Real Strategy (AI) 2.3.1

[MiAMi]

Edit. Change it into "INSERT OR REPLACE" here and in RST and it should work.

Thank you, I have not tested it in detail, but it seems to be working.

 

[V. Soma]

I had a fantastic test game:

RST test 3

RST mod + 2UPT from Stacking Overhaul mod
Smoother immortal mod difficulty
small map pangea
abundant resources
all victories

8 civs: Hungary, Ottomans, Inca, China, Mongols, Zulu, Gorgo, USA (Human), 4 CSs
I want wars!


t1

in the mid of pangea Hungary has 2 CSs near

Zulu and Ottomans (an human USA) are on the east,
others are crammed in the bigger west

t25

most civs has 2 cities

HUN, OTT, ZULU, GORGO go for CONQ

CHINA, INCA go for SCI

t40

civs have 3 cities

t55

civs have 4 cities

lots of campuses, a few encampments, no holy sites!

t60

Hungary vs Mongol war

t70

Gorgo attacks Hungary, Hungary makes peace with the Mongols
Gorgo has hoplites and captures a city
Matthias defends with many spears

t85

Greece-Hungary peace

Gorgo and China ara for Culture

t90

Ottoman vs Zulu war
Suleiman captures a city at start
Ottomans has a GG but not use it at battles
Shaka recaptures the city

t105

Ottoman-Zulu peace

civs: some holy sites, some culture

Mongol-China war
Genghis captures a city

Hungary-Greece war

t115

Ottoman-USA war

lots of wars going on!

China recaptures city and peace with Mongols

Ottomans conquer an USA city and makes peace

Greece-Hungary peace

world enters Renaissance

and now starts:

Inca/Greece vs Ottomans war (not serious)

Mongol vs Hungary war
Mongols advance and capture a city
and then another… these are main Hungarian cities…
and then peace

all these wars, and in the meantime Zulu are the biggest nation with 12 cities,
other bigs have 8-10

Inca goes for Religion! has many (24) cities converted
Only other religion is of USA, so Inca has good chance to make it

t160

Mongols have a new war vs CHina/Hungary
Matthias loses another city - he is down to 4 cities

I see Inca are strong, they have more techs than others and many cities

Mongols make peace with Hungary and defend vs China

Greece goes for SCI, Inca for REL, other AIs are CONQ

t175

Mongol-China peace

Ottoman-Zulu war but it is only a short one
(I guess the other Ottoman war has ended before)

it is hard to follow the many wars - now Mongolia again has war vs more civs
Hungary has good terrain and ENCs to defend
peace

Zulu also has a strong religion now

t200

there are many strong civs:
Greece, Ottomans, Inca, Zulu, Mongols are all big,
China is smaller but does OK

short wars again - the same enemies east and west…

Ottomans go for culture win and has 50% (!) at turn 220

t235

I see biplanes

Ottoman CV is at 60%

t 240

Greece has fighter

Ottoman CV is at 65%

Wow:
Mongol/Hungary vs Greece war
Hungary levies CS army captures Greek city
Mongolia also captures Greek city
this is very quick
there are 2 free cities in the middle of Greece
Greece is scattered and will face rebellions

Mongols get war from China and Zulu
Inca attacks Greece and captures city
Greece is in deep trouble
Mongols tanks capture Greek cities - Gorgo is down to 4 citites
another rebellion and Greece is only 3 small coastal cities

t280

Ottoman CV is 80%

Mongols has 1/6 SCI projects, strategy is CONQ though (with strong SCI)
Mongols a have 7 SPorts, Ottoman has 1

Most civs ar CONQ, Suleiman is of course CUL

t300

Greece is 1 city

Ottoman CV is down to 55%

Mongol has 2/6 SCI

t330

Ottoman CV is 70%

Mongols are 75 tech, other bigs are 70

it is peace time now

Ottomans also go for SCI beside CUL: 2/6 SCI

t340

Ottoman CV is 80% (Tourism: 1500, big Mongol culture is 350)

Mongol 3/6 SCI - now officially for SCI win

Zulu religion is strong, Inca will not have that REL win

t360

Ottoman CV is 90% (almost 2000 tourism/turn)
but then down to 85% (?)

Mongol 4/6 SCI

Ottomans also 4/6 SC, and 6/10 Diplo

war: China kills Greece!

t360

Ottoman CV is again 90%, Diplo is 8/10

t380

Ottoman CV is 95%

Mongol 5/6 SCI

and:
China/Inca-Ottoman war! (Suleiman attacked)

t400

big world war!
Mongol vs everone, Ottoman too, but also other civs ar vs each other

Ottoman CV is 97%
diplo is down to 7/10

Mongol nukes dropped on Inca!

t410

Mongol 6/6 SCI - I guess now is the final step going on but I can’t see that

Ottomans also 6/6 SCI CV is 98% (tourism is lower: 1600/t)
CV % is slowly going down…

Inca converted Zulu! USA still holds her religion though

so 3 victories are close to finish! Great!

also Mongolia gets nuked!

t430

Inca tried to convert USA, almost got it, but USA got back to all 4 cities her religion

t435

Ottoman CV is 99%

USA is down to 2 citites in religion

t440

Inca has converted all civs to Judaism!

