one turn anarchy when changing government.

But essentially, it depends on your playing style. For warmongering, Militaristic is a great trait, and for peaceful building and research, Scientific advisable.

2. The shield bonus is applied to the centre tile of the city, ie the one which always produces something. While it's usually 2 food, 1 shield and 2 commerce, for Industrious civs it's 2f-2s-2c.

3. The editor which comes with the game is quite good.

Please note that if you change the rules under PTW your results won't be listed in the Hall of Fame. (At least it's like that in PTW 1.14)

4. Each civ has it's own aggression level, something you can check out (and change) with the editor as well. For example, Germany and the Aztecs are among the most aggressive civs, while France is one of the most peaceful.

The relations you currently have with a rival civ also influence AI decissions. If they're furious with you, they're almost sure to declare war if you demand a withdrawl. Likewise does your military strength affect decissions - if you have a weak military, the AI civs will bully you time after time.

I can't comment on the difficuilty level affecting AI diplomacy.

I hope that helped. Happy civin!

 

[America444]

and the

1. Firstly, I was wondering, what do people think are the best civ traits?

i think the best traits are scientific and expansionist but scientific and industrious are good or even better.

3. Thirdly, does anyone know of an editor/utility with which I can e.g. change the civ traits?

as DiamondAndGunz said the editor can change that under the civilizations catagory(i think)in the rules editor.

4. Finally, does anyone know what determines the base aggression of the computer AI Civs?

also in the editor and also under civilizations catagory.

 

[Tiger_Nation]

my fav traits are scientific industrious and commercial any of them work but i just don't like using the koreans you can't pronounce their city names and i don't use much arty so their uu is useless to me.

 

[Gainy]

i agree totally with panda. on everything. ull find that civ traits dontr affect their aggression, there is just a bar that can be set to aggressive n stuff. (india are the least aggressive along with france)

 

[Mullet Crusader]

Industrious and Religious (in that order) are undoubtedly the best, but i prefer Militarist/Religious, heh heh heh heh.

 

[YNCS]

I like industrious so much I won't play a non-industrious civ. The other trait depends on what win I'm going for. If I'm playing warmonger, I chose scientific!. That's so I can get the military techs faster.

The only trait I'm not impressed by is expansionist. Sure, the scout at the beginning of the game is nice, until he tips over a hut and the barbarians kill him.

 

[DiamondzAndGunz]

Originally posted by YNCS
The only trait I'm not impressed by is expansionist. Sure, the scout at the beginning of the game is nice, until he tips over a hut and the barbarians kill him.

Scouts will never pop barbs from a hut. The only real danger to scouts is those barb camps.

 

[Darkness]

@YNCS
You should try expansionist on a huge pangaea map. It works great! I tried that in my current game and I got all ancient age techs except Republic and Literature by 800 BC and the AI is way behind in techs....

 

[TheNiceOne]

Originally posted by YNCS
The only trait I'm not impressed by is expansionist. Sure, the scout at the beginning of the game is nice, until he tips over a hut and the barbarians kill him.

Expansionist is certainly the hardest trait to understand and use to its full potential - something that you statement shows.

If you had really tried using expansionist as it should be used, and built several additional scouts you would've probably seen that a expansionist means much more than tha fast-moving unit.

It also means that you get better results from goody huts than other civs, and you never get barbarians. On the higher difficulty levels (where I play), I seldom dare to pop the huts with my warriors since any barbarians will normally kill them. So with expansionits, goody huts changes from something I generally avoid to something that can easily give a you a huge benefit.

 

[Stapel]

On higher levels, the expansionist trait comes in very handy! Especially on large continents. Science to the minimum, build like 8 scouts to auto-explore an wait until the techs come in.

 

[Louis XXIV]

The best traits are:

Industrious
The faster workers are very valuble. The best thing is this trait fits every person's play style, as everyone needs workers. The extra production can be as much a penalty as a bonus, as it means extra pollution.

Religious
I just like cheap temples, but the reduced anarchy in gov switches is highly useful, especially if you like to switch Govs a lot.

