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[Religion and Revolution]: Mod Development

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Religion and Revolution' started by Robert Surcouf, Sep 5, 2011.

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  1. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    No software is ever 100% free of bugs.
    But it is a big difference if these bugs are really serious and prevent playing or if they are minor.

    Our intention is to ensure a good gaming experience in Single-Player and Multi-Player. :thumbsup:

    Of course, we can simply try our best.

    We will see. ;)
    (It does not really make a lot of sense to speculate about possible bugs of a future release.)
     
  2. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Culture

    1. Culture will replace "Bells" concerning expansion of "Influence Area".

    Culture is a Yield. "Culture Produced per Round" will be displayed in City-Screen and in corresponding Advisor Screen.

    Bells will basically be needed for "Founding Fathers" and "Starting Revolution" only.
    (Statesmen of course have gained other areas of importance.)

    2. Generation of Culture

    A) Statesmen will also generate "Culture", when working in SPECIALBUILDING_BELLS. (Additionally to Bells)

    Elder Statesmen -> 2 Culture per Round
    Other -> 1 Culture per Round

    B) Shopkeepers will also generate "Culture", when working in SPECIALBUILDING_TRADE. (Additionally to selling goods and thus making money.)

    Experienced Shopkeeper -> 2 Culture per Round
    Other -> 1 Culture per Round

    C) There are some Buildings that will also create "Culture" every round.
    (There will be an XML-Setting at the Buildings that defines how much every round.)

    Cathedral, Government Palace, Market, Tavern, Theatre, ...
    (Just examples)

    D) Cities themselves will create "Culture" depending on city size.

    +1 Culture ever 5 Citizens:

    1 Citizen -> 1 Culture
    5 Citizens -> 2 Culture
    10 Citizens -> 3 Culture
    15 Citizens -> 4 Culture
    ...

    3. Cities changing sides

    If "cultural pressure" is very high, and other conditions are met, then there are changes that a city will change sides (become part of the more dominant civ in terms of culture).

    Conditions:

    A) At least 4 cityplots around that city belong to the other nation

    B) Satisfaction of city is lower than total satisfaction of other nation.

    C) There are at least 3 times as many citizens in that city as troops stationed.

    D) There is no war between the two nations.

    E) Only possible between two European Nations.

    F) The nation of the city that considers to change side has at least 3 cities.

    G) There is also a little Random in it.

    Implementation:

    AI to Human:

    The Human Player will get a DLL-Diplo-Event, where AI will inform the Human Player, that the city has decided to switch sides and will ask the Human Player to refuse that demand of the city.

    The Human Player will have 3 Choices:

    A) Refuse City to join -> Relationship to AI will drastically improve, City will never try to join Player again.

    B) Accept City to join but pay for it -> City will change owner and AI will be a little angry
    (All military units of the other civ other civ will be transported to another city of that civ.)

    C) Accept City to join and not pay retribution -> City will change owner, AI will be very angry and might even declare war.
    (All military units of the other civ other civ will be transported to another city of that civ.)

    AI_A to AI_B:

    City will change sides and military units transported to other city.
    Relationships of AI_A towards AI_B will become a little worse.

    Human to AI:

    City will change sides and military units transported to other city.
    Human Player will get message.

    Human A to Human B:

    Basically Human B will get the same DLL-Diplo-Event, as in case "AI to Human".
    (Only that there will be no change in relations or automatic declaration of war.)

    Human B will get message that informs about choice of Human A.
    (He can decide himself how to react.)

    4. Culture will become a factor in calculating Satisfaction

    Actually the rate Culture / size of city will be part of the calculation for Satisfaction.
    Thus some parts of the Satisfaction-concept will change a little.
    (I will modify the concept for Satisfaction, if we decide to do "Culture".)

    5. For Natives everything will basically stay the same

    ------------------------

    Feedback ? :)
     
  3. Robert Surcouf

    Robert Surcouf Civ4Col Modder

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    Great ! I love it. Especially cities producing culture !
    Wonderful!:goodjob:
     
  4. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    :)

    So ok, I will put it on our list "Planned".

    -> We have one more yield "Culture"
    -> I will adjust concept for Satisfaction to include effects of Culture.

