Redundant Prereqs V30

[Faustmouse]

Hi,
in this thread I'm gonna list all redundancies I found. Let me know if you prefer a specal style for posting these or if mine is ok.
Here we go:

- Sealmaker requires Carving, but also Trade. Carving is needed for Trade, meaning this is a redundant prereq.

- Totem Pole requires Wood Working, but also Tribal (Civic). Wood Working is a prereq for Tribal (Tech). So Wood Working is redundant.

- Furniture Factory needs Carpentry as prereq -> This is obviously redundant!

- Jade Gatherer and Amber Gatherer requires Bead Making, but Amber and Jade show up at Barter. Bead Making is a prereq for Barter, meaning it is redundant.

- Bonfire requires Stick Gatherer or Lumbercamp. But Firemaking, which enables Bonfire, obsoletes Stick Gatherer.

- Funeral Pyre comes at Firemaking, but needs a Graveyard (comes at Masonary) -> Firemaking is redundant.

- Cockfighting Ring comes at Games, but also requires Poultry Domestication (Games Redundant)

- Carpentry unlocks Cooper which also requires Fermentation -> Carpentry is redundant.

- Carpentry unlocks Housing Hogans, but those need also Pottery -> Carpentry is redundant.

- Moran, Huaminca, Sacred Band at Hunting but also need Copper Working -> Hunting redundant.

- Caribic Blowgunner at Poison Crafting; Caribic needs Boat Building -> Poisoncrafting redundant.

- Ironwood Clubman at Heat Treatment, needs Mampuche [requires: Agriculture]-> Heat Treatment redundant.

- Vulture at Axe Making, require Sumerian Culture [Agriculture] -> Axe Making redundant.


To be continued...

 

[Thunderbrd]

This is a very appreciated new thread. It doesn't take ultimately highest priority but its definitely something to track and peck away at here and there. My question at this point is which of us takes this as their responsibility to address? Is this one for you Hydro?

 

[pi4t]

A couple of similar issues I noticed surrounding Tribalism.

Firstly, a purely graphical issue, but Hunting Tactics has an arrow leading to Tribalism, but Tribalism also has hunting tactics in its 'extra prerequisites' box in the top right, on the tech tree.

Secondly, Cultural Identity is a requirement for Tribalism, but Cultural Identity is needed for Games, which are needed for Hunting Tactics, which is another prerequisite for Tribalism.

 

[Faustmouse]

I'm glad to see Hydro is fixing some of these :Goodjob:

Here is round two:

Buildings:

Spoiler :

- Dried Fruit Maker at Drying, requires Fruit [Agriculture] -> Drying redundant.

- Dried Fish Maker at Draying, requires Raw Fish [Boat Fishing] -> Drying redundant.

- Flavian Amphitheater at Slavery, also needs Construction -> Slavery redundant.

- Slave Market at Slavery, also requires Trade -> Slavery redundant.

- Tailor Shop at Tanning, also needs Aesthetics -> Tanning redundant.

- Cobbler at Tanning, also needs Trading Post [Trade] -> Tanning redundant.

- National Courir System at Animal Husbandry, also requires Writing -> Animal Husbandry redundant.

- Culture (Basque) at Animal Husbandry, also requires Spices [Spice Trade] -> Animal Husbandry redundant.

- Monkey Breeder at Animal Husbandry, also requires Music-> Animal Husbandry redundant.

- Cow Shrine at Animal Husbandry, also requires Polytheism-> Animal Husbandry redundant.

- Angora Rabbit Breeder at Animal Husbandry, also requires Aestetics -> Animal Husbandry redundant.

- Angora Goat Breeder at Animal Husbandry, also requires Aestetics -> Animal Husbandry redundant.

- Wolly Pig Breeder at Animal Husbandry, also requires Aestetics -> Animal Husbandry redundant.

- Dairy Barn at Animal Husbandry, also requires Glassware [Glas Blowing] -> Animal Husbandry redundant.

- Jousting Tournament at Animal Riding, also requires Tournaments -> Animal Riding is redundant.

- King's Tournament at Animal Riding, also requires Tournaments -> Animal Riding is redundant.

