Rebel Sentiment Glich?

[Aythanaeus]

Alright, in this particular game I was experimenting with having few very large cities as opposed to many moderately specialized cities. My plan was to have absolutely NO liberty bells until I had a nice sized army because I didn't want my King to add troops slowly over time. Both cities were size 11 and I was feeling pretty stacked because I had fully upgraded defences and 24 dragoons with 12 cannons. I figured I could give the King a run for his money.

So I built all the liberty bell improvements (newspaper, etc) and maxed out my liberty bell production with elder statesmen. I would have my war!

Or not.

Both of my cities reached 100% rebel sentiment. Indian cities everywere nearby disbanded. Yet my overall rebel sentiment was stuck at 30% I figured, maybe if I made most of my citizens into dragoons my rebel sentiment would go up.

At this point I have 3 elder statesmen in each city with 2 expert farmers... so two size 5 cities and 36 dragoons, 12 cannons. Both cities still have 100% rebel sentiment, yet my overall sentiment is now 31%

I had my side of the continent to myself with exception of one indian city left which had a lot of English in it so I asked for it and he disbanded it for me, I figured that maybe those englishmen were holding me back. After though it didn't make any difference! No indians anywere now on my side of the continent and the Spanish obliterated their own on their side.

What the hell gives? I waited it out till the very end of the game (which the King inevitably won) and my sentiment floated between 29% and 31% arbitrarily despite each city having 100%.

I'm really curious as to why this has happened, is there a factor I am neglecting?

 

[Aythanaeus]

Alright I have gathered that my troops are tories. That is pretty homoerotic. It's sort of counterproductive to have a standing army if you want to declare your independence, yet can you expect to win that independence without any troops?

You could just stockpile a plethora of guns and horses (as well as ore, tools, and wood to produce more). But lets not forget that it's rare when a Monarch sends less that 30-35 units. Can you muster 35+ units in the time it takes for Mr. George III to reach America?

Also, troops are a fairly patriotic lot whether it is towards the motherland or the colonies. One would probably expect that over time troops entirely loyal to the monarchy would become rebels themselves though I'm not entirely sure on how this factor played out in the 13 Colonies in real life.

Does Firaxis have any intention of patching this issue?

 

[vladstrutzu]

Well... for the overall rebel sentiment all your population is factored in, even the units ! (but not the cannons and ships, just units derived from a colonist).
so even if you have two 5 population cities, having 36 dragoons makes your population 46! so you need more than 6 elder statesmen.

I think you need to build more cities with 3 elder statesmen and 2 expert farmers (at least another 2 cities)

 

[Bloink]

You are probably like me, you used to play Civ4 or 3, not Col. Once you change they way you look at the WoI it becomes pretty natural. Just keep your folks in the cities producing like crazy up until you declare. You will then have a couple of turns to go around to each and dump out your Dragoons/Soldiers and be ready to fight. (The trick is to keep Gun/Horse production going even after you declare, also keep up food production in cites. This will allow you to arm new colonists that pop and/or yank out a couple if you get desperate....I tend to get desperate)

I do find it annoying that I have to have a bunch of wagons just sitting around with guns/horse in them.....

 

[dalgo]

You do get a turn to spare after declaring Independence to muster your troops. If you have enough guns/horses stored you can make everyone in your two colonies dragoons (leaving one man behind in each) plus you get 2 free indentured servants for each colony. In my experience the King only send troops in small numbers, at least at first. In my last game although he had 36 Man-o-War he only used 4 of them (16 troops) for the first 6 turns.

 

[Aythanaeus]

Well the first game I played came to a bit of a stalemate because I had mostly soldiers (I was Washington who gets them cheap; though not Dragoons oddly enough).

What's a pretty standard # of cities? I always tend to get indian invasions with more than 4.

Do you work on LB off the bat or approach it the same way I do and mass produce it at mid/late game?