    Edit:

    Done.
    Statesmen and Buildings will now influence Satisfaction only indirectly through geration of Culture.
     
  5. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Hi Robert,

    maybe it would be a good idea to talk about Buildings now.
    (Leaving out the Buildings of Natives, because they are not critical.)

    Especially the amount of SpecialBuildings.
    (Categories of Buildings)

    • Every SpecialBuilding does need a free Space in City-Screen. (Especially if it has workers, otherwise Space can be smaller.)
    • Every SpecialBuilding usually has its own icon in Gamefonts.

    So here is a list of the SpecialBuildings and Buildings we currently have:
    In red the ones I want to add in the future.

    From TAC:

    SPECIALBUILDING_BELLS: Basecamp, Villagehall, Townhall, Cityhall, Government Palace
    SPECIALBUILDING_HAMMERS: Carpenter's Shop, Lumber Mill, Wheelwright Workshop, Great Wheelrwright Workshop
    SPECIALBUILDING_COATS: Fur Trader's House, Fur Trading Post, Fur Factory
    SPECIALBUILDING_CLOTH: Weaver's House, Weaver's Shop, Textile Mill
    SPECIALBUILDING_RUM: Distiller's House, Distillery, Rum Factory
    SPECIALBUILDING_CIGARS: Tobacconist's House, Tobacconist Shop, Cigar Factory
    SPECIALBUILDING_WHALE_OIL: Whale Oil House, Large Whale Oil House
    SPECIALBUILDING_TOOLS: Blacksmith's House, Blacksmith's Shop, Ironworks, Tool Factory, Great Tool Factory
    SPECIALBUILDING_CROSSES: Chapel, Church, Cathedral, Great Cathedral
    SPECIALBUILDING_MUSKETS: Armory, Magazine, Arsenal, Great Arsenal,
    SPECIALBUILDING_HORSES: Pasture, Stable, Ranch
    SPECIALBUILDING_DOCK: Landing Stage, Dock, Drydock, Shipyard, Great Shipyard
    SPECIALBUILDING_WAREHOUSE: Warehouse, Warehouse Expansion, Custom House
    SPECIALBUILDING_EDUCATION: Shool House, College, University, Great University
    SPECIALBUILDING_WALLS: Stockade, Fort, Fortress, Stronghold
    SPECIALBUILDING_PRINT: Printing Press, Newspaper, Statue of Governor
    SPECIALBUILDING_DEFENSE: Citadel

    -----------

    17

    The ones I added to it:

    SPECIALBUILDING_SPICE: Spice House, Spice Trading Post
    SPECIALBUILDING_WINE: Wine House, Winery
    SPECIALBUILDING_FURNITURE: Furniture House
    SPECIALBUILDING_CLOTHES: Clothes House, Big Clothes House
    SPECIALBUILDING_MEDICINE: Healer's House, Hospital
    SPECIALBUILDING_TRADE: Market, Trading Center
    SPECIALBUILDING_TRAIN_STATION: Train Station, Central Train Station
    SPECIALBUILDING_BEER: Brewer's House, Brewery
    SPECIALBUILDING_LEATHER: Tanner's House, Tannery
    SPECIALBUILDING_TAVERN: Village Pub, Tavern, Saloon

    -----------

    10

    For our new Features:

    SPECIALBUILDING_CROSSES_PROTESTANT: Chapel, Church, Cathedral, Great Cathedral
    SPECIALBUILDING_CULTURE: Theatre, Opera
    SPECIALBUILDING_INVENTOR: Inventor's House, Inventor's Workshop

    -----------

    3

    In Total:

    30 Specialbuildings / 88 Buildings (If I did not have an error in counting)
    (91 Buildings if you count the special ones for Natives.)

    I am pretty sure, that I could reorganize City-Screen to have these 30 Specialbuildings fit into it. :thumbsup:
    (Once we do the features.)

    Also I would already integrate their Icons into Gamefonts now.

    -------------------------

    Did I forget any Specialbuildings / Buildings ?
    Do you have other ideas for further Specialbuildings / Buildings ?

    (I have been looking into my undiscussed features and currently I don't have any more buildings in mind.)
     