- Enclosure - Amphibian Pond at Animism, also requires Carnival [Trade] -> Animism redundant.

- Seal Maker at Arithmetic, also requires Trade -> Arithmetic is redundant.

- Pyramides at Ceremonial Burial, also needs Sculpture -> Ceremonial Burial is redundant.

- Graveyard ar Ceremonial Burial, also needs Masonary -> Ceremonial Burial is redundant.

- Terracotta Army at Ceremonial Burial, also needs Sculptures [Sculpture] -> Pottery and Ceremonial Burial are redundant.

- Stele at Ceremonial Burial, also needs Graveyard [Masonary] -> Ceremonial Burial is redundant.

- Mausoleum at Ceremonial Burial, also needs Graveyard [Masonary] -> Ceremonial Burial is redundant.

- Valley of the Kings at Ceremonial Burial, also needs Pyramides[Sculpture] -> Ceremonial Burial is redundant.

- Divine Monument at Ceremonial Burial, also needs "Divine Cult"(Civic) [Mysiticism] -> Ceremonial Burial is redundant. [Use Mysticism as prereq]

- Funeral Pyre at Ceremonial Burial, also needs Graveyard [Masonary] -> Ceremonial Burial is redundant.

- Culture Egypt at Ceremonial Burial, requires State-Religion in City. Can't have a State-Religion before Divine Cult (Civic) [Mysticism] -> Ceremonial Burial is redundant. [Use Mysticism as prereq]

- Mystic's Hut at Mysticism. Also requires Prophets (Civic) [Divination] -> Mysticism is redundant.

- Culture (Olmec) at Megalith Construction. Also requires Sapphires [Mining] -> Megaith Construction is redundant.

- Town Well at Pottery, also requires Masonry -> Pottery redundant.

- Culture Carib at Boat Building, needs Crab [Boat Fishing] -> Boat Building is redundant. [NOTE: I THINK you need access to a ressource to build vicinity buildings. If you only need to have it in vicinity, but not connected, this is not a redundancy]

- Culture Indonesian at Boat Building, needs Pearls [Boat Fishing] -> Boat Building is redundant. [NOTE: I THINK you need access to a ressource to build vicinity buildings. If you only need to have it in vicinity, but not connected, this is not a redundancy]

- (Brahmin Library at Caste System. Also requires Hinduism -> Caste System redundant.) <- Forgot about choose Religion Option (only this one)

- Culture Malinese at Mining, also requires Salt [Salt Processing] -> Mining redundant.

- Hammam at Masonry. Also requires Ottman [Mercantilism] -> Masonry and Canal Systems redundant.

- Baray at Masonry. Also requires Canal Systems -> Masonry redundant.

- Ishtar Gate at Masonry. Also requieres Aestetics -> Masonry redundant.

- Topkapi Palace at Masonry, also requires Feudalism -> Masonry redundant.

- Borax Mine at Masonry, also requires Salt [Salt Procsssing] -> Masonry redundant.

- Brick Factory at Masonry, also requires Assembly Line -> Masonry redundant.

- National Archives at Writing, also requires Library [Literature] -> Writing redundant.

- Statue of Champions at Athletics, also requires Arena [Combat Sports] -> Athletics redundant.

- Piazza San Marco at Code of Laws, also requires Guilds -> Code of Laws redundant.

- National Mint at Metal Casting, also requires Bank [Banking] -> Metal Casting redundant.

- Pub at Fermentation, also requires Guilds -> Fermentation redundant.

- Dive Bar at Fermentation, also requires Refrigeration -> Fermentation redundant.

- Galactic Cantina at Fermentation, also requires Astroanthopology -> Fermentation redundant.

- Distillery at Fermentation, also requires Alchemy -> Fermentation redundant.

- [Not a redundancy but Cooper requires "Copper Wares OR Bronze Wares OR Iron Wares", so Copper Working should be a prereq!]

Units (heros)

Spoiler :

- Enkidu (Hero) at Animal Husbandry, also requires Writing -> Animal Husbandry redundant.

- Theseus (Hero) at Animal Husbandry, also requires Writing -> Animal Husbandry redundant.

