Realism Invictus

[Ahnarras]

But i'm not a warmonger, i'm a carebear :3

I disabled tech transfer on the huge world map. Playing as egyptian, i have so many neighbours it just go way too fast for me. Every single tech is in blue :/
A godd civ IV game is a game where you can play a whole week and still don't see the middle age ^_^

 

[teks]

I just wanted to mention.
"Immunity to first strikes" is now very, very powerful. First strikes are given out in many support promotions, and immunity to them allows a single unit to ignore that could easily be 3-6 first strikes.

I don't knwo how promotions have changed since 3.1 but I'm huge fan of the 3.1 trained archers. There are several defensive promotions like motherland, and trench warfare, but trained archers is deceptively strong.

In the line you get:
a moderate strength bonus on par with the city garrison bonus
The better half of the first strike line = to 2-4 first strikes @ 5 XP.
Immunity to first strikes.
Large anti-mounted bonus (icing)

The immunity plus the 2-4 first strikes beats out the over defensive lines because it reduces the damage the unit would take after combat. Having a defensive unit that can beat an attacker is easy, but having a defensive unit that can take out multiple attackers is amazing.

there are plenty of amazing promotion lines, but I just wanted to bring that one out because it surprised me.

 

[Ambassador]

I second teks: Trained Archers doctrine is a must have. Better than any other doctrine available. With 3-4 archers with 3 TA promotions your stack is unassailable.

 

[pioswa]

I think file greenmod_atlas.dds is missing in art folder. Im using 4576 svn version.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

I think file greenmod_atlas.dds is missing in art folder. Im using 4576 svn version.

It shouldn't be, we never removed it. You might have accidentally deleted it in your local version - try updating once more, if it's missing it will be restored.

 

[HUNK]

Good mod. I love the industrial and modern eras. Some questions, about helicopters:

Basically, there are 3 types of choppers: attack, troops and maquinary.

Some units can do a double role, as Hind, attack and troops transport.

If it is possible, I would introduce more difference between them.

Example, Russian forces:

Troops transport: Mil Mi-8 Ok
Tank transport: Mil Mi-26 Ok
Attack: Mil Mi24 No. Upgrade Kamov K-50 Ok


The Hind is very good vs infantry (it's, literally, a tank), but not such effective vs tanks. A good choice to do that is the Mil Mi-28 (Havoc). A specifically antitank. The Kamov is a recient chopper, similar to Mil Mi-28. Kamov could be the upgrade of Mil Mi-28. The Hind should be available everytime. Mil Mi 24 havent been retired. The Hind's missions are double, transport and attack. The upgrade Kamov only can attack.

I miss a naval chopper, vs submarines. The Mil Mi-14 do the work (and to introduce as unit to a carrier). So,

Troops transport: Mil Mi-8
Tanks transport: Mil Mi-26
Attack and transport: Mil Mi-24
Attack: Mil Mi-28 (Upgrade: Kamov)
Naval: Mil Mi-14

Only the attack chopper should have large bonus vs tanks. The Hind could have some bonus vs tanks and a large vs infantry. The transport low defence vs tank, normal/some vs infantry.

At the moment, Kamov is the upgrade of Mil Mi-24, but is very bad decission to do that. It is more slow (4 mov Kamov vs 5 mov Hind) and not cargo (0 vs 1). The Hind is very useful to approach o to extract commandos o similar infantry.

Other forces can have their own, example, USA with Huey (similar to Hind).


PS Mil Mi-26 says: +50% vs tank when attack, but only can defend.

PS2 Penalty for crossing rivers or amphibious? to a helicopter? is a joke?

 

[Manco Capac]

Here are the horrors of including K-mod to any mod: barely enough time to arm against unfair rushes. For a first IMM game, this starts rather terribly wrong; it's either take a seat and roll the dice or build a huge stack from T1 and remain backward for the whole game.

I wonder if Karadoc will ever remove that horrible feature allowing AI's to rush with archers.

 

[Ahnarras]

Quick question: i saw you are doing some big chance to the agricultural system.
Is it included into the huge world map, or do you need first some testing on randomly generated map?

 

[keldath]

Tachywaxon,
you dont like kmod? does realism have kmod in it?

 

[HannibalBarka]

Here are the horrors of including K-mod to any mod: barely enough time to arm against unfair rushes. For a first IMM game, this starts rather terribly wrong; it's either take a seat and roll the dice or build a huge stack from T1 and remain backward for the whole game.

