Re: Civ Traits, Thanks And More
- Thread starter Lord Peter
- Start date
Almost everybody think the industrious trait is the best one. So do I !
I always play industrious civs (just one exception : I like Japan very much - samurais & "the wheel"). Industrious means your production of food and shield will be better during about the 2/3 of the game... and especially during the 30/50 first one !! THAT is the most important thing about the industrious trait : no trait is better than industrious for your initial "city expansion"...
"Religious" and "scientific" are my second favorite traits, ex-aequo... "Scientifics" gives you more culture points... but later. Religious gives you an earlier benefit for your frontier growth... but "scientific" increases them quicker, from the middle of the game. "Religious" makes you win about 6-12 turns of anarchy ; "scientific" makes you win about 15-20 turns of research... Etc. AND, I dislike WC as much as Immortals... Hard to choose !
"Expansionnist" is really good... if you have a big pangea and if you build enough scouts ! (When I play an expansionnist civ, I first build 2 more scouts). And I think it becomes more and more interesting as much as the level increases. One thing makes me angry : when you play an expansionnist civ, you often have a huge advance in techs, during the ancient age... but nonone can pay for these techs !!
"Commercial" is pretty good... but, IMHO, it absolutely has to be combinated with an "early times building trait" (Industrious or Religious) or with a "warmonger way of life" ! What's the interest of reducing the corruption of a huge empire... if you don't first build it ? The, play the French, the Indians... or destroy your neighbors.
"Militaristic" should be reserved to players who love and who know how to make war all the time... Lots of elite troops, more GL... cool ! But if you just make 3 or 4 wars during the whole game, forget it !
In fact, except for the industrious trait, the other ones are probably equal : it depends on the kind of game you want to play... as everybody says ! I often play egyptians, persians and french : good balance to build and fight when you need (or want) to. Americans for the large and huge maps. But I sometimes take japan, china or even iroquois to have a good bloobath !!
I always play industrious civs (just one exception : I like Japan very much - samurais & "the wheel"). Industrious means your production of food and shield will be better during about the 2/3 of the game... and especially during the 30/50 first one !! THAT is the most important thing about the industrious trait : no trait is better than industrious for your initial "city expansion"...
"Religious" and "scientific" are my second favorite traits, ex-aequo... "Scientifics" gives you more culture points... but later. Religious gives you an earlier benefit for your frontier growth... but "scientific" increases them quicker, from the middle of the game. "Religious" makes you win about 6-12 turns of anarchy ; "scientific" makes you win about 15-20 turns of research... Etc. AND, I dislike WC as much as Immortals... Hard to choose !
"Expansionnist" is really good... if you have a big pangea and if you build enough scouts ! (When I play an expansionnist civ, I first build 2 more scouts). And I think it becomes more and more interesting as much as the level increases. One thing makes me angry : when you play an expansionnist civ, you often have a huge advance in techs, during the ancient age... but nonone can pay for these techs !!
"Commercial" is pretty good... but, IMHO, it absolutely has to be combinated with an "early times building trait" (Industrious or Religious) or with a "warmonger way of life" ! What's the interest of reducing the corruption of a huge empire... if you don't first build it ? The, play the French, the Indians... or destroy your neighbors.
"Militaristic" should be reserved to players who love and who know how to make war all the time... Lots of elite troops, more GL... cool ! But if you just make 3 or 4 wars during the whole game, forget it !
In fact, except for the industrious trait, the other ones are probably equal : it depends on the kind of game you want to play... as everybody says ! I often play egyptians, persians and french : good balance to build and fight when you need (or want) to. Americans for the large and huge maps. But I sometimes take japan, china or even iroquois to have a good bloobath !!
nullspace
King
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2002
- Messages
- 728
These are my thoughts on the traits:
Religious is the best. Cheap temples are great for border expansions and getting a start on culture. Culture from temples doubles in very few turns if you build them early enough. They're so easy to build, it only takes 10 shields and a pop rush for a religious temple. The happiness is nice, too. Cheap cathedrals are good, too. You get a lot of happiness for very few shields, especially if you build Sistene (which I always try to do if I'm religious). And the shortened anarchy basically gives your whole civ free turns it wouldn't have otherwise. It allows you to switch to the appropriate government whenever you want, like Despotism -> Monarchy -> Republic -> Democracy. If I'm not a religois civ, I ususally go Despotism -> Republic and stay there because changing to the other governments isn't worth the turns of anarchy.
Industrious is right behind Religious. Both of these traits are helpful in any strategy and are helpful throughout the game. Doubling the speed of your workers has very obvious benefits, especially because one of the units you start the game with is a worker. Because their workers are twice as good, on turn zero, an industrius civ is 50% stronger then any other civ. The bonus shields for cities and metropolises are nice, but not a big deal.
Militaristic and Scientific are nice traits if they fit your strategy, but they aren't useful all the time the way industrius and religious are. Militaristic is good if you fight a lot. Easier promotions give you better fighters and a better chance at a great leaders, but only if you are fighting. The cheaper buildings aren't very important because barracks are pretty cheap anyway, and there's not much reason to build walls or coastal fortresses at all. Harbors are nice, though.
Scientific is good mainly if you're going to do your own research. In other words, it's not that great on deity. Scientific gives you a cheap culture building like religious, but libraries come later than temples, so they don't have the variety of uses that cheap temples do (border expansion, very early culture double). You don't get any benefit at all from scientific until near the end of the ancient era when you get literature, and that's the most critical part of the game. The free techs at each era are cool, especially if you can turn them into good trade opportunities.