- Gesar (hero) at Animal Riding, also requires Writing (and Tibetan [Meditation]) -> Writing and Animal Riding are redundant.

- Labarna (Hero) at Pottery, also requires Writing -> Pottery redundant.

- Mansa Sakura (Hero) at Trade, also requires Literature -> Trade redundant.

- Shehe Mvite (Hero) at Trade, also requires Literature -> Trade redundant.

- Leo I (Hero) at Trade, also requires Armenian [Armoured Cavalry] -> Trade and Literature redundant.

- National Hero (Hero) at Writing, also requires Monarchy -> Writing redundant.

- Scipio Africanus (Hero) at Writing, also requires Monarchy -> Writing redundant.

- Shapur I (Hero) at Writing, also requires Code of Law-> Writing redundant.

- Chandragupta Maurya (Hero) at Writing, also requires Aestetics-> Writing redundant.

- Hamilcar Barca (Hero) at Writing, also requires Ironworking-> Writing redundant.

- Merlin (Hero) at Writing, also requires Calendar-> Writing redundant.

- Gwanggaeto (Hero) at Writing, also requires Calendar-> Writing redundant.

- Kukulcan (Hero) at Writing, also requires Calendar-> Writing redundant.

- Nebuchadnezzar (Hero) at Writing, also requires Construction-> Writing redundant.

- Nebopolarssar (Hero) at Writing, also requires Mathematics -> Writing redundant.

- Sargon (Hero) at Writing, also requires Alphabet -> Writing redundant.

- Ezana (Hero) at Writing, also requires Ethiopian [Theology]-> Writing and Monotheism redundant.

- Solomon (Hero) at Writing, also requires Monotheism-> Writing redundant

- Maccabeus (Hero) at Writing, also requires Israeli [Monotheism]-> Writing redundant.

- Taharqa (Hero) at Writing, also requires Monarchy -> Writing redundant.

- Baal-Eser II (Hero) at Writing, also requires Alphabet-> Writing redundant.

- Ithobaal I (Hero) at Writing, also requires Mathematics-> Writing redundant.

- Karikala Chola (Hero) at Writing, also requires Currency and Chola [Aestetics] -> Writing redundant.

- Ashurbanipal (Hero) at Writing, also requires Monarchy -> Writing redundant.

- Semiramis (Hero) at Writing, also requires Alphabet -> Writing redundant.

- Hayka (Hero) at Writing, also requires Armenian [Armoured Cavalry]-> Writing redundant.

- Manco Capac (Hero) at Alphabet, also requires Literature-> Alphabet redundant.

- Hayk (Hero) at Archery, also requires Armenian [Armoured Cavalry]-> Archery redundant.

- El Cid (Hero) at Literature, also requires Theology -> Literature redundant.

- Joan of Arc (Hero) at Literature, also requires Divine Right-> Literature redundant.

- Frederick Barbarossa (Hero) at Literature, also requires German [Printing Press] -> Literature redundant.

- Ivan IV (Hero) at Literature, also requires Russian [Nationalism] -> Literature and Guilds redundant.

- Baibars (Hero) at Literature, also requires Arabian [Education] -> Literature and Civil Service redundant.

- Khalid ibn al-Walid (Hero) at Literature, also requires Arabian [Education] -> Literature and Theology redundant.

- Rostam (Hero) at Literature, also requires Civil Service -> Literature redundant.

- Guan Yu (Hero) at Literature, also requires Philosophy -> Literature redundant.

- Ogodai Khan (Hero) at Literature, also requires Civil Service -> Literature redundant.

- Subotei (Hero) at Literature, also requires Civil Service -> Literature redundant.

- Sundiata Keita (Hero) at Literature, also requires Music -> Literature redundant.

- Canute (Hero) at Literature, also requires Civil Service -> Literature redundant.

- Osman (Hero) at Literature, also requires Divine Right -> Literature redundant.

- Hiawatha (Hero) at Literature, also requires Philosophy -> Literature redundant.

- Basil II (Hero) at Literature, also requires Civil Service -> Literature redundant.

- Pier Gorlofs Donia (Hero) at Literature, also requires Dutch [Mercantilism]-> Literature and Guilds redundant.

- Jayavarman II (Hero) at Literature, also requires Music -> Literature redundant.