I wonder if Karadoc will ever remove that horrible feature allowing AI's to rush with archers.

Hummm, how many archers were you having in Paris?
RI is indeed very "risky". I usully play Emp with raging barb, and I almost never build a second city before having about 6-7 archers (need to fight barbs, protect my improvement and deter AI from attacking and be able to defend is they still attack). It may seBy doing so I gain a lot of XP for my archers and build a tradition. It may seem "waste" of ressources but it actually a good investment.
And in RI, you don't really need to rush founding cities because AI tend to build much fewer cities (than in vanilla), and in all cases as a human, you can't afford to build more than 4/5 cities

 

[Jwitti]

looks like he had three warriors... that MAY have been your problem

 

[Drakarska]

Hmnn, lol, just to add my 2 cents.. Indeed. I realize a lot of players consider Arch tech a waste of time, but IMHO, it's an absolute must in order to survive in RI. It's one of the techs that I will beeline in this mod.

@Keldath. Yuppers, KMOD is indeed in this mod.

 

[Daft73]

Agree with the last few posts...RI is simply too different to play a standard start, the same can be said about PAE(ancient timeline based mod). If you play anything remotely close to Civ Vanilla, you'll be restarting soon enough, or rage quitting if that suits..

 

[sjodster]

Ages ago I mentioned that the hotkeys needed to be reworked. Off the top of my head from this mornings play-through... Sentry (s), Automate Protect (s)...<---same keys outside of that I have not come across others.

I'm with Sathar on this one. The "double-booked" hotkeys create problems from time to time, with the "w" key being the most troublesome.

Fixed the "W" for slash-and-burn, it will now be Shift+W. Any other particularly troublesome you want us to fix?

Just in case anyone missed it, there is a new Hotkeys view in the Civilopedia under the Help section. It should aid in tracking down any remaining double-booked hotkeys. Unlike the original Sevopedia shortcuts page, this listing is derived directly from the ActionInfos so they will always be in sync with reality.

And quick thought: Instead of the current stack penalty system, have you considered simply giving units a -1% strength penalty per unit in the stack? The math isn't the same, I know, but I'm sure it could be balanced, and it would make it a lot easier to understand the system. Right now it's always a pain to get a stack right, involving several turns of moving units around until it's just below the next penalty level. Being able to just select all and immediately know the penalty level would be a lot simpler.

I'm loving the new Logistics system, especially as compared to the old Crowded debuff. I assume that there is a plan to tell us in game what our logistic limits are so that we don't have to guess? Trial and error adding one unit at a time to see if you're there gets old fast.

I just pushed out a first draft of the new logistics/congestion user interface today. I'm not sure I'm sufficiently happy with the layout yet, but feedback is welcome

-Josh

 

[Daft73]

Spoiler :

Just in case anyone missed it, there is a new Hotkeys view in the Civilopedia under the Help section. It should aid in tracking down any remaining double-booked hotkeys. Unlike the original Sevopedia shortcuts page, this listing is derived directly from the ActionInfos so they will always be in sync with reality.
I just pushed out a first draft of the new logistics/congestion user interface today. I'm not sure I'm sufficiently happy with the layout yet, but feedback is welcome
-Josh

Thanks for the update. 'Question'...Has anyone updated to the latest SVN v1.8.5, I read about some issues that had been mentioned, can this be confirmed?

 

[burebeesta]

Hi, guys!
After a long break I have decided to "waste" another week, downloaded the last SVN version of RI and started a random map on huge, emperor, with only 12 civs (usually I like to play with more civs, but this time I forgot to make the change). I like to play hemispheres with 4-6 continents, and u can get pretty awesome maps sometimes.

*I can't even begin to say how amazingly complex and still very well balanced this mod is. Conquering a civ is now so much more difficult, especially when it is on another landmass, especially because the AI learned to use artillery so much better than in previous SVN versions and it constantly washes away your troops... It's so much fan, it's dangerous!

*Apart from that, I find that your 3 food/1 pop system is working very good. It is true that the cities tend to grow much larger now, and you can harvest more GPs, which are my favorites. There is a minor problem, I'd say, with the fact that in the late phases of the game having towns around your cities it's not worth it, cause the specialist produce much more gold or research (7, in some case 8). I think it would be appropriate if the towns would produce more gold, so they made more sense.

*Although I find the naval battles much more interesting, I thing that the "overcrowded" promotion should be applied to naval units too, since it is applied for land units. By the way, it would be very useful to somehow have a popup indicating when the crowd limit is achieved, because its always very difficult to keep count of rural/urban logistics.