Are exp. warehouses a must? My typical build-order usually focuses on a dock (I always build near crabs/fish), warehouse, wagon train, stockade, lumbermill, fort. It's rare that I deviate from that! Do you folks approach the build queue differently?

Do you folks even run around with soldiers? They seem so underclasses compared to Regulars and so I generally don't bother with them and opt out for dragoons in favor of the +1 attack increase. Any comments on that?

Seems like there is never enough time to accomplish all of this before the game is over!

Also, whats DoI? lol

 

[Bloink]

Well the first game I played came to a bit of a stalemate because I had mostly soldiers (I was Washington who gets them cheap; though not Dragoons oddly enough).

What's a pretty standard # of cities? I always tend to get indian invasions with more than 4.

Do you work on LB off the bat or approach it the same way I do and mass produce it at mid/late game?

Are exp. warehouses a must? My typical build-order usually focuses on a dock (I always build near crabs/fish), warehouse, wagon train, stockade, lumbermill, fort. It's rare that I deviate from that! Do you folks approach the build queue differently?

Do you folks even run around with soldiers? They seem so underclasses compared to Regulars and so I generally don't bother with them and opt out for dragoons in favor of the +1 attack increase. Any comments on that?

Seems like there is never enough time to accomplish all of this before the game is over!

Also, whats DoI? lol

Question 1: I tend to go with 4-6 sometimes more but over 8 gets to be a nightmare. You definitely have to keep an eye on the indians.....keep guns in cities near them...or just attack them first once you have what you want from them.

Question 2: I tend to do the same as you, produce stuff first, trying to get cloth,cigars, rum, coats going early so I have money to work with. One negative to not producing at least SOME bells early is you don't get the early FF's...basically its a wash for me, I prefer gold so I can make more decisions later in the game.

Question 3: My standard build order in every new city is Dock/Warehouse/Lumbermill.(Dock only if there is more than 1 water tile). From there it really depends what I intend to do with the city. I do however build a Exp. Warehouse/Printing Press/Newspaper in EVERY city later in the game. I rarely worry about defenses unless I have a particularly nasty civ near me that could get frisky in a heartbeat.

Question 4: I don't intentionally use soldiers at all, Dragoons are the best imo. I do leave enough guns for at least one colonist to bail out and defend at all times though. Soldiers defend really well against natives.

Question 5: DoI= Declaration of Indepence!

Don't forget to build tons of roads....Dragoons can travel a long ways in one turn if you have roads everywhere.

 

[dalgo]

Well the first game I played came to a bit of a stalemate because I had mostly soldiers (I was Washington who gets them cheap; though not Dragoons oddly enough).

What's a pretty standard # of cities? I always tend to get indian invasions with more than 4.

Do you work on LB off the bat or approach it the same way I do and mass produce it at mid/late game?

Are exp. warehouses a must? My typical build-order usually focuses on a dock (I always build near crabs/fish), warehouse, wagon train, stockade, lumbermill, fort. It's rare that I deviate from that! Do you folks approach the build queue differently?

Do you folks even run around with soldiers? They seem so underclasses compared to Regulars and so I generally don't bother with them and opt out for dragoons in favor of the +1 attack increase. Any comments on that?

Seems like there is never enough time to accomplish all of this before the game is over!

Also, whats DoI? lol

Everyone develops there own game strategy, there are many ways to win.

1. I like building and managing colonies so I usually end up with 8 or 9. There are FF to help keep good relations with the indians, but still be prepared to fight them if necessary.

2. I produce liberty bells right away and end up with a big REF to fight at the end but by then my military is strong enough to cope.

3. I usually build stockade/printing press/dock/warehouse and then probably a specialist building. Lumber mills are expensive so I build them later than I would have in the original game.

4. Soldiers make sense if you have Washington but otherwise I prefer dragoons.

5. Yes time is much tighter in Col2 so it makes your development strategy decisions even more important. But that's what makes it fun.