  6. Robert Surcouf

    Robert Surcouf Civ4Col Modder

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    Well that seems good! :p Maybe we could change some names yet.
    "Horse market" why not... But the name seems awkward.
    In my Storm and Light mod, I tried:

    SPECIALBUILDING_HORSES: Pasture, Stable, Ranch

    I like the idea. I was also going to add a Tavern, but I thought this could be good
    SPECIALBUILDING_TAVERN: Tavern, Saloon.

    But now you gave me an idea, we could even try
    SPECIALBUILDING_TAVERN: Village Pub, Tavern, Saloon
    But basically we do seem to agree (again!)

    By the way, I forgot to tell you something. We were talking about "Open European Harbours" - Contract . Even if we don't do that feature first, could each European harbor have a specific name? (In Col94: Sevilla, La Rochelle, London and Amsterdam). That should be easy to implement...
     
  7. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Great. :)
    Next weekend I will start working on the Yields, Gamefonts, Buildings and City-Screen. :thumbsup:
    (I will create a first version that we can use to improve everything later on.)

    Sure. :)
    The names could be changed / improved of course.

    I like both. :goodjob:
    (I will adjust the post above.)

    :lol:

    Very good. :goodjob:
     
  8. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    By the way:

    I think it is time to setup the Subversion-Server.
    I will do that next weekend, too.
    We could have details about that in Privat-Messages. :thumbsup:
     
  9. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    So ok, maybe it is time for another concept. :)

    Trading Companies and Monopolies
    (World Wonder Concept)

    1. What could you build ?

    You can build Trading Companies that will give you a Monopoly.
    (Of course the Trading Companies would have cool names.)

    A Monopoly will
    • raise the current price of the corresponding goods by 2
    • raise the minimum price of the corresponding goods by 2

    1. Furcoats: (very expensive to build, at least 5 Coat Factories in Civ and 5 Specialists Furtraders)

    Goods: Fur, Expensive Fur, Coats, Expensive Coats

    2. Cloth: (very expensive to build, at least 5 Cloth Factories in Civ and 5 Specialist of Clothtraders or Dyers)

    Goods: Cotton, Indigo, Cloth, Coloured Cloth

    3. Cocoa and Coffee: (very expensive to build, at least 5 Specialists "Cocoa and Coffee Trader" in Civ)

    Goods: Cococafruits, Cocoa, Coffeeberries, Coffee

    4. Sugar and Rum: (expensive to build, at least 4 Rum Factories in Civ and 4 Specialist of Rummakers)

    Goods: Sugar, Rum

    5. Tobacco and Cigars: (expensive to build, at least 4 Cigar Factories in Civ and 4 Specialist Cigarmakers)

    Goods: Tobacco, Cigars

    6. Leather: (relatively easy to build, at least 3 Tanneries in Civ and 2 Specialst Tanners)

    Goods: Hides, Leather

    7. Woolclothes: (relatively easy to build, at least 3 Large Woolclothesmakers in Civ and 2 Specialist Woolclothesmakers)

    Goods: Wool, Woolclothes

    8. Spices: (relatively easy to build, at least 3 Spice Trading Posts in Civ and 2 Specialists Spice Traders)

    Goods: Red Pepper, Spices

    9. Beer: (relatively easy to build, at least 3 Breweries Builings in Civ and 2 Specialists Brewers)

    Goods: Barley, Beer

    10. Wine: (relatively easy to build, at least 3 Wineries in Civ and 2 Specialists Winemakers)

    Goods: Grapes, Wine

    11. Precious Minerals: (expensive to build, at least 5 Specialists Silverminer + Goldminer together)

    Goods: Gold, Silver

    12. Gems, Pearls and Walurss-Ebony: (easy to build, at least one Specialist of each)

    Goods: Gems, Perls, Walruss-Ebony

    13. Natural Rubber: (extremely easy to build, only 2 Specialists needed)

    Goods: Natural Rubber

    14. Hemp and Rope: (very expensive to build, at least 4 Specialist Hempplanters and 4 Specialists Ropemakers)

    Goods: Hemp and Rope

    15. Medicine: (relatively easy to build, at least 3 Hospitals and 3 Specialists Healers)

    Goods: Medical Herbs and Medicine

    16. Whale Oil: (very easy to build, at least 3 Whaling Ships)

    Goods: Whale Fat, Whale Oil

    17. Valuable Wood and Furniture: (very easy to build, at least 3 Specialists Furniture Makers)

    Goods: Valuable Wood, Furniture

    18. Salt: (extremely easy to build, only 4 Specialists needed)

    Goods: Salt


    Furthermore there will be other organisations without monopoly (effects on prices) simply giving a bonus:

