RE - Not another Roman scenario

[mitsho]

I know, there are many 'what if rome had survived'-scenarios in development. But I got an idea and want to hear YOUR opinion.
My idea is a bit different:

What would be, if Rome would have been 'born' 1000 years after in real history? I mean, if Ceasar, Scipio, Marius and all the other 'great Romans' would have been born in 400 AD? And just then, Rome would begin to expand out of Italy?

I hope it's clear what I mean? Anyways, I have rashly made a map:

explanation: I had to use some colours twice (thrice) :
red: Rome
wine red: Ptolemaians (Egypt)
light green: Greece and Scandinavia
dark green: Aquitania and Seleukia
dark blue: Anglo-saxons and Parthians/Sassanidians/Persians
light blue: Russia and Venezia
orange: Genoa
brown: Carthago
dark yellow: vandals (in spain) and turks
light yellow: Suebons (Germans)
pink: Allamans (Germans)
dark teal: Franks
Light teal: Burgundians
purple: Celts, Goths and Arabians
violet: Thrace
+ the mongolians (which I forgot on the map)

Arghh, I really need a better map?

I'f like to have some suggestions of some of the history cracks of this forum (Xen, Amenhotep, TLC, ...) please help me! I think I'll make this scenario.
If you count the above civs, we come to the number of 23 civs. That's simply to many. So, my question. Which civs shall be thrown into the bin?

The rules of the scenario will stay (you can play to the modern age), if possible for me, I'll edit another government into, 'imperialism', nothing special, only communal corruption (for Venezia and Genoa).

You see, I only have some rough ideas, nothing concrete!

What do you think?

mfG mitsho

 

[Corn Shucker]

well from my view it looks quite exciting! I'm looking forward to seeing it finished i love roman scenerios

 

[Louis XXIV]

Sounds interesting, I'm willing to help, if you need it.

 

[mitsho]

I will need it. And for now I need an answer to 'which civ to kick out?' I have made the city placement for some civs that will be in, but I am waiting with the others, cause I couldn't decide...

mfG mitsho

 

[Louis XXIV]

Maybe Genoa?

BTW, did the Franks knock the Celts out of France?

 

[Komori]

I found this idea much interesting. A bit, uh, absurd... The bases of it and all. But a good idea anyway.
Let's start with... No Roman Empire, no christ.
Can you imagine the world without christ? I can't. The catholic church is the one Roman entity that last till nowadays. that, and the eagle most contries carry in their shields.
Ok, maybe the catholic church only became roman in the late empire, but it was roman anyway. Oficial religion of the empire.

Well, I guess you could make Christ fight against Arabians? But, hm, they were very less tolerant religiously than rome so I suppose that wouldn't happen at all. without that, european barbarians wouldn't evolve to midle ages kingdoms. God, so many diferences. But let's think, shall we?

1- No roman empire, Cartago would grow. A Lot. Cartago could be at war with the egyptians by now, if not controlling it (Egypt would be really weak at this time). Carthago against Arabs as a war there seens good. And it takes egypt out of scenary.
2- No roman empire, barbarians, when settled down, would probably start as independent state cities, and then perhaps start a republic. The more agressives would probably start to make empire efforts, following Carthago example, probably those in Iberia and closer to carthago, making war with carthago there, must likely.
3- War in england, most certainly. I would take some celts out and included vikings cities. Hey, there is myths they could have colonized parts of America, what would keep them from creating few cities where the celts were? You may even wipe the celts out. if you need.
4- Greeks either would be stronger, or had fallen. I'd bet in being stronger. So take a few more civs out giving space to greece, who would make the one bigger competitor to Carthago in the Mediterean sea. You can take goths out, I suppose. And those dark greens there, if not to replace it with greeks, merely because you need to take people out there. too crowded.

Anyway, this is just how I thing it would develop. It's a really interesting What If, and I'd love to help more...

 

[mitsho]

really?
1- Christ would have lived anyways, and then they would've missionated, so the ptolomaians are christian, the carthaginian (why not?) the greeks (partly) and the romans (partly).