- Tu'i-ta-tui (Hero) at Literature, also requires Optics -> Literature redundant.

- Jadwiga (Hero) at Literature, also requires Theology -> Literature redundant.

- Trisong Detson (Hero) at Literature, also requires Theology -> Literature redundant.

- Trieu Thi Trinh (Hero) at Literature, also requires Vietnamese [Guerrillia Warfare] -> Literature and Music redundant. [And WAY to weak]

- Ken Arok (Hero) at Literature, also requires Civil Service -> Literature redundant.

- Bilge Khan (Hero) at Literature, also requires Civil Service -> Literature redundant.

- Suriyothai (Hero) at Literature, also requires Divine Right -> Literature redundant.

- Rajaraja Chola I (Hero) at Literature, also requires Divine Right -> Literature redundant.

- Bayajidda (Hero) at Literature, also requires Music -> Literature redundant.

- Lukeni Lua Nimi (Hero) at Literature, also requires Civil Service -> Literature redundant.

- Enrico Dandolo (Hero) at Literature, also requires Civil Service -> Literature redundant.

- Yusuf ibn Tashfin (Hero) at Literature, also requires Alchemy -> Literature redundant.

- Kahina (Hero) at Literature, also requires Civil Service -> Literature redundant.

- Stephan I (Hero) at Literature, also requires Hungarian [Nationalism] -> Literature and Theology redundant.

- Arpad (Hero) at Literature, also requires Hungarian [Nationalism] -> Literature and Feudalism redundant.

- Chief Sleepy Eye (Hero) at Literature, also requires Theology -> Literature redundant.

- Afonso Henriques (Hero) at Feudalism, also requires Portuguese [Heraldry] -> Feudalism redundant.

- Casimir III (Hero) at Feudalism, also requires Polish [Heraldry ] -> Feudalism redundant.

As you can see, MANY Heros come at Writing and Literature, but are trainable MUCH later in the Techtree. So fixing these should be a priority for fixing redundant prereqs since they really need their strength adjusted, too!

Units (Non-Hero):

Spoiler :

- Coyote Runner at Obsidian Weapons, also requires Toltec [Masonary] -> Obsidian Weapons redundant.

- Tomol at Boat Building, requires Chumash [Boat Fishing] -> Boat BUilding is redundant [NOTE: I THINK you need access to a ressource to build vicinity buildings. If you only need to have it in vicinity, but not connected, this is not a redundancy]

- Story Teller requires Trade and Oral Traditions -> Oral Traditions redundant.

- Benin Warbow at Archery, also requires Feudalism -> Archery redundant.

- Yeoman Archer at Archery, also requires Feudalism -> Archery redundant.

- Urban Crossbowman at Archery, also requires Guerrilla Warfare -> Archery redundant.

- Bombard Elephant at Elephant Domestication, also requires Cavalry Tactics -> Gunpowder and Elephant Domestication redundant.

- Flail Elephant at Elephant Domestication, also requires Armoured Cavalry -> Elephant Domestication redundant.

- Mahout Lancer at Elephant Domestication, also requires Armoured Cavalry -> Elephant Domestication redundant.

- Howdah at Elephant Domestication, also requires Armoured Cavalry -> Elephant Domestication redundant.

- Elephant Gunner at Elephant Domestication, also requires Armoured Cavalry -> Elephant Domestication redundant.

- Axe Trower at Bronze Working, also requires Franks [Military Training] -> Bronze Working redundant.

To be continued...

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Faustmouse

While some common sense fixes will be applied some may not be, for the following reasons ...

1. Requirements may change in the future to which the requirements would not be redundant anymore.

2. The spirit of the unit/building to show that is linked to a specific tech such as Angora Rabbit Breeder (and other aesthetics pets) to Animal Husbandry.

----

Note I think all Hero units should be made un-redundant. or possibly given some C2C techs instead.

As for culture units I am on the fence for many of them since their requirements can change. Some units have been been moved from one culture to another culture (ex. Koa from Polynesian to Hawaiian).

 

[DRJ]

I see most redundant prereqs as hints for (new) players:

like "now you discovered this, you can also build this with it later"
so players who maybe enjoyed to find a certain resource after discovering a early tech know where to beeline to, to fully make use of it then.