    19. Lumber-Company (very expensive to build, at least 10 Specialists Lumberjack) -> 10% Bonus Wood Civ

    20. Stonecutters Guild (very expensive to build, at least 10 Specialists Stonecutter) -> 10% Bonus Stone Civ

    21. Mining Company (very expensive to build, at least 10 Specialists Oreminer) -> 10% Bonus Ore Civ

    22. Free Trading Zone (expensive to build, prerequisite: 5 Trading Centers) -> All professions in buildings of that city (not Bells or Crosses or Culture) get 10% Bonus

    23. National Grand Opera (expensive to build, prerequisite: 5 Operas) -> All theatres and operas in Civ get 10% Bonus on Culture

    I would explizitely not do something like that for Tools, Hammers, Weapons and Cannons, because I fell that this would be too powerful and because there already exist very powerful buildings.

    2. Technical:

    1) I will need to implement some DLL-Logic and adjust some XML (Buildings) of course.
    2) Graphically I would keep this very simple:
    The monopolies / organisations / concepts will not get new Building-Graphics. (City Screen or Map.)
    I will simply display a "Star" next to the building that fits best.
    Mouse-Over on that Star will tell what organisation it is and what it does.
    Technically however they will be Buildings / Specialbuildings of course.
    But no special slots in City-Screen needed.

    3. Other Aspects

    1. They are unique and can only exist once a game !
    (If you get it, nobody else can.)

    2. Getting many of these will make other Europeans angry.
    (Because of your economic dominance.)

    3. By capturing the city that build these, they are captured.
    (Effects will be at new owner and gone at old.)

    4. If city is razed / destroyed you destroy them too.
    (The gained effects are lost and any civilization can try to build them again then.)

    4. A city can only build one of these if it does have the highest level of the corresponding building.
    (Technically it is one higher level of the SpecialBuilding)

    5. If one of these is built, all European Players will get a message.

    ------------------

    Feedback ? :)
     
  10. Astat

    Astat Warlord

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    Allright. In case the knowledge got lost, there once was a mod around called "Mortally Dangerous Colonization". I remember it including wild animals, just what was needed to prevent your treasures from roaming around the wilderness unchallenged. The mod file is no longer available though..
     
  11. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Yes, I think it was made by KJ.
    (KJ and I have been talking a lot about Wild Animals and possible implementations.)

    But don't worry, we have all graphics we need and will program our own DLL-Logic. :)

    I have downloaded other mods that did Wild Animals and took a look at the implementations.
    Our implementation will be different though.
    I simply prefer to do our own solution here.
     
  12. Astat

    Astat Warlord

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  13. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    If you really want to have something, then the best way is to simply do it. ;)
    (But yes of course it is much easier if you find others that share your goals ...)
     
  14. Astat

    Astat Warlord

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    But why freak into it if it had been done by other people in the past already? :p
     
  15. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    :lol:

    That is like asking a passionate cook, why he likes cooking his own meals ...
    Or asking a painter, why he paints own motives and does not simply copy others ...

    As I said, I have taken a look in other implementations of "Wild Animals".
    We will do our own solution here, which might even be better.

    Believe me:
    We are absolutely able to implement our own good features. :)
    (We are no beginners in modding CivCol.)

    Let us focus discussions in this thread on working on this project again . :thumbsup:
     
  16. Astat

    Astat Warlord

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    Heh I was rather justifying why I hadn't created my own mod already..

    I did actually try to do some modding in the past, but was unsuccessful: :(
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=335419


    Though I might try and isolate parts of your mods for my own use, like just the weather patterns of the storms and light mod, and leave the complex research system out of my MP games with friends.
     