*The last point I want to make concerns the nuclear weapons. As we all know, they were very rarely used in an actual war - in fact only twice. In the history of the cold war they were used in political negotiation actually. Apart from that, their exact location was always a secret, because to have A-bombs meant to become a treat, and because large parts of the population was against them. Now the question is how can u implement this in the game. Here's my suggestion. For once, i think that a city with A-bombs should suffer happiness penalty for every bomb in there. Moreover, for every bomb used, u should also get a happiness penalty in your biggest 6 cities or so, for say 15 turns, so u wont be able to detonate 20 bombs at once (which happens all to often when the non-proliferation treaty fails). On the other hand, I would suggest that A-bombs should somehow frighten the enemy in their target zone, or give them a kind of negative promotion, like the shore bombardment, and that ICBM should give a negative promotion to all your war enemies. In this way, it would make sense having A-bombs without necessary thinking about using it, because it would give u this advantage. Maybe you can think of something better along this lines...

 

[Manco Capac]

Of course, when I said they were unplayable, I meant they were unplayable.

A difference between a playable and an unplayable civ in RI is more than just a couple of XML switches. There's quite a lot of content that differentiates a playable civ from one that is there for scenario purposes / as a freed colony. I think you actually can play Nubia in Crusades scenario, maybe on World Maps too (don't remember). But it almost improbable that we will ever have it as a normal playable civ.

Indeed, I wanted to test it out and it worked. To people, here's the trick:

1) Enable Cheat Mode (chipotle)
2) ALT+Z until you got the civ you want to play

Sadly, the malus trait makes many of these minor civs unplayable in the long term. Like -40% science is harsh. Unless one plays on a rather low level.

 

[Manco Capac]

Just after the second failure on RI IMM (imagine being attacked by two AI's stacks because the original attacker bribed someone along him!), I decided to give another last chance for today and I stumbled the most unimaginably beautiful thing I could believe on anything bearing K-mod:

I got away with two stolen workers! OH MAH GAWD! My inner slave master/mistress is so fulfilled. I've heard that Karadoc made early AI crippling nearly impossible by now and I just got away with two free workers.

Peace deal was made. That definitely cripples any AI when their workers are robbed from their grip.

Spoiler :

I admit this is the second shot since I made silly early build choices (like starting something a thing three turns and swap afterward) and losing my chance to steal those two workers because I forgot K-mod optimized workers and one of the stack of two left in-between turns (I waited those pesky scouts went away).

But since that shot already had its second city (Exp trait), that necessarily made me winner in power I suppose. I will never know.

But that second shot, I simply build warriors after warriors and when I had 4 of these and the Armenian capital grew in culture influence so the workers could both go on the cow, I captured them and two turns later: HE AGREED to the peace. That unimaginably powerful!

Yikes! So happy. And if you don't understand why I'm so, it's because I have a huge knack for that tactic. And also I feel I broke K-mod, which is surprising!

I don't know the details of how peace deals work in K-mod (too lazy for the moment to look it up in the uncompiled DLL sources), but I suspect it worked very well for many reasons:

1) Many warriors allowed me to raise my power level
2) Wheel and Animal Husbandry were known to raise the power level too. I don't know for RI, but it may be unchanged.
3) I threatened its city with a well-defended warrior (forest + river) while he didn't with his scouts (not in time in the least). Normally, it only happened under AGGAI in vanilla BTS, but I suspect it works all the time in K-mod. I recall how enemy stack marching towards my lands strangely raised the peace deal cost. I specifically recall those zulu fleets not even near my lands, but suddenly and magically the peace deal raised in cost until I crushed that navy. And ofc, it raised again when he tried again.
4)War success; a stack of two workers is worth 4+1. It helps for peace deal.

Anyways, I'm glad there is a way to cripple an AI that is too close on IMM.

EDIT: Did I add I have horses so near, meaning I don't fear any this AI when he'll retaliate. So no need for Archery and I can freely go towards Stone Cutting and build the Mids. Man, I will try this out in my next games. After, it seems IMM on RI+K-mod is breakable now!

 

[Manco Capac]

Wow, just was able to make another stealth. Just awesome!

 

[Ahnarras]

I noticed that most ressources need a building to give the health bonus, but not the sea ressource. Why don't add something like a fishmonger's shop, in an early tech?
And, i'm not sure if this could be done, but it could give a little wealth bonus if the city is near a river, and a bigger one if on the coast.