Actually redundancy has no single negative AI effect, right?

 

[Faustmouse]

@ Hydro:

I think it should be clear that you need the knowledge of Animal Husbandry to Breed some aesthetic pets. Or Elephant Domestication to have Battle Elephants.

I just post these here, if you want to change it or not is your opinion. I also thought of moving units around so they are no longer redundant. That's up to you.
I just hate it to see "Oh, if I research Tech X I can build this Wonder!" and than it says "Also requires Tech Y far down the Tree".
Also, culture units should have listed their culture's prereqs as well.

 

[strategyonly]

I just post these here, if you want to change it or not is your opinion. I also thought of moving units around so they are no longer redundant. That's up to you.
I just hate it to see "Oh, if I research Tech X I can build this Wonder!" and than it says "Also requires Tech Y far down the Tree".
Also, culture units should have listed their culture's prereqs as well.

Sure go ahead and post, if he uses it, is up to him, but thx, all the help is appreciated! . . . SO

 

[Hydromancerx]

Sure go ahead and post, if he uses it, is up to him, but thx, all the help is appreciated! . . . SO

Yes they are appreciated. Even if some were done on purpose others I might have just not noticed or became redundant after the tech tree was moved around Vokarya.

It also would be helpful to cross off ones I already fixed.

 

[Faustmouse]

Next Batch (They getting fewer... And I have less time to play :/
And yes, I'll cross them out once I get time (probably later, otherwise this evening)

Buildings

- Pirate's Cove at Piracy, also requires Astronomy -> Piracy is redundant.

- Forum at Currency, also requires Democracy -> Currency is redundant.

- Poilis Council at Code of Laws, also requires Legislature [Democracy] -> Code of Laws redundant.

- Housing (Villas) at City Planing, also requires Sewer System [Sanitiation] -> Change prereq from City Planing to Sanitiation.

- Housing (Palaces) at City Planing, also requires Sewer System [Sanitiation] -> Change prereq from City Planing to Sanitiation.



Units


- Carack Merchant at Piracy, also requires Optics -> Piracy redundant.

- Sloop of War at Piracy, also requires Compass -> Guilds and Piracy redundant.

- Dromon at Ship Building, also requires Ancient Ballistics -> Ship Building redundant.

- Furniture Factory at Aesthetics, also requires Assembly Line -> Aesthetics redundant. [Might have been fixed since I reported the redundant Carpentry Tech before]

- Fransisco de Miranda at Democracy, also requires Venezuelan [Military Tradition] -> Democracy and Education is redundant. Use Military Tradition as prereq.

 

[Faustmouse]

I just crossed off all the fixes Hydro did on the SVN. At least if they were named. If you fixed other things that were only commented with "Fixed some more redundant requirements." and want me to cross them off, please tell me.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Some other I fixed from your list.

- Cockfighting Ring comes at Games, but also requires Poultry Domestication (Games Redundant)

- Moran, Huaminca, Sacred Band at Hunting but also need Copper Working -> Hunting redundant.

- Vulture at Axe Making, require Sumerian Culture [Agriculture] -> Axe Making redundant.

Vulture was actually moved to Copper Working tech instead.

Also in post #4 could you re-post the non-hero units?

 

[Faustmouse]

@Hydro:

- Crossed off the fixed ones.
- Seperated Heros and non-Heros in Post 4. Is it ok like this?

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Faustmouse

- Funeral Pyre comes at Firemaking, but needs a Graveyard (comes at Masonary) -> Firemaking is redundant.

So I fixed this indirectly. I made the Graveyard only require Ceremonial Burial which makes the Funeral Pyre's reqs valid and not longer redundant. However the Mausoleum required Ceremonial Burial and Masonry which is redundant so I made it only require Masonry.

Overall this makes more sense that you can build a graveyard without any resources and then if you want to add-on a Funeral Pyre or Mausoleum you can get other techs and resources to do so.

- Totem Pole requires Wood Working, but also Tribal (Civic). Wood Working is a prereq for Tribal (Tech). So Wood Working is redundant.

Fixed.

