Realism Invictus

[Arcani]

bMilitaryProduction : Counts as a military unit for production bonuses/penalties.
bMilitarySupport : Costs money to maintain as part of your military, affected by Pacifism and the like.
iCultureGarrison : The suppression value of a unit while garrisoned in a rebelling city.

Above is copied from the MODIKI section on this site, Civ 4, XML-reference, Units.
Some info there might be "outdated" since nothing has been updated with info from any Mods like R:I (as far as I know that is).

Thank you! Does iCultureGarrison influence on separatism, or happiness? How it works?

 

[TheBirdMan]

Now what do we have here?!?!?!

Certainly something worth to work on with .


A homemade mix between a barbarian archer, a roman ballista and a ww2.artillery from Dales CombatMod ..... I "used" the babarian archers as test-model, because no matter what nation I play with, the barbarians are always enemies and will always attack if possible .

Spoiler Take a look here :

Is it so, that the barbarian archers several times made ranged attacks - without entering hand-to-hand infights, risking their own health and life?!?!?!


Edit: This might very well be what I had been looking for.... The Barbarian archers can even attack units in a city at range 2 (that range will be for late, heavy artillery only if this test continues to work the way it do right now)......

 

[TheBirdMan]

So those were the initial tests - quite promising, I think.

1st step will then be to make the change for all the national bombards - it should work.

But maybe I should also take the longbows into consideration.... Such a good shower of arrows on an attacker before the troops clash - or in the start of a battle before the horsemen and foot-soldiers attacks - it appeals to my "sinful" soul......

If I'm still satisfied (or just PARTIALLY satisfied), work will continue with all the other artillery. Ohhhh, and maybe also that on the ships ?!?

 

[Hafenguy]

these resources will fuel your industry by allowing you to build numerous steel mills, oil refineries, clothing, synthetic plants, etc. Off the top of my head, raw resources you want to prioritize are cotton, wool, dye, oil, coal, iron, copper, bauxite, sulfur, prime timber, limestone, the food for canned food (corn, crab, cattle, fish) and (for late game) gold. Reason you want these is A) allow for more manufactured resources you can in turn trade for more raw resources (or sell for GPT), but the main reason is B) the buildings that produce the manufactured resources; it allows you to hire more craftsmen and oftentimes gives you a free craftsmen. By the industrial era, your industrial cities can become absolute powerhouses by having them work a few farms, with the rest on craftsmen

Does this mean in the industrial era you need way more and different Ressources as before and can etabluate a sort of value chaine?
That sounds awesome.

 

[ThirdOrbital]

So those were the initial tests - quite promising, I think.

1st step will then be to make the change for all the national bombards - it should work.

But maybe I should also take the longbows into consideration.... Such a good shower of arrows on an attacker before the troops clash - or in the start of a battle before the horsemen and foot-soldiers attacks - it appeals to my "sinful" soul......

If I'm still satisfied (or just PARTIALLY satisfied), work will continue with all the other artillery. Ohhhh, and maybe also that on the ships ?!?

Best of luck and keep us posted. I've long wished for a ranged component to help differentiate naval combat but was told on here the AI struggles with using this correctly.

 

[keldath]

Hey guys,
Regarding the ranged attack discussion.

I merged for my next version ofy own mod,
The ranged attack code in RI.
Its not yet completed, so i wanna hear more you your discussion here on that for RI.

I added my own tweaks for it:
Random hit or damage
Retalliate (allows a ranged unit that is being attacked by ranged to attack back).
Also i changed the combat limit, once reached, the ranged attacker can keep doing damage, post combat limit , but with a 50% less damage.
Also tweaked ai to value these units a bit more.
Changed the range visual layout to that of the one used by ranged dcm and to a red color.

Maybe this will interest you guys.
Im curious to what is on the table for changes regarding you discussion.

Cheers

 

[TheBirdMan]

There hasn't actually been much discussion here about the AI's ability to perform ranged attacks or ranged counter attacks in the R:I forum. I am probably the one here, who has been the most eager on this subject.