  17. Robert Surcouf

    Robert Surcouf Civ4Col Modder

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    Both of you are real poets! :goodjob: But I don't see the point to argue... We all agree. Exploring is too easy, we will make it a little more difficult (wild animals, Indian raids, storms etc...)

    I like this idea... For the graphical part, we can start with a simple star indeed. If we want to improve graphical part, maybe we could have a look at Bts Corporation symbols....
     
  18. Astat

    Astat Warlord

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    Well I am glad, but it will be too late for our MP games, which are bound to happen during the next days/weeks. :)

    And I will probably seek to just extract the exploration-danger-parts of the mod, if possible, to keep things simple. My friends never played the game before. :D
     
  19. colonialfan

    colonialfan Warlord

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    Some parts of this feature sound pretty good, but there are other parts that personally I'm not too sure about.:(

    During the colonial period, there were NO monopolies held by colonial based companies. All componies that held monopolies were, formed, owned, funded, and controlled from Europe. The Spanish and Portuguese monarchies and to a slightly lesser degree the French monarchy, held such a tight reign over their colonies trade, that a colonial based and controlled monopoly was all but impossible. Even the Dutch and the English, whose monarchies were far less involved, relied on their Parliaments to oversee monopoloies, created by European based private merchant groups such as Hudson Bay Fur Trading Company, or the East India Company. The colonies primary role was to supply the raw goods, not manufactured goods.

    Creating trading posts on a small scale I think would be fun and keeping within the spirit of the game. However, the creation of complex attributes like colonial monopolies, would I believe take the game away from its original spirit of creating a crude, limited and somewhat backwoods civilization, precariously hacked out of the wilderness, and trying to stand on its own against an overbearing, imperialist mother country. This is just my opinion and please feel free to disagree.

    There were only a handful of theaters in the America's during the colonial period, much less a National Grand Opera house. That came much, much latter.

    Many of the monopolies and the goods associated with them, such as rubber for an example are things that came to prevalance during the 19th century. If the scope of the game carried the player into the 19th century that would be fine, but as I understand, the modders want to concentrate structuring the game around the colonial period and have the game end while still in the 18th century.

    I have nothing against the ideas in principle, but I feel that by adding an element such as this, that allows for rather sophisticated advances in terms of technology and finance, makes the game more akin to civilization set in the new world, rather than the colonization game. If the time scope of the game was broader, and monopolies could only be introduced say after independence, then that would be more historically accurate, or alternatively monopolies could only be established in the game by the European powers and not their colonies.

    I guess I'm a purist in the sense that for me, historical accuracy is really, really important. But again all of this is just my opinion, I'm simply giving some feedback, feel free to agree or disagree.
     
  20. slackerpride

    slackerpride Chieftain

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    Hey, looking forward to giving this MOD a go. This is something I mentioned in 1492 Global MOD thread, but since that looks to be dead (at least for now), I thought I suggest it here and see what sticks. I more or less glanced at the previous 10 pages of discussion, so if any of these ideas have been mentioned or dismissed, sorry for wasting your time. Anyway...

    I've always thought that Slaves should be units purchased at a high cost in a new Africa screen. They'd be units that you could place on a resource outside your sphere of influence - functioning like a small frontier town - that would produce small amounts of said resource. For each slave you have in the "town", the amount you'd collect would increase.

    However, if you have too many slaves, you run the risk of a revolt in the frontier town. In order to help quell that, you have to place a veteran solider or two (or perhaps a new "Overseer" unit) in the town. This doesn't guarantee there wouldn't be a revolt, but it would help. If the slaves do revolt and kill your soldiers, they become their own armed and independent "Indian town" so to speak.

    To get these goods you'd obviously have to send over a wagon train. An automatic option would be nice (also would be nice to set up an auto "trade with Indian villages" option for wagon trains too for that matter). Also, since these frontier towns would be outside your sphere of influence they could be snagged by competing countries.

    When the WOI comes you need to have the option of freeing these frontier towns and possibly gaining a few units for the fight or keeping them and running the risk of revolting frontier towns (perhaps aiding the crown) during the battle of independence.

    Thoughts?
     
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