- Pub at Fermentation, also requires Guilds -> Fermentation redundant.

- Dive Bar at Fermentation, also requires Refrigeration -> Fermentation redundant.

- Galactic Cantina at Fermentation, also requires Astroanthopology -> Fermentation redundant.

Fixed. Fixed. Fixed.

 

[Faustmouse]

@Faustmouse



So I fixed this indirectly. I made the Graveyard only require Ceremonial Burial which makes the Funeral Pyre's reqs valid and not longer redundant. However the Mausoleum required Ceremonial Burial and Masonry which is redundant so I made it only require Masonry.

Overall this makes more sense that you can build a graveyard without any resources and then if you want to add-on a Funeral Pyre or Mausoleum you can get other techs and resources to do so.

Nice
And thx for the other fixes!

 

[Hydromancerx]

- Stele at Ceremonial Burial, also needs Graveyard [Masonary] -> Ceremonial Burial is redundant.

- Funeral Pyre comes at Firemaking, but needs a Graveyard (comes at Masonary) -> Firemaking is redundant.

Make sure to cross these off or even delete since they are no longer redundant due to the Graveyard switched to Ceremonial Burial tech.

 

[Hydromancerx]

More fixes ...

- Cockfighting Ring comes at Games, but also requires Poultry Domestication (Games Redundant)

- Monkey Breeder at Animal Husbandry, also requires Music-> Animal Husbandry redundant.

- Cow Shrine at Animal Husbandry, also requires Polytheism-> Animal Husbandry redundant.

- Angora Rabbit Breeder at Animal Husbandry, also requires Aestetics -> Animal Husbandry redundant.

- Angora Goat Breeder at Animal Husbandry, also requires Aestetics -> Animal Husbandry redundant.

- Wolly Pig Breeder at Animal Husbandry, also requires Aestetics -> Animal Husbandry redundant.

Yes I gave in to fixing the Angora Rabbit Breeder.

 

[Faustmouse]

More fixes ...
Yes I gave in to fixing the Angora Rabbit Breeder.

Cool!
Crossed the fixed ones (also the Graveyard things) off.

 

[Hydromancerx]

- Pyramides at Ceremonial Burial, also needs Sculpture -> Ceremonial Burial is redundant.

- Terracotta Army at Ceremonial Burial, also needs Sculptures [Sculpture] -> Pottery and Ceremonial Burial are redundant.

- Valley of the Kings at Ceremonial Burial, also needs Pyramides[Sculpture] -> Ceremonial Burial is redundant.

Fixed. Fixed. Fixed.

- Town Well at Pottery, also requires Masonry -> Pottery redundant.

- Distillery at Fermentation, also requires Alchemy -> Fermentation redundant.

- Tailor Shop at Tanning, also needs Aesthetics -> Tanning redundant.

- Cobbler at Tanning, also needs Trading Post [Trade] -> Tanning redundant.

- Brick Factory at Masonry, also requires Assembly Line -> Masonry redundant.

All fixed.

 

[Hydromancerx]

- Hammam at Masonry. Also requires Ottman [Mercantilism] -> Masonry and Canal Systems redundant.

- Baray at Masonry. Also requires Canal Systems -> Masonry redundant.

Fixed and fixed.

- Flavian Amphitheater at Slavery, also needs Construction -> Slavery redundant.

- National Courir System at Animal Husbandry, also requires Writing -> Animal Husbandry redundant.

- Statue of Champions at Athletics, also requires Arena [Combat Sports] -> Athletics redundant.

- Piazza San Marco at Code of Laws, also requires Guilds -> Code of Laws redundant.

All fixed.

- King's Tournament at Animal Riding, also requires Tournaments -> Animal Riding is redundant.

Fixed.

- Divine Monument at Ceremonial Burial, also needs "Divine Cult"(Civic) [Mysiticism] -> Ceremonial Burial is redundant. [Use Mysticism as prereq]

- Funeral Pyre at Ceremonial Burial, also needs Graveyard [Masonary] -> Ceremonial Burial is redundant.

- Mystic's Hut at Mysticism. Also requires Prophets (Civic) [Divination] -> Mysticism is redundant.

All fixed.