I do know that there are mods, which deals with this issue in different ways. I have tried a few, but....... Guess my "problem" is, that R:I simply "holds" much-to-much of what I like - graphics, gameplay, background (historical) - its the Alpha&Omega in my interest in playing this game. Personally, I doubt there is a better combination "on the market" than this CIV4/BtS/R:I.

That "one" - in this case "I" - is able to a certain extent and with greater or lesser success to modify the game to also include my own wishes - that's just a big plus.

I added my own tweaks for it:
Random hit or damage
Retalliate (allows a ranged unit that is being attacked by ranged to attack back).
Also i changed the combat limit, once reached, the ranged attacker can keep doing damage, post combat limit , but with a 50% less damage.
Also tweaked ai to value these units a bit more.
Changed the range visual layout to that of the one used by ranged dcm and to a red color.

Now if you would and could (I'm almost certain Walter Hawkwood wouldn't mind) to make such changes as above a part of the R:I mod, I would be more than happy. And I'm pretty sure, that even there hasn't been much writings about this, many players would appriciate this too.

Best of luck and keep us posted. I've long wished for a ranged component to help differentiate naval combat but was told on here the AI struggles with using this correctly.

Last time we really had a little "writing" on this subject was on page 424 and 425. Take a look (fx. my post from Jun, 5th 2022 the screenshots fra Dales Mod in my spoiler).



Below some "links" and quotes:

[BTS] - Defensive AI behavior.

I do wonder (no, not wonder - merely miss), that the AI is able to use their artillery and airplanes much better when they are under attack. I say, when I see an enemystack - land or naval, doesn't matter for me - approaching, then I use all I can find to bombard them with as soon as they are...

forums.civfanatics.com

That is not entirely correct - tactical bombers do attack my attacking forces in a 'defensive' manner, just not artillery.

May be worthwhile to examine the difference in exact coding between both for someone with knowledge of such things.

Also playing RI btw.

AI not using ranged bombardment?

Hello, I have ranged bombardment turned on and i can make use of it just fine, but I have so far not seen the AI use the option despite having numerous capable units, all the AI does is (suicide) attack with the collateral damage units the "normal" Civ 4 way. Is it just me or does the AI simply...

forums.civfanatics.com

 

[giorgio1234]

Hi,
I know there are no further developments planned, but
ONLY IF IT DOESN'T REQUIRE TOO MUCH EFFORT
it would be very nice to merge at least the first of the two features of the BULL project, shown at the bottom of this message

New Features & Fixes

Works perfectly. Thanks very much. :)

forums.civfanatics.com

It would avoid entering the city screen every time you have to select the city tile to work on, and the tiles of two or more cities overlap.
In any case, thank you for the great and valuable work.

EDIT:
I have seen that the first feature should be implemented by the [r202] commit in this repository of BULL project:

The BUG DLL / Code / Browse Commits

sourceforge.net

 

[Hafenguy]

What kinds of map and ressource allocation do you play?
I have the feeling on totestra map I always have a lack of Ressources. For example never had limestone.

 

[urbestfriend]

I had two questions/complaints I wanted to bring up regarding diplomacy penalties after getting into this mod and playing it over the last 8 months up to monarch level. The "you're getting ahead of us" and the "you have traded with our worst enemies" modifiers are basically present in every single games and unavoidable. For getting ahead, I'm assuming this is based on score? I'm fine with mechanics to prevents snowballs but this feels incredibly overpunishing. Getting -6 relations for getting to about 15% higher score is bonkers. It often means you can one turn be happy with all your neighbors, only for literally the next turn 3 neighbors to suddenly get annoyed with you and declare war in only a few turns and ruin the game, which really sucks considering only about 5-10% of games actually make it out of the early game with how rush happy the AI is early game. There isn't anything you can do about this either, I've tried gifting literally every tech and all my gold to my AI neighbors and it usually only raises their score by about 2%. Land and army size usually is a much bigger deal. So I'm being punished for how other AI suck at the game and then they all take their anger out at me.