Commercial
This trait, like Industrious, fits everyones play style. It will, simply, get you more money with free commerce. It will also help prevent you from loosing this money by reduced corruption. This can give you a TON of money each turn. But this trait can't be used as a "game-breaker" like Religious or Industrious can.

Expansionist
Although I would say this trait would normally be worse than I'm placing it, I do this because of one thing. Multiplayer. In a PBEM game, Scouts can be invaluble early in a game.

Scientific
This is useful, but not great. Scientific gives you a free tech each era, which is useful in a close game. It gives you cheap libraries, but Temples might be better. It fits every play syle, if you build Libraries instead of Temples

Militaristic
This trait is a waste unless you plan to be at war a lot. If you are person who wants one war of expansion, any war if you get attacked, and maybe a war to win the game, DON'T PLAY MILITARISTIC. This trait increases the chances of winning battles. It does this by increased promotions, cheap Barracks, and cheap Walls. It does add cheap Harbors and Airports, which are nice, but not as good as cheap Temples.

In conclusion, these are my favorite traits. But don't just go by traits. Rel., Ind. is the best combination, but the War Chariot is not very good. Ind., Exp. is the best Multiplayer traits, but the F-15 isn't very important.

 

[Dwarven Zerker]

I think it's pretty hard to say which traits are best and which aren't as it depends upon play styles. Warmongers will find Militaristic much more valuable than me as I tend to be a builder. I really like the scientific trait as cheap libraries allow me to do a couple of things simultaneously. It obviously increases my beakers but it also produces culture faster than a temple and is cheaper than temples for a scientific civ to build. Culture from a library makes the first border expansion one turn earlier and allows me to be sure that my border cities won't flip to the neighboring civ (instead other civs border cities usually flip to me by the time my nearest city reaches 100 or 150 CP.)

You can see that I value the Sci. trait higher but that's just my play style (for now.) I do agree that Industrious is a trait that nearly everyone will be happy with though.

 

[Dwarven Zerker]

Edit: Double Post (whoops!)

 

[Paalikles]

Originally posted by Lord Peter

4. Finally, does anyone know what determines the base aggression of the computer AI Civs?

Here you go:

Civ3 War Academy: AI attitude exposed

No need to look in the editor, research has been completed

 

[Anti-EUA]

hi! well, i am playing egypt now and loving it! ind/rel is just great lord peter. i find religious better than expansionit at ancient times.

 

[Uncle Dynamite]

I used to play the Romans in 3/4s of my games until I tried the Chinese, and now I'm pretty much addicted to anything with "Industrious" listed as a trait. Non-industrious workers are almost intolerably slow compared to those of civilizations with the trait, since infrastructural improvements literally pop out workers under an industrious civilization. Your initial works can irrigate, mine, and pave two or three squares around your city while also building the road to your future city all by itself, even before your initial settler is built. I think the infrastructural boost alone, not to mention the shield bonuses, to industrious civilizations can really push you further than the other traits can, which is why China and Persia can become such pains in single-player games.

But no need to continue on something that has already been said. The other traits depends heavily on your playstyle: religious for culture, scientific for cultural/spaceship, militaristic for domination/conquest, and expansionist for Pangea maps. I have not played commercial civilizations since getting PTW, although Carthage is my next civilization to try out. In any case, I have heard that the commercial trait got a nice boost, although I'm not exactly sure how. So if anyone could give us more information, I would certainly be thankful as well. Maybe I can return to the days of Roman life (although I agree, the Romans should have been Militaristic and Industrious).

Uncle Dynamite

 

[lord42]

Commercial then industrious are best.
Industrious is rather obvious but I feel commercial is generally under rated.
The extra cash from commercial actually helps your science more then the scientific trait does!{Money to buy or reaserch tech as based on lv}
Also the ability to rush build huge forces is very helpfull.{And very viable at +300 to +400 gpt with reaserch maxed at 4 turns in the middle ages!}
Heck I've hit 900+ gpt in the modern era.