@Carthago question: I made my map out of some thoughts: the followers of the Alexander the Great-Empire would've survived 200 years longer. So there comes Seleukia, Ptolemaia and Thrace. Some Greek states would've gained Independence and fromed a Republic. The barbarians would've come in.... (and that's where I stopped thinking. So I make Kastilia from the Vandals), Aquitania is and stays a christian 'special' state ( a sect). Franks become French, the two german tribes stay. What to do with Goth/Bulgaria?

2 Oh, I already talked about it.

3 Ok, So I merge Celts and Scandinavia into Scandinavia (civ count 22)

4 you heard my opinion.

About the map. Does anyone knows a good one? I have taken one, but it's one with jungles in germany and other such things (to give the resources, it should be playable till modern age!)

But I'm not totally confident!

this map

mfG mitsho

 

[mitsho]

ok, I have tried a bit more and took the rise of rome-map:

But I might have to redo it. The turns seem to go long! (do I have too many cities?)

mfG mitsho

 

[AUGUSTUSAM]

I would change the Mongols to the Huns if you are starting around 400 A.D. Huns were a power at this point with Atilla and the Mongols I do not believe became a major player until about 7-800 years later. The Vandals set up a Kingdom in Africa and I believe Carthage was a part of it, so you could change that. The Suevi had a kingdom in Spain until the Visigoths conquered this area. So you could Move the Visigoths to Spain. The Vandals to Western Africa(Carthage), and the Huns in place of the Mongols since they were a driving force in uprooting many of the above Germanic Tribes.

Genoa and Venice were not true powers until the middle ages so you could throw those two out. The Anglo Saxons could have Britain, and with the Franks and Burgundians controlling the Belgium/France area there is no need for the Celts. You could surmise they were overrun by the Germanic migrations. Thrace could be thrown out as being in control of either Germanic/Sarmatian/or Hunnic peoples. Russia was not yet a unified State and would not be for many hundreds of years. The Arabs were not even yet a power. Think they came in the scene in the 600's or so.

Now that said, this is a what if scenario so you can pick and choose as you wish. Probably your best bet would be to just consolidate a bit a weed out the weaker Civ's you added...Genoa, Venice, Thrace, and the Celts. Just an opinion and in no way an endorsement to do so. Just some info to help YOU the modmaker, decide what you want to do!

 

[AUGUSTUSAM]

The other thing you could do is make a better FAll of the Roman Empire scenario than what we have so far seen...You could have both Eastern and Western Roman Empires but do not link them with a mutual protection pact. The Eastern Empire at the time of the Western Empire's demise had its own problems and sent little help to its Western counterpart. They also took some of the Western Empires best units. The Eastern Empire did not take a major hand in the West until Justinian's expensive wars of reconquest in Italy and Africa.

 

[mitsho]

I won't make a fall of rome scenario. Remember this is a rise of rome scenario set at around 200 AD. The arabs are put in because the scen can reach into the modern age, and so were the mongols (I didn't really thought about this yet)
The idea with the germanic tribes are skipped. And also the celts are thrown out! I now have Castilia, France, Burgundy, I am not sure about Aquitania and the two german tribes.

I perhaps will make some civs at war with each other (Spain and Carthago, Scandinavia and England) and so on.

mfG mitsho

 

[Androrc]

Originally posted by AUGUSTUSAM
I would change the Mongols to the Huns if you are starting around 400 A.D. Huns were a power at this point with Atilla and the Mongols I do not believe became a major player until about 7-800 years later. The Vandals set up a Kingdom in Africa and I believe Carthage was a part of it, so you could change that. The Suevi had a kingdom in Spain until the Visigoths conquered this area. So you could Move the Visigoths to Spain. The Vandals to Western Africa(Carthage), and the Huns in place of the Mongols since they were a driving force in uprooting many of the above Germanic Tribes.

The Suevi actually had a kingdom in Portugal and Gallicia(which is a part of Spain, but is too small in comparison to it's Portuguese part to call it an spanish kingdom.

 

[Komori]

Well, I guess you do have too many cities there, I'm not sure but I belive fall of rome and medieval ages scenaries don't have so many cities in the very start of it... specially if you are planning to add more civs. I think you should keep only the important cities. Your call, anyway, but it sounds like it'll be too crowded.