Ottomans are 2 turns away from CV

3 civ exoplanet ships are traveling to SV at 1/turn all three

WOW!

 

[V. Soma]

here is log of Test 3

 

[Infixo]

1. Did you select the civs or was it random? Because they all are religion-disinterested, that is why noone went for holy sites early game. But there should be some eventually.
2. Nice twist with Inca. Most likely the result of the mod core seeig as other victories were „taken”, he switched. Very nice.
3. Too many CONQ, imho. Could be the result of other mods, however, because I don’t see so many CONQ usually.
4. Seems like time strategies are working fine. Basically, Renaissance/Industrial should be more peaceful, then again Modern and Atomic should see more wars.
5. How many civs did Inca finally converted? - ok, answered later. So, wait, did Inca actually win????
6. Interesting also that Ottomans managed to get 8/10 for diplo. I kind of feel that the consensus for vanilla game is that AIs are not good at gathering those points?
7. Nukes - awesome
8. Any planes actually in combat?
That was a really interesting game. Dang it, late game really awesome.

 

[Infixo]

guess now is the final step going on but I can’t see that

True, I must add a counter and speed to the panel.
But 6 projects completed means that they launched lasers. Because in GS there are 4, then only lasers? Or maybe they actually reached and won, then you saw others going 1 per turn?

 

[V. Soma]

1. Did you select the civs or was it random? Because they all are religion-disinterested, that is why noone went for holy sites early game. But there should be some eventually.

I carefully selected them to possibly have more wars... and yes, they did have them!

3. Too many CONQ, imho. Could be the result of other mods, however, because I don’t see so many CONQ usually.

I believe it is the nature of these civs selected.

4. Seems like time strategies are working fine. Basically, Renaissance/Industrial should be more peaceful, then again Modern and Atomic should see more wars.

I like it that there are wars at the end.

5. How many civs did Inca finally converted? - ok, answered later. So, wait, did Inca actually win????

Yes, they won, 2 turns befor China wuld have with CV.

6. Interesting also that Ottomans managed to get 8/10 for diplo. I kind of feel that the consensus for vanilla game is that AIs are not good at gathering those points?

I dunno about that, I have not many experience with that

7. Nukes - awesome

From and to the Mongols -

8. Any planes actually in combat?

I did not really watch that...

That was a really interesting game. Dang it, late game really awesome.

Such a suspense!

 

[V. Soma]

True, I must add a counter and speed to the panel.
But 6 projects completed means that they launched lasers. Because in GS there are 4, then only lasers? Or maybe they actually reached and won, then you saw others going 1 per turn?

No I guess they did not win this SV, as until the Inca religion victory only 30 turns have passed after 6/6...

 

[Infixo]

Yes, they won, 2 turns befor China wuld have with CV.

Amazing. AI winning religion on smaller maps in not uncommon, but with 8 civs, wow.

 

[Tovarish]

From what you are saying I guess that having mods that add custom buildings puts AI to disadvantage because it does not recognize benefits that are given by those buildings. Hence, it is not recommended to use such mods because already weak AI is too stupid to realize the benefits they give and advantages they offer. I am not talking about world wonders here, but any mod that adds any building in general. Am I right?

 

[Infixo]

From what you are saying I guess that having mods that add custom buildings puts AI to disadvantage because it does not recognize benefits that are given by those buildings. Hence, it is not recommended to use such mods because already weak AI is too stupid to realize the benefits they give and advantages they offer. I am not talking about world wonders here, but any mod that adds any building in general. Am I right?

No, I didn’t say that.
I answered the question if RST had any extra support for those. It doesn’t because there is not much possible via sql.
It doesn’t mean however that AI doesn’t score buildings or anything. AI scores each building, also from mods, using an internal algorithm that we won’t know until we gain access to the source code. So, if you ask a specific question „is ai considering something from building x”, the answer is: noone (except devs) knows. You can test it by observing logs, but it is a tedious process.

 

[V. Soma]

In the FT, what is "pan" in the top-left panel?

 

[V. Soma]

Oh, and can it be that when SR is 6 in the FT (Bottom left panel), then that means Science Victory?