Commercial is a not a very good trait because it has a very slow start. The extra trade doesn't kick in until you have cites and metropolises, and even then it is a rather small 2 or 3 trade per city. The reduced corruption doesn't really help until you have many cities in a large empire. The thing is, if you have a large number of big cities, you're already in a winning position, and the commercial trait won't really make a difference whether you win or lose. And while you were on your way to the winning position (when the cities were small and few) commercial didn't help much at all. Yeah, having a large, efficient empire is fun, but I don't think commercial really helps win games.
Expansionist can only compete with the other traits on a big pangea map, and even then, its benefits depend on the luck of the huts. Techs and settlers are nice, but on harder difficulties, you're much more likely to get gold, warriors, maps, or nothing. Exploring with scouts will help you get more contacts and a better map than other civs, and if you're carefull with diplomacy, these can be traded effectively. But still, it's all over in the ancient age, and expansionistic doesn't help at all after that.
Religious is the best. Cheap temples are great for border expansions and getting a start on culture. Culture from temples doubles in very few turns if you build them early enough. They're so easy to build, it only takes 10 shields and a pop rush for a religious temple. The happiness is nice, too. Cheap cathedrals are good, too. You get a lot of happiness for very few shields, especially if you build Sistene (which I always try to do if I'm religious). And the shortened anarchy basically gives your whole civ free turns it wouldn't have otherwise. It allows you to switch to the appropriate government whenever you want, like Despotism -> Monarchy -> Republic -> Democracy. If I'm not a religois civ, I ususally go Despotism -> Republic and stay there because changing to the other governments isn't worth the turns of anarchy.
Industrious is right behind Religious. Both of these traits are helpful in any strategy and are helpful throughout the game. Doubling the speed of your workers has very obvious benefits, especially because one of the units you start the game with is a worker. Because their workers are twice as good, on turn zero, an industrius civ is 50% stronger then any other civ. The bonus shields for cities and metropolises are nice, but not a big deal.
Militaristic and Scientific are nice traits if they fit your strategy, but they aren't useful all the time the way industrius and religious are. Militaristic is good if you fight a lot. Easier promotions give you better fighters and a better chance at a great leaders, but only if you are fighting. The cheaper buildings aren't very important because barracks are pretty cheap anyway, and there's not much reason to build walls or coastal fortresses at all. Harbors are nice, though.
Scientific is good mainly if you're going to do your own research. In other words, it's not that great on deity. Scientific gives you a cheap culture building like religious, but libraries come later than temples, so they don't have the variety of uses that cheap temples do (border expansion, very early culture double). You don't get any benefit at all from scientific until near the end of the ancient era when you get literature, and that's the most critical part of the game. The free techs at each era are cool, especially if you can turn them into good trade opportunities.
Commercial is a not a very good trait because it has a very slow start. The extra trade doesn't kick in until you have cites and metropolises, and even then it is a rather small 2 or 3 trade per city. The reduced corruption doesn't really help until you have many cities in a large empire. The thing is, if you have a large number of big cities, you're already in a winning position, and the commercial trait won't really make a difference whether you win or lose. And while you were on your way to the winning position (when the cities were small and few) commercial didn't help much at all. Yeah, having a large, efficient empire is fun, but I don't think commercial really helps win games.
Expansionist can only compete with the other traits on a big pangea map, and even then, its benefits depend on the luck of the huts. Techs and settlers are nice, but on harder difficulties, you're much more likely to get gold, warriors, maps, or nothing. Exploring with scouts will help you get more contacts and a better map than other civs, and if you're carefull with diplomacy, these can be traded effectively. But still, it's all over in the ancient age, and expansionistic doesn't help at all after that.
cavemanf16
Grand Poobah
I go for Religious and Industrious or Scientific. To me, Religious is to darn useful with that one turn government flip and bonus to keeping people happy that I really dislike playing as Civ's without that trait, but if I do I combine Industrious (usually, sometimes Scientific) with Militaristic or Expansionist.
I generally don't play as a Commercial civ, but that's 'cause I don't like many of the Commercial Civ's UU's.
I generally don't play as a Commercial civ, but that's 'cause I don't like many of the Commercial Civ's UU's.
elpadrino87
Warlord
Ever since I started playing as Persia, I've become hooked to the industrious trait, because now I'm so used to having one worker complete a road in two turns, it's become a bit more difficult to play a non-industrious civ. Also, expansionistic I never really saw as an important trait until I started playing the higher levels of Civ III. It's sooooo much better to not have to worry about having barbarians popping out of goody huts all the time, and expansion is especially key in the early game. This is explained better in one of the War Academy articles, I think it was Cracker's Opening Plays or something like that.
The onyl trait that I have to have is Religious. The reduced anarchy is way too valuable to pass up. It comes in handy for War weariness and the ability to go to war quickly. I have also had a lot of luck with the expan. and the sci. traits. I am currently playing a game as Spain. ( Rel + Comm). So far it is going well, but it is early.
IceCreamEmperor
Chieftain
Another important benefit of the Industrious trait is that any slave workers you capture (or buy) will be just as competent as a regular worker from a non-Industrious civ. This isn't really a seperate benefit, since it's related to your own worker speed, but it can be extremely helpful to any strategy that involves a lot of 'aggressive expansion.' It also makes having a late-game empire of only slaves that much more palatable.
Generally, I think that all the traits are close to well-balanced, with the obvious exception of Industrious and the arguable exception of Religious. Expansionist is map-dependant, but all the rest come in handy in most games.
Generally, I think that all the traits are close to well-balanced, with the obvious exception of Industrious and the arguable exception of Religious. Expansionist is map-dependant, but all the rest come in handy in most games.