For the traded with worst enemies, the problem is that it counts ongoing trade deals made before they became worst enemies. So if I have a open borders with civ B, and civ C is not worst enemies with B, all good. But then civ C decides B is their worst enemy and I get -4 and I didn't do anything. I don't think I've had a single game where I don't have -4 traded with worst enemies with literally everyone else by around 500 AD. You have to accept you start the game in the hole.

One other thing I have a question about since it isn't explained - the unhappiness from "we resent being ruled by a foreign culture". Is that based on how long you have held a captured city, or by how much culture you have in the city as a percentage vs the original owner, or as a percentage total? Thank you,

 

[keldath]

Hi guys,
I was diving more to the ai code of the ranged attack.
The ai is lacking some important logoc that i did at one of my developments before.
I will write it on.
Later, if accepted i might share it with RI.

 

[TheBirdMan]

Hi guys,
I was diving more to the ai code of the ranged attack.
The ai is lacking some important logoc that i did at one of my developments before.
I will write it on.
Later, if accepted i might share it with RI.

Sounds like getting a X-mas gift before time (I know I'm much too old to get a X-max gift - but I'm not too old to play this game)

 

[ThirdOrbital]

What kinds of map and ressource allocation do you play?
I have the feeling on totestra map I always have a lack of Ressources. For example never had limestone.

Personally I find limestone to be FAR too rare, especially since you need two instances in order to create masonry materials. A decent sized civilization should not be stuck with dirt roads until railroads! The Romans for instance paved roads using several different methods depending on the quality of material that was locally available. Luckily, this is easily solvable by modifying Civ4BonusInfos.xml. Now in my worlds limestone is as abundant as cattle. I should *probably* rebalance the build times of things like walls to account for the abundance but I haven't bothered yet.

 

[ThirdOrbital]

I had two questions/complaints I wanted to bring up regarding diplomacy penalties after getting into this mod and playing it over the last 8 months up to monarch level. The "you're getting ahead of us" and the "you have traded with our worst enemies" modifiers are basically present in every single games and unavoidable. For getting ahead, I'm assuming this is based on score? I'm fine with mechanics to prevents snowballs but this feels incredibly overpunishing. Getting -6 relations for getting to about 15% higher score is bonkers. It often means you can one turn be happy with all your neighbors, only for literally the next turn 3 neighbors to suddenly get annoyed with you and declare war in only a few turns and ruin the game, which really sucks considering only about 5-10% of games actually make it out of the early game with how rush happy the AI is early game. There isn't anything you can do about this either, I've tried gifting literally every tech and all my gold to my AI neighbors and it usually only raises their score by about 2%. Land and army size usually is a much bigger deal. So I'm being punished for how other AI suck at the game and then they all take their anger out at me.

For the traded with worst enemies, the problem is that it counts ongoing trade deals made before they became worst enemies. So if I have a open borders with civ B, and civ C is not worst enemies with B, all good. But then civ C decides B is their worst enemy and I get -4 and I didn't do anything. I don't think I've had a single game where I don't have -4 traded with worst enemies with literally everyone else by around 500 AD. You have to accept you start the game in the hole.

One other thing I have a question about since it isn't explained - the unhappiness from "we resent being ruled by a foreign culture". Is that based on how long you have held a captured city, or by how much culture you have in the city as a percentage vs the original owner, or as a percentage total? Thank you,

Wait... are you playing with technology trading on?? Gifting techs is a blast from the past; I haven't played with that setting in a very long time.