 

[V. Soma]

test 4

I give you report of the end game, look at how Inca changes strategy...

t300

Inca has ca. 600/t sci, Hungary has 400, Ottomans have 470

Ottoman-Mongol war

t315

Inca has 1/6 of SV

soon Hungary also has 1/6 SV

t330

Hungary is at 2/6 SV!
(How is Inca?)

Hungary has 2 SPorts, Inca has 9 SPorts (!)

t340

Ottoman-Zulu war

big civs have 6000 military (Mongol, Ottoman, Inca)

t350

short war: Mongols-Hungary

Hungary has 3/6 SV, with SCI strategy
Inca still 1/6 oh, he changed to CONQ strategy…

Why did Inca change to Conquest strategy? He was leading in science!
And if so, why he doesn’t do wars? Does he want to win?

now Inca moved to 2/6 SV

t365

Hungary is 4/6 SV

t385

Hungary is 5/6 SV
Inca is 3/6 SV

there are wars but not much change on the map
Zulu and Mongolia are war-like, Inca not…

t410

Inca changes to Diplo strategy, has 6/10 DV

Hungary is 6/6 SV!
Oh, I believe this means SV victory! 6th step can be Exoplanet Expedition traveling

Inca is 4/6 SV

no other civ has SV project

 

[Qarisma]

So I noticed some strange behavior that might be the result of many other mods but I thought I'd point it out here. Some of the AI seemed to be using builders and great people to explore. Great people exploring is typically fine but they were sending out builders while there were lands in their territories that could be improved.

 

[V. Soma]

in my Test 5 game I have no war, not a single one!
(I will explain it why in report)

turn 230 Sweden wins religion on a tiny pangea map

 

[V. Soma]

test 5

tiny pangea, no barbs
smoother immortal

usual mods

Sweden, Frelanor, Inca, Canada
and human Maori

all victories but no domination!

I wanted a peaceful game - and so it went…

Fre - CUL
Swe - DIPLO
Canada - CUL
Inca - SCI

t100

peace all around

Fre - SCI (60/t)
Swe - DIPLO
Canada - DIPLO - though he is strong in culture
Inca - SCI (35/t)

t150

map is filled with cities

Canada switched to CUL (35% CV)

I checked relations:
everybody loves everybody…

Sweden allies with Maori

t230

many alliances

Sweden won RV…

/I play on/

t250

Canada is 60% CV - though changed to Diplo strategy
Frelanor also 60% CV (!)

t295

Frelanor had 100% CV for one turn - so that’s a win, I guess

Canada generates lots of Diplo favors but at 2/10 now

t357

Sweden wins diplo victory

Why Canada did not use his favors vs Sweden?

t385

Inca is 6/6 SV - science victory

*

see log attached

 

[Infixo]

In the FT, what is "pan" in the top-left panel?

Pantheon index. -1 if none. There is also Religion index close by.

 

[Infixo]

Oh, and can it be that when SR is 6 in the FT (Bottom left panel), then that means Science Victory?

Yes, it is Space Race. It shows how many SR projects were completed. Basically for vanilla and RF it should show 5/5 after the last mars part is sent (the game is won).
However, since in GS the logic was changed a bit, the function is tweaked a bit. It counts 4 main projects and then treats the travel as 2 extra projects. The point here is that I can't count lasers as they can be executed more than once and I need a firm progress indicator. So, when exoplanet is started it should show 4/6, when the rocket reaches 50%, then 5/6 and when it is at destination - 6/6 - game won.
So it seems that actually Mongols won the T3 game at turn 410

 

[V. Soma]

Yes, it is Space Race. It shows how many SR projects were completed. Basically for vanilla and RF it should show 5/5 after the last mars part is sent (the game is won).
However, since in GS the logic was changed a bit, the function is tweaked a bit. It counts 4 main projects and then treats the travel as 2 extra projects. The point here is that I can't count lasers as they can be executed more than once and I need a firm progress indicator. So, when exoplanet is started it should show 4/6, when the rocket reaches 50%, then 5/6 and when it is at destination - 6/6 - game won.
So it seems that actually Mongols won the T3 game at turn 410

Yeah

 

[Infixo]

Why did Inca change to Conquest strategy? He was leading in science!
And if so, why he doesn’t do wars? Does he want to win?

No, he wasn’t. Hungary was leading, Inca was 2nd. That means that he decreased a bit priority for science and apparently that was enough to trigger Conquest.
For this kind of questions the log is a must, numbers are important here.
Edit. Ah, one more thing. Late game, the Conquest strategy has a small boost called „desperate”. If another civ is close to victory (e.g. 3/6 of SR) and you are not, then it activates. He purpose here is to use last resort weapon - attack the winning civ. But in Civ6 it is hard to force a war, but strategically the change was correct. For some reasons, despite having 9 spaceports he could’t send more projects and fell behind.