 

[mitsho]

ok, You guess it. Scrap everything before. Forget it. I've reworked it:

1 - Rome (middle)
2 - Carthago (strong)
3 - Greece (middle)
4 - Egypt/Ptolemaians (weak to middle)
5 - Seleukia (weak)
6 - Persia/Sassanids (strong)
7 - Thrace (middle to strong)
8 - Celts (very weak)
9 - Iberians (weak to middle)

black - Venezia (weak to middle)
10 - Franks/France (middle)
11 - Scandinavians/Vikings (strong)
12 - English (Anglo-Saxons) (middle)
13 - Germans (middle)
14 - Poles (weak)
15 - Magyars (middle)
16 - Novgorod/Russia (weak to middle)
17 - Huns (middle)
18 - Turks (middle)
19 - Arabs (weak)

specials:
-Turks and Seleukia are in a locked war
-Turks start with one city, but much military
-so do the huns, they are at war with the Thrace (?)

-Magyars and Vikings will each get a wonder which will produce their UU (longboat, the chinese one) for free

-Celts and Iberians have a MPP
(-English and Vikings won't be at always war, but I hope the English will conquer england!)

-The tech tree will be the normal, everyone is at the beginning of the middle ages, some wonders will be renamed to 'european/roman'! Exceptions: Egypt, Carthago, Greece and Thrace will have one tech more!

-the map: I'll use the Rise of Rome map, with some changes (I hope I am allowed to do so?). The changes will be in Russia which consists of forest only atm and all the resources (luxury and strategic), that have to be placed (no aluminium, no uranium, etc) at the moment!)
Is there someone out there, who wants to do this. (Otherwise, I'll have to do... )

-Venice will get a own government to reduce corruption (just givin communal corruption), IF it's possible for me!

It now seems that I might want help....

Thoughts?

mfG mitsho

 

[mitsho]

ok, You guess it. Scrap everything before. Forget it. I've reworked it:

1 - Rome (middle)
2 - Carthago (strong)
3 - Greece (middle)
4 - Egypt/Ptolemaians (weak to middle)
5 - Seleukia (weak)
6 - Persia/Sassanids (strong)
7 - Thrace (middle to strong)
8 - Celts (very weak)
9 - Iberians (weak to middle)

black - Venezia (weak to middle)
10 - Franks/France (middle)
11 - Scandinavians/Vikings (strong)
12 - English (Anglo-Saxons) (middle)
13 - Germans (middle)
14 - Poles (weak)
15 - Magyars (middle)
16 - Novgorod/Russia (weak to middle)
17 - Huns (middle)
18 - Turks (middle)
19 - Arabs (weak)

specials:
-Turks and Seleukia are in a locked war
-Turks start with one city, but much military
-so do the huns, they are at war with the Thrace (?)

-Magyars and Vikings will each get a wonder which will produce their UU (longboat, the chinese one) for free

-Celts and Iberians have a MPP
(-English and Vikings won't be at always war, but I hope the English will conquer england!)

-The tech tree will be the normal, everyone is at the beginning of the middle ages, some wonders will be renamed to 'european/roman'! Exceptions: Egypt, Carthago, Greece and Thrace will have one tech more!

-the map: I'll use the Rise of Rome map, with some changes (I hope I am allowed to do so?). The changes will be in Russia which consists of forest only atm and all the resources (luxury and strategic), that have to be placed (no aluminium, no uranium, etc) at the moment!)
Is there someone out there, who wants to do this. (Otherwise, I'll have to do... )

-Venice will get a own government to reduce corruption (just givin communal corruption), IF it's possible for me!

It now seems that I might want help....

Thoughts?

mfG mitsho

 

[Xen]

the right part of Carthaginian territory- the part directlyl under spain to the atlantic caose should be Marituania, not part of Carthage

 

[mitsho]

@xen, are you referring to the old idea? note that I have posted a new one.

mfG mitsho

 

[Xen]

every idea- the area about 7 tiles west of carthage should all be a different nation

 

[mitsho]

no, and you know why? Because 20 civs are enough! Get it?

And the problem: I accidentially damaged the normal Rise of Rome-scenario. Can someone send (or upload it?) it to me please?

thx mitsho

EDIT: after a bit of work, i did it with the medieval conquest scenario-map. Content? no, is it possible to add a bit of Egypt?

mfG mitsho