Rebellions of previously conquered civs

[Krajzen]

One thing which I always missed in civ5 was how all cities and lands of conquered civilizations were - after a brief initial period of unrest - loyal to the conqueror civ forever, unless third party civ liberated them. Well there were also ideological pressure/low happiness rebellions, but they were empire-wide, not specific for conquered cities.

While it was very hard to implement in civ5 due to global happiness, I hope cities in civ6 (where happiness is local again) will be able to revolt if terribly unhappy, and maybe return to original ethnic owner or even resurrect their original civ if it has fallen entirely before. Of course this should happen not immediately - first such city should spawn liberation fighters, then after X period of not reconquering them they declare independence.

(my dream would be for such cities to be also able of becoming new city-states or entire new rogue civs, but I'm 99% sure it will not happen )

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Very much like the idea...
I have hoped that "city flipping" due to unhappiness, foreign cultural influence (including original ownership), etc. would be in and that cities would "flip" by spawning units to liberate themselves. (unless you chose to liberate them)

That could even be benefit of some civics (Nationalism... increase the 'influence' strength of cities founded by you originally and the likelihood of them spawning units)... so that areas that were peaceful for the last 1000 years or so start wanting to rejoin their compatriots, now that it is a more modern era.

 

[migkillertwo]

Medieval Total War had a similar mechanic.

Overall I really like the idea, but the obvious question is: where will they be on the tech or social policy tree? It doesn't seem fair that they would spawn with all the technology of their conquering civ, but you can't have them start off where they left off either. If I conquered Greece in the ancient world and they rebel after the atomic age, do they go back to the ancient technology?

 

[Loaf Warden]

It doesn't seem fair that they would spawn with all the technology of their conquering civ,

Why in the world not? They've been living in their conqueror's empire, benefiting from their conqueror's technology. Why wouldn't they have access to it?

If I conquered Greece in the ancient world and they rebel after the atomic age, do they go back to the ancient technology?

If they rebel after the Atomic Age, they should have post-Atomic technology.

This kind of thing happens all the time, you know. The Turks conquered the Greeks in 1453. The Greeks fought a revolution and gained independence in 1829. Did the Greeks fight that war with cataphracts and dromons? Of course not. Nor were the Irish using pikes and swords to throw off British rule in 1922. They had all the same technology the British had.

I'd love to see a mechanic for conquered civs to rise up and try to regain independence, but they should have exactly the same technology level their conqueror has. To have them behind just because technology has advanced since they were conquered would make no realistic sense, and would be bad for gameplay purposes. (The Greeks using medieval technology to try to split off from the Industrial-era Ottomans would be so unlikely to win that there's no practical benefit to having a revolution system in the first place.)

 

[migkillertwo]

Why in the world not? They've been living in their conqueror's empire, benefiting from their conqueror's technology. Why wouldn't they have access to it?

Well in the real world, effective use of technology and innovation requires cooperation. If for instance the state of West Virginia wanted to build a nuclear reactor, they would need a whole bunch of scientists and engineers from the rest of the country. That becomes far more difficult if WV were to secede from the Union.

If they rebel after the Atomic Age, they should have post-Atomic technology

This kind of thing happens all the time, you know. The Turks conquered the Greeks in 1453. The Greeks fought a revolution and gained independence in 1829. Did the Greeks fight that war with cataphracts and dromons? Of course not. Nor were the Irish using pikes and swords to throw off British rule in 1922. They had all the same technology the British had.

The exact same? I'm not so sure about that. The rebels are not going to be similarly equipped, they don't have access to the same capital or technological know how.

I'd love to see a mechanic for conquered civs to rise up and try to regain independence, but they should have exactly the same technology level their conqueror has. To have them behind just because technology has advanced since they were conquered would make no realistic sense, and would be bad for gameplay purposes. (The Greeks using medieval technology to try to split off from the Industrial-era Ottomans would be so unlikely to win that there's no practical benefit to having a revolution system in the first place.)

Well it's not an "either/or" question. A new country formed of a revolution almost invariably will be less productive than if they stayed in the civilization, at least in the short term.

 

[Loaf Warden]

They might not have access to all the resources that their conqueror has, no. But if the Greeks were conquered in the Ancient Era and are rebelling in the Atomic Era, the rebels will not be struggling to understand the Compass. It may be that they don't have the resources to build tanks, but if they've been living in a country that uses tanks, they'll at least know what one is. What resources the rebels have will vary from case to case depending on the in-game conditions, but I don't see why the rebels would be technologically behind the country they've spend the last however many centuries living within.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The rebel units should probably be the same tech as the occupier, but not the same type.
Rebel units would not be resource using units/or highly experienced (they should be a specific unbuildable unit only produced in rebellions, strength depending on era of the occupier)

If a civ became newly independent, then they should have "CS tech" ie the tech/civics that are common at the time)

 

[Krajzen]

Rebels could appear with something like 90% of techs and 80% of civics of civ they rebelled against.

 

[historix69]

I think the best simulation of civil unrest and revolution in the series was in Civ3 where ethnic population was a feature ... the player had to garrison an army in a newly conquered city with approximately 1 unit per 2 population, so when a size 20 city was taken, 10 units had to babysit for the next 20 turns or so until unrest calmed down and slowly a cultural assimilation process started ... otherwise an army of size of maybe 20 percent of population could rise next to the city and unsufficient garrison-troops were eliminated in kind of ambush/uprising ...
War against a civ lead to increased unhappiness in your population when part of your population originated from the other civ ... like USA fight war against China and Chinatown-people in the US become unhappy and may revolt ...

However ethnic population was dropped and with 1upt you can no longer place 10 units in a city-tile in Civ5 or Civ6 ... so maybe better get Civ3 installed and play Civ3 for a change ... it's on Steam-Sale for 1,24 Euro ...