I agree that "you're getting ahead of us" is very swing-y, not mattering at all until suddenly it does. It also seems to be related to the AIs personality traits because some leaders will never care and others will be very jealous. I can't say as though I've noticed anything related to "traded with worst enemies". In general though it sounds as though you might be trying a vanilla "diplomancer" strategy of attempting to be friends with everyone. That's not very feasible in RI, especially if you are playing with technology transfer instead of tech trading. Managing relationships is always a touch game-y but RI is better about forcing you to choose alliances carefully. Things like joining a war on a weak unpopular neighbor you have no plans to conquer for the mutual military struggle bonus is common.

The "ruled by a foreign culture" malus occurs when you do not have the largest cultural percentage in a city. Interestingly you do not seem to need a majority, a plurality is sufficient so multi-cultural crossroad cities are far easier to tame that another empire's core cities. Functionally there isn't much you can do about this other than prioritize cultural development and wait it out.

 

[TheBirdMan]

Now in my worlds limestone is as abundant as cattle

Tsk-tsk-tsk. That's primitive.

I would use one of the BUILDINGCLASS_LOCAL_xxxxxx (fx BRONZE) buildings and make it "global" for all civs. Then modify it and add a few more free bonuses to the free bonus it already gives (in this case COPPER) - that could be limestone, iron and 1 or 2 more vital resources.

But to avoid any resources to be too "abundant" I would also limit the number any civ could build of those "special buildings" to say 2 or 3........

 

[ThirdOrbital]

Tsk-tsk-tsk. That's primitive.

I would use one of the BUILDINGCLASS_LOCAL_xxxxxx (fx BRONZE) buildings and make it "global" for all civs. Then modify it and add a few more free bonuses to the free bonus it already gives (in this case COPPER) - that could be limestone, iron and 1 or 2 more vital resources.

But to avoid any resources to be too "abundant" I would also limit the number any civ could build of those "special buildings" to say 2 or 3........

Hmm that is an interesting idea. Honestly though I just don't love the whole stone > masonry > roads setup.

I think prime timber is a much better design. Carpenters are a nice bonus, as is building ships faster. But when the ideal trees were not available, it's not as if society gave up on building boats. And eventually, technology (in this case mill machinery) makes the benefit much less valuable... until it comes back as furniture, which is just a delicious twist.

Ideally "quality stone" could be a rare resource with nice bonus, but not as critical to civs who didn't find it. A bonus that becomes less relevant, not more, over time... until perhaps there is some luxury or exotic rebirth later on. That would probably entail reworking of masonry materials as a whole though and not sure I'm up to the challenge right now.

 

[TheBirdMan]

Hmm that is an interesting idea

The idea isn't mine. That's Walters - or one from the old RI-team. I just found another way to use it.

I havn't tested it with more than the "original" one free bonus, but I expect it will "accept" more. Anyway, the Barbarians and "other" civs. have upto 3 of those buildings (see file National_Wonders_CIV4BuildingInfos.xlm, <BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_LOCAL_BRONZE</BuildingClass>, <BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_LOCAL_HORSES</BuildingClass> and <BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_LOCAL_IRON</BuildingClass>.

I think prime timber is a much better design. Carpenters are a nice bonus, as is building ships faster. But when the ideal trees were not available, it's not as if society gave up on building boats. And eventually, technology (in this case mill machinery) makes the benefit much less valuable... until it comes back as furniture, which is just a delicious twist.

Ideally "quality stone" could be a rare resource with nice bonus, but not as critical to civs who didn't find it. A bonus that becomes less relevant, not more, over time... until perhaps there is some luxury or exotic rebirth later on. That would probably entail reworking of masonry materials as a whole though and not sure I'm up to the challenge right now.

Now you "think same way as I".........

 

[TheBirdMan]

Now I hope the innkeepers have remembered to buy a large stock of good, dark and fairly strong Christmas beer.....

Spoiler Cheers :

 

[Hafenguy]

Is there a place in the internet where I can see all leader stats and personal traits or do I have to start the game to get this Information?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

A heads-up to everybody: after some deliberation, I decided to do a release this Christmas. It will be a really modest one, in the spirit of my announcement a year ago - mostly bugfixes, UI and visual fluff.